 Kill a biker, go to jail!
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Monkey Butt
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OP
Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,630 Likes: 7 |
As some of you may know, I am running for the legislature here in Iowa. One of the things that has always bugged me is when a cager kills a biker and uses the old “I didn’t see him†excuse. Too many of them get away with nothing more than a moving violation and a fine. I’m thinking there needs to be a stronger punishment than that. Vehicular Manslaughter? Reckless Disregard? What do you guys think would be appropriate? I’m not saying lock them up and throw away the key but killing, or injuring, someone should have consequences. Most of you are fairly thoughtful and mature, what do you think?
We all like to think of ourselves as rugged individualists. But when push comes to shove most of us are sheep who do what we are told. Worst of all, a lot of us become unpaid agents of whoever is controlling the agenda by enforcing the current dogma on the few rugged individualists who actually exist.
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Re: Kill a biker, go to jail!
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,164 Likes: 1 |
What is the difference between Vehicular Manslaughter and Reckless Disregard? Which one has a stiffer penalty?
Soren
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Re: Kill a biker, go to jail!
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821 |
While jail certainly would be appropriate, I think restitution may have more lasting effect, in addition to or instead of jail depending on the individual circumstances. Were drugs or alcohol involved? Reckless driving? distraction( cell phone)? etc.
And by restitution, I mean making significant payments for the rest of their life. No payoff, no escape via bankruptcy or other means. Make a payment every month for the remainder of their life. That way, they have to think about it at least once a month.
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Kill a biker, go to jail!
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Joined: Jan 2006
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,706 Likes: 24 |
I think the assertion is flawed. IMHO I have never seen a case of a fatal accident where the, at fault, driver was given a reduced penalty because they hit a bike.
Unless you are saying bikers are more valuable than cagers for some reason.
It leaves me thinking, hmmm, I would pull out and kill that biker but now they do jail time so I think I won't change lanes. The penalty in this type of accident has no bearing on correction of behavior. Unless penalties correct or limit behavior they are just penalties.
Nobody intentionally does that type of bonehead move. They regret it forever once the tragedy happens. I am not sure what you would like to accomplish. Revenge maybe. Have you ever met anybody who accidentally killed another? They pay for it, believe me.
Bill has a good idea if the crime was drinking, racing, drugs etc. If it applied to all fatal accidents, not just bikers. What do you do with a biker that kills somebody? I guess they are less at fault because we like bikers.
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
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Re: Kill a biker, go to jail!
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Saddle Sore
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Saddle Sore
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Posts: 5,172 |
I'm not up on the laws involved, but the penalties should be the same, based on the circumstances, as those that apply to any other vehicular accident with the same circumstances.
More flags
More fun!
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Re: Kill a biker, go to jail!
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Joined: Feb 2005
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
Hey Larry, here's an admitedly "off-the-wall" idea for ya: Each person charged with causing a deadly accident(or for that matter, ANY charges filed at all against any defendant) is only allowed to spend "X-amount" of money in which to hire a lawyer to argue their case for them...REGARDLESS of their financial situation.(pro bono not withstanding, of course) You see, in this way you'd REALLY HAVE "equal justice under law", and Richie Rich would have as good a shot at eventually roomin' with Mongo and Leroy in Maximum Security as some poor shmuck would! How's THAT grab ya, dude? Sounds FAIR to ME! Why don't you run with this idea when you start your tenure there in the Iowa Legislature? (though for some reason I have the distinct feeling that a lot of your fellow lawmakers/lawyers there might not get on board with this) 
Last edited by Dwight; 05/30/2008 3:14 AM.
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Re: Kill a biker, go to jail!
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Joined: Aug 2006
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,555 |
I kinda agree with saxtron on this one. The penalties should be the same as if you kill a biker or cager.
But the "I did not see him" defence should be disallowed.
Come up with a law that would efectivly ban that defence.
make it somthing like if a person wanted to use "I didnt see him" he would have to prove himself leagally blind.
Put a couple questions on the state drivers test related to motorcycles, and have one of them refer to the new "I didnt see em" law.
