 Headset Adjustment?
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Check Pants
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OP
Check Pants
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Folks:
My '02, which is at the 30k mark had a pretty strong headshake last year. I installed a new tire this Spring but was disapointed that did not resolve the problem completely.
Now, I'm wondering if I would benefit by repacking, adjusting or replacing my headset. On a lift yesterday, I feel no binding or rough spots from side to side. It also doesn't feel loose fore and aft. (to me, but I have no perspective)
The book shows two slim tools use to lock the headset after doing the adjustment under the top nut. I don't recall hearing this process ever mentioned here.
Has anyone done any maintenance to their headset? If so, where can you get tools. Are they repacked with grease or replaced?
Al
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Re: Headset Adjustment?
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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You torque the nut for the steering bearings, then the slim tool you see is a wrench that you use to hold that nut while you tighten down the jam nut on top of it.I haven't done mine yet either but I have been thinking of going to the tapered bearings, if I have been reading correctly we have ball bearings in there stock.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Headset Adjustment?
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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Maybe the new tire is defective. What did you install?
'08 America Blue/White; Custom Headlamps, Custom Lowers, Clearview 20", Bafflectomy
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Re: Headset Adjustment?
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Check Pants
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Quote:
Maybe the new tire is defective. What did you install?
No, a shop did the work. He said the previous tire was way out of balance, so I assumed this would do the job.
Does anyone have these headset tools? Tapered bearing also sound better. Any info on those?
This is a little discussed topic!
Al
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Re: Headset Adjustment?
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Joined: Sep 2007
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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I recently upgraded to tapered bearings in my '02. It completely resolved a persistent headshake issue i was having. Only around $50.00 in parts, and no problem getting it done without special wrenches. Money well spent! 
Howbeit when He, the Spirit of truth, is come; He will guide you in all truth:
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Re: Headset Adjustment?
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Quote:
I recently upgraded to tapered bearings in my '02. It completely resolve a persistent headshake issue i was having. Only around $50.00 in parts, and no problem getting it done without special wrenches.
Money well spent!
Part#'s and supplier?
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Re: Headset Adjustment?
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Check Pants
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Check Pants
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Quote:
Quote:
I recently upgraded to tapered bearings in my '02. It completely resolve a persistent headshake issue i was having. Only around $50.00 in parts, and no problem getting it done without special wrenches.
Money well spent!
Part#'s and supplier?
Heck yes man! So, they just replace the stock bearings? Are they packed like auto wheel bearings? Any pix if you have any.
Al
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Re: Headset Adjustment?
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Joined: Feb 2007
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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Yes they are just like the auto wheel bearings. I think it6's in the tech vault but I have it written down too and here it is.1995 Honda CBR600RR, Top is ID 26mm OD 47mm width 15mm
Bottom is ID 30mm OD 55mm width 17mm
Bearing numbers are Koyo SAC2647-1 for the top and SAC3055-1 for the bottom.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Headset Adjustment?
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Joined: Jan 2006
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
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That's a shame. I wonder how many cars we would buy if the steering went out in 20k or so.
I am wondering if Triumph would stand behind that.
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
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Re: Headset Adjustment?
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Check Pants
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Those are different product numbers from what I found in the tech vault, are they all the same? The sizes are identical. I think the Honda parts number would be easier to source thru Bike Bandit, etc.? Can anyone offer some tech/install tips. I don't understand why the special locking nut tools would still be used to install these? Or, does the tapered style eliminate the necessity to properly adjust them? Quote:
From member Grzegorz
Headstock bearings replacement tappered ones
-32005X/26 Special 26mm Bore Narrow Section Steering Head Set Taper Roller Bearing 26x47x15mm
-32006JR Narrow Section Steering Head Set Taper Roller Bearing 30x55x17mm
Quote:
Yes they are just like the auto wheel bearings. I think it6's in the tech vault but I have it written down too and here it is.1995 Honda CBR600RR, Top is ID 26mm OD 47mm width 15mm
Bottom is ID 30mm OD 55mm width 17mm
Bearing numbers are Koyo SAC2647-1 for the top and SAC3055-1 for the bottom.
Al
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Re: Headset Adjustment?
