 Forks-are springs/oil our only upgrade options?
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 807
3/4 Throttle
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OP
3/4 Throttle
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 807 |
I've already fitted Hagon Nitros to the rear and I'm looking to improve the front. What forks do we have in there-damper rod or cartridge? I'm assuming we have the former.
Would upgrading to cartridge forks or emulators be possible. Are they model specific? If so, are they available for the Speedie? If not, will I be able to use those of another bike, assuming similar dimension?
Or, am I limited to changes to the springs and oil?
Cheers, Neill
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Re: Forks-are springs/oil our only upgrade options
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 1
Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 1 |
We have damper rods. I'm sure you could install emulators if you were so inclined, some of the Thrux cats on that other forum have gone that route while a few have changed entire front ends. My thinking is that it's only limited by our wallet.
For me, Progressive front springs were a significant difference and suit me fine.
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
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Re: Forks-are springs/oil our only upgrade options
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 568
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 568 |
I'm with OldRoadie, progressive rate springs & 15W fork oil made a noticeable difference in the front end.
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Re: Forks-are springs/oil our only upgrade options
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,877
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,877 |
Quote:
I'm with OldRoadie, progressive rate springs & 15W fork oil made a noticeable difference in the front end.
I did the springs a few years ago, and the oil this year. Both made noticable differences, and it's a fairly cheap way to go, so you aren't out too much if you decide to do more.
Benny
Black & Silver '02
Too many mods to list
Not enough miles ridden
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Re: Forks-are springs/oil our only upgrade options
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,668
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,668 |
Quote:
Quote:
I'm with OldRoadie, progressive rate springs & 15W fork oil made a noticeable difference in the front end.
I did the springs a few years ago, and the oil this year. Both made noticable differences, and it's a fairly cheap way to go, so you aren't out too much if you decide to do more.
So what kind of noticeable difference did these changes make, singularly and collectively? 
Howbeit when He, the Spirit of truth, is come; He will guide you in all truth:
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Re: Forks-are springs/oil our only upgrade options
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 568
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 568 |
Quote:
Quote:
So what kind of noticeable difference did these changes make, singularly and collectively?
Less front end dive on braking, firmer damping overall when riding, more to my liking in general... collectively.
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Re: Forks-are springs/oil our only upgrade options
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,540
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,540 |
I have progressive fork springs and I can say it was like a whole new bike. You can use the front brakes hard and not have to worry about brake dive. Before I would touch them and feel like I was launching over the bars.
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Re: Forks-are springs/oil our only upgrade options
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,877
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,877 |
I still get brake dive, but I guess it's less...
Benny
Black & Silver '02
Too many mods to list
Not enough miles ridden
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Re: Forks-are springs/oil our only upgrade options
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 1
Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 1 |
Quote:
I still get brake dive, but I guess it's less...
Agreed, but it is so much less like a pogo stick and more like a grippy front end 
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
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Re: Forks-are springs/oil our only upgrade options
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,540
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,540 |
Your not going to elimant brake dive. But now you can use the brakes, the speedie is way overbraked and under sprung stock.
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Re: Forks-are springs/oil our only upgrade options
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 568
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 568 |
Quote:
but it is so much less like a pogo stick and more like a grippy front end
That would be a good analogy right there.
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Re: Forks-are springs/oil our only upgrade options
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,877
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,877 |
Yeah I hear ya. More confidence in breaking in less than desirable situations like in a corner...
Benny
Black & Silver '02
Too many mods to list
Not enough miles ridden
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Related: brake upgrades.
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 807
3/4 Throttle
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OP
3/4 Throttle
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 807 |
Never sure whether to start a new thread or continue an old one... Speaking generically, what's the best way to increase performance (including "feel") of a braking system? Discs/pads; calipers; master cylinders? Which is the best upgrade for the money? Am I right in thinking that Tbird Sport discs and calipers (and, therefore, aftermarket/performance upgrades for the same) will fit Speedies? (In case you've not noticed, I'm looking to improve the handling and braking before I look at making my bike go faster. Of course, having a bike that handles and brakes well means you can ride it faster, more safely, anyway.)
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Re: Related: brake upgrades.
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 1
Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 1 |
My best guess is sintered pads and floating rotors give the best money spent upgrade result. Higher cash input: more pistons in the caliper combined with a new master cylinder, even more stopping power. Just depends on how deep your pockets are and how far you want to take it.
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
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Re: Related: brake upgrades.
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,753
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,753 |
i will have a 8 piston caliper and harley master cylinder in a few weeks
Frank
(Former)05 BA tbike pipes, ai removed, Freak, mikuni hsr 42's, 904, ported/polished head, 1mm oversized valves
NOW-2010 silver and black tbird
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 Related: brake upgrades.
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 807
3/4 Throttle
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OP
3/4 Throttle
Joined: Mar 2007
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Frank, let us know how you get on with those. Cost, ease of fitting, performance, etc. 
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Re: Related: brake upgrades.
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,877
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,877 |
I noticed a dramatic difference when I went to floating rotors and new pads. I also bled the brakes which probably helped, but man what a difference...
Benny
Black & Silver '02
Too many mods to list
Not enough miles ridden
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Re: Related: brake upgrades.
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,639 Likes: 3
Old Hand
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Old Hand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,639 Likes: 3 |
A braided hose will help a lot with the feel.
