 Any mortgage experts out there?
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Loquacious
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OP
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Since my wife and I are having our first baby in September, and I just took a 10% pay cut at work, I want to refinance my mortgage. Problem is, my house is worth about 20-25 grand less than what I paid for it in Dec. 07. I have excellent credit and have not missed a payment. Obama is bailing everyone else out with their mortgages, why am I having so much trouble getting help? Do I need to skip a couple payments before I get help? Do I just wait and pray that home values rise this summer? How do I get my piece of the pie? I pay taxes,(a lot of taxes) when will my tax dollars start working for ME and not everyone else!? Or am I just screwed?
06 America 904
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Re: Any mortgage experts out there?
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Adjunct
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Your just screwed.....welcome to the middle class, the pack animals for every deadbeat, wall street investment thief, etc. etc. Stings doesn't it....I bet all of us on this forum pay lots O taxes.  Seriously, I seem to recall some number you could call...not one of those something for nothing outfits, an actual gubment help line for mortgage folks. I will dig around and see what I can scare up.
Ezcue
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Re: Any mortgage experts out there?
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Loquacious
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ahh yes taxes, hope you guys are not worse then mass
(Former)05 BA tbike pipes, ai removed, Freak, mikuni hsr 42's, 904, ported/polished head, 1mm oversized valves
NOW-2010 silver and black tbird
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Re: Any mortgage experts out there?
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Adjunct
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Check with your existing mortgage company for a Loan Modification Workout package. There are possibilities for lower interest, longer terms, or both.
Ride like a Combat Fighter Pilot
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Re: Any mortgage experts out there?
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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You must be one of the evil rich people. Otherwise, under Obamas "plan", we'd be paying your mortgage for you. 
Howbeit when He, the Spirit of truth, is come; He will guide you in all truth:
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Re: Any mortgage experts out there?
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
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20-25K less is not that much on a 300k house but is huge on a 100k house. Depends on your equity and your ability to pay. Telling the bank you can't pay for it usually is a bad way to start a loan process. Please do not get confused about bailout and helping people. There is no relationship. The bailout money is to help the banks stay in business as people default on loans. Its not for you if you are current. You are just another consumer taking the hit for bankers and buyers acting badly. To be kind, if you can make the payments at 100% of income you can make them at 90%. Cut back on other stuff, figure out what is important and keep your house. Short sell a car, have a garage sale, sell the Triumph. No! you should not miss payments or do a short sale if your credit is good and you can pay for it. In ten years you will still be kicking yourself as your old house sells for more than what you paid. It will recover its value over time. In the meantime, its more than a building, its your home. Put a price tag on that.
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
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Re: Any mortgage experts out there?
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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Quote:
I seem to recall some number you could call...not one of those something for nothing outfits, an actual gubment help line for mortgage folks. I will dig around and see what I can scare up.
I read a newspaper article last week about those mortgage help lines the govt has set up. Apparently, it's all a front. People are complaining that they waited literally hours on the line, only to be disconnected or told to call back.
'08 America Blue/White; Custom Headlamps, Custom Lowers, Clearview 20", Bafflectomy
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Re: Any mortgage experts out there?
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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Quote:
It will recover its value over time.
 
'08 America Blue/White; Custom Headlamps, Custom Lowers, Clearview 20", Bafflectomy
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Re: Any mortgage experts out there?
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3/4 Throttle
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3/4 Throttle
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Refinancing may or may not improve your situation. Your best option is as Ron suggested.. make adjustments and keep paying on your existing loan until values come back up. If you have a 15 year mortgage, you might ask the bank if you can convert it into a 30 year one to lower your monthly payments, but you will most likely wind up paying a higher interest rate and possibly additional closing costs.
And regardless of how amusing Jack thinks the statement is, the value of your home will eventually rebound. The market got overly heated for a bit there and needed this 'adjustment' to get things back to normal. Hang in there and just keep doing what you are doing.
Cheers,
Brad
To be old and wise, you must first be young and stupid.