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Check Pants
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Bike Bandit offers three '95 CBR600's but none are the RR model. Thoughts? Edit: It looks like Bike Bandit only carries front fork parts for this year bike. Besides my local dealer, is there a source for the Honda or brand bearings? http://www.bikebandit.com/honda-motorcycle-parts-1995/oem-parts
Last edited by ssjones; 05/24/2009 9:20 AM.
Al
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Re: Headset Adjustment?
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Check Pants
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An interesting web article referencing these bearings on a Honda. Do we need the seals he mentions? http://www.peterverdonedesigns.com/6000RR-CRASH.htm
Al
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Re: Headset Adjustment?
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Check Pants
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Check Pants
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Found another Honda online parts, but no Koyo reference in the parts description or sizes. They also don't offer a '95 CBR600RR model. Is that year correct? http://www.shspowersports.com/fiche_section_detail.asp
Al
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Re: Headset Adjustment?
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Joined: Sep 2007
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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Quote:
Part#'s and supplier?
I got them here. http://www.bellacorse.com/bcc166.htm
You can probably get them from other vendors, too. I have lost my notes on mfr. part #
They're made by AllBallsRacing. http://www.goallballs.com/home.asp
Howbeit when He, the Spirit of truth, is come; He will guide you in all truth:
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Re: Headset Adjustment?
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Check Pants
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mrt202 bought his kit from Bellacorse. I'm not a fan of that vendor, but he buys them from AllBallsRacing.com. They have our bike listed: http://www.goallballs.com/SHOP/shopexd.asp?pagefrom=Ret&id=589I'll order on Tuesday and report back!
Al
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Re: Headset Adjustment?
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Joined: Feb 2007
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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I took my info from the tech vault a while ago, I gave the dimensions too. The part numbers should be easily cross referenced to a different brand.
Al , when you report back don't forget the part numbers and manufacturer. Be good info for the tech vault and my book.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Headset Adjustment?
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Check Pants
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Yes, I'll be sure to take some pix as well. Thanks! It's surprising this doesn't come up more often, or at least to pack/adjust the OEM parts. Our bikes are getting some age/miles on them (just passed 30k yesterday). Quote:
I took my info from the tech vault a while ago, I gave the dimensions too. The part numbers should be easily cross referenced to a different brand.
Al , when you report back don't forget the part numbers and manufacturer. Be good info for the tech vault and my book.
Al
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Re: Headset Adjustment?
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Joined: Feb 2007
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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Quote:
Yes, I'll be sure to take some pix as well. Thanks!
It's surprising this doesn't come up more often, or at least to pack/adjust the OEM parts. Our bikes are getting some age/miles on them (just passed 30k yesterday).
Quote:
I took my info from the tech vault a while ago, I gave the dimensions too. The part numbers should be easily cross referenced to a different brand.
Al , when you report back don't forget the part numbers and manufacturer. Be good info for the tech vault and my book.
I think the check torque and grease is supposed to be done at the 12,000 mile service.I didn't since mine is fine and going to go with the tapered soon.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Headset Adjustment?
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Joined: Dec 2006
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Oil Expert
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Oil Expert
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I'm reading with interest guys cos I haven't done any maintenance on this one yet, which is probably a bit of concern I guess. It's just that I haven't felt anything in my steering to suggest problems. Any further info on this one will be much appreciated by me, so thanks for your efforts. 
Staintune Pipes, K&N Pods, 45 pilots, TBS needles and 145 mains.
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Re: Headset Adjustment?
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Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
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I adjusted mine at about 16,00 and just greased and adjusted them at 34,000.
I used a waterproof grease that is used in bicycle cranksets and headsets, seems to work OK, but it also seems to be "adjustable" grease, that is, after initial adjustment, I had to adjust it a couple more times as it worked in.
No biggy on the slim wrench, you can make one from a piece of strap, or you can grind down a pair of channel locks or a wrench. Or you can use a brake spring plier (that's what I did) to hold the adjusting nut while you tighten the lock nut with a crescent wrench.
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Headset Adjustment?
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Check Pants
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OP
Check Pants
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Ah-ha, I knew someone had to be doing the PM on this item! So it was you! I was thinking about making a set from a piece of metal strap. Any idea what size these things are? I'm ordering the tapered bearings this morning and per the comments, I won't need any special tools. Quote:
I adjusted mine at about 16,00 and just greased and adjusted them at 34,000.
