 Disconnect TPS
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964
Stickman Yogi
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OP
Stickman Yogi
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964 |
The other day I pulled the plug on the TPS but due to rain was not able to test the results until today. I rode for about 100k up and over a pass (so different elevation and bike had to pull hard) and it was hot in the valley and cool at the summit. Pretty good test I'd say. And the Verdict? Pull the plug (disclaimer... I am not a mechanic).
Without TPS:
- the bike idled a little faster... no big deal, just adjust accordingly.
- performance was equal to before (or did it run even better...hmmm?).
- No decel pop-di-dee-pop-pop. At all! Gone. Denada. Finito!! I like that.
Thanks to all who turned me on to this simple modification.
Live to love, love to live.
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Re: Disconnect TPS
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 198
Adjunct
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Adjunct
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+1 on pulling the plug Mountainman. My bike seems alot happier and the rev limit is more predictable. Wish I would have tried that sooner. Can anyone explain what is actually happening to cause the change?
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Re: Disconnect TPS
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 198
Adjunct
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Adjunct
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Never mind just read the other thread
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Re: Disconnect TPS
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,063 Likes: 8
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,063 Likes: 8 |
Mines been disconnected since last year and haven't really had any desire to plug it back in. It's nice to be able to downshift from high speed and listen to the engine decel all the way down through several gears as I come to a light with no poppaty pop pop.
12 Rocket Roadster
03 Bonneville America
69 BSA Firebird Scrambler
73 Yamaha TX 750
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Re: Disconnect TPS
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,172
Saddle Sore
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Saddle Sore
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,172 |
I'm disconnecting mine this weekend. Pulled out on a highway on my way home from work last night and had to jump into the fast lane and crank it hard due to an oil slick all over the slow lane... that was interesting..! Anyway, I hit the limiter in 2nd and the bike just went to sleep for what seemed like 10-15 seconds. Not a happy experience since I was going uphill at the time with traffic climbing up my ******. I was able to drift over to the slow lane beyond the greasy stretch and it finally came to life again.
Don't wanna play that game again any time soon.
More flags
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Re: Disconnect TPS
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,680
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,680 |
I am planning to disconnect mine this weekend as well. I had a similar experience on the highway. Outright dangerous is what it is when you are suddenly without any power and have to drift to the side, in traffic.
Thom
I might be wrong, I sometimes am.
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Re: Disconnect TPS
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,722 Likes: 5
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,722 Likes: 5 |
personally, I don't think that will prevent it from cutting out like that, I think it has more to do with the ignitor.
Always remember to be yourself. Unless you suck. Then pretend to be someone else.
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Re: Disconnect TPS
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,172
Saddle Sore
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Saddle Sore
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,172 |
It's done that to me before - only when I hit the rev limiter. I rarely hit the limiter in normal riding, so it hasn't been that big of a problem. I'm going to disconnect it on Sunday and see if it makes a difference.
More flags
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Re: Disconnect TPS
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964
Stickman Yogi
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OP
Stickman Yogi
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964 |
Quote:
I'm disconnecting mine this weekend. Pulled out on a highway on my way home from work last night and had to jump into the fast lane and crank it hard due to an oil slick all over the slow lane... that was interesting..! Anyway, I hit the limiter in 2nd and the bike just went to sleep for what seemed like 10-15 seconds. Not a happy experience since I was going uphill at the time with traffic climbing up my ******. I was able to drift over to the slow lane beyond the greasy stretch and it finally came to life again.
Don't wanna play that game again any time soon.
WTseriouslyF???? Triumph should be notified on this one. This is a serious safely issue! I mean, your bike just cuts the *^*& out!? Huh?!?!?
Live to love, love to live.
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Re: Disconnect TPS
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,172
Saddle Sore
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Saddle Sore
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,172 |
My bike's an 03' America with 30k+ miles on it. I think it's a question of something being worn out in the TPS, not a major factory safety issue. Like I mentioned, in normal riding I never hit the limiter. Even in the situation I described above, I didn't have to hit it, I just got on it more than usual....
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Re: Disconnect TPS
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964
Stickman Yogi
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OP
Stickman Yogi
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964 |
Small update on TPS disconnection. The pipes are quieter... huh? And I swear she has more power. One other thing...maybe the throttle is a little touchier.
Live to love, love to live.