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Re: Any mortgage experts out there?
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Loquacious
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OP
Loquacious
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I've got a 30 yr fixed, on a 190k loan. I called my mortgage company to try to get it modified, they said I didn't qualify. I guess all I can do is keep making the payments and hope for the best. I'll get a part time job before selling the bike!
06 America 904
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Re: Any mortgage experts out there?
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Loquacious
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OP
Loquacious
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ahh yes taxes, hope you guys are not worse then mass
Taxes here are insane, I pay 4300 a year in property taxes on a house apparently worth 167K. Sales tax is 8.25% here and 10.25% in Chicago where I work. Maybe we have to pay extra for all the FBI agents to look after our top notch elected officials. I've heard Mass was bad for taxes as well.
06 America 904
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Re: Any mortgage experts out there?
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
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Jackson, you surely do contribute to the old saying "Keep Austin Weird".
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
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Re: Any mortgage experts out there?
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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Well Brad, you have to remember that Jackson recently watched the History Channel's big "Nostradamus/Aztec" week of programing where they said the world was all going to end on December 21, 2012!!! And soooo, he might be thinking that our housing values won't rebound before that date, and thus, that's why he might find that statement of Ron's a bit amusing, ya see!   (BUT, I got'a tell ya somethin' here...while I'm personally puttin' absolutely NO stock whatsoever in what that crazy old bearded monk OR what those pre-columbian Native Americans down there might've thought, I AM thinkin' that it's gonna be WAY past 2012 before we see much of a return to those "halcyon days" of "flippin' houses" for fun and profit again, dude!!!)
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: Any mortgage experts out there?
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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OH...and I forgot to add...I think both you Brad, and you Ron, have given Scott here some darn good advice here!!! 
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: Any mortgage experts out there?
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Loquacious
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OP
Loquacious
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Where are my manners, forgot to say Thanks guys for the advice.
06 America 904
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Re: Any mortgage experts out there?
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
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You are very welcome. When my daughter stops to visit, she wonders downstairs in the morning, makes something to eat and chills out. She then always comments on how no matter how long she is gone she stays connected to the house. She sleeps well, feels comfortable and secure.
Somehow, over years, they can become more than just a building. I don't know why, I just know they do. They are worth fighting to keep.
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
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Re: Any mortgage experts out there?
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Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
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Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Any mortgage experts out there?
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
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I have been in mortgages as a broker, loan officer and processor. Which company are you with now? Most of the biggies (like Wells Fargo where I'm working now) have just started a new program of giving people with decent credit easy refi's at low rates. Check with your current mortgage holder, if they are not helpful WF even has a plan for non-WF mortgagees. PM me if you want to know more.
We all like to think of ourselves as rugged individualists. But when push comes to shove most of us are sheep who do what we are told. Worst of all, a lot of us become unpaid agents of whoever is controlling the agenda by enforcing the current dogma on the few rugged individualists who actually exist.
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Re: Any mortgage experts out there?
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Adjunct
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Adjunct
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Quote:
...the world was all going to end on December 21, 2012!!!
If those zany Aztecs had used a larger rock for their calendar they would not have run out of room at 2012.
2018 FLHCS
2014 Surly Straggler - 16,000 miles and counting!
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Re: Any mortgage experts out there?
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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Quote:
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...the world was all going to end on December 21, 2012!!!
If those zany Aztecs had used a larger rock for their calendar they would not have run out of room at 2012.
Now that's REALLY funny, Leno!!! That's EXACTLY what I was thinkin' when I was watchin' that show TOO!!!
But then again, when they said good ol' Nostry said somethin' like..."And the winds will become as one great bellows, then the King and his court shall forever be thrown to the four corners of the earth!"...THAT'S when I started to wonder if maybe the ol' guy might've been on to somethin' afterall!!! 
(...but then I remembered the earth is round and doesn't have any corners, and that blew ANY chance that that old fart could'a been right...RIGHT???!!!)
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: Any mortgage experts out there?