I used a waterproof grease that is used in bicycle cranksets and headsets, seems to work OK, but it also seems to be "adjustable" grease, that is, after initial adjustment, I had to adjust it a couple more times as it worked in.
No biggy on the slim wrench, you can make one from a piece of strap, or you can grind down a pair of channel locks or a wrench. Or you can use a brake spring plier (that's what I did) to hold the adjusting nut while you tighten the lock nut with a crescent wrench.
Al
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Re: Headset Adjustment?
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,668
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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Quote:
Google yielded this today - pretty cool! Even has the proper British accent! Guessing our setup is similar, but the book doesn't describe the locking tab. Is this about the size of the install?
Part I - Removal:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRVhPmb7qXo&feature=related
Part II - Installation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQHu3t-0QEA&feature=related
Pretty good video. The procedure is the same, minus the tabbed lock washer.
Howbeit when He, the Spirit of truth, is come; He will guide you in all truth:
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Re: Headset Adjustment?
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Check Pants
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Check Pants
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Can I use a drift to hold/tighten those lock nuts like shown in the video? Or is it just using a socket as described earlier. Sorry for all the questions, I just want to be completely prepared and am still a little mystified. I'm working on the road today, but might start stripping parts this evening, the bearings should be here in a day or two from York PA. I have to figure out a way to support the handlebars/cables. I'll probably use the garage door support and some bungie cords to keep it lifted up and otu of the way. Did you pull your wheels and fork tubes separately or as one unit? Quote:
Quote:
Google yielded this today - pretty cool! Even has the proper British accent! Guessing our setup is similar, but the book doesn't describe the locking tab. Is this about the size of the install?
Part I - Removal:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRVhPmb7qXo&feature=related
Part II - Installation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQHu3t-0QEA&feature=related
Pretty good video. The procedure is the same, minus the tabbed lock washer.
Al
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Re: Headset Adjustment?
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Check Pants
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Check Pants
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Bearings on order from AllBallsRacing, seem like nice folks.
I was out eyeballing what has to be removed or worked around. Wow, those isn't exactly an easy task. The handlebars have to come off the risers and I have the wires running thru the bars. The headlight will need to be removed from the bottom triple tree. I have the driving lamps with turnsignal wires running thru that bar to the lights mounted under the lights.
I guess I'll pull the wheel, get the bars off and try working around the rest. Maybe the electrical stuff will just dangle nicely. Probably won't be that easy....
Al
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Re: Headset Adjustment?
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Joined: Sep 2007
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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A socket worked fine on all of the nuts. I didn't use the the actual torque values listed for our bikes, just kinda went by feel. I tightened the adjuster nut whilst turning the yoke back and forth until it was rather tight (to seat the new races), then backed off and re-tightened til i just felt some resistance and then put the locknut on. I'm not saying you should do it that way, just that it worked for me.  Oh yeah, it was a PITA to get everything out of the way (bars and cables and such), and it took me a few tries to get all the wires and cables routed correctly. I think i must've pulled the top yoke off two or three times! That's how it goes sometimes! 
Last edited by mrt202; 05/26/2009 10:39 PM.
Howbeit when He, the Spirit of truth, is come; He will guide you in all truth:
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Re: Headset Adjustment?
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Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
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Don't know what size off hand, I used a crescent hamm....I mean wrench  . The top nut is 30mm It's a pretty quick job, maybe you could have someone hold your bar assembly out of the way. That way you won't need to disconnect anything. I just leave mine attached to the top clamp and pull it off as a unit -Bars, risers clamp- and let it hang.
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Headset Adjustment?
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Joined: May 2008
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Adjunct
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Adjunct
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A little trick I've been using on any job where there is a lot of things going in specific order or placement e.g., brake springs on cars or vacuum lines, or cable placement, as in this case, take pictures. Digital cameras are the mechanics memories in a can. Then when you are ready to reassemble your project, take a look at the picture first and get a fresh mental picture of where you are going and reference as needed along the way. Saves time, and the hassle of taking it apart two or three times before you get it back in the right order.  Just trying to help
Chip Sciarra "07" America, N.C.Switch Blade windshield, Moto Lights, Tri. Off Road pipes
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Re: Headset Adjustment?