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Re: Disconnect TPS
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 1
Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 1 |
It's just a mechanical potentiometer that most likely is slightly out of adjustment. With the idle screw far enough out for the butterfly to close completely this is what your meter should see:
TPS readings from a showroom bike are:
Blue & Yellow wires = 4.42K OHMS (4.40-4.44) closed throttle &
1.38K OHMS (1.36-1.40) wide open throttle.
Black & Yellow wires = 0.81k OHMS (0.79-0.83) closed throttle &
3.96k OHMS (3.94-3.98) wide open throttle.
It would be easy enough to see if your TPS is out of kilter if you have your meter handy.
On the other hand lots of cats are running after-market carbs with no ill effects so if you don't want the timing advance electronically manipulated go ahead and unplug the bugger, it won't hurt anything.
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
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Re: Disconnect TPS
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964
Stickman Yogi
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OP
Stickman Yogi
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964 |
Quote:
On the other hand lots of cats are running after-market carbs with no ill effects so if you don't want the timing advance electronically manipulated go ahead and unplug the bugger, it won't hurt anything.
Thanks for that bit of reassurance Ed... I've loved my bike even more after pulling the plug.
Live to love, love to live.
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Re: Disconnect TPS
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 1
Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 1 |
The mapping on our bikes (if I understand the maps http://www.bonnevilleamerica.com/forums/...part=1&vc=1 ), both 790 and 865 is designed to retard the ignition at higher revs. You could do an easy test just to satisfy yourself by climbing a hill at lower revs (just barely above lugging the engine) and listening for pinging (detonation). A subject for Greybeard to weigh in on for sure as he has a much higher developed understanding of all things cam and timing related.
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
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Re: Disconnect TPS
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 410
Adjunct
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Adjunct
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I am curious about this.. do you remove it from the carbs or leave it attached and just unplug the 3 wire connector?
TrOjAn
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Re: Disconnect TPS
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,616
Check Pants
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Check Pants
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,616 |
SOLD: 07 Black BA, 39mm FCRs, TPUSA stage 1 head, TPUSA 813 cams, TPUSA 10.8:1 pistons, TTP #3 igniter, Specialty Spares Long Cannons, Tsukayu Hard Bags. 82HP/55tq
NEW: 19 Goldwing Tour DCT
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Re: Disconnect TPS
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 170
Adjunct
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Adjunct
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Today is Thank a Soldier Day. Please celebrate all day long.
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Re: Disconnect TPS
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,198 Likes: 56
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,198 Likes: 56 |
Quote:
What is the TPS?
Throttle Position Sensor
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Disconnect TPS
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 127
Adjunct
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Adjunct
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Thanks for asking that, it kept me from showing my ignorance! So what's wrong w/the TPS and why do we want to unplug it? Could this have anything to do w/ the backfire syndrome that gets blamed for blowing out the starter idler gear?
Hot Pipes
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Re: Disconnect TPS
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964
Stickman Yogi
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OP
Stickman Yogi
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,964 |
Quote:
I am curious about this.. do you remove it from the carbs or leave it attached and just unplug the 3 wire connector?
Still attached to the carbs but just unplugged the connector. It is in a tough spot to get at which is behind and between the carbs but eventually I got it.
Quote:
Could this have anything to do w/ the backfire syndrome that gets blamed for blowing out the starter idler gear?
Nope James, my bike still backfires (occasionally) as usual upon startup. The reason I disconnected it was based on experience from others in this forum. Believe me when I tell you it was not from any technical know how on my part so I can't provide any actual knowledge. But I can tell you for sure my bike is a better deal for doing it. I tell you this after putting about 4000 km after pulling the plug.
Live to love, love to live.
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Re: Disconnect TPS
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,172
Saddle Sore
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Saddle Sore
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,172 |
Well, I still haven't pulled the plug yet... was going to do it several times, but either I'm too busy with other stuff or it finally quits raining and I can ride...
Anyway, I'd like to jabber on this topic a bit.
I had a 67 Bonneville, twin Amal carbs, no electronics. It ran the same every day, rain or shine, hot or cold outside. No electronic gizmos to tell it how to run. If it didn't run the same, you knew you had a problem.