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Is that the first line of their defense that's turning you down? You can try to go higher up the chain of command by asking for a supervisor.
From what I understand, the Obama program is only good for up to 105% of current mortgage to current home value. But don't take no for an answer, and keep calling. Who knows, you might eventually find a sympathetic ear.
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Re: Any mortgage experts out there?
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Loquacious
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I'm with fifth-third. Yeah, pretty much first line of defense. The guy told me it would have to appraise for 181k that would be 105% LTV. Freddie Mac website has it at 167. It's just funny that when I bought it less than a year and a half ago it had to be appraised for what I paid right? I can have someone out to do an appraisal but it's going to cost me $200, and if it dosen't work out in my favor, I'm out 200 bucks.
06 America 904
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Re: Any mortgage experts out there?
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Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
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You could try running your own comparisons if your assesor has a web site with that information. It's all public record what properties have sold for.
Check the recent selling prices of similar properties in the same area to see if they are giving you accurate information.
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Any mortgage experts out there?
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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Quote:
And regardless of how amusing Jack thinks the statement is, the value of your home will eventually rebound.
There's every chance that won't happen in our lifetimes, and even if the appraisal improves over the next ten years or so, it may be with dollars so inflated as to render the property worth much less in real terms than it is today. What I found humorous is that many folks (especially Obama) are saying this about practically everything.
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The market got overly heated for a bit there and needed this 'adjustment' to get things back to normal.
In fact, the market has been overheated for many years, and what we're seeing is not merely a correction that will soon resume its upward trend. Rather, it is a correction on the heels of a downward trend, and that trend would have been visible and obvious at least ten years ago if not for credit policies that conveyed loans to ever-less-qualified borrowers.
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Hang in there and just keep doing what you are doing.
I agree with this, but no one should think residential property (with extremely rare exceptions) is still an investment in the future. It is now merely an expenditure, and the reasons for buying and paying off must be considered in that light.
'08 America Blue/White; Custom Headlamps, Custom Lowers, Clearview 20", Bafflectomy
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Re: Any mortgage experts out there?
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Loquacious
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Yeah, some of the houses in my neighborhood that have sold recently have been killing me. I personally think mine is nicer than those, but who knows. I've been checking zillow.com, and a couple others, all seem to be in the same ballpark.
06 America 904
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Re: Any mortgage experts out there?
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Loquacious
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OP
Loquacious
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Quote:
Quote:
And regardless of how amusing Jack thinks the statement is, the value of your home will eventually rebound.
There's every chance that won't happen in our lifetimes, and even if the appraisal improves over the next ten years or so, it may be with dollars so inflated as to render the property worth much less in real terms than it is today. What I found humorous is that many folks (especially Obama) are saying this about practically everything.
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The market got overly heated for a bit there and needed this 'adjustment' to get things back to normal.
In fact, the market has been overheated for many years, and what we're seeing is not merely a correction that will soon resume its upward trend. Rather, it is a correction on the heels of a downward trend, and that trend would have been visible and obvious at least ten years ago if not for credit policies that conveyed loans to ever-less-qualified borrowers.
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Hang in there and just keep doing what you are doing.
I agree with this, but no one should think residential property (with extremely rare exceptions) is still an investment in the future. It is now merely an expenditure, and the reasons for buying and paying off must be considered in that light.
Thanks, Jack for making me feel better. Now that I'm a homeowner, I will not have equity for many years, if ever, and will be stuck in the first house I ever bought for years and years to come because of bad timing. I'm going to go out back now and shoot myself! 
06 America 904
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Re: Any mortgage experts out there?
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Joined: Aug 2005
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3/4 Throttle
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3/4 Throttle
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Quote:
It's just funny that when I bought it less than a year and a half ago it had to be appraised for what I paid right?
