 Get off oil/alternate fuels
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 84
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OP
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Joined: Mar 2008
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Was listening to this guy yesterday on CNBC and was very interesting in options he put forth for an energy policy. http://www.pickensplan.com/Yes he made millions in the oil industry and is now branched into wind power. He also is upfront in that he is in business to make money on wind power. But what he proposes make's sense and lord knows we will get none of that out of Washington. So would you purchase or mod your car/truck to run on natural gas if readily available???? Would rather see some of that billions of dollars stay in the US instead of funding the nut jobs in the middle east and south america.
The best alarm clock is sunshine on chrome. ~Author Unknown
06 Tiger
06 Bonneville T-100 (RIP)
07 America
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Re: Get off oil/alternate fuels
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,225 Likes: 62
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,225 Likes: 62 |
I had an old phone company van at one time that ran on both gasoline and propane. It was a simple mod to do and can't imagine natural gas would be any more difficult. I don't know the difference between the 2 actually if there even is any. I would if it was cheap to do and would save a substantial amount to run.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Get off oil/alternate fuels
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 948
3/4 Throttle
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3/4 Throttle
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 948 |
The problem with CNG (Compressed Natural Gas) is it contains much less energy even than propane. My wife used to be the service supervisor at the local gas company here and they had the city buses, all the gas trucks and several other vehicles running on both gas/diesel or CNG. The range on CNG was very short becuase it took a huge fiberglass reinforced tank to hold even a quarter of what diesel or gasoline would be required to go X miles so they had to have both fuels on board. They finally abandoned the project. But natural gas would be great to replace some of the high oxide goal burning electrical utilities. I think placing wind generators around Washington DC would allow us to power the whole country with the hot air generated out of there. T. Boone Pickens has also purchased a large part of the Olagala aquifer that runs from north Texas way up into the great plains. He says that is where the real shortages will occur-water-and the real money will be made. In Texas you can sell the water under your property ??!! That law doesn't make sense to me but I would never bet against Pickens. Except that is, for the money he has put into the Oklahoma State football team. Hook em! 
Redbike7
2006 America
No amount of skill can overcome gross stupidity. Ask me how I know...never mind, I forgot...
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Re: Get off oil/alternate fuels
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,694 Likes: 22
Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,694 Likes: 22 |
Wind: rofl: If we had depended on wind 100 years ago the industrial revolution would never have happened. We have had the correct technology for 50 years but have allowed silliness to stifle its development and deployment. If wind was so great GE would not have to lobby DC for money to do it. It would pay for itself. IMHO nuclear is the only way to go for those who have, um, thoughts. But, how do you throw it away, oh my?!  I guess the billions on the space shuttle project never gave anybody an idea.
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
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Re: Get off oil/alternate fuels
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821 |
Nuclear definitely has a place in the overall plan. As does wind, solar, geothermal, tidal, etc.
Technology is ever evolving and the possibilities are out there.
One way to do solar; instead of huge solar farms, place solar panels on the roofs of homes in the sun belt. You get a vast reduction in transfer lines as well as the clean energy.
Compressed natural gas needs heavy tanks to contain it. Like oxygen or scuba air. It's not like propane in that respect.
It is compressed to about 3000lbs psi.
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Get off oil/alternate fuels
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,954
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,954 |
That's funny, Vestas and Clipper Wind are putting up Wind Generator factories in Colorado right now (at a cost of hundreds of millions of dollars), and anywhere you go in Europe, you see wind generators. And they have a multi-BILLION dollar backlog of orders for wind generators. No, the technology has not been there for 50 years. There have been HUGE developments in bearings and generator technology for these beasts that make them much more reliable, productive and cost effective. And, I just interviewed 3 weeks ago for a job in northern CO for a company who is now able to mass produce solar panels that can generate electricity on the same cost per watt-hour basis as a coal fired power plant. And yes, as bigbill said, nuclear is part of the overall solution. Everyone talks like there is only ONE answer, like there was with oil. I think there is a multi-pronged approach, and I think man is able to figure out how to use all of them together so our energy needs are able to be met much more soundly than just relying on one fix for all... 
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Re: Get off oil/alternate fuels
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,541
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,541 |
Quote:
One way to do solar; instead of huge solar farms, place solar panels on the roofs of homes in the sun belt. You get a vast reduction in transfer lines as well as the clean energy.
I saw a program on the discovery channel recently about solar power. It stated that a) Germany is at the forefront of solar panel technology, and b) if you lived in an area that had a lot of direct sunlight, you could put a couple of panels on your roof, and supply yourself all the energy your house needed per day and have enough extra power to sell it to your neighbour.
