Bonneville America Forums Forums Technical Forums Performance Mods AI removal with EFI?

has anyone removed the AI with an EFI? having put new exhausts on the bike the backfiring from the AI is just too loud.
Do Triumph have to remap the carbs? and would they even do this?

If you installed low restriction exhausts, you need to remap. The dealerships do this and it doesn't take long. Remapping will help the popping on decel... so will AI removal (at least it does for the carb versions...should for EFI)

Quite right, you will need to remap your ECU, quick easy and cheap at dealers, and it will curtail popping of the exhaust and nicely improve performance and sound. Recommend not to remove the secondary air injection system for EFI. Removal gains nothing, is not factory supported, and AI is necessary for the O2 sensor feedback circuits. Carbed engines are a different animal.

Thanks for that advice, its for my mates bike, and as he is a copper i think that he is a bit worried that he will get in trouble over the sound!
No benefits in being a badge carrying police officer it seems!

Correct. Triumph Tech is specific on not removing EFI from FI motors. The bike will get the wrong info. from the 02 sensor. Carb bikes are different-no issues as we all know.

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and it will curtail popping of the exhaust

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In my experience the remapping for aftermarket exhausts does not eliminate the popping which is due to the AI.

I believe it will reduce the popping but as I had my bike remapped at the same time as the pipes were fitted (at new) I don't have a comparison for no remapping.

I have aftermarket exhaust, I have removed AI, remapped ECU with Tuneboy programme to overide O2 sensors, runs like a dream.

Brilliant news Davo - You're d'man.
So how about sharing the details. Is your Tuneboy map available to others (if that's how it these things work)? Did you resolve the lost 10HP of your 180 degree pods? Do you still get any popping? Did you remove the O2 sensor?
Can we get this info into a sticky - there's gonna be lots of guys wanting to follow your lead.

I have the modded stock pipes from chevy605. The lead Triumph tech at the dealer in Raleigh NC told me to remove the AI (that will reduce or eliminate the popping) and have it re-mapped by a dealer for 'TORS with AI removed'. He says that will produce optimum performance on the EFI engines.

I'm getting the AI kit Friday, will install it early next week, and hopefully have the re-map done right after that.

Will report back.

It was running like a dog with aftermarket pipes on until I bypassed the O2 sensors.
Regardless of what map I had in the ECU the O2 sensors would run in closed loop which caused backfiring, missing etc...
Wayne (from tuneboy) has a copy of my tune.
2 options.
You by the tuneboy product (approx $500) which gives you the key code to your ECU and hardware to connect to computer.This allows you to modify your ECU when ever you like.
2. If your in QLD you could go to Skip's (details on Ratbags forum) he might be able to download the map for you cheaper (as he would not be giving you the ECU key code)
The problem with option 2 is that if you ever want to remap you would have to go back and pay again but the advantage is you would have someone that knows how to work the program.

Thanks Dave. You've pretty much sold me on Tuneboy for my bike ... looks like a plan but probably wise to wait till my warranty expires - don't want to give the dealer/Triumph a reason to refuse warranty claims.

But I'm curious about your setup (this lad is keen on researching things first - OCD) .

What air filters are you running?
Do you have a dyno after fixing the lost 10HP that you can post?
Did you also physically remove the O2 sensors (as well as electronically bypassing them)?
Have you removed all the AI plumbing as per the carb model proceedure?

Sorry to pester you with questions Dave, but this is valuable info. You're a pathfinder mate.

I wouldn't worry about the warranty, you can reset the ECU back to standard with the program at anytime and no-ones the wiser.
I have k & N pods on. As far as the loss in HP the graphs I posted are without the turn outs on. I don't know why it drops off before the rev limiter cuts in! I can say after riding many bikes in my life it is a sweet ride throughout the revs for the size of cubes that it is.
I mean it's not going to pull Jesus off the cross but again quite torquey for its out put.
I have left the O2 sensors insitu just to block the holes.
AI is completely blocked off. Unlike the carb models though you do not plug up the hoses running from the injector housing (fake carbies) it will run like crap if you do.
I still have the unit sitting up under the tank, I just put some bolts in the head (apparently nissan sump plugs are a fit).
If you still have the air box insitu a 17mm ball bearing in the hose running from the box will do the same.
In hindsight I wouldn't spend the $300 odd dollars on a freak airbox removal kit, I think the battery relocation mod looks the go, but because of all the wiring to the ECU it is going to prove to be a bit of a headache I think to reroute.
The other option is to keep the original airbox, add a K & N and bell mouth, You will gain just as much in my opinion.
I hope that all makes sense, I have been on the Wild Turkey.
Bloody crikey I love Bourbon

Ok, finally got the AI removed yesterday. On the down side, the Engine idiot light stays on (trying to tell me
something? ) and it won't start correctly. Hit the starter button, it cranks over and starts, but then won't idle and quits. By playing with the throttle, I can keep it idling, but it's a bit uneven sounding. After a couple of seconds of that, it smooths out and stays idling at zero throttle. Then it seems fine. 1st ride was just a bit around the neighborhood, ran fine but throttle seemed sticky at low speeds. Was a real pain to do a couple of u turns. Back in the driveway, I was playing with the idle screw, and noticed that as I did so, the throttle would tighten and loosen as I tried turning the screw both directions. Finally found a setting where the idle seemed Ok and the throttle felt smooth.

