 Re: HD finally facing trouble
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Joined: Jul 2008
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,440 |
Quote:
Where are you finding a Snortster considerably cheaper than a BA?
Ha, ha, "Snortster," I love it. Well, I looked at Snortsters before the BA. The out the door price was nearly $1K less than I ended up paying, and I have to tell ya, I didn't write a blank check for this bike. It was cheaper than two closer dealers, which is why I trailered it home from Dallas. Maybe there were strings attached to the HD deal that I would've discovered later, but I don't think so. As far as I know, it was just a high volume Harley shop anxious to keep the momentum going.
'08 America Blue/White; Custom Headlamps, Custom Lowers, Clearview 20", Bafflectomy
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Re: HD finally facing trouble
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,248 Likes: 64
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,248 Likes: 64 |
High volume is probably the difference, they can afford to make a deal because they are moving more.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: HD finally facing trouble
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,726
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,726 |
Triumph is planning a price increase? I guess that will make our bikes worth more. 
Bob
2005 America, 904cc - sold. 2014 Trophy SE.
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Re: HD finally facing trouble
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Joined: Feb 2007
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,248 Likes: 64 |
It's just a rumor I heard I have no facts to back it up.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: HD finally facing trouble
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,518 Likes: 32
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,518 Likes: 32 |
Quote:
Really? And have ya looked at Sportsters? In HD's home market, a 900CC Sportster is considerably cheaper than a BA.
Ok, so it is the Sporters that are representative of HD now? 
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Hey, I've got an idea. Let's talk about the $16k motorcycle Triumph is/was/might be planning to produce.
I'd love to but you have been telling us on another thread that the American public ... who haven't yet seen the bike ... don't like it.
I have a physics degree from a reputable university and that's one equation I can't figure out.
How can someone ... who hasn't seen something ... dislike it?
Anyhow, how did the dentist appointment go?
Bedouin.
Blessed are those eyes that have seen more roads than any man! (Homer).
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Re: HD finally facing trouble
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Joined: Apr 2006
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,623 Likes: 2 |
Rather than arguing about this, let's help the economy and get out there and buy a motorcycle or 2. 
Kevin - Luceo Non Uro
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Re: HD finally facing trouble
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Joined: Jan 2006
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,705 Likes: 23 |
I am still trying to work out the numbers. Harley sales fell 6.8% according to Harley. (the beginning of the tread) According to another thread they fell 14%. Which is it? Harley makes 1% of all the bikes but made 225,000 in 08 and somehow that totals 44 million.
Yes, you absolutely can get out the door on an 883 cheaper than a 865 Triumph. The high volume dealers you can get a 1200 out the door for about the same numbers.
I think the point of the thread has been lost. Yes the global economy sucks. Yes bikes are generally bought as toys not transportation so they are the first to be sold and the last to be bought when money is tight.
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
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Re: HD finally facing trouble
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,518 Likes: 32 |
Quote:
I am still trying to work out the numbers.
Harley makes 1% of all the bikes but made 225,000 in 08 and somehow that totals 44 million.
If you reread my post you'll see I said LESS than 1 per cent.
The figure you mention (225.000) is roughly half a percent (i.e. less than 1 per cent) of 44 million (worldwide motorized 2-wheeler unit production).
Simple ... where exactly does the difficulty lie?
Bedouin.
Blessed are those eyes that have seen more roads than any man! (Homer).
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Re: HD finally facing trouble
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,248 Likes: 64
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,248 Likes: 64 |
Texans just like to argue dag nab it! Far be it from us PA guys to ever disagree with anyone!  (I need a Penokio smiley)
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: HD finally facing trouble
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 533
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Jan 2009
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Quote:
Texans just like to argue dag nab it!
Naturally I disagree. 
2018 FLHCS
2014 Surly Straggler - 16,000 miles and counting!
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Re: HD finally facing trouble
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,440
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,440 |
Quote:
Quote:
Really? And have ya looked at Sportsters? In HD's home market, a 900CC Sportster is considerably cheaper than a BA.
Ok, so it is the Sporters that are representative of HD now?