With my 03 America, there are days when it runs "odd". Not bad, but not "right". A seat of the pants thing. If I stop for any reason, gas, cigarette, etc., shut it down and then start it again, it will run like I think it should. Stronger. The exhaust sounds deeper. This has been since it was new. I even posted this on here years ago and others noticed the same thing. We chalked it up to weather, engine temperature, altzheimer's, etc..
I'm now wondering if the TPS and the ignitor don't always see eye to eye as it were. I have no idea. Just typing out loud.
If the warden ever releases me from honey-do ******, I'll finally disconnect the thing and see if it makes the difference.
Now, back to our regularly scheduled programming....
More flags
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Re: Disconnect TPS
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 1
Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 1 |
You have a good point. The company has based the entire sum of their high end ignition programming on the foibles of an analog pot that's actuated by the butterfly rod on the right carb and held in place by one torx screw. Make me wonder why they didn't use an internal feed off the same lead that runs the tach instead...I mean, isn't it meant to modify the timing according to the rpm of the motor?
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
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Re: Disconnect TPS
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,457
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,457 |
Quote:
...I mean, isn't it meant to modify the timing according to the rpm of the motor?
Yes, but it also modifies the timing by calculating engine load with throttle position thrown in the mix. I'm thinking its changing timing without regard to real load. A 140 lb guy with no bags or anything would have the same program as someone two up loaded down. Maybe an old style vacuum advance would be better.
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Re: Disconnect TPS
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 1
Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 1 |
Quote:
Yes, but it also modifies the timing by calculating engine load with throttle position thrown in the mix.
I'm thinking that with 5 maps for the throttle position that the incremental change in timing just isn't drastic enough to rely on that pot when the ignitor already supplies exact rpm info (relative to itself and the accuracy of that metric is subject to the whims of Gill).
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
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Re: Disconnect TPS
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 94
Member
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Member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 94 |
well guys, gotta thank ya all. just unplugged the TPS at the suggestions here and i gotta say im impressed. pulls a little harder, better throttle response, it seems.. less vibration, no pop on decel. dont think ill be goin back.
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Re: Disconnect TPS
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,722 Likes: 5
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,722 Likes: 5 |
I've said this before... I ran mine on the dyno with the TPS hooked up and then immediately ran it again with the TPS disconnected and the machine showed absolutely no noticeable difference as far as horsepower or torque anywhere from idle to redline. When overlaid, the power lines were nearly identical.
Always remember to be yourself. Unless you suck. Then pretend to be someone else.
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Re: Disconnect TPS
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 73
Member
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Member
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Quote:
I've said this before... I ran mine on the dyno with the TPS hooked up and then immediately ran it again with the TPS disconnected and the machine showed absolutely no noticeable difference as far as horsepower or torque anywhere from idle to redline. When overlaid, the power lines were nearly identical.
If that is the case, it sounds to me like it dose not do anything. I think I will disconnect mine now
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Re: Disconnect TPS
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Joined: Mar 2009
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Stickman Yogi
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OP
Stickman Yogi
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Oh yeah Dave, I forgot about the dyno test you did. Anyway... now approaching 6000 km with the thing unplugged and loving every minute of it. The bike just seems 'better.' As stated before I think it pulls harder and no there's no pop-did-dee-pop-pop.
Live to love, love to live.
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Re: Disconnect TPS
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 94
Member
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Member
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keep in mind, i didnt say i gained anything... i cant afford dyno runs; heck, i dont even have a speedo hooked up, so i cant even compare mph/rpm at this point. im simply saying she feels as tho she pulls harder (aka acceleration, which is not a function of horsepower or even entirely torque, but where she is in the powerband). that said, if the plug does nothin, its a perfect candidate for the wiring harness in the sky... now for that sidestand switch...
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Re: Disconnect TPS
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,722 Likes: 5
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,722 Likes: 5 |
I know you didn't, I just want to be clear to anyone considering this that it's no magical power enhancement. As far as "feel" goes, I can't say one way or another, I never rode mine with it disconnected. But, if your looking to eliminate deceleration pop, this seems to be the way to do it!
Always remember to be yourself. Unless you suck. Then pretend to be someone else.
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Re: Disconnect TPS
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 71
Member
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Member
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Sounds to me like the igniter is evaluating the two signals of throttle angle and rpm to improve
driveabilty performance. Standard MO for modern day ignition systems.
Seeing as a dyno run is a test of WOT (wide open throttle) only, all bets are off as far as
driveabilty. Plugged or unplugged, at WOT the ignition is going to go for it's full advance.
