 Working with Aluminum sheet
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Hi all, I'm trying to make a new rear fender out of Aluminum. I've never done this before, so it's a bit of a challenge. I've carved a wooden former, but I'm having trouble as the Aluminum keeps cracking.
I started with 2mm sheet but it was too hard to work. even with heat from my trusty blowtorch. I'm now using 1.2mm sheet which is easier to beat but keeps cracking.
The idea was to have it polished up, so I want to avoid welding it up. After a whole day of work wasted, I'll need to start again.
Anybody out there know where I'm going wrong?
The path of excess leads to the Palace of Wisdom
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Re: Working with Aluminum sheet
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SHaping alloy can be a nightmare, might be worth cutting and alli welding it to get the shape then polish..
I believe there are different grades of alli, some more plyable than others, might be worth a bit of research.
I have some here but more then a single bend and that splits too..
TrOjAn
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Re: Working with Aluminum sheet
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Joined: Sep 2005
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Freelance Jedi Knight
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Freelance Jedi Knight
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i know who knows but he can't speak english  he's working on daily basis on thing like this  all from aluminium
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Re: Working with Aluminum sheet
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Well I'd better learn to speak Polish very quickly then! Just drop him off at my house on yer way back to Wales mate.
I've already cut the lugs off the frame and rewelded new ones to take the new fender, so there is no return. I just gotta learn.
The path of excess leads to the Palace of Wisdom
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Re: Working with Aluminum sheet
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Joined: Sep 2005
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Freelance Jedi Knight
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Freelance Jedi Knight
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not going back to Wales  been there yesterday  and my mate is in Poland
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Re: Working with Aluminum sheet
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Not really helping are we mate?  Perhaps you could email him and translate?  Yer Bikes lookin good buddy.  Anybody else out there who know an english speakin Alloy genius who can tell me how to beat the sheet without it cracking?
The path of excess leads to the Palace of Wisdom
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Re: Working with Aluminum sheet
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825
"Lighten up, Francis."
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"Lighten up, Francis."
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825 |
No direct experience but have you tried annealing the aluminum? Saw it on the first Motorcycle Mania show with Jesse James. He heated the aluminum before making a gas tank.
Ah yes, I see you did. I don't remember if they said what thickness he was using on that show.
Last edited by FriarJohn; 06/14/2009 4:13 PM.
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Re: Working with Aluminum sheet
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Done a bit of this in the past. What sort of temperature are you getting the ali sheet up to ?? It doesn't need to be too hot as all you're trying to do is relieve the stresses in the material. One tip I can give you.... rub some normal hand soap (bar type, not liquid) along the sheet of ali where you plan to start the first bend. Heat the run with the torch until the soap turns dark brown/black, that's the right temperature to get the sheet ready for working. As you work the ali it will build up stress again.....you need to keep annealling the sheet as before or it will crack. HTH.
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Re: Working with Aluminum sheet
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Joined: Jan 2005
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"Lighten up, Francis."
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"Lighten up, Francis."
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825 |
Quote:
i know who knows but he can't speak english
he's working on daily basis on thing like this
all from aluminium
That is just stunning.
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Re: Working with Aluminum sheet
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,816
Freelance Jedi Knight
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Freelance Jedi Knight
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it really is when few years back he told me he is going to built something like this I wondered if he is serious  and he was ......he is building bikes either
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Re: Working with Aluminum sheet
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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Boyd Coddington built a few aluminum hot rods. Farmed the body work out to a real artist. Marcel, I think is his name.
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Re: Working with Aluminum sheet
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on a local HotRod show here the guys made a bike guard from flat sheet using a wheel similar to this buggered if i can remember the name of the thing tho sory 
04 yellow&black Speedmaster+the Money Pit{xj jeep}
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Re: Working with Aluminum sheet
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Oil Expert
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Oil Expert
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Look carefully at the top. English Wheel. My brother makes his gas tanks on a gizmo like that.
"Wise men speak because they have something to say, fools because they have to say something."