If by "representative" you mean "ubiquitious," then yes.
Quote:
Quote:
Hey, I've got an idea. Let's talk about the $16k motorcycle Triumph is/was/might be planning to produce.
I'd love to but you have been telling us on another thread that the American public ... who haven't yet seen the bike ... don't like it.
I believe you're misquoting me (again). What I really said (to paraphrase) was that the 'Bird won't be a competitive product based on price and design and won't sell well due to a.) that same uncompetitiveness and b.) the timing of its introduction relative to the state of the world economy. I stand by all that.
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I have a physics degree from a reputable university and that's one equation I can't figure out.
It's outside your field of expertise.
'08 America Blue/White; Custom Headlamps, Custom Lowers, Clearview 20", Bafflectomy
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Re: HD finally facing trouble
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,518 Likes: 32
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,518 Likes: 32 |
Quote:
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Really? And have ya looked at Sportsters? In HD's home market, a 900CC Sportster is considerably cheaper than a BA.
Ok, so it is the Sporters that are representative of HD now?
If by "representative" you mean "ubiquitious," then yes.
No, by representative I mean that when one thinks of a HD, it's NOT the Sportster that comes to mind.
Also, if you want to throw words like "ubiquitous" at me, you might want to learn how to spell them first ... or stick to simpler words.
Quote:
I believe you're misquoting me (again). What I really said (to paraphrase) was that the 'Bird won't be a competitive product ... blah blah blah ... I stand by all that.
No misquote (you wish) ... what you "really" said was "Let's face it, even before the credit world tanked, this bike had little draw except to perhaps a limited number of existing Triumph owners."
That's and EXACT quote.
So, the T'Bird had "little draw" to whom? To the public that HASN'T EVEN SEEN it yet?
Nice try!
Quote:
Quote:
I have a physics degree from a reputable university and that's one equation I can't figure out.
It's outside your field of expertise.
Poppycock normally is.
Bedouin.
Blessed are those eyes that have seen more roads than any man! (Homer).
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Re: HD finally facing trouble
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Joined: Jan 2006
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,705 Likes: 23 |
I only argue with numbers that don't mean anything. If 44 million is a valid number it includes every mini-bike, moped, scooter and whatever in the world. The big 10 (motorcycle) companies make about 4 million bikes. I want to know where the other 40 million are. The subject was Harley. They make bikes that do the speed limit. I didn't see EEC scooters from China on the top of that top 10 list posted. Because its apples and oranges. I also argue with day vs. night or light vs. dark. Up and down are good arguments too. Hmm, apples and oranges are both round and grow on trees. They make juice from both. I retract that they are the same.  Everybody knows the #1 seller for Harley Davidson is the Sportster 883 and 1200. It has been that way since 1970. The Sportster is what I think of when I think of Harley. 
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
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Re: HD finally facing trouble
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,518 Likes: 32 |
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If 44 million is a valid number it includes every mini-bike, moped, scooter and whatever in the world.
"44 million motorized 2-wheeler unit production." is what I said and that was 20 posts ago. Manufacturers don't exclude scooters from their figures nor do they impose a speed limit threshold in their accounting practices.
Where is the difficulty to understand this?
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Everybody knows the #1 seller for Harley Davidson is the Sportster 883 and 1200.
Are you saying that the bulk of HD revenues are from the 883 and 1200cc engined motorcycles?
Methinks not ...
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The Sportster is what I think of when I think of Harley.
Can't argue with that, it's your own personal choice.
I don't. I think of the bigger bikes ... 1450cc and upwards.
Bedouin.
Blessed are those eyes that have seen more roads than any man! (Homer).
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Re: HD finally facing trouble
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,705 Likes: 23
Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,705 Likes: 23 |
You already did argue with the perception: Quote:
No, by representative I mean that when one thinks of a HD, it's NOT the Sportster that comes to mind.
Unless you made an error in the sentence, you used the word "one" not "I".
I am still looking for the other 40 million motorized bikes.
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Manufacturers don't exclude scooters from their figures nor do they impose a speed limit threshold in their accounting practices.
