 Chain Issue
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,537
Check Pants
|
OP
Check Pants
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,537 |
I put on an RK Chain at the end of last year and both of their sprockets. Since than, I've put on just over 9K on the chain set. In the past month, I've had to tighten the chain twice. On the last time, I haven't even gone 200 miles and it's loose to about 1" slack. Could there be something wrong with the chain? At the start of this season, I was surprised to find the chain pretty rusty just after winter. Keep in mind, the bike is kept in an insulated garage and wasn't ridden in the wet over that winter. I took the rust off with some steel wool and it hasn't returned. My OEM chain went 25k with about 4-5 adjustments over it's life (in addition to loosening for tire changes, etc.) I thought RK was a good chain brand, but with not even 10k on the set, that is disappointing.
I am torquing the rear axle to the correct ft-lbs and measuring the equal distance with a dial caliper.
Any suggestions or can anything else be causing the chain to get loose like that?
Al
|
|
|
Re: Chain Issue
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
|
|
Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821 |
Dunno what could be causing it.
I put an RK on at 21,000. I'm at 38,000 now and it's doing fine.
They do need some adjusting fairly often until they set in, and then still need some, but not as often.
Do you have any tight spots?
Put it on a jack if you can, and rotate it slowly while checking the tension.
Might be normal, inspect it link by link if you have to.
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
|
|
|
Re: Chain Issue
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,172
Saddle Sore
|
|
Saddle Sore
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,172 |
Some Mr. Obvious questions.... Is it an O-ring/X-ring chain? Or is it an old style chain without seals? They still sell those for racing, I believe. Not saying you ordered the wrong chain, but they might have shipped you the wrong chain - stuff happens. Might be a defective chain - not lubed at the factory. Regardless, I'd get all my info together and call whoever you bought it from and see if they'll stand behind it. Check the sprockets too. And let me know if you need my chain breaker again.... 
More flags
More fun!
|
|
|
Re: Chain Issue
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,537
Check Pants
|
|
OP
Check Pants
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,537 |
Here's the chain/sprocket info: RK Chain - 525XSO (112 link), Titan Tough Rear Sprocket 42 tooth, 18t front sprocket I'll give the vendor a shout and see what he thinks. Quote:
Some Mr. Obvious questions....
Is it an O-ring/X-ring chain? Or is it an old style chain without seals? They still sell those for racing, I believe.
Not saying you ordered the wrong chain, but they might have shipped you the wrong chain - stuff happens.
Might be a defective chain - not lubed at the factory. Regardless, I'd get all my info together and call whoever you bought it from and see if they'll stand behind it. Check the sprockets too.
And let me know if you need my chain breaker again....
Al
|
|
|
Re: Chain Issue
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,537
Check Pants
|
|
OP
Check Pants
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,537 |
I called RK after getting the number from the vendor and spoke to a tech their who wanted to confirm I had the right chain. I left him a message, but never rec'd a return call.
In the meantime, I carefully adjusted the chain again and made sure there were no tight spots. The weather cooperated and I was able to get in close to 300 miles this week. The chain length hasn't changed. Maybe I had a tight spot earlier, but didn't realize it. I'll keep a closer eye on it next year.
Al
|
|
|
Re: Chain Issue
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,537
Check Pants
|
|
OP
Check Pants
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,537 |
Folks:
I continue to have problems with my RK Chain. I tighten the chain to 25 mm and it is fine until just about 400 miles, than it goes way loose (1.5" or so).
I was able to speak to the RK Warranty guy this afternoon. He suggested that perhaps the RK chain doesn't like it as tight as the factory chain (DID?). I have been adjusting to 25 mm, he suggested I go the high side of the spec, to 30 mm and see if that shows any improvement. He said if I continue to have issues, he'll take the chain back under their 20k limited warranty.
I'm wondering to what spec you RK chain users put your chains. I'm of mind loose is better than tight, but at 1.5" of travel, I get some slap and acceleration isn't smooth.
If you RK users can check back in, I'd appreciate your experiences.
Al
|
|
|
Re: Chain Issue
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,236 Likes: 63
Fe Butt
|
Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,236 Likes: 63 |
I adjust mine to about 1" of play but it isn't an RK.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
|
|
|
Re: Chain Issue
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,152
Oil Expert
|
|
Oil Expert
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,152 |
couldn't be the axle moving could it?
How much have you had to move the adjusters back by now?
|
|
|
Re: Chain Issue
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,537
Check Pants
|
|
OP
Check Pants
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,537 |
Well, I'm torquing the axle nuts to spec. But that is the weird thing. It gets about 1.5" of play, I move it back to the original chain mark, just past the first mark. So I have plenty of adjustment left. Here's a shot of the adjuster ramp, the chain is currently adjusted to 1" of slack.  Quote:
couldn't be the axle moving could it?
How much have you had to move the adjusters back by now?
