 America Plugs
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 20
Complete Newb
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OP
Complete Newb
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 20 |
Hi Guys. I have an 05 America and want to check the plugs. As I am not that technically minded can anyone help? What size socket do I need, can I use a standard 'plug' spanner/spocket and what are those things next to the plugs? Other bikes I have had in the past didn't have these. What do they do and do I need them? Thanks in advance
Ross
Ross (05 black America)
If at first you don't succeed, avoid skydiving.
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Re: America Plugs
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 94
Member
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Member
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 94 |
those things next to the plugs are the AI connections. If you remove them you will need to blank the holes off and also the one in the airbox.
I think you need a 12mm plug spanner.
Last edited by Monkey865; 01/06/2009 1:23 PM.
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Re: America Plugs
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,068 Likes: 1
Saddle Sore
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Saddle Sore
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 5,068 Likes: 1 |
Ross , lots of info in "search" about the AI . Be careful tightening the plugs , the "feel" is an aquired skill , get a torque wrench . Look at the color to get an indication of what's going on with the mix . Dab some anti-sieze on the threads .
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Re: America Plugs
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,099
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,099 |
From the Tech Vault, tools section: From: Fishercat I know this baby fits like a glove. I have one and it's $3.99 at Sears. It's a nice thin walled sparkplug socket. Craftsman 18mm Spark Plug Socket Sears item #00943330000 Mfr. model #43330 direct link: http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/search.do...p;gobutton=find
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Re: America Plugs
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,726
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,726 |
Take from Charlie above. Sears is the best place in the US to get one that fits well. A lot of regular 18mm sockets don't work too good. You might not can run down to a Sears and pick one up in the UK. Just make sure it is thin walled 18 mm.
Bob
2005 America, 904cc - sold. 2014 Trophy SE.
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Re: America Plugs
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,099
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,099 |
The credit goes to Ron(Fishercat).
The only time I pulled my plugs was for the valve adjust.
At 13,000 miles, they looked OK. A nice tan color.
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Re: America Plugs
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 20
Complete Newb
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OP
Complete Newb
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 20 |
Thanks guys. The reason I want to check the plugs is I have trouble starting her in the cold. It takes at least 6 or 7 attempts to get her going so I just want to make sure the plugs are okay before I start looking further (or asking you lot for more advice lol).
Ross (05 black America)
If at first you don't succeed, avoid skydiving.
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Re: America Plugs
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 94
Member
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Member
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 94 |
Are you using the choke? Are you twisting the throttle when using the choke (you shouldn't)?
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Re: America Plugs
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 20
Complete Newb
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OP
Complete Newb
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 20 |
Quote:
Are you using the choke? Are you twisting the throttle when using the choke (you shouldn't)?
Yes I am using the choke. I do twist the throttle after the first few cranks otherwise it wont start. Once it does start it is very sluggish for a while. When you twist the throttle after it has started it doesn't rev as such, it sounds very flat.
Ross (05 black America)
If at first you don't succeed, avoid skydiving.
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Re: America Plugs
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,226 Likes: 62
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,226 Likes: 62 |
sounds like your pilot circuit may need adjustment, your bike should start without touching the throttle. Some people have blown up their air box buy twisting the throttle while starting.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: America Plugs
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 20
Complete Newb
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OP
Complete Newb
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 20 |
What is a pilot circuit, and how do I adjust it?
Ross (05 black America)
If at first you don't succeed, avoid skydiving.
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Re: America Plugs
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 94
Member
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Member
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 94 |
Have you tried using half choke?
Do you have stock pipes and air filter etc?
Last edited by Monkey865; 01/08/2009 11:42 AM.
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Re: America Plugs
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 20
Complete Newb
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OP
Complete Newb
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 20 |
Ross (05 black America)
If at first you don't succeed, avoid skydiving.
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Re: America Plugs
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,643
Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,643 |
Ross make sure the idle adjust has not been set to low, you should not have to touch the throttle to start the bike. Also take a look at the Dent thread, as we would love to see you there and you could chew our ears to death
Ray(UK)
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Re: America Plugs
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,816
Freelance Jedi Knight
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Freelance Jedi Knight
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,816 |
buy IRIDIUM plugs they need lower current ..never had problems with them when cold
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Re: America Plugs
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,671 Likes: 15
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,671 Likes: 15 |
Quote:
buy IRIDIUM plugs they need lower current ..never had problems with them when cold
Nor should you with conventional plugs...
