 Re: When the government runs the car business
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,689 Likes: 21
Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,689 Likes: 21 |
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USPS is still a quasi-govt agency, but with a mandate to be self sufficient (no tax dollars). It's not quite ready to really compete in an open market. That too is changing though.
There is not one thing quasi about it. Every bit of it enjoys govt. immunity and all the workers are on the govt. payroll. They enjoy eminent domain and 9 of the ll board or regents are appointed by the President. All postage and package handling is governed by the fed and tampering with anything they own is a federal offense. They are not even subject to vehicle registration.
 so I guess they need another 70 years of help huh. Thank goodness FedEx and UPS were a bit more aggressive.
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
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Re: When the government runs the car business
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8
New Tires
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New Tires
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AMTRAK,Postal Service, Freddie Mac and Fannie May all quasi governmental institutions and so well run. Now the auto industries, gee I can hardly wait to see how this turns out. Be prepared for a economic lost decade, higher taxes or inflation, or both. This politicalising of capitalism short circuits capitalisms creative destruction and misdiverts resources from more productive endevores. What we have now is a zombie industrial policy.
Like the ONE said, " America is the greatest counrty in the world and I'm going to change it".
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
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Re: When the government runs the car business
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
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Business Week has an interesting article on the decline of General Motors. All of you who think this is something that just happened or is all the fault of one group should take heed. Business Week
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: When the government runs the car business
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,689 Likes: 21
Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,689 Likes: 21 |
Good article, thanks Bill. One addition though.
In 1975 the Honda Civic hit the U.S. All good reasons for the internal arrogance to tank them but the external influence of Honda pushed them over the edge IMHO> Very similar to the motorcycle industry in the late 60s.
We bought a Civic for $2700 bucks and it ran forever for a zillion miles per gallon. By 1980 Honda sales guys were just sitting in the showroom taking orders. We bought an 80 Accord selling the 75 Civic for $2,500.
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
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Re: When the government runs the car business
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,164 Likes: 1
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,164 Likes: 1 |
When the government runs the car business http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAqPMJFaEdY
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Re: When the government runs the car business
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Joined: Dec 2006
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New Tires
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New Tires
Joined: Dec 2006
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In all business failures there's plenty of blame to go all around. Per the article the time line coinsides with GM signing outrageuos UAW contracts.Contracts that almost all professional accountants, actuaries and economist could not be sustained over time, well except union economist. My biggest problem is the structure of this bailout. It's about paying off political donors.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
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Re: When the government runs the car business
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
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What defines an outrageous contract? (I'm beginning to see some towers  )
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: When the government runs the car business
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8
New Tires
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New Tires
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Ones that kill the golden goose. Ones that support more retires than atually produce. Ones that pay employees to watch tv and play cards. Ones that force the employer to borrow scores of billions of dollars to fund a pension plan. Ones like that.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
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Re: When the government runs the car business
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
Well Mac, I think you forgot the "Ones" who work in the only supposed "modern industrialized first-world country" without universal healthcare which the companies over in Japan and Germany who compete against our "Ones" don't have to supply to their "Ones" because those "Ones" over there DO HAVE universal heathcare, BUT those companies who employ our "Ones" have to pay for it out of their pockets, and thus there's less of a profit margin for those companies who employ our "Ones" here. (BUT I suppose it'd be fine with you if our "Ones" who work here don't have any healthcare at all, huh?!)
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: When the government runs the car business
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,681 Likes: 1 |
Quote:
Quote:
Okay. I will buy Ford stock then, at $5 a share.
Heh, I just sold my Ford shares about 2 weeks ago, bought it back in January when it was trading at $2 a share, sold it at $5.34, made a nice quick 3k.  I thought about holding it some more, but decided not to be greedy..
Rich
Crap, I'm behind the curve again.  I didn't know Ford was at $2. I just started paying attention a couple of weeks ago when you sold yours. I haven't talked to my Stockborker friend yet. He and his son have been on a backpacking trip, my son included. I guess I'd better get some expert advice before my dream of becoming a millionaire is gone... 
"Catching a yellow jacket in your shirt at seventy miles per hour can double your vocabulary" Author unknown
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Re: When the government runs the car business
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 533
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 533 |
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Unions simply MUST have job banks where 'workers' sit around all day drawing full wages and benefits while doing absolutely nothing BECAUSE other countries have universal healthcare!!!!111Eleven
I ofttimes wonder if Dwight actually reads the posts he responds to. The 'ONES' referenced in the post referred to are CONTRACTS not PEOPLE.
2018 FLHCS
2014 Surly Straggler - 16,000 miles and counting!
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Re: When the government runs the car business
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
Nah! Here's a little secret for ya Leno...and the rest of ya out there! Dwight doesn't "read" a gosh darn thing around here. BUT, Dwight is REAL good at pickin' up the basic intent of those "Ones" out there who are tryin' to make a point. (the "Ones" here of course refer to "people" and not to "contracts" in this case, you understand, 'cuz Dwight also thinks the well-being of people are juuuuust a little bit more important sometimes than those contracts are, ya see) And Leno, because I have respect for your intelligence, I know you got the general crux of MY intent there too, didn't ya?!
