 19 42 sprokets to Tulsa
|
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 520
Adjunct
|
OP
Adjunct
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 520 |
I put a 19 tooth sproket on friday and rode to Tulsa of a tattoo convetion (270 miles one way) it did pretty good as long as I was doing at least 70 75 mph any slower it was lugging at it's pretty hilly from russleville to OK state line but as long as I kept my speed up it was ok at 70 I was turning 4200 revs
2005 America 145 mains, , #48 pilots, , k&n pod filters, ported intakes manifolds, nology coils and wires, pro com CDI, 62 HP at wheel 68,000 hard miles still runs great gone "traded"
|
|
|
Re: 19 42 sprokets to Tulsa
|
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,937
Loquacious
|
|
Loquacious
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,937 |
I suspect it would be harder on your clutch springs too. Didn't you have slipping problems, or did you already fix that?
And you may see me tonight
With an illegal smile
J. Prine
|
|
|
Re: 19 42 sprokets to Tulsa
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 234
Adjunct
|
|
Adjunct
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 234 |
Something isn't right. With a 42/19 at 70mph you should be just around 3800 RPM. (Calculated). At 4200, you are doing around 90 mph. Did you change to a different size rear tyre? (Stock should be 170/80 15). I am running a 42/19 on an 07 model and seeing around the 3800rpm at 70 mph
With a stock engine (Thunderbike Exhaust) and a 42/19 sprocket set, anything below 3600rpm does tend to lug a bit so you need to downshift in the twisties. With a modified engine it may tend to lug at a higher RPM depending on how the torque curve shifted based on the engine mods.
Adventure before Dementia...
|
|
|
Re: 19 42 sprokets to Tulsa
|
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 127
Adjunct
|
|
Adjunct
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 127 |
Strangely my 42-19 setup is only turning 3500 rpms @ 70mph but it feels ok to me although I will downshift for a steep grade or a QUICK pass
Hot Pipes
|
|
|
Re: 19 42 sprokets to Tulsa
|
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 520
Adjunct
|
|
OP
Adjunct
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 520 |
I didn't have any slipage I was kinda worried about that i brought tools to put my other sprokets back on if needed but I didn't rag on it just cruzed
it may of been 75 that I was running 4200 but it's got the stock rear tire on it
2005 America 145 mains, , #48 pilots, , k&n pod filters, ported intakes manifolds, nology coils and wires, pro com CDI, 62 HP at wheel 68,000 hard miles still runs great gone "traded"
|
|
|
Re: 19 42 sprokets to Tulsa
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,204
Learned Hand
|
|
Learned Hand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,204 |
the 19t front sprocket is just right for cruising. ihad it on my bike for 2 years and never had a clutch slippage problem. when you get to the hills or a tight curve just down shift.......Angelis
1200CC BIG BORE, W/WISECO PISTONS,.250 STROKED CRANK, PORTED/POLISHED HEADS AND LARGER VALVES, CUSTOM WELDED EXHUAST, DUAL 42MM MIKUNI CARBS.
|
|
|
Re: 19 42 sprokets to Tulsa
|
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 520
Adjunct
|
|
OP
Adjunct
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 520 |
Going to put my 17 back on at lunch today i live 15 miles from work and it's all 45mph and 65mph if traffic isn't slow don't plan on doing any more long rides this year I checked it this morning 3900 rpm at 70
2005 America 145 mains, , #48 pilots, , k&n pod filters, ported intakes manifolds, nology coils and wires, pro com CDI, 62 HP at wheel 68,000 hard miles still runs great gone "traded"
|
|
|
Re: 19 42 sprokets to Tulsa
|
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 513
Adjunct
|
|
Adjunct
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 513 |
Been running 19t front sprocket for a couple years now. Absolutly no clutch issue. Over 32kmiles. Increased main jet size to pull hills better with higher gear ratio. Otherwise, just downshift to prevent lugging.
Its more fun to be ridin'! I'm still ridin 
|
|
|
Re: 19 42 sprokets to Tulsa
|
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 83
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 83 |
How does the 19/42 setup work for 2 up riding? I know with me getting above 80 and im starting to rev the engine pretty hard the gears seam really close together to me?