Now if drugs or alcolhol are involed then the old Soviet form of execution would be appropriate ...a single bullet to the back of the head. Quick humane and it makes a point.
The percentage you're paying is too high-priced
While you're living beyond all your means
And the man in the suit has just bought a new car
From the profit he's made on your dreams
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Re: Kill a biker, go to jail!
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,555
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,555 |
Quote:
Hey Larry, here's an admitedly "off-the-wall" idea for ya:
Each person charged with causing a deadly accident(or for that matter, ANY charges filed at all against any defendant) is only allowed to spend "X-amount" of money in which to hire a lawyer to argue their case for them...REGARDLESS of their financial situation.(pro bono not withstanding, of course)
You see, in this way you'd REALLY HAVE "equal justice under law", and Richie Rich would have as good a shot at eventually roomin' with Mongo and Leroy in Maximum Security as some poor shmuck would!
How's THAT grab ya, dude? Sounds FAIR to ME! Why don't you run with this idea when you start your tenure there in the Iowa Legislature?
(though for some reason I have the distinct feeling that a lot of your fellow lawmakers/lawyers there might not get on board with this)
It would be simpler Dwight if the state provided leagal defence for all persons charged with a crime.If convicted
the defendant would then be jailed (if called for) then billed. If aquitted the state would pick up the tab. Might be fewer bullshirt arrests that way.
The percentage you're paying is too high-priced
While you're living beyond all your means
And the man in the suit has just bought a new car
From the profit he's made on your dreams
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Re: Kill a biker, go to jail!
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,518 Likes: 32 |
Bedouin.
Blessed are those eyes that have seen more roads than any man! (Homer).
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Re: Kill a biker, go to jail!
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Old Hand
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Old Hand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,639 Likes: 3 |
In the very least, "I didn't see the 5 1/2 X 3 X 8 foot object with a big bright headlight right in the middle of the front, reflectors front and back on the sides and a big bright tail light and more reflectors in the back", is an admission to not being able to see well enough to drive. Pull their license forever for being too blind to be allowed out on the road.
Then, hit them with exactly the same penalties that would be imposed if a biker crashed into a cage and inflicted the same damage.
Let's hope there's intelligent life somewhere in space 'cause it's buggar all down here. -- Monte Python
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 Re: Kill a biker, go to jail!
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Joined: Jun 2006
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,626 |
If you kill somebody the penalty should be the same regardless of the weapon you used or where the person was located.
In other words, manslaughter is manslaughter, if you hit them with a car, "accidentally" pushed them off a building, or let a fire get out of controll and burned down a building.
It should be the same if they were on a motorcycle, on a bicycle, in a car, walking, or sitting in a chair.
Steelheart- '03 Speedmaster Black/Yellow
The Hayabusa Killa
16" Shorties/140 mains/Airbox drilled
Procom CDI
"There is no cure for Celibacy. But we can treat the symptoms."
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Re: Kill a biker, go to jail!
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Joined: Jul 2006
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3/4 Throttle
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3/4 Throttle
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I agree with Brian. The punishment should be consistent regardless of what caused the death. The problem, as I see it, is how judges apply the law. They usually have wide latitude of punsihment and with the over crowded jails they don't impose heavy punishment for traffic related deaths. Someone shoots someone-they go to jail. Run over someone- 'I hated to ruin a person's life because that is the only mistake they have ever made.'
Redbike7
2006 America
No amount of skill can overcome gross stupidity. Ask me how I know...never mind, I forgot...
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Re: Kill a biker, go to jail!
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,074
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,074 |
As a long standing member of ABATE?
I can say this is one of the things we work to correct.
If your not a member?
Join.
If your not sure what ABATE in your state is?
Check them out.
It is NOT a Club.
It's a grass roots thing that actually gives you a lot of clout!
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Re: Kill a biker, go to jail!
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,626
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,626 |
Quote:
I agree with Brian. The punishment should be consistent regardless of what caused the death. The problem, as I see it, is how judges apply the law. They usually have wide latitude of punsihment and with the over crowded jails they don't impose heavy punishment for traffic related deaths. Someone shoots someone-they go to jail. Run over someone- 'I hated to ruin a person's life because that is the only mistake they have ever made.'