Al
|
|
|
Re: Chain Issue
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,063 Likes: 8
Loquacious
|
|
Loquacious
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,063 Likes: 8 |
Think I'll stick with the stock steel sprockets and chain. Appears they last the longest. These Chains & Sprockets seem to be reasonably priced.
12 Rocket Roadster
03 Bonneville America
69 BSA Firebird Scrambler
73 Yamaha TX 750
|
|
|
Re: Chain Issue
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,152
Oil Expert
|
|
Oil Expert
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,152 |
Quote:
Well, I'm torquing the axle nuts to spec. But that is the weird thing. It gets about 1.5" of play, I move it back to the original chain mark, just past the first mark. So I have plenty of adjustment left. Here's a shot of the adjuster ramp, the chain is currently adjusted to 1" of slack.
Ah, so maybe the axle IS moving forward and you're moving it back with the adjusters. What's the torque spec and is there any sort of locking washer?
|
|
|
Re: Chain Issue
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,537
Check Pants
|
|
OP
Check Pants
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,537 |
Spec is 62.6 ft-lbs (85 Nm). I set my wrench to 65 Ft-Lbs. Quote:
Quote:
Well, I'm torquing the axle nuts to spec. But that is the weird thing. It gets about 1.5" of play, I move it back to the original chain mark, just past the first mark. So I have plenty of adjustment left. Here's a shot of the adjuster ramp, the chain is currently adjusted to 1" of slack.
Ah, so maybe the axle IS moving forward and you're moving it back with the adjusters. What's the torque spec and is there any sort of locking washer?
Al
|
|
|
Re: Chain Issue
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
|
|
Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821 |
I adjust my RK to about 1" of slack. I just eyeball it. 65 ft.lbs is where I set my torque also.
Make a mark on the adjuster/swingarm to see if the axle is moving, both sides.
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
|
|
|
Re: Chain Issue
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,236 Likes: 63
Fe Butt
|
|
Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,236 Likes: 63 |
Quote:
Think I'll stick with the stock steel sprockets and chain. Appears they last the longest. These Chains & Sprockets seem to be reasonably priced.
I decided to do the same thing for the same reason.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
|
|
|
Re: Chain Issue
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,537
Check Pants
|
|
OP
Check Pants
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,537 |
I've been mic'ing it and the axle doesn't appear to be moving. Quote:
I adjust my RK to about 1" of slack. I just eyeball it. 65 ft.lbs is where I set my torque also.
Make a mark on the adjuster/swingarm to see if the axle is moving, both sides.
Al
|
|
|
Re: Chain Issue
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 11,126 Likes: 13
Should be Riding
|
|
Should be Riding
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 11,126 Likes: 13 |
You are missing a washer between the adjuster bracket and the nut. Or at least it sure looks that way. If the washer is missing, then in essence the nut is bottoming out on the threads, reaching torque but not binding against the swingarm.
Blowing gravel off rural roads
|
|
|
Re: Chain Issue
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,537
Check Pants
|
|
OP
Check Pants
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,537 |
Moe: Thanks - the book sure does show a separate washer under that nut(Section 14, Page 5). I looked back thru some old pix and apparently it's never been there! I'll get one this afternoon. That sure makes sense as to explaining the problem I'm having. Update: Weird, Bike Bandit doesn't show a washer on their schematic: http://www.bikebandit.com/2002-triumph-motorcycle-america-rear-wheel-final-drive/o/m17595sch565399Anyone have their bike close by to eyeball? I'll shoot over to my dealer at lunch for sure. Quote:
You are missing a washer between the adjuster bracket and the nut. Or at least it sure looks that way. If the washer is missing, then in essence the nut is bottoming out on the threads, reaching torque but not binding against the swingarm.
Last edited by ssjones; 11/10/2009 11:48 AM.
Al
|
|
|
Re: Chain Issue
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 11,126 Likes: 13
Should be Riding
|
|
Should be Riding
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 11,126 Likes: 13 |
A long shot, but check to see if the washer is on the left side. It shouldn't be. If it is use it on the right side. And check to see if it is between the spacer and the adjuster on the right hand side too. The washer is a thick one. Almost as thick as a brick... er, jethro tull notwithstanding, as thick as the nut's flange. 
Blowing gravel off rural roads
|
|
|
Re: Chain Issue
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 11,126 Likes: 13
Should be Riding
|
|
Should be Riding
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 11,126 Likes: 13 |
Quote:
...Update: Weird, Bike Bandit doesn't show a washer on their schematic:
http://www.bikebandit.com/2002-triumph-motorcycle-america-rear-wheel-final-drive/o/m17595sch565399
Anyone have their bike close by to eyeball? I'll shoot over to my dealer at lunch for sure.
Strange indeed the above verbage from Haynes. Both Cinnamon Girl and Vera Lynn have washers.
Blowing gravel off rural roads
|
|
|
Re: Chain Issue
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 11,126 Likes: 13
Should be Riding
|
|
Should be Riding
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 11,126 Likes: 13 |
cell phone camera-    brick wall reflected lighting...