Let's hope there's intelligent life somewhere in space 'cause it's buggar all down here. -- Monte Python
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Related: brake upgrades.
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 807
3/4 Throttle
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OP
3/4 Throttle
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 807 |
I'm pretty sure 07 Speedie stock brake cable is already braided, it's just covered in black rubber, rather than stainless wrap. Correct me if I'm wrong. 
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Re: Related: brake upgrades.
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 1
Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 1 |
Quote:
I noticed a dramatic difference when I went to floating rotors and new pads.
Hey, Benny, what did you put on? My wish list has grown very short and I need some new ideas 
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
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Re: Related: brake upgrades.
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825
"Lighten up, Francis."
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"Lighten up, Francis."
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825 |
I'll jump in. I put on the EBC floating rotor and sintered pads, along with a braided hose, from Brent and it made a big difference.
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Re: Related: brake upgrades.
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,877
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,877 |
Quote:
I'll jump in. I put on the EBC floating rotor and sintered pads, along with a braided hose, from Brent and it made a big difference.
Um ditto. 
Benny
Black & Silver '02
Too many mods to list
Not enough miles ridden
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Opinions/help/advice required. Fork spring change.
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 807
3/4 Throttle
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OP
3/4 Throttle
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 807 |
Me, again. I've just installed Hagon progressive fork springs (springs only) and when I compress the forks, there's a grinding noise, as though the springs are rubbing against the inside of the fork tube. I just dropped the springs in: is there some sort of locating bit in there? Looking on Biklebandit's schematics, there is something there but I don't know it if goes underneath or inside/around the spring, to centre it. Before I refitted the fork-tube cap, the spring itself wasn't sticking up any further than the stock one. Please help, I wanna go out and take advantage of this rare bit of sun we're having.
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Re: Opinions/help/advice required. Fork spring change.
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,671 Likes: 15
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,671 Likes: 15 |
The bottom line is that your front braking is going to be limited by your front tire traction no matter what brake "upgrades" are done. My 07 SM is a one-finger stopper as it is, with good modulation/feel, so what exactly would need improving?
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Re: Opinions/help/advice required. Fork spring change.
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,440
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,440 |
Quote:
My 07 SM is a one-finger stopper as it is, with good modulation/feel, so what exactly would need improving?
Same here. I'd like to have less front end dive, but the brake itself works very well.
Jack
'08 America Blue/White; Custom Headlamps, Custom Lowers, Clearview 20", Bafflectomy
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Re: Opinions/help/advice required. Fork spring change.
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,244 Likes: 64
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,244 Likes: 64 |
I don't think you can improve the amount of stopping power on the front of a SM or America, you can easily lock either front wheel. You can improve the feel but not actual stopping power in my opinion. Now in the case of the America I feel you can improve the stopping power under extreme usage since the single disc would tend to get hotter than the dual disc of the SM, thus you would get fade sooner. The composition of the pad is important as well since some compounds will fade before others. You could go as far as ceramic pads but those would wear out the rotor way before it's time, while organic pads will save your rotor. Best way to go is middle of the road, again in my opinion, with semi-metalic. Those will give you best of both worlds but neither extreme.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Opinions/help/advice required. Fork spring change.
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,671 Likes: 15
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,671 Likes: 15 |
[quote...I'd like to have less front end dive, but the brake itself works very well...Jack
Ahh, well then....you need Progressive fork springs & 15wt. oil! 
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 Opinions/help/advice required. Fork spring change.
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 807
3/4 Throttle
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OP
3/4 Throttle
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 807 |
Regarding the fork springs, I've answered my own question: the grinding noise was due to the fact that the springs were new and dry. I got back from a run today and everything is normal. Yay!! I would recommend this mod. to anyone...to be done before any other modification. I just can't stress how much of a change it's made; it's like a new bike. Regarding the oil, I weigh 12 stone (170lb/76kg) and the stock oil seems fine. If you're a little-or a lot- bigger, you may need to adjust accordingly. Fitting the springs, assuming no oil change, is a doddle. Jack (Lazy-), if you want less front-end dive, get some new springs in there.
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Braking
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 807
3/4 Throttle
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OP
3/4 Throttle
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Posts: 807 |
Quote:
The bottom line is that your front braking is going to be limited by your front tire traction no matter what brake "upgrades" are done.
Agreed...and I also agree that the brakes on my Speedie work really well but it takes a good tug on the brake lever/stamp on the pedal. And I really like to know what's going on underneath me when I do pull the lever, which the current set-up doesn't give me. I just wanna know what options are out there.
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Re: Braking
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,671 Likes: 15
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,671 Likes: 15 |
Quote:
...it takes a good tug on the brake lever/stamp on the pedal. And I really like to know what's going on underneath me when I do pull the lever, which the current set-up doesn't give me...
Interesting. My SM has good modulation & stops almost as well as my S4. What year SM do you have & how many miles are on it?
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Re: Braking
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 807
3/4 Throttle
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OP
3/4 Throttle
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 807 |
07 SM, 4500 miles. The brakes are great in terms of stopping power...but it's a case of pull the lever and stop, rather than pull the the lever, feel what's going on under me...and stop. Mind you, I think the whole bike's like that: it'll do it, it just doesn't give much feedback whilst it's doing it. I think I'll stop worrying about it.
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