But Manslaughter is, I believe, an accidental death.
If you shoot some one, it's kinda on purpose.
Steelheart- '03 Speedmaster Black/Yellow
The Hayabusa Killa
16" Shorties/140 mains/Airbox drilled
Procom CDI
"There is no cure for Celibacy. But we can treat the symptoms."
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Re: Kill a biker, go to jail!
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 15
Complete Newb
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Complete Newb
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 15 |
Don't fixate on just punishment for killing bikers. If you want a piece of legislation to be well received, look at a well rounded package in terms of education, enforcement, AND punishment. Education: require driver's education courses and licensing tests to have a section that focuses on awareness of motorcyclists (and scooters, bikes, trail horses, etc). Education isn't just for the cagers. Being safe and smart keeps us alive. Look for DOT incentives to get riders to take MSF courses. For instance, make it more enticing (easier/cheaper) to take the MSF and get educated and licensed than to just get temps and muddle your way into a crash. Enforcement: Educate LEO on the additional hazards that motorcyclists face (credits for MSF training would be great). Have law enforcement issue citations to people that cause hazards for motorcyclists whether there was an accident or not, because the first accident can be fatal. Punishment: Killing anyone should certainly have a pretty hefty punishment. Mandatory jail is a tough one to get people to vote for (and an issue for you to get elected on) and judges don't like laws that don't give them the ability to weigh the contributing factors (and we know no biker has ever ridden drunk, right?). But don't just focus on dead bikers. In WI we have a law that any accident involving a motorcycle requires the driver that injured the motorcyclist to take additional driver's education classes. And that can be backed up by suspending their license. Here's a brief write up of the laws we got a couple years ago here: http://www.amadirectlink.com/news/2006/WIlaw.aspGood luck, and thanks for trying to keep bikers alive.
Last edited by Milio; 05/30/2008 11:22 PM.
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Re: Kill a biker, go to jail!
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Joined: Feb 2005
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
I don't know about the rest of you folks, but this new guy Milio here seems to see the "Big Picture"(and most sides of this thing) pretty darn well!!!  (hey Milio...let me know if YOU ever decide to run for any office out there, 'cause dude, you've got MY vote!)
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: Kill a biker, go to jail!
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 401
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 401 |
Couldn't you just string them up by their nuts? 
The path of excess leads to the Palace of Wisdom
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Re: Kill a biker, go to jail!
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Joined: Jul 2006
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3/4 Throttle
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3/4 Throttle
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Not really. People fool with guns all the time and accidentally shoot themselves or other people.
Redbike7
2006 America
No amount of skill can overcome gross stupidity. Ask me how I know...never mind, I forgot...
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Re: Kill a biker, go to jail!
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Old Hand
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Old Hand
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Quote:
Not really. People fool with guns all the time and accidentally shoot themselves or other people.
Even a VP or two. 
Let's hope there's intelligent life somewhere in space 'cause it's buggar all down here. -- Monte Python
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Re: Kill a biker, go to jail!
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,877
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,877 |
You guys have to think in terms of the "offenders" actions, not the outcome. You are assuming a fatal accident. What about people who survive the accident? Were the actions of the cage EXACTLY the same? Probably, could be...
Or for instance, if there was DUI involved, what difference does it make if they hit someone, kill someone, or run into a tree? The point is they DROVE DRUNK!! They should be punnished for that.
I'm not saying let people go who kill someone, but the point is, whether or not someone survives an accident depends on MANY factors. Proximity to first aid/hospitals, riding gear, speed of the bike, what they land on, etc. I mean you can get hit and recieve a relatively minor injury of a bad cut and bleed to death if you don't get help. Or if someone runs you off the road and leaves the scene, you can lay in a ditch for two days un-noticed... Meanwhile a guy can have massive neck injuries and survive, albeit paralized, because the crash happened in front of a hospital.