What manufacturers don't exclude scooters? You mean the ones that make motorcycles I assume. Those that do not make motorcycles are not counted in the top 10 motorcycle statistics.
Where do a zillion billion and 4 scooters fit into a discussion about HD profit and loss?
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
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Re: HD finally facing trouble
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,440
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,440 |
Quote:
Quote:
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Really? And have ya looked at Sportsters? In HD's home market, a 900CC Sportster is considerably cheaper than a BA.
Ok, so it is the Sporters that are representative of HD now?
If by "representative" you mean "ubiquitious," then yes.
No, by representative I mean that when one thinks of a HD, it's NOT the Sportster that comes to mind.
You mean it doesn't come to your mind. Who cares, your approval isn't required. The Sporster is a Harley and it's sold in very large numbers in the home market. Of course, some HDs really are "boutique," but your attempt to categorize the entire line of HD products in this way is simply nonsense.
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Also, if you want to throw words like "ubiquitous" at me, you might want to learn how to spell them first ... or stick to simpler words.
Ahh, you've run out of useful arguments.
Quote:
Quote:
I believe you're misquoting me (again). What I really said (to paraphrase) was that the 'Bird won't be a competitive product ... blah blah blah ... I stand by all that.
No misquote (you wish) ... what you "really" said was "Let's face it, even before the credit world tanked, this bike had little draw except to perhaps a limited number of existing Triumph owners."
Yes, it has little draw, because it's uncompetitive. I already explained that, here and elsewhere, and I don't need to poll the general public to make that judgement. I only need to look at other offerings and Triumph's market share, something you're apparently not capable of doing from an objective perspective.
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That's and EXACT quote.
Please use smaller words so you can spell them correctly. 
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[So, the T'Bird had "little draw" to whom? To the public that HASN'T EVEN SEEN it yet?
Nice try!
You just don't get it.
Quote:
Quote:
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I have a physics degree from a reputable university and that's one equation I can't figure out.
It's outside your field of expertise.
Poppycock normally is.
But then, you're not qualified to know that it's poppycock.
'08 America Blue/White; Custom Headlamps, Custom Lowers, Clearview 20", Bafflectomy
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Re: HD finally facing trouble
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,736 Likes: 7
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,736 Likes: 7 |
what was this thread about again?
Always remember to be yourself. Unless you suck. Then pretend to be someone else.
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Re: HD finally facing trouble
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 529
Adjunct
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OP
Adjunct
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 529 |
Monkeys, I'm pretty sure it was about monkeys.
2005 America, green/gray, gutted stock pipes, tall sissy bar w/ luggage rack, Saddleman's dual touring seat and Tourmaster saddlebags (and sissybar bag).
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Re: HD finally facing trouble
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,518 Likes: 32
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,518 Likes: 32 |
Quote:
You already did argue with the perception:
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No, by representative I mean that when one thinks of a HD, it's NOT the Sportster that comes to mind.
Unless you made an error in the sentence, you used the word "one" not "I".
I am still looking for the other 40 million motorized bikes.
Quote:
Manufacturers don't exclude scooters from their figures nor do they impose a speed limit threshold in their accounting practices.
What manufacturers don't exclude scooters? You mean the ones that make motorcycles I assume. Those that do not make motorcycles are not counted in the top 10 motorcycle statistics.
Where do a zillion billion and 4 scooters fit into a discussion about HD profit and loss?
Honda is a manufacturer that also makes scooters. Likewise Suzuki, Piaggio, Yamaha and several others.
Since we were talking about finances, they (scooters) also count in the bottom line.
Hence "motorized 2-wheeler unit production." ... yet again. 
Given these parameters, if you dispute the figure I quoted, I assume you have another in mind ... yes?
Bedouin.
Blessed are those eyes that have seen more roads than any man! (Homer).
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Re: HD finally facing trouble
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,518 Likes: 32
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,518 Likes: 32 |
Quote:
Quote:
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Really? And have ya looked at Sportsters? In HD's home market, a 900CC Sportster is considerably cheaper than a BA.
Ok, so it is the Sporters that are representative of HD now?
If by "representative" you mean "ubiquitious," then yes.