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Check Pants
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Thank guys. I was thinking once I get it removed, they should pop on quickly. Another person will be handy.
I'm sure it will make more sense when I have it apart.
Adjusting to feel is what the web/book says.
Thanks for the tips!
Al
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Re: Headset Adjustment?
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Joined: Sep 2007
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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Quote:
Adjusting to feel is what the web/book says.
What can i say. I'm a guy. I actually never even bothered to read the procedure.
When all else fails, then i read the directions. 
Howbeit when He, the Spirit of truth, is come; He will guide you in all truth:
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Re: Headset Adjustment?
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Joined: Aug 2006
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Adjunct
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Adjunct
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With 46,000km mine are due for adjustment or replacement as well, proberly get some powder coating done at the same time, thanks for all the info, gonna go tapered bearings as well... With the forks off gonna upend them and get all the grunge oil out and give them a birthday as well, have a leaking seal, no doubt due to been strapped down in a container on it's 2 voyages across the Pacific... Might as well get as many jobs done while it's apart...
05 SM Neon Blue/Black. Thunder Bike Cams & Pipes & Flowed Head. AI&Snork removed, Airbox Mods, 135mains, 42/17T, 140x80x17" TBS Front Wheel
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Re: Headset Adjustment?
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Check Pants
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The bike is on the lift, with forks removed. I took that opportunity to take them down and re-buff them on the machine. (polished the forks two years ago).
With the wife's help, I'll put in the new bearings this evening. Pictures to follow.
Al
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Re: Headset Adjustment?
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Check Pants
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OK - Help!
The top nut is off. The two adjusting nuts are on top and I have no tool that can break them loose. My largest socket is 36 mm and they are larger than that. They are also slightly larger than my large adjustable wrench.
How did you guys break these loose? (and get them tight later)
Al
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Re: Headset Adjustment?
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Joined: Sep 2007
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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I don't recall what size the nuts were, only that a socket will remove and install them.
Howbeit when He, the Spirit of truth, is come; He will guide you in all truth:
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Re: Headset Adjustment?
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Check Pants
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Check Pants
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OK - I'm officially in way over my head so all help is appreciated - Got the two top nuts off and pulled the stem (ground down the stop on my large adjustable for more clearance. Here's what the OEM bearing and seat looks like.  Here's the new, tapered bearing. It doesn't go all the way down to the bottom of the tree, no clearnace about 1" above the bottom. Also - Does the old seat/seal get removed? It seems stuck. Should the new bearing go all the way down? Do I have the right bearing? As you can see, the new seat goes all the way down, but sits oddly on the old seat/seal. Which was does the new seal go?  If I get this figured out, which of the old hardware is reused on the top end? (spacer, washer??)
Last edited by ssjones; 05/28/2009 7:21 PM.
Al
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Re: Headset Adjustment?
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Check Pants
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My neck stem bottom measures 30 mm. The ID of the new bearing looks maybe 1 mm smaller and just won't fit over the stem, where it gets slightly larger at the bottom.
The top bearing fits snugly - it came with two seals, not sure which way they orient.
Al
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Re: Headset Adjustment?
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Joined: Feb 2007
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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The race should press into the frame after you knock out the old one that the balls ran in. In this pic The part you are trying to press to the tree (race) should be pressed into the frame after the old has been knocked out. You have the bearing upside down.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Headset Adjustment?
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Check Pants
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Ah-ha! That would explain my dilemma... So, this part has to be knocked out?  Than, press in the new stuff oriented like this?  Does the same process occur on the top? These parts came out of the top bearing:  Quote:
The race should press into the frame after you knock out the old one that the balls ran in. In this pic
The part you are trying to press to the tree (race) should be pressed into the frame after the old has been knocked out. You have the bearing upside down.
Al
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Re: Headset Adjustment?
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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Yep, same on both ends and the narrow parts of the bearings face each other.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Headset Adjustment?
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Check Pants
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Quote:
Yep, same on both ends and the narrow parts of the bearings face each other.
The lower bearing race still won't fit into the neck. I'll have to call All Balls tomorrow. In a Google search, a recent thread came up on TriumphRat.net where the parts sent out by All Balls for Triumphs was incorrect. Great, so my bike stays bungie-corded to the garage door, dangling (well, up on the stand).
Al
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