 Re: Smokers' Tax
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Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
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Quote:
I see very little good on either side, seems everything has a hidden agenda or things attached to it. I also agree there are nannies on both sides as well as stupidity. Not speaking of either one of you guys but the general sides you guys are talking about.
See Larry.
Ian gets it 
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Smokers' Tax
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Joined: Jan 2009
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Adjunct
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Adjunct
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Quote:
Hey smokers, I have a question. Would you pay only 1 dollar a pack if it meant that you could never smoke in a public place? Always have to go outside no matter what the weather or venue?
Yes. I already won't smoke indoors or in a vehicle due to personal conviction. I go out onto the balcony to smoke at home, and outside for a puff if in public... even if the establishment permits smoking within.
But that is the quintessential theoretical question; taxes defy the axiom "What goes up must come down." Tax dollars are like crack cocaine to *our* government, and as a junkie in perpetual need of that next high, it will seize upon any excuse to wring more from us.
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Re: Smokers' Tax
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Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
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Thanks, Leno. When I smoked, I never smoked in my home, always went outside, no matter how crappy the weather.
However, I just don't know if a so called "sin tax" is a terrible thing, like Bill said, it's not a mandatory payment, it's 100% voluntary. But if the government taxed something I enjoyed to the point where it was unaffordable, like motorcycles, I would be pi$$ed.
Always remember to be yourself. Unless you suck. Then pretend to be someone else.
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Re: Smokers' Tax
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,647
Loquacious
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Loquacious
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The government needs to raise taxes. How else will they afford to continuously vote themselves raises? Not to mention their obscene pension plans. It's all about the benjamins boys.
Last edited by KaiserSoze; 04/06/2009 10:40 PM.
06 America 904
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Re: Smokers' Tax
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Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
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I haven't smoked since I was a teen, but I still have some empathy for them. Here in Iowa, they recently passed a law that there is no smoking in all business, including bars. Oh, with the EXCEPTION OF CASINO'S. It says right in the State constituition that all laws have to affect everybody equally, but the legis. has bystepped that, and now refuses to discuss it. Please, believe me, that this has absolutely nothing to do with the huge amounts of money that is collected by the State from the casino taxes. 
Fidelis et Fortis
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Re: Smokers' Tax
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Joined: Feb 2007
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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we have that law here too except it includes the casinos. I wish they had to be a certain distance from any entrance though.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Smokers' Tax
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Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
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They must have been inspired by Nevada's very similar law. And there's absolutely no doubt who runs this state 
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Smokers' Tax
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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When it started to become politically correct, our big brother decided to tax smoking with the rationale that there was a social cost to people that smoke. This money will be used to offset the cost that smokers burden our system with. In that light, I would be more than happy to pay my fair share.
However, this has morphed into a politically safe tax. Smoking is evil incarnate so it cannot be a problem for any politician to tax them. Smokers are a minority in society anyhow. Lord forbid they raise income tax or property tax or sales tax. People would be irate in the majority if that were to occur. I guess my overall point is that I do not have a problem paying a tax if it is my fair share. When it starts becoming more than that is when I have a problem.
If you want to tax my legal habit to where I no longer can afford to smoke, there goes that tax base. Now what. I'm thinking there will be no choice but to either raise the other taxes I mentioned or the vilification of some other human habit will be instituted so it becomes politically correct to tax that instead. Yeah, maybe motorcycling. Listen to all the media reports; we are all nothing but brutes, hooligans, etc. and only cost society money in the long run. Sounds crazy now but so did taxing tobacco to all to heck in 1964.
What does it matter whether I smoke inside or outside? As a smoker I always try to be considerate of other people. If somebody asks me to not smoke or move or whatever I usually have no problem with that, Of course I tend not to allow myself to be surrounded by a bunch of whiners either. It is about courtesy and politeness. I do not exist on this earth to make your life pure nirvana with nary the chance of offending you while I do not expect that for myself either. We are all different people that do different things, have different views of the world, politics, etc. If people just stopped living in this "me first" paradigm and started to show some respect for themselves and other people, we would all be better off.
Ride On!