Generally.. but appraisal value is based on what comparable properties in the area have sold for within the last few months, not years. Like Bill said, you can perform an initial appraisal yourself. Search for your local county/city property appraiser web site where you can get the particulars on your property. They should have a search feature for recent sales that you can use. Try to find properties as close to your home as possible that are as similar to yours as possible (square footage, construction, year built, extra features like a pool, etc..) that have sold within the last 2-3 months. Try to locate at least 3-5 such properties, discard any unusually high or low sales prices, and make sure the ones you use are listed as 'qualified' sales according to the property appraisers office.
I do this all the time, sometimes on a dozen or more different properties a month, and have always wound up with numbers within a couple thousand of what the 'professional' appraisers come up with.
Cheers,
Brad
To be old and wise, you must first be young and stupid.
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Re: Any mortgage experts out there?
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Joined: Aug 2005
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3/4 Throttle
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3/4 Throttle
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Quote:
Quote:
And regardless of how amusing Jack thinks the statement is, the value of your home will eventually rebound.
There's every chance that won't happen in our lifetimes, and even if the appraisal improves over the next ten years or so, it may be with dollars so inflated as to render the property worth much less in real terms than it is today.
Well, I'm already seeing property values starting to pick back up, at least here in Florida. It's still a buyers market, but the good deals are starting to get harder to find. The great thing about real estate is that 1) it's a fixed resource and 2) as the population increases, so does the demand for housing.
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The market got overly heated for a bit there and needed this 'adjustment' to get things back to normal.
In fact, the market has been overheated for many years, and what we're seeing is not merely a correction that will soon resume its upward trend. Rather, it is a correction on the heels of a downward trend, and that trend would have been visible and obvious at least ten years ago if not for credit policies that conveyed loans to ever-less-qualified borrowers.
For years, the average home appreciation was somewhere between 5-10% depending on location (1980 nationwide average was 6.1%). It wasn't until a few years ago that they jumped off the charts, peaking around the first quarter of 2006. Those were great times, and I was flipping foreclosed homes faster than I could buy them and for stupid amounts of profit. The trend may be downward currently, however if you track the market over the past several decades, the overall trend is upward and always has been. The current situation is no different, and it creates a great opportunity to pick up some fantastic properties at below market value.
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Hang in there and just keep doing what you are doing.
I agree with this, but no one should think residential property (with extremely rare exceptions) is still an investment in the future. It is now merely an expenditure, and the reasons for buying and paying off must be considered in that light.
I highly disagree. Real estate has been and will continue to be one of the most solid investments you can make if you make rational decisions on what to buy and when.
Cheers,
Brad
To be old and wise, you must first be young and stupid.
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Re: Any mortgage experts out there?
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Joined: Feb 2007
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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I'm lucky in the real estate aspect. I bought 3 acres of commercial property 2 months before it went commercial for $50,000. I own 400' of road frontage on a main road way. I should make a good profit when it sells even in todays market.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Any mortgage experts out there?
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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Yep! And the secret is always purchase a house which you think you can enjoy living in for at least a decade or so. You see Scott, back in 1990 my wife and I purchased a modest home just before the previous bubble was about to burst. Five years later our home was worth approximately 70% of what we had paid for it, and of course was extremely "upside-down" at that point in time. HOWEVER, we really liked our home, and maybe we've been lucky, but almost every neighbor and all of their children have been nothing but friendly and pleasant these past almost 2 decades, and so it really didn't matter to us how much it was "worth" at that time. Well, five short years after that, its market value was back up again to what we had paid for it orginially, and then five years after that it was pushin' twice that figure. And then, a couple of years after THAT, and just before this present bubble burst, it was "worth" some absolutely ridiculous amount o' moolah, and now is back down to about where it was about five years ago. And, contrary to Jackson's doom and gloom scenario where he thinks we'll all be pushin' wheelbarrels full of cash to the nearest market in order to buy a loaf o' bread(ala the germans in post-WWI), IF you like your home, then all ya have to do is try like the devil keep it, 'CAUSE, I'm tellin' here buddy, give it another decade and your home will be worth a heck of a lot more than its "worth" now!!! (in other words, I do believe the operative word here is..."Cyclical")
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: Any mortgage experts out there?
