Bonneville America Forums Forums General Motorcycle Forums Other Bikes Looking to buy a heavy cruiser (long)

Let me start by saying that I love my '05 America. I've put a ton of money into it, and it's pretty much the best bike for what I usually use bikes for. What it isn't great at is cruising two-up: I'm not tiny, my wife is 6 feet tall, and there just isn't enough room to be really comfortable without making too many compromises on a day-long ride, not to mention a tour.

So while I'm keeping the America, I'm in the market for a second bike. My considerations are: It can't be a sport-tourer (just sold a BMW R1150RT, and I never really liked it); it can't have a big trunk I need to shlep around all the time (that lets out Goldwings and H-D Electra Glides, among others); it can't be a "road-sofa" performance-wise; and it can't be suited only to touring. Oh, and the Rocket 3 is out because it's one of the ugliest bikes on the market today; no way am I going to ride a bike with a radiator the size of Nebraska out front. What I'm really looking for, I've decided, is a heavy cruiser that can cruise comfortably with luggage add-ons.

I started my search at the Harley dealer. I've had Harleys before, years ago, and thought that surely with their huge selection there would be one that fills the bill to a T. I looked at the Softail Deluxe. Nice bike, but over $20K with tax and fees. Then I looked at the Road King line. Also nice, also over $20K. Same with the Street Glide — the new pay-more-to-get-less variation on the Electra Glide. Nothing I saw really got the juices flowing in an I-gotta-have-it kind of way. In fact, looking around the dealership, I saw what many call "tradition," but which could also be characterized as a plethora of tired, old designs spruced up with a few moderate technological improvements and glitzy paint jobs. I just couldn't get excited about anything there except, perhaps, the V-rod; but that wasn't what I'm looking for.

I then looked at the "other" American bike, the Victory. The choices there included the Touring Cruiser and the Kingpin Deluxe. The TC is an old design that's been around since the company began building motorcycles; it's a little dowdy, and each year Victory fans think it's going to be discontinued. It probably will be, as soon as Victory comes out with a proper, modern touring rig. Meanwhile, they're touting the Kingpin Deluxe, which comes with bags (tiny), a windshield, and, in '06, a 6-speed tranny for about $17K before taxes and fees.

The Kingpin certainly looks nice, and the dealer had a 5-speed '05 I could take for a ride. Actually, the bike is yet one more iteration of Victory's Vegas line. The seat is not very comfortable, and the bike may not have been in tune because it rode (and sounded) like a tractor. Also, the tank passes a pretty fair amount of vibration through to one's legs, which I found very annoying (especially coming off the America, where nothing vibrates enough to be noticeable). More than anything else, the vibration put me off. Overall, the Victory's are nice bikes. But they have taken one design, the Vegas, and are rolling out every possible iteration of it as quickly as they can.

Unlike the Harleys, which have terrific tradition but are technologically deficient, the Victory line is technologically in the 21st century (though far from cutting-edge) but has no character or soul that I could discover. In fact, with their fat-rear-tire Hammer and Jackpot models, as well as their clothing and club, Victory could be taking over from H-D as the ultimate, mass-produced poser-bike manufacturer.

I stayed away from Honda, Kawasaki and Suzuki, not because they're Japanese necessarily but because I do see their cruiser designs as slavish copies of Harleys, or what they thing Harleys should like like. Not that they're not fine bikes; it's just that I don't have any "feel" for them, as I do, for example, for my Triumph America. That being the case, even if they were the best bikes in the universe, I wouldn't enjoy riding them. So they're out.

That brought me to Yamaha, and specifically to the new Road/Stratoliner line, which, in an earlier thread, I referred to (with my usual restraint) as a "monstrosity...encrusted with every design element ever invented."

Well, even a "monstrosity" deserves another chance, so I rode over to my local dealer for another look. The Stratoliner (the Japanese really have to get the naming thing right) is not yet in showrooms, but the Roadliner is. In fact, most dealers, like the one I was at, have one one hand for test rides. The RL is the SL without the detachable windshield, passenger backrest and saddlebags; otherwise, they are identical mechanically.