Airguy
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You gotta' be smart to be lazy(and get a job done)
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Re: Smokers' Tax
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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My guess is the next thing you may see taxed more heavily is alcohol. I also don't drink so won't effect me but I could see that happen with all the excuses about law enforcement costs and ambulance and emergency room costs and so on. Not saying I think it is any better than the smokers current situation just seems the next logical step after the smoker.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Smokers' Tax
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Joined: Jan 2009
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Adjunct
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Adjunct
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The only popular tax is the one YOU don't have to pay. Look for the government to continue finding ways to divide the citizenry in an effort to extract even more of our money... with our tacit approval and assistance.
The non-smoker is not burdened to reaction when the smoker is taxed. The non-drinker is not burdened to reaction when the drinker is taxed. The non-shooter is not burdened to reaction when the shooter is taxed. And so it goes down the line. As long as there are more people not taxed on any given product/action than there are being taxed; the government can sell it.
Those who feel no outrage at the taxation of selected segments of the population now will no doubt change tunes when THEIR segment is tapped to fill government coffers. And since it is their segment, who of those escaping the tax will rally to their cause?
Find and support your local Tea Party this April 15th.
The tax of another you fail to oppose today may be yours tomorrow.
2018 FLHCS
2014 Surly Straggler - 16,000 miles and counting!
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Re: Smokers' Tax
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Joined: Feb 2007
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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As I have said many time I don't like it and for the very reasons you just stated. If it keeps going then it will get us all in one way or another. The shooter/ammo would get me. The smoker and or alcohol gets many of my friends. The same for any other tax they may think up. Spending needs to be cut instead and not the spending on our defence but the crazy retirement packages for the gov't people. Eliminate some of the redundant officials too that do nothing.(I don't mean all of congress  )
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Smokers' Tax
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Joined: Feb 2005
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
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Quote:
The only popular tax is the one YOU don't have to pay.
Close, Leno ol' boy, however I think this all REALLY boils down to the following: People don't like paying taxes for "causes" they can't see which benefits THEM DIRECTLY!!!
And so, let's say because I have no children(yeah...I can hear that collective sigh of relief out there folks!!!   ), does that mean I shouldn't have to pay taxes that go towards the education of other people's children? Well, call me a "soft touch" here, BUT I kind'a think that I SHOULD!!!
And ya wanna know WHY I think I should? It's 'cause the MORE uneducated MORONS there are out there in this country, the MORE I worry about the friggin' FUTURE of this country, THAT'S WHY!!!
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: Smokers' Tax
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Joined: Feb 2007
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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Judging from the next generation here and the amount we pay in school taxes I think we must all be doomed.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Smokers' Tax
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Adjunct
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Adjunct
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Quote:
werdz
My point still stands. The unaffected people in the next county over will not give a hoot about the taxes raised in YOUR county that YOU will have to pay, be it for education or whatever.
Of course when their taxes are inevitably raised there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
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Re: Smokers' Tax
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Adjunct
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Adjunct
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Quote:
Judging from the next generation here and the amount we pay in school taxes I think we must all be doomed.
But we simply must continue to shovel money into schools that teach children to feel good about themselves while eschewing practical education. Youngsters need modern and enlightened teachings such as what the color blue dreams about and how the number 8 feels about being divided by 5.
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Re: Smokers' Tax
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Joined: Feb 2005
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
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Quote:
Judging from the next generation here and the amount we pay in school taxes I think we must all be doomed.
Yep Ian! While you're absolutely WRONG about that new Norton , the above was probably the wisest observation o' yours I think I've ever read 'round here, my friend!!! 
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: Smokers' Tax
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
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Quote:
Quote:
As usual whenever traditionalists resist giving in to the strident demands of radicals they can expect to be called intolerant bigots while those making those strident demands for complete surrender to their preferences wrap themselves in the mantle of victims and call it a fight for justice. Never any doubt which side you'll come down on is there?
When these folks show up at your local evangelical church demanding the pastor sanctify their relationship under threat of a lawsuit, and only a complete idiot would doubt they will, I expect you'll be there berating the pastor as a hateful bigot.
You're so predictable.
You don't have a rebuttal so you set up a straw man.
Show me where I came down on any side.
Right, It'll never move beyond where it is right now. Just like the gay lobby was satisfied with the end of anti-sodomy laws, the tobacco nazis were satisfied with non-smoking sections in airplanes and the government was satisfied with 10% of your income. Only a fool or a liar would say it's over. Which are you?