14 America LT Stock
14 America LT 19" EMGO Turnouts AI removed
|
|
|
Re: 19 42 sprokets to Tulsa
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,236 Likes: 63
Fe Butt
|
Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,236 Likes: 63 |
My guess would be that you lose too much power for 2 up.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
|
|
|
Re: 19 42 sprokets to Tulsa
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 11,126 Likes: 13
Should be Riding
|
|
Should be Riding
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 11,126 Likes: 13 |
And the award goes to Jay! For resurrecting a 5 year old thread!   btw a 19 is a bit high for elevation changes. You don't have too much of that around Norfolk though.  If your combined weight of you and your passenger is more than 23 stone, the 18 tooth is more in line with acceptable performance.
Blowing gravel off rural roads
|
|
|
Re: 19 42 sprokets to Tulsa
|
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,290 Likes: 65
Loquacious
|
|
Loquacious
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,290 Likes: 65 |
We've been running 19 tooth for a few years with a baffle and air intake snorkle removed and rejetted for some extra umph, no problem other then a downshift for hills. Moe I hope that between the two of us we never get 23 Stoned I never want to get that high while riding.
|
|
|
Re: 19 42 sprokets to Tulsa
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,695 Likes: 22
Monkey Butt
|
|
Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,695 Likes: 22 |
I will never understand the lugging or power loss with a 19t. That would mean you are shifting too early. The 19t simply makes your gears much taller. Run the RPMS not the speedo. You don't need 5th gear until over 50-55 and you don't really need 5th gear until about 75-80. The bike has the same power as long as you stay in the same power band. And it works fine off of stop signs and red lights.
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
|
|
|
Re: 19 42 sprokets to Tulsa
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,060 Likes: 6
Worn Saddle
|
|
Worn Saddle
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,060 Likes: 6 |
I'm confused about this stone thing. When does a stone become a boulder? And if my wife is 12 boulders, should she knock a few pebbles off or is it wiser not to mention this rocky subject at all? 
Fidelis et Fortis
|
|
|
Re: 19 42 sprokets to Tulsa
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,236 Likes: 63
Fe Butt
|
|
Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,236 Likes: 63 |
Quote:
I will never understand the lugging or power loss with a 19t. That would mean you are shifting too early. The 19t simply makes your gears much taller. Run the RPMS not the speedo. You don't need 5th gear until over 50-55 and you don't really need 5th gear until about 75-80. The bike has the same power as long as you stay in the same power band. And it works fine off of stop signs and red lights.
There is a power loss, no way around it, any time you make the drive (front) sprocket or pulley larger you lose power due to the ratio. That is basic mechanics.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
|
|
|
Re: 19 42 sprokets to Tulsa
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,695 Likes: 22
Monkey Butt
|
|
Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,695 Likes: 22 |
There may be a torque loss low end but my motor has exactly the same power it always had. Once it reaches the rev limiter in 3rd and 4th it is going as fast as a 17t in 5th gear can go.
The only time you lose performance is if your motor cannot spin it up. Our motors can spin up a 19t front sprocket but they cannot hit the limiter in 5th. My GPS read up 94 in 4th and 114 in 5th with my 19t. Some or our 16 and 17t guys are not getting that. But 3700 at 70MPH is real comfortable.
Not being a red light drag racer I will stay with that. A 19t bike likes being mid 3k to 4k RPM range and will roll on from 60 like a thoroughbred.
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
|
|
|
Re: 19 42 sprokets to Tulsa
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,236 Likes: 63
Fe Butt
|
|
Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,236 Likes: 63 |
I'm sorry but you are both right and wrong. While you are right that your engine has the same power it had before it is no longer the same at the rear wheel. There is no way around it, it is a simple fact of engineering.You simply can not gain one without losing the other.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
|
|
|
Re: 19 42 sprokets to Tulsa
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,695 Likes: 22
Monkey Butt
|
|
Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,695 Likes: 22 |
So a dyno on a 17t will show more HP than a dyno on a 19T? I believe the answer to that would be "No".