A more accurate test for the plugged/unplugged option would be a half throttle dyno run. Mark
a spot on the throttle grip to twist the grip to. Nobody ever tunes the lower throttle
position circuits on a dyno. Just the main jet circuit.
"When possible, make a legal u-turn."
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Re: Disconnect TPS
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,099
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,099 |
Hey Scott,
I don't understand how a dyno run is a test of wot only.
When we ran 6 bikes at the NH Rally a couple of years ago,
the charts showed from idle to wot with curves for hp and
tourqe, as well as an a/f curve. Am I missing something?
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Re: Disconnect TPS
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 71
Member
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Member
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 71 |
Your dyno run is a measure of torque and horsepower through the rpm range at WOT.
The throttle is twisted fairly quickly to WOT and the motor rolls up to redline.
The term idle in that sense is referring to the rpm it started at.
Not necessarily the throttle position.
Nobody dyno tunes for peak power at say, 1/4 throttle or 1/2 throttle which
would allow you to tune the pilot and needle. Those are the circuits most used
and where your driveabilty is.
Last edited by Scottdog; 08/13/2009 4:24 PM.
"When possible, make a legal u-turn."
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Re: Disconnect TPS
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,722 Likes: 5
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,722 Likes: 5 |
Quote:
Nobody dyno tunes for peak power at say, 1/4 throttle or 1/2 throttle which
would allow you to tune the pilot and needle. Those are the circuits most used
and where your driveabilty is.
My dyno guy does, and I know exactly what my air/fuel mix is at cruising speed/rpm.
Quote:
Your dyno run is a measure of torque and horsepower through the rpm range at WOT.
The throttle is twisted fairly quickly to WOT and the motor rolls up to redline.
The term idle in that sense is referring to the rpm it started at.
Not necessarily the throttle position.
Isn't the default setting for an unplugged TPS to WOT anyway? So how would a dyno not show it on a WOT pull?
Always remember to be yourself. Unless you suck. Then pretend to be someone else.
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Re: Disconnect TPS
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 117
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 117 |
i kinda caught some of this as sailed by way over my head and was pleased when someone asked what the TPS was and had it explained but in idiot terms is that the black connection on side of carbs ?
Tone
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Re: Disconnect TPS
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,722 Likes: 5
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,722 Likes: 5 |
Always remember to be yourself. Unless you suck. Then pretend to be someone else.
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Re: Disconnect TPS
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 117
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 117 |
many thanks i think i give it a go. at last a change i can afford to do on my bike 
Tone
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Re: Disconnect TPS
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,063 Likes: 8
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,063 Likes: 8 |
Quote:
i kinda caught some of this as sailed by way over my head and was pleased when someone asked what the TPS was and had it explained but in idiot terms is that the black connection on side of carbs ?
Hey Anthony. No such thing as idiot terms or idiotic questions. Don't hesitate to ask in the future. The gang here appreciates being able to help even if the question appears to be simple. It's how we all learned. 
12 Rocket Roadster
03 Bonneville America
69 BSA Firebird Scrambler
73 Yamaha TX 750
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Re: Disconnect TPS
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 71
Member
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Member
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 71 |
Quote:
Quote:
Nobody dyno tunes for peak power at say, 1/4 throttle or 1/2 throttle which
would allow you to tune the pilot and needle. Those are the circuits most used
and where your driveabilty is.
My dyno guy does, and I know exactly what my air/fuel mix is at cruising speed/rpm.
This is good. Sounds like he is using his dyno the way you're supposed to.
Most guys, especially the Dyno Doctors at the rallys, just tune the main and
produce numbers to brag about amungst your friends.
Quote:
Quote:
Your dyno run is a measure of torque and horsepower through the rpm range at WOT.
The throttle is twisted fairly quickly to WOT and the motor rolls up to redline.
The term idle in that sense is referring to the rpm it started at.
Not necessarily the throttle position.
Isn't the default setting for an unplugged TPS to WOT anyway? So how would a dyno not show it on a WOT pull?
I don't understand your question here. 
"When possible, make a legal u-turn."
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Re: Disconnect TPS
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,722 Likes: 5
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,722 Likes: 5 |
I didn't really understand it either... 
Always remember to be yourself. Unless you suck. Then pretend to be someone else.
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