As for the second question, you took a side when you compared those who resist rampaging gay activists forcing their agenda on everyone else to the tobacco nazi's forcing smokers and to pay ever higher taxes.
We all like to think of ourselves as rugged individualists. But when push comes to shove most of us are sheep who do what we are told. Worst of all, a lot of us become unpaid agents of whoever is controlling the agenda by enforcing the current dogma on the few rugged individualists who actually exist.
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Re: Smokers' Tax
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
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If you really want to raise your blood pressure just compare the inflation adjusted per pupil spending in both k-12 and colleges from 30-40 years ago with that of today. Then compare ANY measure of academic achievement between then and now.
We all like to think of ourselves as rugged individualists. But when push comes to shove most of us are sheep who do what we are told. Worst of all, a lot of us become unpaid agents of whoever is controlling the agenda by enforcing the current dogma on the few rugged individualists who actually exist.
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Re: Smokers' Tax
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
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ROnly a fool or a liar would say it's over.
And where did I say that?
Quote:
Which are you?
See above. You've proved that you're a moron though. Again.
By trying to put words in my mouth when everyone can look back at the previous posts
Quote:
As for the second question, you took a side when you compared those who resist rampaging gay activists forcing their agenda on everyone else to the tobacco nazi's forcing smokers and to pay ever higher taxes.
Your reasoning gets more bizarre by the post. No wonder you got your azz kicked in the election.
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Smokers' Tax
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Joined: Jan 2009
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Adjunct
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Adjunct
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Quote:
No wonder you got your azz kicked in the election.
The only people who have had their asses kicked in the past several elections has been the American citizenry.
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Re: Smokers' Tax
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Joined: Jun 2006
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Jun 2006
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Compare the number of students in a class room back then versus now, the amount of classes taught by a teacher back then versus now, and the compensation and retirement plans then versus now, and it a disaster in results for the kids and a windfall for the teachers ( ed yoo kay turs ).
Our Liberties We Prize and Our Rights We Will Maintain
If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and will never be.----Thomas Jefferson
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Re: Smokers' Tax
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
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Quote:
Quote:
No wonder you got your azz kicked in the election.
The only people who have had their asses kicked in the past several elections has been the American citizenry.
You got a point there Leno 
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Smokers' Tax
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Joined: Feb 2007
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Smokers' Tax
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Joined: Jul 2007
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Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
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As to the education thing, (boy, do we waunder...) and as a former educator, the biggest problem teachers face is NOT money or number of students. (There have been large class sizes before.) The problem is one that you can't raise money for or regulate. It is the "culture" of "students" in the present times. Student's attention span is the length of a knat's (thanks to millions of hours of T.V.)
They come to school without any respect for "authority" at all (Thank the parents and their lawyers). They don't respect the idea of education (after all, their heroes are movie stars, so called "musical performers" and sports stars. They don't give a fig for the "stars" of my parents generation, like Ford, Einstein, Lindberg and a host of others who actually contributed something to society. And finally, the culture of "Me". I am generalizing some, but these are the high points. I finally gave up after I came to realize all this, and I deeply admire the professionals who were better and tougher than I was.
Fidelis et Fortis
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Re: Smokers' Tax
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
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Quote:
Danmn nanny staters.
Can't get away from them.
One one side, they want to tax/ban your smokes.
On the other side they want to run your sex life.
Just different nannies, that's all.
Ok smart a$$, explain which nannies want to run your sex life and how.
We all like to think of ourselves as rugged individualists. But when push comes to shove most of us are sheep who do what we are told. Worst of all, a lot of us become unpaid agents of whoever is controlling the agenda by enforcing the current dogma on the few rugged individualists who actually exist.
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Re: Smokers' Tax
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Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
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Sigh. Larry, Larry. You just don't get it. But I am glad you found your way back to the point. This was an abstract point not endorsing any particular stance. The point is that people want government regulations to support their own personal agendas and beliefs. Liberals and Conservatives. These were just two quick examples. In fact, the way I wrote it was intentionally ambiguous. I could be in favor of, or against both. There is no position taken. In fact, a true Libertarian would be against both as government interference in what should be personal choices. And thanks for acknowledging my smartassedness I consider that a compliment and affirmation EDIT: Oh yeah larry, just to answer your question in a simple manner. Quote:
Ok smart a$$, explain which nannies want to run your sex life and how.