No, by representative I mean that when one thinks of a HD, it's NOT the Sportster that comes to mind.
You mean it doesn't come to your mind. Who cares, your approval isn't required. The Sporster is a Harley and it's sold in very large numbers in the home market. Of course, some HDs really are "boutique," but your attempt to categorize the entire line of HD products in this way is simply nonsense.
Quote:
Also, if you want to throw words like "ubiquitous" at me, you might want to learn how to spell them first ... or stick to simpler words.
Ahh, you've run out of useful arguments.
Quote:
Quote:
I believe you're misquoting me (again). What I really said (to paraphrase) was that the 'Bird won't be a competitive product ... blah blah blah ... I stand by all that.
No misquote (you wish) ... what you "really" said was "Let's face it, even before the credit world tanked, this bike had little draw except to perhaps a limited number of existing Triumph owners."
Yes, it has little draw, because it's uncompetitive. I already explained that, here and elsewhere, and I don't need to poll the general public to make that judgement. I only need to look at other offerings and Triumph's market share, something you're apparently not capable of doing from an objective perspective.
Quote:
That's and EXACT quote.
Please use smaller words so you can spell them correctly.
Quote:
[So, the T'Bird had "little draw" to whom? To the public that HASN'T EVEN SEEN it yet?
Nice try!
You just don't get it.
Quote:
Quote:
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I have a physics degree from a reputable university and that's one equation I can't figure out.
It's outside your field of expertise.
Poppycock normally is.
But then, you're not qualified to know that it's poppycock.
Poppycock is easily recognizable 'cause it falls flat on it's face ... pardner, I don't need to be an expert.
About not polling the public regarding the T'Bird etc., are you now deciding for the public, even before they do?
You must be a spectacularly successful businessman, congrats.
Oh, and if you wish to stoop so low as to ridicule my English by correcting my obvious typo (and not spelling mistake) in the word "and", I challenge you to to converse with me in Greek ... or ANY and I mean ANY of the top 13 languages used across the world today.
We'll use a neutral medium.
Bedouin.
Blessed are those eyes that have seen more roads than any man! (Homer).
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Re: HD finally facing trouble
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,518 Likes: 32
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,518 Likes: 32 |
Quote:
Monkeys, I'm pretty sure it was about monkeys.
Dupre97, Roadworthy and others.
You are absolutely correct and for what it's worth, where guilty, I apologize.
Bedouin out.
Bedouin.
Blessed are those eyes that have seen more roads than any man! (Homer).
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Re: HD finally facing trouble
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,440
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Jul 2008
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I think the top of your head will blow off if your fragile ego gets any larger.
'08 America Blue/White; Custom Headlamps, Custom Lowers, Clearview 20", Bafflectomy
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Re: HD finally facing trouble
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,440
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,440 |
'08 America Blue/White; Custom Headlamps, Custom Lowers, Clearview 20", Bafflectomy
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Re: HD finally facing trouble
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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I know you have already said in a previous post I am not qualified to understand your poppycock but ... is that all the poppycock you could conjure up???
Sad attempt.
Like I said ... Bedouin out.
Bedouin.
Blessed are those eyes that have seen more roads than any man! (Homer).
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Re: HD finally facing trouble
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Joined: Apr 2006
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Apr 2006
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Hey, about about them Yankees?
Kevin - Luceo Non Uro
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Re: HD finally facing trouble
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,440
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Jul 2008
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Quote:
is that all the poppycock you could conjure up???
No.
'08 America Blue/White; Custom Headlamps, Custom Lowers, Clearview 20", Bafflectomy
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Re: HD finally facing trouble
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,816
Freelance Jedi Knight
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Freelance Jedi Knight
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,816 |
is 2008 triumph to difficult to you texas cowboy?
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Re: HD finally facing trouble
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Joined: Jul 2008
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Jul 2008
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That's Sir Texas cowboy to you.
'08 America Blue/White; Custom Headlamps, Custom Lowers, Clearview 20", Bafflectomy
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Re: HD finally facing trouble
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825
"Lighten up, Francis."