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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Buying a house should never be looked at as an investment. You need a house to live in, and put all your stuff.
Case in point: Between 1905 and 2005 (100 years) the average house in the United States increased in value (after you discount inflation) only 0.4% per year. During that same time period the stock market increased (after you discount inflation) 7% per year. So over the long term a house is a very poor vehicle for investing your money.
I got this information from the Wall Street Journal.
Tom
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin, US author, diplomat, inventor, physicist, politician, & printer (1706 - 1790)
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Re: Any mortgage experts out there?
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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Quote:
Thanks, Jack for making me feel better. Now that I'm a homeowner, I will not have equity for many years, if ever, and will be stuck in the first house I ever bought for years and years to come
Are you kidding?? Millions of people all over the world would be ecstatic to be "stuck" like you are. I don't like it either, but the alternatives are far worse, as lots of Americans are finding out firsthand. I say be glad for what you've got (and do whatever you can to keep it).
'08 America Blue/White; Custom Headlamps, Custom Lowers, Clearview 20", Bafflectomy
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Re: Any mortgage experts out there?
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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People seem to be worried about inflation, and rightfully so, but inflation always favors debtors. You'll be paying back far less "real" money then you borrowed.
It does seem like this is getting political and there's plenty of blame to go around. It is possible that the stimulus package may help our economey without a direct and proportionate inflation coefficient.
Remember what people thought when John Keynes advised then president Roosevelt to run a defecit. And yet that was exactly what got us out of the depression and allowed our economey to thrive. Of course the govt. spending was WWII. I'm not advising that.
Strangler
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Re: Any mortgage experts out there?
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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Quote:
inflation always favors debtors.
Or more accurately, inflation has in the past favored debtors. That's not a guarantee it will always do so, particularly in an economy shedding millions of jobs and producing little or no increase in income for the majority of those who remain employed.
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Remember what people thought when John Keynes advised then president Roosevelt to run a defecit. And yet that was exactly what got us out of the depression and allowed our economey to thrive.
This isn't the Depression. We are in the midst of an economic collapse based on a real loss of real wealth to other nations. Short-term bridges buy time, but that's of little use without an internal, self-sustaining mechanism for the production of wealth. Western governments have so far failed to address this core issue.
'08 America Blue/White; Custom Headlamps, Custom Lowers, Clearview 20", Bafflectomy
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Re: Any mortgage experts out there?
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
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Quote:
There's every chance that won't happen in our lifetimes, and even if the appraisal improves over the next ten years or so, it may be with dollars so inflated as to render the property worth much less in real terms than it is today.
If the dollars get inflated, which I agree will happen, his mortgage numbers stay the same. It matters not one bit if inflated or deflated dollars pay off the house. He owes the same finite number of dollars on it.
With slow growth his house will recover maybe at 1-2% a year. Well, in 10 years its back to its par value as now it is off about 20%.
With inflation due to the weak dollar its value could explode if salaries keep pace as in the 70s. Ya see, with inflation it takes more dollars to buy stuff. Hehe, that is why they call it that.
If it doesn't happen in his lifetime, so? I don't get it? I don't recall him posting that he is a real estate speculator looking to be the next Donald. Its about a house and a home. If it doesn't happen in 30 years so? He still owns his home by then.
Jack, get your history right please. The first mistaken bailouts where in November, 120 days after the Sec of Treas. said the economy is fine. The crash was official in October, and the carnage was done from 2000 to 2006. Alan Greenspan begged congress in 2003 to get a handle on housing as it would be a catastrophe if it went unchecked. Now I could ask who had control of all three houses in 2003 but it would never, ever, be their fault? That is why our friends house has tanked. To blame it on a guy who has been in charge for 3mos. is like blaming the cop because you were speeding. Your outcry and righteous indignation is 5 years late, learn stuff faster please.
When flawed ideology replaces deductive reasoning eventually all thought processes end and lock step behavior begins. Its very hard to undo that. Please, for your own good, turn Sean off and go back to listening to music.