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Re: America Plugs
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,226 Likes: 62
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,226 Likes: 62 |
I still have my stock plugs at 20,000 miles and have no issues. Bike starts right up with no throttle.
Try the idle first it should idle just over 1,000 RPM mile is right at 1,000. If that doesn't do it we can get into mixture adjustment.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: America Plugs
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,816
Freelance Jedi Knight
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Freelance Jedi Knight
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,816 |
cold I mean real cold few degree below freezing and my carbs are not heated
Last edited by Grzegorz; 01/09/2009 4:36 PM.
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Re: America Plugs
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,226 Likes: 62
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,226 Likes: 62 |
I have stock heated carbs and I have started my bike well below freezing. If your carbs are not heated there is a possibility of carb ice from about 40ºF and below, don't need freezing temperatures to develop carb ice.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: America Plugs
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,063 Likes: 8
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,063 Likes: 8 |
Quote:
What is a pilot circuit, and how do I adjust it?
The pilot circuit controls the fuel flow in the lower throttle range including idle. Typically the pilot jets are #42 for your bike in a stock setup. They shouldn't have to be changed unless you have modded the intake. The idle circuit is controlled by the idle jets (in conjunction with the pilots to a degree). These have a cover over them which will have to be removed before you can adjust. The screws themselves have a "D" shaped head which will require a home made tool or a special tool to adjust. http://www.newspeedmaster.com/html/d_tool.html My feeling is that these screws should be turned out a half turn each and see if that helps. Turning them out will richen the idle circuit.
Have you modded the bike at all? Has the bike always been this way on startup? If not, you could have some varnish buildup in the idle circuit. Try some Seafoam in the fuel to help remove it.
12 Rocket Roadster
03 Bonneville America
69 BSA Firebird Scrambler
73 Yamaha TX 750
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Re: America Plugs
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 20
Complete Newb
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OP
Complete Newb
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 20 |
OK, I have not made any mods to the bike. Triumph rebuilt the engine in August last year when a bit inside the casing that holds the starter gear shattered. Thye replaced the casing but I am not sure what else.
It looks like I need to adjust the idle (really sorry for being thick) how do i do this?
Ross (05 black America)
If at first you don't succeed, avoid skydiving.
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Re: America Plugs
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,730 Likes: 5
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,730 Likes: 5 |
there is an idle adjustment knob on the bottom of the left (as you sit on it) carb.... little black knob down there, that would be a good place to start
Always remember to be yourself. Unless you suck. Then pretend to be someone else.
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Re: America Plugs
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,463
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,463 |
Don't ever worry about being thick.., I've had an America for nearly 4 years, and I've asked some really daft questions in my time. That's what this place is for.
Oh and I wondered how long it would take Ray to mention Dent... but if you can get there... it's a great way to learn.
Gina
03 America - Pretty stock - except the TBS wheel... 
06 America - missing, presumed in bits. With it's TBS wheel... 
09 America - It's very blue....
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Re: America Plugs
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,063 Likes: 8
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,063 Likes: 8 |
Quote:
It looks like I need to adjust the idle (really sorry for being thick) how do i do this?
No such thing as being thick here.
There are two idle adjustments. One is your idle rpm the bike will run at. It is adjusted with a black knob on the left carb as already stated. If this is adjusted too low, the engine might stall on start up or when you come to an intersection until it is warm. Having the engine adjusted too slow won't cause it to feel flat on acceleration as you stated in a previous post. This is why I feel your engine is running too lean and the other idle adjustment screws which control the air fuel mixture of the idle circuit need to be richened.
You didn't state if your engine always had this condition or if it just happened after the engine rebuild.
12 Rocket Roadster
03 Bonneville America
69 BSA Firebird Scrambler
73 Yamaha TX 750
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Re: America Plugs
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,643
Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,643 |
Quote:
Quote:
It looks like I need to adjust the idle (really sorry for being thick) how do i do this?