So I say see the big picture like Milio said. Don't fixate on dead bikers. Fixate on bad drivers and having more consistant punnishments for ACTIONS. I also like the idea of throwing out the "I didn't see him" defense. Well then you shouldn't be driving...
Benny
Black & Silver '02
Too many mods to list
Not enough miles ridden
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Re: Kill a biker, go to jail!
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Old Hand
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Old Hand
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Posts: 8,639 Likes: 3 |
Quote:
Or for instance, if there was DUI involved, what difference does it make if they hit someone, kill someone, or run into a tree? The point is they DROVE DRUNK!! They should be punished for that.
Unfortunately, punishment doesn't seem to be effective in a lot of these cases. For example, there was mention in the local paper the other day about some fool who was jailed without chance of bail for his 7th DUI. he's been jailed, sent to rehab, had his license revoked, etc but it just hasn't registered in his broken little mind that driving drunk will get him into trouble.
I am at a loss as to how to deal with the habitual drunk driver. Jail time, fines and revoked licenses don't seem to do anything. Local custom prohibits amputating hands and feet to prevent driving. Lifetime incarceration would be effective, but maybe impractical. The breathalizer controlled cars won't really work because the drunks will just go buy, borrow or steal another. Maybe an implanted alcohol detector that tazers the idiots into oblivion on the first drink?
Let's hope there's intelligent life somewhere in space 'cause it's buggar all down here. -- Monte Python
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Re: Kill a biker, go to jail!
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Joined: Feb 2005
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
...OR...maybe contacting "Guido"(with his .22 calibre and silenced pistol) to help society rid it of idiots like that, GB.
(in fact, I'd be more than happy to put a call into New Jersey at this very moment, if only you'd supply me with the name and address of that idiot who's been arrested SEVEN FRIGGIN' TIMES for a DUI!...yep!...it'd be MY PLEASURE alright!)
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: Kill a biker, go to jail!
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,877
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,877 |
Quote:
Unfortunately, punishment doesn't seem to be effective in a lot of these cases.
I agree. I guess my point was, maybe the punnishment for DUI should be a LOT higher, since that is the problem, whether or not they actually hit someone.
Benny
Black & Silver '02
Too many mods to list
Not enough miles ridden
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Re: Kill a biker, go to jail!
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825
"Lighten up, Francis."
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"Lighten up, Francis."
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825 |
Quote:
I think the assertion is flawed. IMHO I have never seen a case of a fatal accident where the, at fault, driver was given a reduced penalty because they hit a bike.
I've been wondering about this. Sure we all get P.O.'d when we see a story about someone who got off with "a slap on the wrist" after killing a motorcyclist. But has anyone researched if this happens more with motorcyclist victims vs. pedestrians or other cagers? Could be a larger problem, for example, the courts overburdened with victimless crimes give short shrift to the victims of vehicular accidents? Skewed legalistic priorities, perhaps? (I'm looking at you, War on Drugs, and Prostitution Stings.)
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Re: Kill a biker, go to jail!
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Saddle Sore
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Saddle Sore
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,172 |
Once again, we're tilting at windmills here. My memory of details is totally gonzo, but I think the most flagrant travesties of justice were the Senator/Representative from South Dakota that cut the HD rider in half when he failed to stop at an intersection and was speeding, and another incident down south where a local legislator killed a rider and later there was a motion to name the same highway after said bozo. Both of these situations were publicized by the AMA. These are the accidents that raise our collective hackles....
Increasing the penalties for Joe Average who stops for a few on his way home from work and gets busted by the DUI patrol, thus taking away his job and ruining his life is not the answer.
More flags
More fun!
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Re: Kill a biker, go to jail!
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Joined: Jul 2006
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3/4 Throttle
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3/4 Throttle
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Where the ****** are the motorcycle manufacturers and lobby support? Lobbyists-like them or hate them-are an important part of the legislative process in both states and national politics. The manufacturers should take a little of the billions we spend every year and put a lobby in place that has the rights of the riders foremost.