My sex life?
Nobody.
But then, nobody's taxing my smokes either
Last edited by bigbill; 04/11/2009 1:40 AM.
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Smokers' Tax
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Adjunct
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Adjunct
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Quote:
In fact, a true Libertarian would be against both as government interference in what should be personal choices.
Sadly the American electorate seems unable to come to terms with the fact that left and right wings are both on the same dysfunctional bird. It is as if there exists a single master political Janus party that shows one face for Republican votes and the other face for Democratic votes. Apart from a few well chosen battle issues (gun control for the right, abortion rights for the left) what are the real differences? (Granted that is an oversimplification, nevertheless it is essentially true.)
Both sides increase the size and scope of government. Both sides encroach on the rights of citizens. Both sides want to rewrite the Constitution. The approach varies according to overt political affiliation, the results are the same however.
I would like to think there is hope for a viable third party, but that will require a political realization beyond simply bleating "Four legs good, two legs bad," the prevalent mindset of the foam finger waving party *faithful* on both sides of the aisle.
The choosing the lessor of two evils demonstrates nothing more than a lack of real choice.
2018 FLHCS
2014 Surly Straggler - 16,000 miles and counting!
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Re: Smokers' Tax
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Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
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Bingo! Give the man a cigar
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Smokers' Tax
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Joined: Feb 2007
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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Everything will be OK as long as everyone votes Republican without thinking.  Peter Griffin for president! 
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Smokers' Tax
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
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Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Smokers' Tax
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Joined: Jul 2008
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Learned Hand
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OP
Learned Hand
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I stopped voting about twenty years ago. It made me feel dirty.
'08 America Blue/White; Custom Headlamps, Custom Lowers, Clearview 20", Bafflectomy
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Re: Smokers' Tax
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
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Quote:
Sigh. Larry, Larry. You just don't get it.
But I am glad you found your way back to the point.
This was an abstract point not endorsing any particular stance. The point is that people want government regulations to support their own personal agendas and beliefs.
Liberals and Conservatives.
These were just two quick examples.
In fact, the way I wrote it was intentionally ambiguous.
I could be in favor of, or against both. There is no position taken.
In fact, a true Libertarian would be against both as government interference in what should be personal choices.
And thanks for acknowledging my smartassedness I consider that a compliment and affirmation
EDIT: Oh yeah larry, just to answer your question in a simple manner.
Quote:
Ok smart a$$, explain which nannies want to run your sex life and how.
My sex life?
Nobody.
But then, nobody's taxing my smokes either
There you are as usual. First making a snide comment meant to offend, especially knowing the climate in Iowa right now, taking umbrage when your comment is taken at face value. Gratuitous insults at anyone taking you to task and now a refusal to clarify your comment when asked. I may be a politician but you’re the one doing the old two step to avoid actually being clarifying your comment.
I’ll ask again, hoping for but not expecting a clear answer. You made a comment about nanny staters in the bedroom. Who do you identify as nanny staters in this case and what behavior are they trying to control or stop? I’m curious if you are capable of a straight answer.
We all like to think of ourselves as rugged individualists. But when push comes to shove most of us are sheep who do what we are told. Worst of all, a lot of us become unpaid agents of whoever is controlling the agenda by enforcing the current dogma on the few rugged individualists who actually exist.
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Re: Smokers' Tax
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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Hey Larry, I think I'll step in here for Bill, only because it's VERY clear what he meant!!! VERY freakin' clear!!! And I think you're smart enough to know what he meant TOO!!! RIGHT???!!! AND, when EXACTLY did Bill "INSULT" you in the above, HUH???!!! I certainly didn't see any friggin' "insult" in ANY of his friggin' comments to you! NOPE!!! NOT at ALL!! What I DID SEE was him being somewhat subtlely "SARDONIC" and attempting to point out in his "oh so subtle way" the friggin' INCONSISTENCIES in YOUR stance!!! Once AGAIN...NOT "insulting", but POINTING OUT the INCONSISTENCIES in YOUR friggin' stance!!! GOT IT???!!!  (and Bill, first, I apologize for speaking for you here, and SECONDLY for, as you sometimes "chastised me for, not being "subtle enough"...BUT, as I sometimes point out to YOU Bill, sometimes "subtlety" DOESN'T always get your friggin' POINT ACROSS to "some folks"...and so Bill, NOW do YOU "GET IT" here??? ...and geeeeeee, I "sure hope" I didn't just "insult" YOU here now, dude!!! And NOW Larry..what say WE ALL just have a NICE friggin' drink and DROP IT NOW...OKAY???!!!)