No such thing as being thick here.
There are two idle adjustments. One is your idle rpm the bike will run at. It is adjusted with a black knob on the left carb as already stated. If this is adjusted too low, the engine might stall on start up or when you come to an intersection until it is warm. Having the engine adjusted too slow won't cause it to feel flat on acceleration as you stated in a previous post. This is why I feel your engine is running too lean and the other idle adjustment screws which control the air fuel mixture of the idle circuit need to be richened.
You didn't state if your engine always had this condition or if it just happened after the engine rebuild.
Ray(UK)
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Re: America Plugs
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,063 Likes: 8
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,063 Likes: 8 |
Thanks Ray.
That picture says it all. The black knob on the right is the idle speed adjuster and the two holes with the arrows pointing to them are the access points to the pilots/idle screws (idle mixture adjustment screws)
That pic should be in the carb tech vault.
12 Rocket Roadster
03 Bonneville America
69 BSA Firebird Scrambler
73 Yamaha TX 750
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Re: America Plugs
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 20
Complete Newb
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OP
Complete Newb
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 20 |
Quote:
You didn't state if your engine always had this condition or if it just happened after the engine rebuild.
It has only happened since the rebuild.
A brief history. I bought the bike, new, in Spain and didn't even need choke for the first 18 months/2 years. The airbox blew up just before the warranty ran out and Triumph repaired it for me. I've always had it serviced, at a Triumph dealer until the warranty ran out then with a mate who had his own business. Last year, about March/April time the starter gear broke and I couldnt afford to fix it so I got onto Triumph (had a go about the bike being just out of warranty and shouldn't be breaking like this etc). They said if I could get it back to the UK they'd take a look at it. So I got a guy to bring it back in a van, Triumph looked at it and fixed it for nothing. Since then, in the cold, it has trouble starting and when it starts there is no power when you twist the throttle, it goes kinda flat, until it warms up a bit. I have trouble with it cutting out in the wet too. Even in Spain, if it rained, it would cough and splutter. Triumphed looked into that but couldn't find anything. Every electrical connection I can find is now covered in grease and, fingers crossed, it hasn't happened for a while.
Right, I think thats about it. Sorry to waffle and thanks for all the advice so far.
Ross (05 black America)
If at first you don't succeed, avoid skydiving.
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Re: America Plugs
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 20
Complete Newb
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OP
Complete Newb
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 20 |
Quote:
Thanks Ray.
That picture says it all. The black knob on the right is the idle speed adjuster and the two holes with the arrows pointing to them are the access points to the pilots/idle screws (idle mixture adjustment screws)
That pic should be in the carb tech vault.
Right, so what do I have to do to the idle adjustment mixture screws then?
Ross (05 black America)
If at first you don't succeed, avoid skydiving.
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Re: America Plugs
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,226 Likes: 62
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,226 Likes: 62 |
disconnect the left plug wire and adjust the right carb. Have to turn the idle up so the engine will run on 1 cyl. but not so far that the engine isn't idling on the pilot. turn that screw in until the engine runs rough then back out until it runs rough. Your setting is half way between those 2 points. Repeat for the other cyl. Wouldn't hurt to balance them while you are at it.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: America Plugs
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,643
Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,643 |
checout the Tech vault Ross "HERE" You will also need one of these, I borrowed one from one of the guys on here. Sorry cannot remember who now... Better still turn up at DENT and get one of the guys to sort it for you..
Ray(UK)
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Re: America Plugs
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,226 Likes: 62
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,226 Likes: 62 |
There are a couple ways around the D tool. One is to flatten 1 side of a piece of appropriate size break line, instant D tool. The other is to carefully remove the screw with small needle nose pliers or hemostats. Careful not to lose the spring, washer, or O-ring. Then carefully cut a screwdriver slot in them and reinstall. The last is to buy the thumbscrew pilot screws, Bella Corse has them , not sure if Eddy does or not.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: America Plugs
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,643
Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,643 |
Ross I would suggest you buy at least the Haynes manual either off eBay or from local shop... This will give you an idea and step by step instructions of how to Triumph manual on ebayHaynes manual on eBay
Ray(UK)
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Re: America Plugs
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,726
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,726 |
+1 on the thumbscrews. I got mine from Brent at BonnivilleAmerica.com. They made it very easy for me to tweak and find the best setting for the bike. I also bought a manometer to balance the carbs. I check them at idle and at a little above 3K where vibration used to be noticeable. My bike has never run better than now after 3.5 years and 15000 miles.