It definitely is a very large motorcycle by any measure, with a 101.6-inch length, a dry weight of 758 pounds, and a 113 cu. in. engine. But if you get on one and intend to move it off its side stand, be very careful or you'll throw it over onto its right side. It's every bit as light off the stand as my Triumph, and I say that without exaggeration. I think it's some kind of Japanese sleight-of-hand...and it doesn't end there. Somehow, Yamaha has made the bike look heavy and be heavy without feeling heavy. It feels a tad heavier at slow speeds than my Triumph, but nothing like as heavy as my BMW RT, which was lighter than the RL/SL.

I decided to take it for a ride, albeit a short one. I had never ridden a bike with that size engine and that amount of torque before, and I was curious. The bike they rolled out for me was a Midnight RL, with everything, including the engine, blacked out. Nice, if you are anti-chrome, but not my taste. The moment the bike began rolling it seemed light on its feet, not at all heavy. More Japanese trickery. The torque maxes out at 2500 RPM, so you get to play with it in traffic if you want. Acceleration was what you would expect, but I'm not an acceleration-type of guy, so I got on it once, saw what was there, and slowed down. For me, it's the torque that makes the ride fun.

There is almost no vibration at all. What there is comes from the boom of those jugs moving up and down in their cylinders. There's an appropriate deep rumble, not at all obnoxious, which would be loud enough for me. The suspension can only be described as plush. Fit and finish are perfect, with many tiny details going unnoticed during a first pass. There's a small Yamaha decal behind the seat on the fender, apparently easily removed; another small Yamaha logo on the engine case; and as far as I could see, no Star identification at all, anywhere on the bike. Go figure.

All in all, unless I come up with a better idea real soon, I think I'll be putting in an order for a Stratoliner "monstrosity" (how I wish they would change that name). It's big, roomy, powerful, and is its own design — definitely not a Harley clone, unless, by definition, one considers every cruiser-style bike to be a Harley clone.

Before putting any money down, look though the service manual. Yamaha often seems to be determined to make all their money on repairs and assuring that they get it by making everything as difficult as possible.
As for it not being a wannabe Harley, it certainly looks like a shovelhead FLHS to me. For close to that price, you can get a Dynaglide with twice the warrentee, and it's a name brand bike that is supposed to look like a Harley.
If I were looking for a bigger bike and it were available with a bit higher bars and the pegs set maybe 4 inches farther to the front, I would seriously consider the Triumph Sprint.

Whoa Philip, you sure change your mind awfully quick. Earlier this month in mikesr's thread about the Roadliner you said; "My impression was that Yam's design department had gone berserk. Art deco is one thing; but this monstrosity was encrusted with every design element ever invented." and that "For myself, I'll stick with the American and European brands." Nothing wrong with changing your mind, but that's a quick turn around from your POV.

But hey, go ahead and buy what floats your boat. I know where you're coming from about our bikes not being the best around for 2up riding, and that the Rocket III's looks aren't a thing of beauty, especially the radiator.

I'll be in the same position as you in 2007 when I go looking for something more 2up capable. Who lnows, maybe by then Triumph will have that rumored cruiser slotted in between our bikes and the Rocket III. At this point though I'm leaning towards something lighter than those big V-Twins and a bike that can go down a dirt road. All I can say is good luck with your search, and I hope you don't get rid of your current ride. I know I'm keeping my Speedmaster.

Well, you'll note that I did quote myself regarding the "monstrosity". And you're right, my friend, I did do a bit of a turnaround. It's the ride that did it. I've never felt anything quite like it before in a motorcycle, and I've been riding for roughly 45 years now (yes, I'm 62) and owned everything from BSA's to Harleys. It wasn't just the power, but the liquid way it was delivered.

If you get a chance, you ought to give it a spin. I'm not suggesting you'd want to buy one by any means, but as an experienced rider yourself I'm sure you'd find it interesting.

I do plan to keep the America; I can't see parting with it.

Philip

Nah, those big heavy cruisers just aren't for me. At this point I can't bring myself to liking a 700-800lb bike no matter how much horsepower and torque it dishes out. It's still going to be a bear to countersteer through the twisities, and I like those curvy roads too much to have a bike that takes the enjoyment out of them. Not that my Speedmaster is all that great when the road starts to snake, but I bury my riding buddies on their VTX 1800s when the tarmac gets interesting.