If i could afford the initial outlay i would be intersted in something like this.
Arsenalfan. AKA Mark Able
Seller of fine automobiles.
Jaguar, Land Rover, Porsche of Chattanooga
423-424-4000
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Re: Get off oil/alternate fuels
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,164 Likes: 1
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,164 Likes: 1 |
Quote:
IMHO nuclear is the only way to go
 
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Re: Get off oil/alternate fuels
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,164 Likes: 1
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,164 Likes: 1 |
Quote:
I saw a program on the discovery channel recently about solar power. It stated that a) Germany is at the forefront of solar panel technology, and b) if you lived in an area that had a lot of direct sunlight, you could put a couple of panels on your roof, and supply yourself all the energy your house needed per day and have enough extra power to sell it to your neighbour.
The key words "if you lived in an area that had a lot of direct sunlight". I live in the Great Northwet. It wouldnt work here at all. We have 9 months of rain every year.
I say, lets dig up as much coal as we can, start burning to generate electricity and squeeze the petroleum out of it for motor vehicle fuel, get this global warming thing started so we only have three months of rain, then we can talk about solar (at least until it starts raining again).
Soren
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Re: Get off oil/alternate fuels
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,225 Likes: 62
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,225 Likes: 62 |
Quote:
Quote:
One way to do solar; instead of huge solar farms, place solar panels on the roofs of homes in the sun belt. You get a vast reduction in transfer lines as well as the clean energy.
I saw a program on the discovery channel recently about solar power. It stated that a) Germany is at the forefront of solar panel technology, and b) if you lived in an area that had a lot of direct sunlight, you could put a couple of panels on your roof, and supply yourself all the energy your house needed per day and have enough extra power to sell it to your neighbour.
If i could afford the initial outlay i would be intersted in something like this.
I live in the north east and we are far from being a very sunny area but I would install solar panels if I could afford the initial out lay as well. Even if it didn't supply all my power I am sure it would supply enough to cut my bills WAY down. I had a friend who used to heat his pool (my friends dad actually, this was probably 25 or more years ago) with nothing but solar power. He had a couple coils of black plastic pipe like you see in wells leading to the pump, about 2" or 3" in dia. They were about 5' to 6' across and the water came out really hot.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Get off oil/alternate fuels
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,639 Likes: 3
Old Hand
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Old Hand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,639 Likes: 3 |
Quote:
But, how do you throw it away, oh my?!
Why throw it away? Put up an incentive and I'm sure some brilliant person would be able to find a use for nuclear waste.
As for wind power, the thing that I find impressive is how few of the generators on large windmill farms are actually doing anything. I used to go riding in the desert and see hundreds of the things sitting there with maybe 2 or 3 actually turning and the rest with their blades feathered. A few months ago, I went by a wind farm and most of the mills were turning, but there was a large knife switch on the power line that was open. So, they decided that it looked bad to have the generators obviously idle, but the power from then was still not going anywhere. Seems like one huge boondoggle to me.
While the specific energy of natural gas (methane) isn't terribly high, it is easily generated and is relatively safe because it has a very narrow explosive mixture range. If you had a way of collecting it, a moderate sized compost pile could power your bike with the methane it generates.
Let's hope there's intelligent life somewhere in space 'cause it's buggar all down here. -- Monte Python
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Re: Get off oil/alternate fuels
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,954
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,954 |
Quote:
The key words "if you lived in an area that had a lot of direct sunlight". I live in the Great Northwet.
Not entirely true Soren. After all, Germany isn't exactly known for its balmy weather ya know! Granted, you get more out of an area like the South or Southwest where you have over 300 sunny days a year, but to some degree, solar panels can be "tuned" to different wavelengths of light. I would imagine, given some time, one that utilizes a majority of the light in the UV end of the spectrum (which you have even on cloudy days) could be developed. Of course, maybe a better idea would be a variation on the wind farm thing, especially for the northwest. This one could be a water driven turbine though, that you put on your gutters and downspouts or maybe you just put up a bunch of GIANT funnels with water turbines on the bottom end....
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Re: Get off oil/alternate fuels
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 670
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 670 |
Quote:
Quote:
The key words "if you lived in an area that had a lot of direct sunlight". I live in the Great Northwet.
Of course, maybe a better idea would be a variation on the wind farm thing, especially for the northwest. This one could be a water driven turbine though, that you put on your gutters and downspouts or maybe you just put up a bunch of GIANT funnels with water turbines on the bottom end....
How about just where all the stormwater drains end? Plenty of elevation drop and volume to power water turbines in that area. Let's form a co-op and apply for a reasearch grant....
later, Tom.
But, what do I know?