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: When the government runs the car business
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Joined: Jan 2009
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Adjunct
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Adjunct
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Maybe so Dwight, however being close to apolitical and looking more for the big picture than a convenient whipping boy, I also see that Mac brought up valid points which went unaddressed while a point he never mentioned was belabored. If anyone wanted to portray unions as paragons of virtue, the UAW would be among the least advised as 'poster child' for that effort.
Now if universal healthcare is what you would really like to debate, I am up for that. Question: Name the ONLY completely viable universal healthcare system currently in operation and briefly explain why it works as well as it does.
2018 FLHCS
2014 Surly Straggler - 16,000 miles and counting!
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Re: When the government runs the car business
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Joined: Feb 2005
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
Nope! Sorry Leno, but I really don't care to debate the issue of universal healthcare here. This issue has been done to death at BA.com, where, like a lot of other "hot button" issues, it almost always becomes heated and then locked.
The only reason I brought that issue up in the first place was due to those congressional hearings that took place about a year and a half ago, where the corporate heads of the Big Three testified that one of their biggest competitive disadvanages was that most of the foreign brands' workers have their healthcare costs covered by each of their respective governments.
(and BTW, if you recall, in my response to Mac, I agreed with many of his, as you stated, "valid points", and so that's why they went, as you stated, "unaddressed", because what would have been the point to debate a point or points to which I had already agreed?)
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: When the government runs the car business
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,689 Likes: 21
Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,689 Likes: 21 |
So, the Nissan and Toyota non-union shops have no health and retirement in this country? You don't have to answer that, I know they do have good coverages. Dwight, many municipal and state workers in Ca. got the same benefit packages many years ago. I think maybe you did come to think of it. Ca. is way in the black, or was that red, I forget  The UAW leadership has and had only one responsibility. That was to make as much money for as many folks as they could. The car companies were the ones that had to say "no". They didn't do that in the interest of the bottom line for that year. They knew it could never be sustained but they didn't care. They got their bonuses and now live in gated high end communities. The same communities the union bosses and politicians live in. We have to bail that type of greed out why again? For those on the top floors of the GM building. They should do us all a favor. Open the window and step forward. I like them a lot more than the bankers though. At least they built something.
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
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Re: When the government runs the car business
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821 |
Quote:
Ones that kill the golden goose. Ones that support more retires than atually produce. Ones that pay employees to watch tv and play cards. Ones that force the employer to borrow scores of billions of dollars to fund a pension plan. Ones like that.
So you're saying you don't know of any specifics that you would consider outrageous?
That's just anti-union rhetoric. It doesn't mean a thing.
C'mon, if we're to have an intelligent conversation on the subject, you're going to have to do better than that.
Which specific contracts and which specific benefits do you consider outrageous?
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: When the government runs the car business
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,681 Likes: 1
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,681 Likes: 1 |
"Catching a yellow jacket in your shirt at seventy miles per hour can double your vocabulary" Author unknown
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Re: When the government runs the car business
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
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Right you are Paul. Go to sleep already 
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: When the government runs the car business
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8
New Tires
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New Tires
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Yes and in most " modern industrialized first-world countries" with universal healthcare 10% unemployment is better than full employment, so by europe's standards we are doing great at 9.4%. Japan?, Americans wouldn't live like they do there.
The government can't get Medicare under control, but they are proposing nationalizing the 17% US GDP healthcare industry.
It will be an interesting experiment, the average American, who doesn't make the $ a UAW worker makes, will subsidise the auto industry through universal healthcare, ie rationing healthcare.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
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Re: When the government runs the car business
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,681 Likes: 1
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
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Posts: 6,681 Likes: 1 |
Nothing personal Bill it started many posts before yours. It is kind of sad about the US auto industry, but we are fighters and they will remain in one form or another. I just hope Chris's dealership is not going under. Dwight is right about one thing. It's the people and families of all the workers that are going to be affected by this mess that I am worried about.
"Catching a yellow jacket in your shirt at seventy miles per hour can double your vocabulary" Author unknown
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Re: When the government runs the car business
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,721 Likes: 5
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,721 Likes: 5 |
A certain style of government was pretty successful   Now, if ours can get us an 8 passenger vehicle that gets 40 mpg, who will complain? Like this beauty here... 
Always remember to be yourself. Unless you suck. Then pretend to be someone else.
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Re: When the government runs the car business
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,681 Likes: 1
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
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Yes VW is riding high right now with sales of cars a 6.2 million per year. They are right behind Toyota at 9 million. Hey I'd take a restored VW Vanagan. 