Besides, I just can't stomach the Star spinoff from Yamaha as you know by the other thread. I've never turned my nose up about a bike over the way they're marketed, but Yamaha sure pushed my wrong button with the way they've changed.

But good luck to you on your search for a better 2up ride. I hope you find something enjoyable to ride, and a bike you and your passenger are comfortable on....even if it's a YamaStar.

I must admit I am quite impressed with this lot as a heavy cruiser as you say the Rocket is not that great to look at.

The new 2006 Vulcan® 2000 Classic

2006 KAWASAKI VULCAN® 2000 CLASSIC SPECIFICATIONS
Engine Four-stroke V-twin, dual cams, 8 valves
Displacement 2,053cc
Bore x stroke 103 x 123.2mm
Compression ratio 9.5:1
Cooling Liquid, plus cooling fins
Induction Electronic fuel injection, 46mm throttle bodies
Ignition TCBI with Digital Advance
Transmission Five-speed
Frame Steel, double-cradle with box-section singletube backbone
Rake / trail 32° / 7.2 in.
Suspension type, front 49mm telescopic fork
Suspension type, rear Steel pipe swingarm with direct-action single shock
Suspension adjustments, rear Fully adjustable spring preload, eight-way rebound damping
Wheel travel, front 5.9 in.
Wheel travel, rear 3.9 in.
Tire, front 150/80R16
Tire, rear 200/60R16
Brakes, front / rear Dual 300mm discs with four-piston calipers / 320mm disc with dual-piston caliper
Ground clearance 5.3 in.
Seat height 26.8 in.
Dry weight 750 lbs.
Fuel capacity 5.5 gal.
Wheelbase 68.3 in.
Colors Ebony, Galaxy Silver
Expected arrival: Dec. 2005
MSRP (USA) $12,999 Classic

Y'all are forgetting some other contenders, y'know (and I'm not even getting too esoteric here, I think):

http://www.motoguzzi-us.com/bikes/index.html

http://www.ural.com/

http://www.indianmotorcycle.com/

That said, I'm a Honda snob if you gotta go Japanese. The VTX is, by all accounts, a BEAST.

--Jaeger

I think the only one I like here is this and it looks great.

Engine: 90º V-Twin, 4 stroke
Cylinders: Aluminum alloy with Gilnisil treatment
Pistons: Forged, 2 compression & 1 oil control ring
Cooling system: Air cooled
Displacement: 1064 cc
Bore and stroke: 92 mm x 80 mm
Compression ratio: 9.8:1
Valves & operation: 2 overhead valves moved by light
alloy push-rods and rocker arms with hydraulic valves
Maximum power: 74 hp @ 6400 rpm
Maximum torque: 70 ft/lbs @ 5000 rpm

the rocket tends to beomce much better looking after you ride onw

Frank

Guzzis are nice, if there was a dealership within 400 miles of me, I'd be tempted to get a Breva 1100 as my next ride. Great looking bikes.

Ya know, you guys had me doubting myself when I said I liked the big new Yamaha/Star. I thought maybe it's time to get back on my medication since I had no one agreeing with me. Well Phil, maybe we both need to re-medicate, but I like it. I like the all black Stratoliner myself(Boeing made a plane by that name that was almost as big as the Yamaha).
Mike Sr.

Before I go plunk down any cash for anything bigger than the America (which fits me just fine by the way) I'm going to see if the rumors about a 2/3 R3 coming out at the end of next year are true. A 1500 Triumph twin could be fun.

The Rocket III. One man's ugly is another man's distinct. You certainly can't say it looks like just another generic harley rip off.

That being said the VTX is a nice bike. I haven't ridden one but I raced a friend on his 1300 once and he ate my lunch (I would have been surprised if it had even been a contest - the VTX has a half-liter on mine and I'm carrying an extra c-note over the other rider).