I also agree you should have a shop manual. At least the Haynes which is loaded with info. I have both the Haynes and the Triumph shop manual.
Bob
2005 America, 904cc - sold. 2014 Trophy SE.
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Re: America Plugs
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 20
Complete Newb
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OP
Complete Newb
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 20 |
Right! I spoke to the Triumph mechanic today (after breaking down in the wet again, see thread in the lounge (Good Grief!). He said both the starting and the cutting out in the wet thing are caused by the coils getting wet. He suggested cleaning the connections up on the coils and coating them in silicone sealant. Am gonna have a go at this tomorrow I think.
And does anyone know where I can get a d tool for the carbs and an 18 mm thin walled spark plug socket in the UK? I have searched for ages and can't find them anywhere in the UK.
Ross (05 black America)
If at first you don't succeed, avoid skydiving.
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 Re: America Plugs
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 807
3/4 Throttle
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3/4 Throttle
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 807 |
Hiya, Ross. Welcome. What's the score with your bike? Are you keeping it/selling it? Is is now ally/plastic/rubber/steel ingots buried in a peat bog somewhere?!!!
Regarding the plug socket, I had trouble finding one, too. I finally got mine from Partco. There's no brand name on it but there is a code: TMTWPS1116
It's an 18mm magnetic plug socket. Cost about £7.
You'll need to remove the tank each time you want to check the plugs if you still have the AI in. If you intend to keep the bike, it might be as well to remove the AI system; it's not a huge job. Do a search in these forums for details.
Regarding the D-tool, if you obtain a short piece of thin copper pipe and flatten one edge, you'll have your D-tool.
Once you've cleaned your coil connections, it might be as well to cover them with a plastic bag, bicycle inner-tube or something. Even if it's only temporary, if it runs OK in that time, you'll know it is water ingress and you can take appropriate action.
Let us know what's happening.
Neill
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Re: America Plugs
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,643
Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,643 |
Quote:
And does anyone know where I can get a d tool for the carbs and an 18 mm thin walled spark plug socket in the UK? I have searched for ages and can't find them anywhere in the UK.
I use the one off my Honda CB Seven Fifty(96) fits perfectly for the spark plugs, don't even have to take the tank off to undo them
Ray(UK)
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Re: America Plugs
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 20
Complete Newb
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OP
Complete Newb
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 20 |
Right. Today I decided to take the tank off and check/clean/grease the coil connections. Took out the bolt holding the rear seat on, and when I took the rear seat off, the clip holding it to the front seat bolt was still on the bike! The two posts holding the clip to the rear seat had cracked. Broken in half! I tell you, I must have been a complete b*st*rd in a previous life. Nothing ever goes right... ever! Anyway, I greased ujp every electrical connection I could find. Covered the coils in a bag (there wasn't anything obvious wrong with them by the way, no corrosion or damage to the connecions) and taped it all up. Taped a bag around the bits uncovered by the stolen side panel until I can get a new one.
OK, seriously, if anyone wants to buy a used, 05, black America in need of a little TLC, send me a PM with an offer!
Ross (05 black America)
If at first you don't succeed, avoid skydiving.
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Re: America Plugs
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,463
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,463 |
Nah, it's not you.... just the previous owner was a git and you are just the innocent next owner...
Gina
03 America - Pretty stock - except the TBS wheel...
06 America - missing, presumed in bits. With it's TBS wheel...
09 America - It's very blue....
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Re: America Plugs
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 195
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 195 |
Can't wait for fuel injection. 
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Re: America Plugs
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 11,126 Likes: 13
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 11,126 Likes: 13 |
"Covered the coils in a bag"
beware condensation
Blowing gravel off rural roads
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