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
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Re: Any mortgage experts out there?
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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Quote:
Quote:
There's every chance that won't happen in our lifetimes, and even if the appraisal improves over the next ten years or so, it may be with dollars so inflated as to render the property worth much less in real terms than it is today.
If the dollars get inflated, which I agree will happen, his mortgage numbers stay the same. It matters not one bit if inflated or deflated dollars pay off the house. He owes the same finite number of dollars on it.
The subject was value of the property, not how he would pay for it. Since you've broached the issue of the latter though, perhaps we should discuss how an American will pay off a fixed-dollar mortgage with a stagnant income when all the other necessities of life cost more. Do you have an answer for that?
'08 America Blue/White; Custom Headlamps, Custom Lowers, Clearview 20", Bafflectomy
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Re: Any mortgage experts out there?
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,647
Loquacious
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OP
Loquacious
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,647 |
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Yep! And the secret is always purchase a house which you think you can enjoy living in for at least a decade or so.
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Buying a house should never be looked at as an investment. You need a house to live in, and put all your stuff.
Don't get me wrong, I like my house, and when we bought it, I planned to be here for 10 years. Honestly though, I didn't plan on being here for 30. I wasn't looking at it as an investment per se, but I thought it was a better investment than paying rent. I think what I fear the most isn't whether or not I can afford to stay here, because I'll make the neccessary adjustments to do so. It's the fact that if I wanted to move to say, idunno, somwhere warmer, or even closer to my job. I can't. I'm tied down here. I couldn't even sell it for what I owe. However, I know it could be worse, and there are a lot of folks out there who have it a helluva lot worse than I do.
Really i'm just trying to improve my standing by lowering my payments, therefore I won't have to make such sacrifices as selling the bike, etc. I'm not even interested in selling right now, even if the market was better. I don't know all the politics behind all of it, I just know that the new administration inacted all of these programs to help out people with under-water mortgages and such, and maybe I could get some help.
Last edited by KaiserSoze; 04/21/2009 12:48 PM.
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Re: Any mortgage experts out there?
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,734
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,734 |
FWIW, my wife and I refinanced in January this year, and the appraisal didn't even mention the 2 houses down the street from us with the exact same floor plans that were foreclosures and sold for almost the same price we paid for ours back in 1999. And both those houses were bought in the last 2-3 months. Instead the appraiser only listed houses that sold under normal situations in the last 6 months.
When the mortgage lender asked me what I thought my house was worth, I said about $140k, but the appraisal came in at $160k. So you might be surprised like I was when the appraisal comes in, but I understand about not wanting to waste $200 on that. Oh, and since the housing bubble affected various areas of the country to different degrees, you should take all of what's said with a grain of salt, including me.
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Re: Any mortgage experts out there?
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,685 Likes: 20
Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,685 Likes: 20 |
Quote:
The subject was value of the property, not how he would pay for it. Since you've broached the issue of the latter though, perhaps we should discuss how an American will pay off a fixed-dollar mortgage with a stagnant income when all the other necessities of life cost more. Do you have an answer for that?
Yes, I do have an answer for that but nobody believes in not having car payments, bike payments, and credit cards. So my answers never seem to work for others. They work pretty good for me though.
In my wildest dreams I could never have a 200k mortgage ever. The banks, even today say I can easily do a high dollar house. They have got to be smoking crack. I know what I can afford, bankers don't know that. Bankers sell money, they are not my friend. They are like high end used car salesmen. Their product is money. They make money when I borrow it, that is what they do for a living. 
In this case the original post was about affording a house, not inflation. Right now we have no inflation. Interest and the cost of goods are not sliding up.
We will have stagflation in the next 18mos. that will be a serious problem.
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
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Re: Any mortgage experts out there?
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
Quote:
We will have stagflation in the next 18mos.
Hey Ron, I think you meant to say THIS in that OTHER thread, didn't ya ol' buddy?! 
(you know...that one going on right now TOO that's about everybody and his brother runnin' into deer out there on the road lately?!!!)
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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