Take a Rocket III out for a test ride and your opinion of how it looks will be vastly over shadowed by how well it rides. The Rocket III rides much better than our America or Speedmaster. It handles as well or better than most sport bikes. The only thing that turned me off about the Rocket III was its massive amount of power. The bike is within 85% of its peak torque from 1500 to 5500 rpm. You might want to check out Corbin.com and look at the saddle bags and windscreen that Corbin makes for the Rocket III. The combination of Corbin set, saddle bags and windscreen makes the bike look much better.

Tom

I rode a Rocket III today - put 20 miles on a demo. Quite impressive, as I expected. When I started her up, I thought I was starting my old Toyota pickup. The torque and power are amazing, but quite civilized. I was surprised that the foot controls were no further forward, and the tank felt like it was a lot higher (I guess it really is). I made a fair loop of highway, freeway interchanges, and stop and go along Hwy 3. It rocks!

I was a little disappointed in the vibration though. My right hand felt tingly only a couple of miles down the road, and by the time I got back it was a real problem. Don't know if it was just THAT bike, or if the all do that, or just the different riding position compared to my Speedmaster. I loved the bike, but I wouldn't put my money down on one without riding more of them. A long ride with that vibration would not be fun.

Philip have you looked at the Suzuki V-stroms? or the Ducati Multistradas?

Sounds like you really want a HEAVY cruiser, though...

Interesting, Keith. I don't recall any funky vibrations. Maybe it was just that bike. Or maybe I rode the anomaly.

I love the 1800 VTX and have two. I have ridden them all over the country. They can do spirited evening rides, too. The price is right and they are not much of a HD cruiser copy. What HD cruiser has a shaft drive like a VTX?

vtx is nice, i like the 1300. the 1800 feels to heavy for me, feels muh heavier then my dads RIII

Frank

if your thinkin yamaha, have you looked at the venture??? v-4 and all the goodies you could want. a friend rides one and i have taken it for a spin, 0 vibration and you cant help but like the speedo. my T.B.A. does everything i need done but i am not 6' and neither is my wife. my friend is and he sez that bike fits him like like my T.B.A.fits me. he sold his road star to get the venture and sez it is much better. i cant imagine ever buying a jap bike but sometimes ya gotta do what cha gotta do???? i think i would look into the Sprint or a loaded R-3

Phillip,

The 2006 Rocket3 with the blacked-out engine, is in my book, quite an improvement in the asthetics depatment over the previous year's powder-coated silver/grey. I think it actually makes the bike a decent looker. I'd check that out.

I also like newt's idea regarding the Yamaha Royal Star/Venture with it's V-4. That's a bike that I'd consider too, as I've never thought of their V-4s as being Harley-clones, as I have any V-twin that comes from across the Pacific as being exactly that.

And even though I've always had a soft spot in my heart for Moto Guzzis, from what you've written regarding wanting a "heavy crusier", I doubt the Guzzi California Classic tourer would be big enough for your purposes.

Good luck in your search.

Dwight

1 r 3 i test rode had vibes too, another didn't. but i love the new blacked out engine model and the red & cream paint scheme.
here some reviews...
cat
r 3 rvw

06 rd/crm

Don't forget about resale value. I heard if you buy a Japanese bike it looses 50% of it's value during the first year. At least with Harleys, resale is good and sometimes you can sell them for more then you paid.

Check out the Guzzi California EV Touring model. My wife and I are looking at getting one as a second bike for the same reason.

GB,

Yep! I recall that H/D V4 concept was all the talk back in the late '70s. But because it was stillborn I don't think you could say Harley had a particular claim to it. I don't recall them even getting to the point of fitting such an engine into a frame.

There is a slight similarity between the Royal Star and the 1970's L4 Ducati Apollo, though. However, Ducati also never went into mass-production with that bike either, with only a few made as concepts for the american police market.

Regarding the Trihawk....
I always thought that 3-wheeler was cool. It was a shame that after H/D bought the rights to it they couldn't make a go of it either.

Any 3-wheeler with it's configuation consisting of two forward wheels, that has it's front wheels driven, like the TriHawk did, is going to be much more trackable and stable than one that has only it's rear wheel powered, and both of those configuations will be much more stable than the type with the single wheel forward.

Dwight