 Re: Disconnect TPS
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well it maybe just my imagination but i unplugged mine today and only did a 12 mile run back home but bike seemed smoother might be in my head because having unplugged i expect a difference, but when i am at low revs in almost anygear and then accelerate it is normally a bit lumpy almost as tho i am in wrong gear but i didnt get it once comeing home and i was trying just seemed a far smoother ride
Tone
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Re: Disconnect TPS
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,416
Oil Expert
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Oil Expert
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Last edited by piper; 08/15/2009 7:27 AM.
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Re: Disconnect TPS
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,671 Likes: 15
Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Scottdog is correct, default dynoruns are basically WOT, especially with CV carbs, unless the dyno operator specifically tests for other combinations/conditions (say, a/f @ cruise or idle). It therefore should come as no surprise that back to back dyno runs on the same machine in the same conditions would show similar results with & without TPS connected.
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Re: Disconnect TPS
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 73
Member
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Member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 73 |
I disconnested my this weekend, see no reason to ever hook it back up. Now what else can I rip out of the wireing on this thing 
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Re: Disconnect TPS
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,416
Oil Expert
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Oil Expert
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Found this regarding popping on "the other site" written by Pieman. Can't say I fully understand everything, but surely someone does? Quote:
Our Bonnies with the carbs setup correctly and with anything other than the restrictive OEM silencers will tend to snap, crackle and pop on the overrun to varying degrees, mainly between 3,000rpm and 2,000rpm. The AFR in this rev region starts at around 17.5:1, goes down to 14.5:1 and then by 2,000rpm is back up to 16.5:1
If you want to reduce the overrun snap, crackle and pop to virtually nothing, set your pilot screws to the correct setting and then remove the ACV spring from the left side of the left carb and cut off exactly three turns. Put it back together with the cut end away from the rubber diaphragm and go for a ride, no more snap crackle and pop.
This mod doesn't effect the carb setup in any other way than by reducing overrun noise. Enjoy.
Sounds interesting (I think), but I do need an explanation... 
"Wise men speak because they have something to say, fools because they have to say something."
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Re: Disconnect TPS
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Here is a link to a source that seams to shed some light on the ACV function - www.thumperfaq.com/acv.htmHasse Even better is this link to the Keihin CVK mysteries where 'ACV' is named 'Coasting Enricher' - www.gadgetjq.com/keihin_carb.htmSecond edit: This issue with the 'ACV' is also discussed in the BA thread 'I really need help on this one!! Carb issue?'!
Last edited by Hasse; 08/18/2009 9:35 AM.
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Air Cut Valve Spring
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,416
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Thanks! OK, so now I'm a little smarter and really think I understand it. However, cutting a spring is quite err... definite. Could be hard to find a new one if needed. It sounds great though, to be able to fatten up the mixture when decelerating and only then. Would make reconnecting the TPS possible and still get rid of the pop and crackle... 
"Wise men speak because they have something to say, fools because they have to say something."
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Re: Air Cut Valve Spring
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964
Stickman Yogi
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OP
Stickman Yogi
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964 |
Quote:
i just happened to come across this TPS eliminator kit figured I'd post it
http://www.shop.lcfabrications.com/product.sc?productId=19&categoryId=4
Ahhh yes, for all us TPS-be-gone folk that would clean up the right carb nicely.
Live to love, love to live.
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Re: Air Cut Valve Spring
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 410
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Joined: Jul 2007
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Quote:
However, cutting a spring is quite err... definite. Could be hard to find a new one if needed.
Hi, After spending 3 weeks messing with carbs and mainly the Air Cut Off Valve I feel somewhat enlightened on it.
This is ONLY my opinion and I dont mean to tread on peoples toes but:::: cutting the spring is NOT the way to go.
The design on the air valve is rather clever... should you take it apart you will see at the rear of the diaphragm is a small piston shaped rod, under normal running, tickover, cruising and accelerating the spring holds the piston to the back of a recess allowing unrestricted air into the carbs via a small drilling.
Once the throttle is closed there is a vacum in the air valve and the small piston is sucked towards the outside of the recess closing the 2 air holes making the mixture richer.
If you were to cut that spring lessening the tension the vacum would actually pull the piston out covering the holes at idle and richen the mixture considerably, on over run (high vacum) the piston would be pulled PAST the holes so defeating the object. The spring is a designed length to allow the movement to work but it also acts as a stopper when fully compressed to stop the piston moving out the opening too far.
To disable the valve is a simple matter of undoing the 2 screws and place a small bit of a plastic bag OVER the O ring to stop the vacum. Cheap and reversable.
Hope that might help someone.. I spent ages playing with it, springs, tape, vacum gauges so I have a very good understanding of how it works.