"Catching a yellow jacket in your shirt at seventy miles per hour can double your vocabulary" Author unknown
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Re: When the government runs the car business
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
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Quote:
Nothing personal Bill
I know, note the smiley face .
I find it boring too that some people just parrot empty phrases as though it's gospel.
But I just can't let them go unchallenged, ya know. I want these zombies to actually think for a change. So maybe calling them out will do it.
I doubt it though.
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: When the government runs the car business
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Joined: Dec 2006
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New Tires
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New Tires
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For one I'm not anti-union. I date a gal that works the line at Ford. As for specifics? this is a conversation not a college lecture on UAW contracts. But, I'll give you one already mentioned, job banks, 4,200 employees, geting paid 8 hours a day, some making $75 - $80,000 a year from a $4.5 billion "Big 3" job bank fund.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
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Re: When the government runs the car business
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 533
Adjunct
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Adjunct
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Safari windows! 
2018 FLHCS
2014 Surly Straggler - 16,000 miles and counting!
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Re: When the government runs the car business
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
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Still all just hearsay Mac, not specifics.
I'll accept that you don't have any.
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: When the government runs the car business
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8
New Tires
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New Tires
Joined: Dec 2006
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This is a well known fact, look it up. You sir are welcome to your own opinions, but not your own facts.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
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Re: When the government runs the car business
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8
New Tires
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New Tires
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8 |
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
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Re: When the government runs the car business
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821 |
Quote:
This is a well known fact, look it up. You sir are welcome to your own opinions, but not your own facts.
What's a well known fact 
I'm just asking for specifics.
Maybe parts of the contracts are outrageous.
I haven't read them and I'm certain that you haven't either since your answers are all generalizations and not specific as to the unreasonable clauses or provisions of those contracts.
Or do you just consider anybody making a decent living with a pension and health care to be "outrageous"?
Oh, and just to be sure we're on the same page, I'm not referring to the bailouts. I'm referring to your comment that the auto industry was signing "outrageous" union contracts during the time line of the Business Week article.
Last edited by bigbill; 06/06/2009 6:45 PM.
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: When the government runs the car business
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,465 Likes: 2
Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Posts: 3,465 Likes: 2 |
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I'm thinkin hippies.
A 21 window, V-Dub MicroBus. SWEET.
My chick and some homegrown and I'd be all set.
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Re: When the government runs the car business
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
Have you guys seen those VW TV ads recently? They've been using a guy with a german accent "talking for" an old VW Beetle in those ads for a while ya know, but now they've got a guy "talking for" an old MicroBus sounding like some California Duuuuude, Maaaaan!!! (it cracks me up every time I see it....Maaaaaan!) 
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: When the government runs the car business
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8
New Tires
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New Tires
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8 |
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
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Re: When the government runs the car business
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,210
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,210 |
I seen a VW dealership ad on the back of a bus that said..
"Vut are you Vaiting Vor?"
It seemed kinda racist...haha
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Re: When the government runs the car business
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825
"Lighten up, Francis."
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"Lighten up, Francis."
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825 |
Last edited by FriarJohn; 06/08/2009 9:19 AM.
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Re: When the government runs the car business
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,639 Likes: 3
Old Hand
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Old Hand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,639 Likes: 3 |
Quote:
I seen a VW dealership ad on the back of a bus that said..
"Vut are you Vaiting Vor?"
It seemed kinda racist...haha
I need to get a bumper sticker made, "I vate vor du to get zee azz offer zo I can pazz!
Let's hope there's intelligent life somewhere in space 'cause it's buggar all down here. -- Monte Python
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Re: When the government runs the car business
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,210
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,210 |
Quote:
Quote:
I seen a VW dealership ad on the back of a bus that said..
"Vut are you Vaiting Vor?"
It seemed kinda racist...haha
I need to get a bumper sticker made, "I vate vor du to get zee azz offer zo I can pazz!
uh oh....youre gonna have a german accent in my head when I read your posts from now on..haha
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Re: When the government runs the car business
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Member
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Re: When the government runs the car business
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Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
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Oh geez Joe, here you go posting a rational explanation of a complex situation. Only the thinking people around here will understand that. The simpletons want simple answers so they don't have to think for themselves.
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: When the government runs the car business
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,681 Likes: 1
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
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Crap. GM stock down to $.84 but Ford is rising up to $6.11. Fiat/Chrysler is not even listed yet.
"Catching a yellow jacket in your shirt at seventy miles per hour can double your vocabulary" Author unknown
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Re: When the government runs the car business
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,630 Likes: 7
Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,630 Likes: 7 |
Think "British Leyland" That worked well. 
We all like to think of ourselves as rugged individualists. But when push comes to shove most of us are sheep who do what we are told. Worst of all, a lot of us become unpaid agents of whoever is controlling the agenda by enforcing the current dogma on the few rugged individualists who actually exist.
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