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 Re: Working with Aluminum sheet
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3/4 Throttle
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3/4 Throttle
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Simon, as mentioned above, you're best using an English wheel. It kinda stretches the metal as it bends, so it doesn't break. I was gonna get some work done by a fabricator mate of mine but he couldn't do bodywork as he needed the wheel to bend the metal.
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Re: Working with Aluminum sheet
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Joined: Aug 2008
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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get a piece of 2024-t4 aluminum sheet and start working that. I like this chart. Stay away from what is commonly known as "aircraft" quality
The 5000 series is probably best all around for a fender.
Clay
Last edited by frijoli; 06/16/2009 10:14 PM.
01010100 01110010 01101001 01110101 01101101 01110000 01101000 <3
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Re: Working with Aluminum sheet
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825
"Lighten up, Francis."
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"Lighten up, Francis."
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825 |
I bought some aluminum stock from the hardware store for a little project. It's 1/8" thick and 2" wide, flat. Can I bend this stuff, like in a vice? Do I have to heat it? Not looking for complicated bends, just 90 degrees.
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Re: Working with Aluminum sheet
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Joined: Aug 2007
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Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
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You should have no problems, John.
Always remember to be yourself. Unless you suck. Then pretend to be someone else.
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Re: Working with Aluminum sheet
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Joined: Feb 2007
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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Just be sure you disconnect the battery first.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Working with Aluminum sheet
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,721 Likes: 5
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Aug 2007
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Quote:
Just be sure you disconnect the battery first.
critical
that's critical
Always remember to be yourself. Unless you suck. Then pretend to be someone else.
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Re: Working with Aluminum sheet
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Joined: Jan 2008
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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Quote:
get a piece of 2024-t4 aluminum sheet and start working that. I like this chart. Stay away from what is commonly known as "aircraft" quality
The 5000 series is probably best all around for a fender.
Clay
I agree with the above - 5042 should work well, you can specific the temper as well (H number). THere are a lot of aluminum alloys with very specific properties, not all suited to cold working. I do metal spinning and usually use 1100 series H0 temper, the metal starts out very soft but is much harder by the time I am done working it.
05 speedmaster - 1100cc, 11:1 racing pistons, Carillo rods, thunderbike cams, ported and polished head, 2mm over intake and exhaust valves, Barnett kevlar clutch, scepter pipes, oversize manifolds, 45mm HSR's, TTP stage 4 firestarter
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Re: Working with Aluminum sheet
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 401
Adjunct
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OP
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Quote:
Done a bit of this in the past. What sort of temperature are you getting the ali sheet up to ?? It doesn't need to be too hot as all you're trying to do is relieve the stresses in the material. One tip I can give you.... rub some normal hand soap (bar type, not liquid) along the sheet of ali where you plan to start the first bend. Heat the run with the torch until the soap turns dark brown/black, that's the right temperature to get the sheet ready for working. As you work the ali it will build up stress again.....you need to keep annealling the sheet as before or it will crack.
HTH.
Thanks for the T  ip on anealing. I hadn't realised that it would 'work harden' so quickly and without giving any indication of it getting brittle before cracking.
The path of excess leads to the Palace of Wisdom
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Re: Working with Aluminum sheet
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 401
Adjunct
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OP
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Quote:
Quote:
get a piece of 2024-t4 aluminum sheet and start working that. I like this chart. Stay away from what is commonly known as "aircraft" quality
The 5000 series is probably best all around for a fender.
Clay
I agree with the above - 5042 should work well, you can specific the temper as well (H number). THere are a lot of aluminum alloys with very specific properties, not all suited to cold working. I do metal spinning and usually use 1100 series H0 temper, the metal starts out very soft but is much harder by the time I am done working it.
OK guys, I'm gonna source some 5500. I'm working this by hand, beating it over a wooden former using a setection of mallets and hammers.
So does anybody know?
What thickness I should be able to shape in this way? Bearing in mind it's a little more intricate than a standard fender, so it will get stretched and thinned during the process?
How long can sheet be worked after annealing and how can I see stress developing before the work piece cracks?