Blowing gravel off rural roads
|
|
|
Re: Chain Issue
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,537
Check Pants
|
|
OP
Check Pants
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,537 |
Al
|
|
|
Re: Chain Issue
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 11,126 Likes: 13
Should be Riding
|
|
Should be Riding
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 11,126 Likes: 13 |
Who last pulled the axle?
Blowing gravel off rural roads
|
|
|
Re: Chain Issue
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,537
Check Pants
|
|
OP
Check Pants
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,537 |
Quote:
Who last pulled the axle?
Only me, but looking thru some very old pictures, I don't think it was ever in place. (Unless I moved it to the other side of the axle...mmmmm?)
Al
|
|
|
Re: Chain Issue
|
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,937
Loquacious
|
|
Loquacious
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,937 |
I recently (20 miles ago) adjusted my axle/wheel alignment, and torqued to just over 85 Nm. It just doesn't seem like thats tight enough! I'd surely go tighter if just going by "feel", but who can argue with "The Book"?  BUT, if that sucker moves, it'll be back to Erles way!
And you may see me tonight
With an illegal smile
J. Prine
|
|
|
Re: Chain Issue
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,236 Likes: 63
Fe Butt
|
|
Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,236 Likes: 63 |
On a side note if the washer was on the wrong side the nut still wouldn't bottom out on the threads since the length between the mating surfaces would be the same with the washer on either side.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
|
|
|
Re: Chain Issue
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,537
Check Pants
|
|
OP
Check Pants
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,537 |
Ok, Fredericktowne Triumph says there is no washer for the axle (Bike Bandits microfiche also showed none). Indeed, all of the America/Speedy's and one customer America in the shop also had no washer. There's no Triumph part number for one, that's for sure.
The parts guy wasn't surprised and says Triumph does odd things like that between bike years.
He says no way it's my axle coming loose. He blamed the RK chain. Neither him or the shop guy like the RK brand, they use DID only.
I guess I'll monitor and send it back to RK if necessary.
Al
|
|
|
Re: Chain Issue
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,152
Oil Expert
|
|
Oil Expert
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,152 |
Quote:
Well, I'm torquing the axle nuts to spec. But that is the weird thing. It gets about 1.5" of play, I move it back to the original chain mark, just past the first mark. So I have plenty of adjustment left. Here's a shot of the adjuster ramp, the chain is currently adjusted to 1" of slack.
Sorry, I guess I just misunderstood.
|
|
|
Re: Chain Issue
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 234
Adjunct
|
|
Adjunct
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 234 |
Quote:
I am torquing the rear axle to the correct ft-lbs and measuring the equal distance with a dial caliper.
1) Have you checked the distance with the dial caliper prior to adjusting to see if the axle has in fact moved.
2) The book I have shows no washer for the America/Speedmaster but shows one for the T100, Truxton and Scrambler. My 07 does not have a washer.
3) The last step of the chain tightening sequence states "Rotate the aduster bolts anti-clockwise until their shoulders are in firm contact with the adjusters." I believe this should stop forward movement of the axle even if the axle tried to move forward.
Let us know what you come up with.
Adventure before Dementia...
|
|
|
Re: Chain Issue
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,537
Check Pants
|
|
OP
Check Pants
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,537 |
Yes, I left the mic locked in the measurement position. I do take up an slack with the adjusters, that makes sense. My electronic copy of the manual (which I referenced yesterday) is for the 2005 models. The picture I referenced was for everything but the America. They don't show a washer on the America. Page 14-23 describes fitting "the washer and spindle nut" on an America/Speedy rear wheel. Oh those nutty Brit's. Quote:
Quote:
I am torquing the rear axle to the correct ft-lbs and measuring the equal distance with a dial caliper.
1) Have you checked the distance with the dial caliper prior to adjusting to see if the axle has in fact moved.
2) The book I have shows no washer for the America/Speedmaster but shows one for the T100, Truxton and Scrambler. My 07 does not have a washer.
3) The last step of the chain tightening sequence states "Rotate the aduster bolts anti-clockwise until their shoulders are in firm contact with the adjusters." I believe this should stop forward movement of the axle even if the axle tried to move forward.
Let us know what you come up with.
Al
|
|
|
Re: Chain Issue
|
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 473
Adjunct
|
|
Adjunct
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 473 |
I know this is an older thread, but just had a chance to check our '07 Speedmaster. The bike is new, and has no washer behind the axle nut.
H.
2010 Speedmaster Black/New England White
|
|
|
Re: Chain Issue
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,537
Check Pants
|
|
OP
Check Pants
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,537 |
Thanks, I'll chalk it up as to just another quirk in the shop manual.... Quote:
I know this is an older thread, but just had a chance to check our '07 Speedmaster. The bike is new, and has no washer behind the axle nut.
H.
Al
|
|
|
|
|