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Re: Get off oil/alternate fuels
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,164 Likes: 1
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,164 Likes: 1 |
Quote:
How about just where all the stormwater drains end? Plenty of elevation drop and volume to power water turbines in that area. Let's form a co-op and apply for a reasearch grant....
Hey wait a second, we've got something like that already, extremely clean, constantly renewable energy called Bonneville Dam (plus several other dams along the Columbia). The envrios hate them. Those people hate everything if it has to do with people and already are speaking against wind power too, something about it being a hazard to birds or something stupid.
Soren
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Re: Get off oil/alternate fuels
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,541
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,541 |
We got damms all around us here, I assume all of our power comes from these sourses all controlled by the TVA. However, reported last night on the news. Our energy bills will be going up this winter due to the increase in fuel costs. 
Arsenalfan. AKA Mark Able
Seller of fine automobiles.
Jaguar, Land Rover, Porsche of Chattanooga
423-424-4000
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Re: Get off oil/alternate fuels
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,555
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,555 |
As soren pointed out the Enviros hate anything that helps people live a little better.
Somone wanted to put wind turbines off the MA coast. It got shot down becase they would spoil the view off Martha Vinyard.
Dont even know when the last time a nuke came on line in the US.
A proposed trash to energy plant Near Hartford was beaten down.
And I better not mention the fight over the natural gas terminal they want to put in the Long Island sound.
Its good that things like the Hoover dam got built before the "move us back to the stone age" people took over.
If the anti progress movement keeps it up sooner or later we will be taken over by a more advanced civiliztion.Like
I dont know China?
The percentage you're paying is too high-priced
While you're living beyond all your means
And the man in the suit has just bought a new car
From the profit he's made on your dreams
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Re: Get off oil/alternate fuels
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,164 Likes: 1
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,164 Likes: 1 |
Well you know water costs money. It's about a $1 for a liter bottle at 7-11. And you know that raising the cost for electricity will definitely help that water in the river flow faster.
Soren
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Re: Get off oil/alternate fuels
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,354
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,354 |
*steps up to the soapbox Solar is not the great answer that the unedumacated enviros are clamoring for. For example, here is a picture of a dedicated solar plant, located near Boron, CA. Lots of sunshine there in the high desert of SoCal.  Pretty impressive you think, eh? What you see is just 1/5 of the total solar arrays located at that facility. And it only produces 150 MW when the sun is shining and no clouds. Yes, when I was there, they could tell when a cloud passed overhead and output dropped in a heartbeat. By the way, a comparable 150 MW combined cycle power plant would take up considerably less area than the buildings & switchyard in the picture. These solar plants are huge. They take up large amount of desert land. You'd have to cover large areas of the desert just to try to offset the production of a very efficient combined cycle power plant. If one tried to blanket the desert with these things, then the enviros would be crying about the impact of the wildlife in the area. After all, these plants block the sun from the ground, so you would impact the local environment and threaten the habitat of the little critters in the sand and the jackrabbits. Wind power is not much better. There's a reason why they are usually locatedat the top of ridges and large clear cut areas. Can't have trees blocking the wind. Therefore the enviros should be against them for that reason alone, besides the danger to birds. CNG, they use it in cars in Australia all the time. I'm surprised none of our brothers from down under have piped in yet. I saw alot of cars that were dual-fuel. You just throw a switch and the car will flip from gasoline to CNG, no problem. They would have a sticker on their license plate to inform emergency personnel in case of an accident. Personally, I think a combination of technologies is the way to go, with the goal of making fuel cell technology affordable for all. Nuclear technology has improved and they are some of the best trained plant operators in the world. OK, I'll get off my soapbox.
Blue/White 2007 TBA, Thruxton needles, Unifilter, AI removed, Polaris Bellmouth, Bubs, Nology Coils/wires, Lightbar, Ricor Intiminators, Hagon Nitros, Tall Sissy Bar w/luggage rack, Dart flyscreen & Lowers. 130 Mains, TrueGel Battery MG12-BS.
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Re: Get off oil/alternate fuels
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 277
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: May 2006
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Heck, im just waiting for the nuke cell to run my speedy off of. Might make people better drivers if they knew they were driving around a potential bomb. I know, I know, wishful thinking. Nothing is going to make people pay attention!
Mark
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Re: Get off oil/alternate fuels
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,540
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,540 |
I can't wait for Nuclear power to take off again. We are falling behind the rest of the world for advances in nuke power and there is no excuse for it.