TrOjAn
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Re: Air Cut Valve Spring
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Will disconnecting the TPS cause any damage?
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Re: Air Cut Valve Spring
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,172
Saddle Sore
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Saddle Sore
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,172 |
Hope not.
I finally unplugged mine, or should say had my son do it. I couldn't begin to get enough fingers in place to pull the plug apart...
Went for a short ride today and the throttle response feels better and the engine feels smoother. Didin't check the popping thing, but I had that pretty well dialed out already.
More flags
More fun!
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Re: Disconnect TPS (malarchy)
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,616
Check Pants
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Check Pants
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,616 |
OK...so I disconnected my TPS a few days ago to see what all the hoopla was about. Here is my experience.... BEFORE: Freak (K&N pods for those that want to split hairs), Specialty Spares long cannons, 150 main, 45 pilot, dont remember the turns out. The bike ran just fine. No issues at all. Smooth throttle response off the line. Plenty of power for what it is. No major popping on decel, rather a nice low burble as the rpms came down No backfires etc... So why did I do it you ask...cause theres always something else to try to make things better and so many people liked what it did for them. Oh...and I love to tinker  AFTER: No change in setup other than re-connecting the TPS. Off the line throttle response was bad. The bike wanted to die first before it would take off. I noticed a backfire usually in situations where the RPMs were high (over 4000) and I needed to pull the clutch for a quick stop. Not a loud backfire but I could hear and feel it. Didnt notice a change in popping on decel. Didnt notice any increase or decrease in power. Oh well...I guess I can not report positive results with this one. I guess my bike is just set up right 
SOLD: 07 Black BA, 39mm FCRs, TPUSA stage 1 head, TPUSA 813 cams, TPUSA 10.8:1 pistons, TTP #3 igniter, Specialty Spares Long Cannons, Tsukayu Hard Bags. 82HP/55tq
NEW: 19 Goldwing Tour DCT
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Re: Disconnect TPS (malarchy)
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964
Stickman Yogi
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OP
Stickman Yogi
Joined: Mar 2009
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Kinda interesting... like everything there is no said and fast rule. Too many variables and life's too short to figure it all out. But I'd love to 1/4 mile against you and yours just to introduce another variable. Nah.... just kidding. Just that since I disconnected the TPS on mine is seems to go like snot compared to before. Could be my imagination... but no ill effect for sure. Go figure, eh?
Live to love, love to live.
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Re: Disconnect TPS (malarchy)
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,616
Check Pants
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Check Pants
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,616 |
Keith...Ill drag with ya...as soon as you make it down here  I thought it was interesting that I didnt get a positive result but like you said, variables and lots of em.
SOLD: 07 Black BA, 39mm FCRs, TPUSA stage 1 head, TPUSA 813 cams, TPUSA 10.8:1 pistons, TTP #3 igniter, Specialty Spares Long Cannons, Tsukayu Hard Bags. 82HP/55tq
NEW: 19 Goldwing Tour DCT
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Re: Disconnect TPS
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,172
Saddle Sore
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Saddle Sore
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,172 |
Don't tell PETA, but I thought I'd give this horse a few more kicks....
After disconnecting the TPS and getting a few good miles in, I have this to report:
The bike runs smoother. The throttle is more responsive. My gas mileage hasn't changed - still average about 45 per. And, the most impressive result, when I hit the limiter, it no longer dies for several seconds - it just burbles a bit to let me know it's time to shift or back off.
The only downside so far - I work nights - leaving at midnight - and I used to have to pull the choke out 1/4 to 1/2 to start the bike. Now (and it's been in the high 40's low 50's) I have to pull the choke out all the way or it doesn't want to start. Once started, I push the choke in about 1/2 and give it a minute or two, and it runs fine.
For those who hyper-analyze these things:
03 America 790cc.
Thunderbike silencers.
45 pilots, 130 mains. Slides drilled to 7/32.
Stock airbox with snorkels removed, K&N filter, with screened bellmouth fitted.
Vacuum balancer hose fitted between intake manifolds.
Knurled thumbscrew pilot screws set at 3 1/2 turns.
Nology coils and high performance wires.
89 octane gasoline.
It seems to work well for me.
More flags
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Re: Disconnect TPS
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,416
Oil Expert
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Oil Expert
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Great! I don't think I'll go back. 
"Wise men speak because they have something to say, fools because they have to say something."
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Re: Disconnect TPS
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,172 Likes: 15
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,172 Likes: 15 |
Quote:
Slides drilled to 7/32.
It seems to work well for me.
did you really drill your slides out to 7/32? that is .219 inch. It works okay?
the usual drill out is to .118 inch. approx 3MM up form the 2.5 mm stock.