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: Smokers' Tax
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Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
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Dwight gets it. Ian gets it. Looks like Leno gets it. Does anybody besides Larry not get it???  Quote:
BUT, as I sometimes point out to YOU Bill, sometimes "subtlety" DOESN'T always get your friggin' POINT ACROSS to "some folks"...and so Bill, NOW do YOU "GET IT" here???
But...but...but it's just so much fun
And to be fair buddy, I did call Larry a moron.
Of course that was in response to his attempt to impute certain comments to me and then call me a liar over something I never said...well, OK, maybe it's just an acknowledgment not an insult.
And while I do prefer civil discourse, I don't mind rasslin' either.
And that's even more fun when the guy that starts it whines over his bloody nose.
(Dang, I bet I'm being too subtle again, huh )
Ah well, at least you, Ian, and Leno get it. As do some others, I'm quite sure
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Smokers' Tax
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Joined: Feb 2007
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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Quote:
But...but...but it's just so much fun
I can't speak for anyone else but I was kind of enjoying the show!
Maybe he is sahnsahtave or how ever you spelled it.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Smokers' Tax
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Adjunct
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Adjunct
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What I get is that big government causes many more problems than it could ever solve.  Politicians should be drug tested weekly.
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Re: Smokers' Tax
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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They should get a pay reduction for every promise they make that they didn't keep. Talk about a tax cut!
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Smokers' Tax
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
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Posts: 7,630 Likes: 7 |
Actually everyone seems to agree Bigbill meant exactly what I said he meant. So please explain where I went wrong? Comparing those who oppose forcing gay marriage on the citizenry by judicial fiat to people who make it illegal to smoke at a tavern where the owners and patrons want to allow it is absurd.
And just like the tobacco taliban won't stop until they take away your choice to smoke or not, the gay lobby will not stop until they force everyone to not only tolerate or accept their behavior, but to celebrate it under penalty of law.
We all like to think of ourselves as rugged individualists. But when push comes to shove most of us are sheep who do what we are told. Worst of all, a lot of us become unpaid agents of whoever is controlling the agenda by enforcing the current dogma on the few rugged individualists who actually exist.
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Re: Smokers' Tax
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821 |
So Larry, why are gay people gay?
And why don't you try to avoid the leading questions, hmmm?
They don't fool anybody.
Last edited by bigbill; 04/17/2009 10:33 PM.
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Smokers' Tax
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
Quote:
Actually everyone seems to agree Bigbill meant exactly what I said he meant. So please explain where I went wrong? Comparing those who oppose forcing gay marriage on the citizenry by judicial fiat to people who make it illegal to smoke at a tavern where the owners and patrons want to allow it is absurd.
And just like the tobacco taliban won't stop until they take away your choice to smoke or not, the gay lobby will not stop until they force everyone to not only tolerate or accept their behavior, but to celebrate it under penalty of law.
So Larry, you JUST won't drop this, WILL YA???!!!
And sooooo, to ANSWER your friggin' question here...
I'll betcha ANYTHING the friggin' TALIBAN doesn't tolerate homosexuality in Afghanistan EITHER, my so-called "Christian" friend!!!!
NOPE! And ya know WHY they probably don't?! It's because THOSE MORONS over THERE have NEVER LEARNED to SEPARATE THEIR friggin' religious beliefs FROM their secular governmental instititions EITHER!!!
(and DUDE...I gotta tell ya here, NO gay person has ever, that's right EVER, "forced me to celebrate their friggin' lifestyle!!!
GET IT NOW???!!!
(bring up the friggin' "Taliban" to ME will ya???!!!...H*ll, you're so friggin' BLIND that you can't see that you're JUST LIKE THEM in so many friggin' ways!!!!)
AND, if you want to continue this friggin' discussion, then PLEASE GO to that OTHER WEBSITE that T-man runs...WILL YA???!!!
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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