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Re: Get off oil/alternate fuels
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,954
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,954 |
Conwy, some people are clammoring for solar or wind, but the smarter ones are saying a combination of several technologies. Like Pickens is saying, put up a string of wind farms through the center of the US in western Kansas, eastern Colorado, etc... from the Canadian to the Mexican border. Don't know if you've been out in that part of the country, but there aren't many (ANY!) trees out there to begin with, just hundreds of miles of open fields. And, the best thing, is you can put them up in the middle of wheat or cornfields (or whatever) and still farm around them. And, solar is even becoming more advanced than that picture you showed, with new thin-film technologies making the size and efficiency of the panels much better. And, of course, this can be augmented by some of the stuff like flexible solar panels that can be roof mounted in the place of shingles, and feed back into the grid. Then, we also have hyrdo power, and should bring new nuke plants on line, and geo-thermal, with each technology being utilized where it makes the most efficient system. Currently, all of the utilities are interconnected, and buy and sell electricity to each other through the grid. That's why Florida Power and Light could build a solar plant in Arizona or New Mexico (last I'd heard, they didn't use eminent domain to take over a strip of land from Florida to Arizona-heehee). So, put stuff where it makes sense, and feed it all into the grid, and buy and trade so that everyone benefits. And, I would have to agree, that some of the more extreme enviros need to be pretty much pushed aside to make way for progress, but at the same time, safety and the environment have to be taken seriously.
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Re: Get off oil/alternate fuels
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
Yeah?! Well what I wanna know is why Professor Emmett L. Brown could take a few banana peels and same coke cans and throw 'em into that blender gizmo and make a Delorean fly all the way back in 1985, and why nothin' been done with that there cold fussion process since THEN, huh?!
(okay...comedy relief bit over...here's my take on this thing.....)
I'm guessing that we're going to see just about all of the ideas mentioned in this thread comin' down the ol' pike a whole lot QUICKER now that this country's energy needs are front and center in the minds of more americans now.
(because, ya know, people in general have never been especially inclined towards the idea of Pro-activism or "thinkin' ahead" until the ol' "you-know-what" hits that rotating prop...and Lord knows even those people tryin' to unload their Cadillac Escalades today seem to have FINALLY noticed that those fan's blades are NOW caked full of that "you-know-what" stuff, alright!)
Last edited by Dwight; 07/11/2008 1:14 PM.
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: Get off oil/alternate fuels
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,164 Likes: 1
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,164 Likes: 1 |
Quote:
Yeah?! Well what I wanna know is why Professor Emmett L. Brown could take a few banana peels and same coke cans and throw 'em into that blender gizmo and make a Delorean fly all the way back in 1985, and why nothin' been done with that there cold fussion process since THEN, huh?!
Because Delorean has been out of business for a while now.
Soren
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Re: Get off oil/alternate fuels
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
OOOOH! Thanks Soren! That must 'splain it alright!!! But wait a minute! What would keep 'em from experimentin' with a old Yugo or somethin'??? (oh, that's right...just try to find one o' THOSE "babies" nowdays TOO, huh?!..well, never mind then...I suppose that cold fussion technology will be lost to us forever now, huh?!) 
Last edited by Dwight; 07/11/2008 2:24 PM.
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: Get off oil/alternate fuels
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,954
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,954 |
Dwight, have you ever seen an old Yugo (or new one for that matter) trying to get up to 85 mph so that it can break the terminal velocity of the space-time continuum? It ain't pretty... 
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Re: Get off oil/alternate fuels
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 3,971
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 3,971 |
I support our troops. No question about that, and I am
acutely aware of who shares the northern borders of Afghanistan,
but...
What if we had spent the bajillion dollars to do Iraq on
subsidizing our own alternative energy sources
to affordable & cost effective levels instead?
Dontcha hate what ifs?
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Re: Get off oil/alternate fuels
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821 |
Quote:
Yeah?! Well what I wanna know is why Professor Emmett L. Brown could take a few banana peels and same coke cans and throw 'em into that blender gizmo and make a Delorean fly all the way back in 1985, and why nothin' been done with that there cold fussion process since THEN, huh?!
(okay...comedy relief bit over...here's my take on this thing.....)
I'm guessing that we're going to see just about all of the ideas mentioned in this thread comin' down the ol' pike a whole lot QUICKER now that this country's energy needs are front and center in the minds of more americans now.
(because, ya know, people in general have never been especially inclined towards the idea of Pro-activism or "thinkin' ahead" until the ol' "you-know-what" hits that rotating prop...and Lord knows even those people tryin' to unload their Cadillac Escalades today seem to have FINALLY noticed that those fan's blades are NOW caked full of that "you-know-what" stuff, alright!)
This the stuff??? clicky
And your reference to COKE cans gave another theory to the Delorean's power  .
I seem to recall that ol' John ran on a bit of that stuff 
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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