05 speedmaster - 1100cc, 11:1 racing pistons, Carillo rods, thunderbike cams, ported and polished head, 2mm over intake and exhaust valves, Barnett kevlar clutch, scepter pipes, oversize manifolds, 45mm HSR's, TTP stage 4 firestarter
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Re: Disconnect TPS
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,722 Likes: 5
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,722 Likes: 5 |
I'm pretty sure 7/32" is what I did to mine as well
Always remember to be yourself. Unless you suck. Then pretend to be someone else.
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Re: Disconnect TPS
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 122
Adjunct
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Adjunct
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I think my drill bit was 7/64.......
Hasse TBA -02 Pre-Fire Cardinal Red, Wiseco 904, Thunderbike pipes, Freak
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Re: Disconnect TPS
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,382
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,382 |
Yep. 7/64 " Here's the link Click Here
Tony G
'03 America
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Re: Disconnect TPS
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,722 Likes: 5
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,722 Likes: 5 |
that's right, it's been years since I did it, hard to remember small details like that
Always remember to be yourself. Unless you suck. Then pretend to be someone else.
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Re: Disconnect TPS
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,382
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,382 |
Quote:
that's right, it's been years since I did it, hard to remember small details like that
Dave, they say that the first thing to go is your memory.
I can't remember the second thing.
Tony G
'03 America
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Re: Disconnect TPS
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,172 Likes: 15
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,172 Likes: 15 |
7/64 = .109 inch, that sounds way more likely. and you could still go bigger yet. I have mine at .120 inch.
back to the original topic - My TPS is off the carb and unplugged from the harness. It seems to idle better than it did before, especially when cold. No down side to removing it that I can see (so far).
05 speedmaster - 1100cc, 11:1 racing pistons, Carillo rods, thunderbike cams, ported and polished head, 2mm over intake and exhaust valves, Barnett kevlar clutch, scepter pipes, oversize manifolds, 45mm HSR's, TTP stage 4 firestarter
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Re: Disconnect TPS
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,172
Saddle Sore
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Saddle Sore
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,172 |
It was 7/something... and it was a loong time ago. What's a few .000's among friends??
Sorry.
More flags
More fun!
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Re: Disconnect TPS
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,722 Likes: 5
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,722 Likes: 5 |
Quote:
Quote:
that's right, it's been years since I did it, hard to remember small details like that
Dave, they say that the first thing to go is your memory.
I can't remember the second thing.
then I'm in bad shape, because I'm only 31
Always remember to be yourself. Unless you suck. Then pretend to be someone else.
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Re: Disconnect TPS
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 410
Adjunct
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Adjunct
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Im due a dyno run soon... should I do it with the TPS connected or disconnected?
Decisions decisions
TrOjAn
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Re: Disconnect TPS
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,048
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,048 |
Quote:
Im due a dyno run soon... should I do it with the TPS connected or disconnected?
Decisions decisions
yes you should. 
01010100 01110010 01101001 01110101 01101101 01110000 01101000 <3
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Re: Disconnect TPS
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,172 Likes: 15
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,172 Likes: 15 |
Quote:
Im due a dyno run soon... should I do it with the TPS connected or disconnected?
Decisions decisions
do one of each. it only takes a minute or so to unplug the TPS. Then you will have a straight up answer. Just tell the dyno guy what you want to do before he starts.
should be interesting.
05 speedmaster - 1100cc, 11:1 racing pistons, Carillo rods, thunderbike cams, ported and polished head, 2mm over intake and exhaust valves, Barnett kevlar clutch, scepter pipes, oversize manifolds, 45mm HSR's, TTP stage 4 firestarter
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Re: Disconnect TPS
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964
Stickman Yogi
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OP
Stickman Yogi
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964 |
Quote:
Quote:
Im due a dyno run soon... should I do it with the TPS connected or disconnected?
Decisions decisions
do one of each. it only takes a minute or so to unplug the TPS. Then you will have a straight up answer. Just tell the dyno guy what you want to do before he starts.
should be interesting.
Took me a lot longer than a minute to unplug that puppy. It's a hard place to get yer hand into.
Live to love, love to live.
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Re: Disconnect TPS
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,616
Check Pants
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Check Pants
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,616 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Im due a dyno run soon... should I do it with the TPS connected or disconnected?
Decisions decisions
do one of each. it only takes a minute or so to unplug the TPS. Then you will have a straight up answer. Just tell the dyno guy what you want to do before he starts.
should be interesting.