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
|
|
|
Re: 19 42 sprokets to Tulsa
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,671 Likes: 15
Loquacious
|
|
Loquacious
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,671 Likes: 15 |
Quote:
So a dyno on a 17t will show more HP than a dyno on a 19T? I believe the answer to that would be "No".
I think you've missed Ian's point that a multi-speed transmission multiplies torque, and there is a mechanical difference between a 17T front and a 19T front...just do the math with whatever rear sprocket you want to use to calculate the difference in final drive ratio between the two.
|
|
|
Re: 19 42 sprokets to Tulsa
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,695 Likes: 22
Monkey Butt
|
|
Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,695 Likes: 22 |
Where does that lose power? If I can't get up the hill in 5th but you can I go up in 4th at the same RPMs you are at in 5th and the same speed.
I don't know where I lose power. I lose hole shot with the ratio because it will spin up faster with the lower tooth gear in lower gears. Once the weight is moving and our motors at over 3k my hole shot disadvantage ends and the taller gears take over. 16 or 17t vs. a 19t is like having a 6 gear transmission on the fast end.
The power is not lost its moved from the hole shot to the top end. Now if we had different red lines you would be correct.
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
|
|
|
Re: 19 42 sprokets to Tulsa
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,236 Likes: 63
Fe Butt
|
|
Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,236 Likes: 63 |
The front sprocket is basically a lever and by making it larger you in essence move the fulcrum farther from the load while the handle stays the same. That is the simplest way I can think of to explain it.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
|
|
|
Re: 19 42 sprokets to Tulsa
|
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,720
Check Pants
|
|
Check Pants
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,720 |
Quote:
The front sprocket is basically a lever and by making it larger you in essence move the fulcrum farther from the load while the handle stays the same. That is the simplest way I can think of to explain it.
Great analagy.
|
|
|
Re: 19 42 sprokets to Tulsa
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,695 Likes: 22
Monkey Butt
|
|
Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,695 Likes: 22 |
I agree, it takes more power to get the load moving. Once the advantage is overcome you can lift the load higher. Less advantage to make the lift when the fulcrum is further away, more advantage in height once lifted.
That is where you get tems like "taller gears". But you don't lose power, it takes more to start the lift but if you have it you are not punished later if your goal is height.
Make a fulcrum on your desk with a pen, ruler whatever. Move it away from the load end. The further away from the load the higher it lifts. WOT once in motion the 19t goes faster over the total lift. No loss of power.
If my goal is to reach 75 MPH and be under 4000 RPMs. With a 17t sprocket I can fail to reach that goal a lot faster than a 19t can achieve it. It all depends on where you want you power placed.
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
|
|
|
Re: 19 42 sprokets to Tulsa
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,236 Likes: 63
Fe Butt
|
|
Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,236 Likes: 63 |
Ron, you are still mistaken, while it does take less energy to increase speed over a standing start you have lost mechanical advantage and thus have less power at any point while under power driven from that gear at the rear wheel. You do not magically regain that disadvantage just because you are already moving.
As for the lever if you have the power to lift all the way then yes you can lift higher but it takes more energy through the entire range to do so. This equates to the extra energy required to turn the rear wheel through the entire range.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
|
|
|
Re: 19 42 sprokets to Tulsa
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,236 Likes: 63
Fe Butt
|
|
Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,236 Likes: 63 |
I might add I grew up with 2 engineers in my family, lived with one, my grandfather who taught me quite a bit. It was his machine shop I used as a child and learned most of what I know about mechanics and how machinery works. I still use a lathe similar to his where I have to change the gearing by removing one gear and replacing it with another to get a desired result.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
|
|
|
Re: 19 42 sprokets to Tulsa
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,236 Likes: 63
Fe Butt
|
|
Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,236 Likes: 63 |
I thought about this and figured I would say that if you wish to delude yourself go ahead, I won't argue it farther since I have already reduced it to simplest possible terms.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
|
|
|
Re: 19 42 sprokets to Tulsa
|
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,720
Check Pants
|
|
Check Pants
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,720 |
Quote:
I might add I grew up with 2 engineers in my family, lived with one, my grandfather who taught me quite a bit. It was his machine shop I used as a child and learned most of what I know about mechanics and how machinery works. I still use a lathe similar to his where I have to change the gearing by removing one gear and replacing it with another to get a desired result.