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"Lighten up, Francis."
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825 |
I think it's pretty obvious to anyone following this thread (and many others) who the real J.O. is.
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Re: HD finally facing trouble
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Joined: Feb 2007
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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Jacky Onasis?
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: HD finally facing trouble
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Joined: Apr 2008
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Adjunct
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Adjunct
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Great thread fellas - i'm enjoying this!  Personally I hope HD and Triumph get out the other side but have to agree with Bedouin Triumph have the product range, cost base and seem more agile than HD. That said HD are a powerful marketing machine which will pull then through - fingers crossed
One day as a tiger is worth a thousand as a sheep
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Re: HD finally facing trouble
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Joined: Sep 2005
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Freelance Jedi Knight
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Freelance Jedi Knight
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Re: HD finally facing trouble
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Quote:
That's Sir Texas cowboy to you.
Dear Sir Poppycock,
I have to tell you you have become quite famous.
I was checking out another Triumph site and this is what they had to say about you:
The thread was titled: This absolutely has to be ....
(and he continues) ... THE dumbest comment i have yet seen regarding the new Tbird....
He then quotes your recent comment... (from the "New Thunderbird ... wow" thread in the "other bikes section").
"I'll be surprised if this is in production long enough for many folks to buy them"
He then continues ...
"Courtesy of some BA forum member blah blah ... This guy is in serious contention for sub moron of the year ! ... blah blah"
That's it.
Let it be known that I ain't calling anyone names ... just bringing your well deserved fame to the surface.
You should be proud.
Anyone who wishes to verify this, PM me and I'll send you the link (as I don't think it should be made public without permission).
Bedouin.
Blessed are those eyes that have seen more roads than any man! (Homer).
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Re: HD finally facing trouble
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,705 Likes: 23
Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,705 Likes: 23 |
Over and out.
When you do extra work just to hurt feelings, I am done with this Bedouin. That last post is unbecoming to say the least.
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
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Re: HD finally facing trouble
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,518 Likes: 32
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,518 Likes: 32 |
Your opinion. You don't seem to mind us being called eurotrash nor sewers or anything else though (including personal comments and pictures just 10 posts above). I didn't see you hollering then. Save it, please.
Bedouin.
Blessed are those eyes that have seen more roads than any man! (Homer).
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Re: HD finally facing trouble
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Joined: Jun 2007
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Adjunct
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OP
Adjunct
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Posts: 529 |
2005 America, green/gray, gutted stock pipes, tall sissy bar w/ luggage rack, Saddleman's dual touring seat and Tourmaster saddlebags (and sissybar bag).
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Re: HD finally facing trouble
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,248 Likes: 64
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,248 Likes: 64 |
I have to agree , name calling is too far. To have a difference of opinion and defend it is fine and even entertaining to see both sides but no need to try and hurt anyones feelings. Quote:
Great thread fellas - i'm enjoying this!
Personally I hope HD and Triumph get out the other side but have to agree with Bedouin Triumph have the product range, cost base and seem more agile than HD. That said HD are a powerful marketing machine which will pull then through - fingers crossed
I too think both will pull through the slump. HD has it's entry level Snortster for a cash cow and I'm sure many of those will later be traded in on bigger bikes.
Triumph produces something for everyone, diversity. Everyone knows that is usually good business practice. They do fall short in the dirt bike department but then again they always have. Other than that they have a wide range of styles and produce good quality machines.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: HD finally facing trouble
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 529
Adjunct
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OP
Adjunct
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Quote:
Dupre97, Roadworthy and others.
You are absolutely correct and for what it's worth, where guilty, I apologize.
Bedouin out.
Doesn't bother me a single bit. I was merely having fun with it. 
2005 America, green/gray, gutted stock pipes, tall sissy bar w/ luggage rack, Saddleman's dual touring seat and Tourmaster saddlebags (and sissybar bag).
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Re: HD finally facing trouble
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,537
Check Pants
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Check Pants
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Lets officially close this thread and part friends. Please don't reply.
Al
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Re: HD finally facing trouble
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825
"Lighten up, Francis."
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"Lighten up, Francis."
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