After a difficult start again, I took it out for about a 20 mile test run, to a gas station to tank it up and back. Funny thing, after fueling, when I started the bike, it started right up like it normally did.

As for the actual ride, it seemed to shift smoother, and pull a bit better. And the popping, both the small amount when up-shifting but mainly when decelerating, was completely gone.

The idle thing seems almost like the computer needs a few seconds to sense the change and adjust for it, but I don't know enough about it to say.

The engine light must mean there's a open circuit, but I'm not sure what it is.

My local dealers are all closed today, but I'll call the tech I've been talking to tomorrow and ask. I'll also call my dealer about getting the re-map done.

Just a FYI, the little plugs or caps that come with the British Customs AI removal kit are too large to effectively plug the manifold vacuum ports. I bought a pkg of 2 5/32" caps at a auto parts store, they fit perfectly.

Jimmy,
If you have an EFI bike you DO NOT cap off those hoses on the throttle housing (fake carbies)
If you do the bike will run ordinary.
To try and reset the engine light, let the bike reach operating temp then switch off and let cool, do this 3 times and it should reset unless there is a continuing problem.

Davo, can you tell me why? I've been told by techs at 2 different dealers that I should, but I'm open to other opinions.

I'll try the reset.

I'm beginning to appreciate the ease of adjusting my carbs even more although there are pluses to EFI.

Some further info regarding my previous post.

The decel popping didn't bother me, but I was told by a couple of tech types that removing the AI would let the engine run at optimum. Not more power, just a tiny bit better abd able to breathe better. That's why I removed the AI.

The 2 vacuum caps that come with the AI removal kit are too large for the tubes on the throttle bodies of the EFI bikes. They do fit carb models. That's where my air leak was. 2 smaller vacuum caps fixed that.

Determining that Don's pipe mods left the pipes more restrictive than TORs came from lengthy discussions with my brother (not a Triumph owner, he's into MGs, but a very knowledgeable auto person) and much email correspondence with Mark Zimmerman, MC Tech book author and Tech writer for MC Cruiser magazine.

I've been sans bike this past week, but will have it back with me after today. I'll do the AI removal on Monday or Tuesday. I'll try to get the engine light to reset using Davo's method (which worked once for me already) and if that doesn't work, I'll do the resistor install per the write up on the TriumphRat.net forum.

I'll post results when I'm done.

Jim, reading your posts sounds like the problems I iniatially had, was it the AI, was it the exhausts, was it the mapping, I was really tearing my hair out until I bypassed the 02 sensors.
What was fooling me was I would some times start the bike up in the morning and head up to the highway (about 5 miles) everything would be fine, get on the freeway and ride for about 100 miles with no problem, until I arrived at the next town and had to reduce my speed and go through the gears, thats when it started coughing and sometimes stalling on take off with an iratical idle.
Unbeknowns to me the 02 sensors had gone into closed loop which isn't noticeable you at freeway speeds.
So then I just limited myself to some local rides and it became more apparent that after about 10 miles it always started running like a dog after starting and idling fine.
Once I bypassed the 02 sensors my nightmare was over.
The way it has been explained to me is that regardless of what base map you have in the ECU it will still gather information from its sensors and vary its mapping accordingly (within limits), so initailly the bike runs fine then gets a message from the 02 sensors saying it doesn't like the mixtures (due to AI being removed and a free flowing exhaust)so goes into closed loop, I suspect this could be a cause of a constant engine light appearing.
The only way I know of bypassing the 02 sensors is with the tuneboy program.
Keep us updated on your situation, meanwhile I will try and contact Wayne (tuneboy) and see if he can do a technical write up on ECU's and their workings.
Cheers
Davo

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... meanwhile I will try and contact Wayne (tuneboy) and see if he can do a technical write up on ECU's and their workings.

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That would be awesome.

FWIW

When I went to leave from home last Sunday to go back to SC (work), the AI kit wasn't where I thought it would be. Didn't have time to look further, so didn't do anything to the bike this week. I'm sure I'll find it this weekend when I get home, and do the removal next Monday. If I can't find it, I'll just get another one, but will have to wait till it arrives.

Dave, the only times the bike ran bad was A)when I had it re-mapped after removing the AI and B) after I had the stock map reloaded but the AI was screwed with by the tech who had done the 1st re-map. I think it will run fine after I remove the AI again. The only issue will be the light, and if 3 cold to hot idle starts don't turn the light out, I'll install a resistor so the ECU will think the AI sensor is working.

Will update after I get done.

I quit. For now, anyway.

Removed the AI again Monday. Got everything back together, bike wouldn't start. It would crank, but not turn over. Tried till the battery quit.

So I re-installed the AI stuff, again, and the bike runs fine. I'm too frustrated to try again right away. So I'll wait till the riding slows down some during the winter, then perhaps try again.

I know how frustrating things like that can be - when they just won't fly no matter what you try. But the satisifaction of finally solving it is inversely proportionate to the frustration experienced.

Did you ever disable the O2 sensors like Davo said - apparently it's an essential step with AI removal on an EFI bike? Of course you need Tuneboy to do the disabling - so that's more $$$. But the upside is being able do your own tuning and diagnostics.

Is there a problem simply blocking the rubber hose which is connected to the Air Injector pipe next to the spark plugs? Seems an appropriately sized ball bearing or marble would do the job? I sort of got this jist from a previous posting, however others seem to sugegst this will not work. Why not?