Sounds like my lathe, a 1939 South Bend Model C. 
|
|
|
Re: 19 42 sprokets to Tulsa
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,236 Likes: 63
Fe Butt
|
|
Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,236 Likes: 63 |
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
|
|
|
Re: 19 42 sprokets to Tulsa
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,695 Likes: 22
Monkey Butt
|
|
Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,695 Likes: 22 |
Quote:
I thought about this and figured I would say that if you wish to delude yourself go ahead, I won't argue it farther since I have already reduced it to simplest possible terms.
I agree. If you have a 2.6 gear ratio on a 16t front gear and a 2.2 ratio on a 19t front gear.
The 19t requires 15% less RPM to spin the wheel 1 time. and a set RPM will spin the wheel 15% faster than the smaller gear.
The work done vs. the distance traveled equals power. You decrease your smaller gear on your lathe to slow it down.
I will remain delusional. 
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
|
|
|
Re: 19 42 sprokets to Tulsa
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,236 Likes: 63
Fe Butt
|
|
Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,236 Likes: 63 |
You are talking RPM not power and yes the larger front lowers RPM at any given speed in any given gear but the power loss remains.It requires more energy to spin the wheel that 1 time with the larger front sprocket due to the loss in leverage thus your power loss. I don't know why I even went on as no matter how you paint it you are still incorrect.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
|
|
|
Re: 19 42 sprokets to Tulsa
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,236 Likes: 63
Fe Butt
|
|
Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,236 Likes: 63 |
As for my lathe I was speaking of the back gears that control the worm that moves the carriage, I have to move belts to change chuck speed, same as on the bike rear drive the faster I spin the chuck the less TQ I have at the tool, the slower I spin the chuck the more TQ I have, the chuck represents the rear wheel so I make the drive pulley bigger in relation to the pulley on the shaft the chuck is mounted to the faster it goes but less TQ I have at the chuck.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
|
|
|
Re: 19 42 sprokets to Tulsa
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,695 Likes: 22
Monkey Butt
|
|
Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,695 Likes: 22 |
Quote:
You are talking RPM not power and yes the larger front lowers RPM at any given speed in any given gear but the power loss remains.It requires more energy to spin the wheel that 1 time with the larger front sprocket due to the loss in leverage thus your power loss. I don't know why I even went on as no matter how you paint it you are still incorrect.
Yes it does take more energy to get the wheel to move from 0 or resistance. How much energy is spent at 70 MPH with the 19t vs. the 16t. This is where you get confused. Spinning a shaft at 4300 RPMs takes a bunch more power then spinning it at 3700 RPMs. It is very simply the guiding principles of overdrive. (gearing up)
Hundreds of times on this forum folks talking about reaching for 6th gear.
Its just math, but we will never agree. You don't lose power its always there. The amount of work needed for the distance traveled changes with gearing. Once in 4th gear, maybe 3rd, I will always dyno with more power. A dyno only using 1st gear, maybe 2nd you would show more power.
The only time it changes is if the constant, the HP of the motor, cannot spin it up, or is spinning so fast it can't speed the bike up. Overgeared or undergeared. The 16t and the 19t are well within the bikes ability. Well my 790 anyway as it has more HP to spin a 19t. I don't know about the 865s.
Over an out.
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
|
|
|
Re: 19 42 sprokets to Tulsa
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,236 Likes: 63
Fe Butt
|
|
Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,236 Likes: 63 |
I am not at all confused, you lose power at the rear wheel comparatively. For such a smart guy it baffles me how you can't grasp this simple concept of gearing. I'm finished here, like beating a dead horse.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
|
|
|
Re: 19 42 sprokets to Tulsa
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,695 Likes: 22
Monkey Butt
|
|
Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,695 Likes: 22 |
You don't understand power and now you have called me a deceased horse. 
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
|
|
|
Re: 19 42 sprokets to Tulsa
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,671 Likes: 15
Loquacious
|
|
Loquacious
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,671 Likes: 15 |
Quote:
You don't understand power...
I'm glad that you do. Please explain how a DJ (inertia) dyno calculates power, and how that differs from what actually happens on the road.
|
|
|
|
|