Took me a lot longer than a minute to unplug that puppy. It's a hard place to get yer hand into.
that cause your old and stoned 
SOLD: 07 Black BA, 39mm FCRs, TPUSA stage 1 head, TPUSA 813 cams, TPUSA 10.8:1 pistons, TTP #3 igniter, Specialty Spares Long Cannons, Tsukayu Hard Bags. 82HP/55tq
NEW: 19 Goldwing Tour DCT
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Re: Disconnect TPS
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964
Stickman Yogi
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OP
Stickman Yogi
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964 |
Live to love, love to live.
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Re: Disconnect TPS
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,099
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,099 |
Hey, I resemble that remark!  From what ScottDog explained in another post: Or, my take on it: When you do a dyno run, the throttle is wide open. So the spark is at full advance. If you disconnect the tps, it goes to full advance (default). Same thing, right?
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Re: Disconnect TPS
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,671 Likes: 15
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,671 Likes: 15 |
Quote:
...When you do a dyno run, the throttle is wide open.
So the spark is at full advance. If you disconnect the tps, it goes to full advance (default).
Same thing, right?
Basically, yes.
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Re: Disconnect TPS
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,616
Check Pants
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Check Pants
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,616 |
Quote:
I ain't laughing.
I am
SOLD: 07 Black BA, 39mm FCRs, TPUSA stage 1 head, TPUSA 813 cams, TPUSA 10.8:1 pistons, TTP #3 igniter, Specialty Spares Long Cannons, Tsukayu Hard Bags. 82HP/55tq
NEW: 19 Goldwing Tour DCT
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Re: Disconnect TPS (malarchy)
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,525
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,525 |
Quote:
OK...so I disconnected my TPS a few days ago to see what all the hoopla was about. Here is my experience....
BEFORE:
Freak (K&N pods for those that want to split hairs), Specialty Spares long cannons, 150 main, 45 pilot, dont remember the turns out.
The bike ran just fine. No issues at all.
Smooth throttle response off the line.
Plenty of power for what it is.
No major popping on decel, rather a nice low burble as the rpms came down
No backfires etc...
So why did I do it you ask...cause theres always something else to try to make things better and so many people liked what it did for them. Oh...and I love to tinker
AFTER:
No change in setup other than re-connecting the TPS.
Off the line throttle response was bad. The bike wanted to die first before it would take off.
I noticed a backfire usually in situations where the RPMs were high (over 4000) and I needed to pull the clutch for a quick stop. Not a loud backfire but I could hear and feel it.
Didnt notice a change in popping on decel.
Didnt notice any increase or decrease in power.
Oh well...I guess I can not report positive results with this one. I guess my bike is just set up right
so your bike ran like crapp with the TPS disconnected? 
Erwin
05 America
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Re: Disconnect TPS (malarchy)
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,616
Check Pants
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Check Pants
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,616 |
Quote:
so your bike ran like crapp with the TPS disconnected?
Not like crap but noticeably worse in respect to backfire and off the line response. It felt like it wanted to die on takeoff unless I realy throttled up.
Normally its smooth as glass of the line and only backfired a couple times on startup but NEVER while riding or on decel.
Last edited by Zmilin; 09/04/2009 9:41 PM.
SOLD: 07 Black BA, 39mm FCRs, TPUSA stage 1 head, TPUSA 813 cams, TPUSA 10.8:1 pistons, TTP #3 igniter, Specialty Spares Long Cannons, Tsukayu Hard Bags. 82HP/55tq
NEW: 19 Goldwing Tour DCT
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Re: Disconnect TPS
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,198 Likes: 56
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,198 Likes: 56 |
Quote:
When you do a dyno run, the throttle is wide open.
So the spark is at full advance.
If you disconnect the tps, it goes to full advance (default).
Same thing, right?
Well not exactly since the dyno run the operator starts at closed throttle and opens it to get the full range and if default is full advance then you start at full advance instead of the normally retarded starting position then advancing as the engine runs faster. Not sure how much impact the TPS sensor has on that though since throttle position changes as you move through the gears and the advance should change as the engine runs faster not as the throttle opens and closes since the ignition has to keep up with the RPM not the throttle position.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Disconnect TPS
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,671 Likes: 15
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,671 Likes: 15 |
Quote:
...Well not exactly since the dyno run the operator starts at closed throttle and opens it to get the full range ...
Now we're getting technical, however for practical purposes the CV carbs are WOT above approx. 3500 RPMS (& lower)on a conventional dyno run. That said, a dyno ain't the street.
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Re: Disconnect TPS
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964
Stickman Yogi
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OP
Stickman Yogi
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964 |
Quote:
Quote:
I ain't laughing.
I am
Okay that's it! I'll never lead you unscathed through all the radar traps again. Yer on yer own next time!!!
Now let these guys get back to discussing TPS stuff. Whatareya... stoned or something!!
Live to love, love to live.
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