I'll be adding some Phots tomorrow so you can see what a farce I'm having with the whole affair 
The path of excess leads to the Palace of Wisdom
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Re: Working with Aluminum sheet
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
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Blowing gravel off rural roads
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Re: Working with Aluminum sheet
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Joined: Sep 2005
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Freelance Jedi Knight
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Freelance Jedi Knight
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Simon have a look at this shaping alu
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Re: Working with Aluminum sheet
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Check Pants
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Check Pants
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Check the JockeyJournal.com forums. Lots of metal shaper/benders on that site (old school choppers). I have to say most just use steel, not too much aluminum. Keep us posted on your progress.
Al
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Re: Working with Aluminum sheet
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Joined: Feb 2007
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
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Quote:
Check the JockeyJournal.com forums. Lots of metal shaper/benders on that site (old school choppers). I have to say most just use steel, not too much aluminum. Keep us posted on your progress.
That is probably because steel is much more forgiving for a novice to work with. (not saying those guys are novices just the reason so many work steel) Copper is much easier to work too. I am not a sheet metal worker but am a novice and have worked with all of the above and found the aluminum the hardest to work.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Working with Aluminum sheet
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Having had many failed attempts , I've booked myself on a course! In the meantime, I'll be makin the next one with good ol messy fibre glass 
The path of excess leads to the Palace of Wisdom
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Re: Working with Aluminum sheet
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Joined: Mar 2009
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Stickman Yogi
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Stickman Yogi
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You know... I've never tried to shape sheet Aluminum but from what you've said here I don't think I'll even try. A huge thumbs up for effort though. Sounds like a b**** to work with.
Live to love, love to live.
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Re: Working with Aluminum sheet
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It has been a catalogue of disasters which would have made the captain of the Titanic look competent. I've learnt a lot. 1) Never by aluminium of unknown grades off Ebay. 3 Days wasted 2) Research which grade people who know what they are doing would use. No time at all  3) If you are going to beat aluminium over a former, dont make the former out of MDF. Easy to carve with a power file though. So I might use it for simple shapes like an air dam. To much beating destroys the MDF. 4) If Former is made out of MDF, dont let it get wet. I have no workshop, so all this is taking place under a temporary Gazeebo on the Drive. MDF swells like a pregnant hippo when it's just damp out there. 2 days wasted. 5) Do not leave your former out in the sun cos all the laminated boards will split apart. 1 day wasted 6) take the workpiece of the former before annealing again. The heat transfered through the metal destroys MDF and smells of fishglue  7) Make the former from Marine Ply 8) Try and do this with a friend, no amount of tie down straps and claps are gonne help you keep a 5" piece of Ally under control. Hour upon endless hour of beating the same bits over and over again cos you didnt see it move and now its screwed. 9) Find a college and do some night classes, 12 weeks Learnin stuff  10) Probable No1 DO NOT cut the back end of yer motorcycle until you have learned steps 1 to 9.
The path of excess leads to the Palace of Wisdom
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Re: Working with Aluminum sheet
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Joined: Mar 2009
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Stickman Yogi
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Stickman Yogi
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I can see why you went with MDF for your former. Like you said it is easy to shape but otherwise not a good material for beating on or for using where moisture is present. There is an exterior grade MDF which might work for the moisture problem but would still fall apart after several beatings. Marine ply is pricey. Any cabinet grade ply should work as long as there's little to no voids on the edges. Be interesting to see what they use in the course you sign up for.
Live to love, love to live.
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Re: Working with Aluminum sheet
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Joined: Aug 2009
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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Just my simply thoughts. I'm an Aviation Structural Mechanic in the US Navy. I use 7075 T-6 all the time, the best advise I can give is to make sure your sharpest bends go against the grain of whatever metal you use.
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Re: Working with Aluminum sheet
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Joined: Jun 2008
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Member
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Member
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I've seen some "generic" metal fenders online, maybe take one of those with the major shaping done for you, then just trim and finish to exact shape you want.
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