Redbike7
2006 America
No amount of skill can overcome gross stupidity. Ask me how I know...never mind, I forgot...
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Re: Kill a biker, go to jail!
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Joined: Feb 2005
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
Quote:
Increasing the penalties for Joe Average who stops for a few on his way home from work and gets busted by the DUI patrol, thus taking away his job and ruining his life is not the answer.
I agree with that for the most part Deon, just as long as this fella "Joe Average" isn't RE-arrested a "few times" over the course of his lifetime for this offense, that is.
And if he or JOSEPHINE Average is RE-arrested...THEN I say we put that call in to New Jersey and contract...err...CONTACT "Guido", because....I'M REALLY FRIGGIN' TIRED OF THOSE YO-YOs OUT THERE WHO WON'T LEARN THEIR FRIGGIN' LESSON THAT THEY HAVE A FRIGGIN' PROBLEM WITH ALCOHOL AND CONTINUE TO DRIVE DRUNK, because alcohol related accidents account for a disproportionate number of fatalities!!!!
(gee...ya think I made myself CLEAR on this???!!!)
Last edited by Dwight; 06/04/2008 12:28 PM.
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: Kill a biker, go to jail!
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Joined: Jul 2006
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3/4 Throttle
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3/4 Throttle
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A guy was driving over 70 in a 30 zone with his wife and kid in the car, drinking, when he ran through a red light and killed a woman. Three years later this A******* finally came to trial. He got some kind of probation where he sleeps in a half-way house at night for a year.
This is inexcusable. If he had walked up to that woman and shot her he have been in the pen since day one. Not only did he kill a woman but he endangered all of the people on the streets he was on and his wife and child. (She divorced his a**.) He was as much a threat as a guy with a gun.
This is called accountability and if Joe Average screws up, he needs to pay for it.
Redbike7
2006 America
No amount of skill can overcome gross stupidity. Ask me how I know...never mind, I forgot...
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Re: Kill a biker, go to jail!
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Joined: Feb 2007
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,248 Likes: 64 |
I know here in PA the penalties get much worse each time someone is arrested for DUI. There is also a device, not sure how often it is used, but the driver has to breathe into the device before he can start the car. If he doesn't pass the device will not allow the car to start. The car won't start in the first place either so if you were thinking just get in and don't blow into it that won't work, you have to in order for the car to start.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Kill a biker, go to jail!
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Joined: Jul 2006
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3/4 Throttle
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3/4 Throttle
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In Texas it seems to be who you are or who you know. Some people go up the river and some skate-especially if you are in the legislature. Automatic get out of jail free card.
Redbike7
2006 America
No amount of skill can overcome gross stupidity. Ask me how I know...never mind, I forgot...
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Re: Kill a biker, go to jail!
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,555
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,555 |
Quote:
In Texas it seems to be who you are or who you know. Some people go up the river and some skate-especially if you are in the legislature. Automatic get out of jail free card.
Its not just Tejas mi amigo...Its a nation wide phenomenon.
The percentage you're paying is too high-priced
While you're living beyond all your means
And the man in the suit has just bought a new car
From the profit he's made on your dreams
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Re: Kill a biker, go to jail!
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,172
Saddle Sore
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Saddle Sore
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,172 |
I guess the point I failed to make is that there is a big difference between stopping at the local "pub" for a few brewskies and being a raging alcoholic with a record. But the laws and the police do not take that into account. It's one size fits all. In Pa, the BAC limit is .08, I think. If you have a CDL (commercial driver's license) it is .04 - it doesn't matter if you are driving a commercial vehicle at the time. You get stopped at a DUI checkpoint and have had a few and you can lose your license/job in one fell swoop...
The punishment should fit the crime. I agree that we need to identify and get the habitual drunks off the road.. and if Joe/Jolene Average cross that line then they need to pay the penalty as well. But the circumstances need to be weighed before sentencing is passed - otherwise just close down all the pubs, bars, and taverns and reinstate prohibition.
Ban bikes too. They're dangerous. Cigarettes. Red meat. Sugar. Flour. Eggs.
Put speed limiters on all vehicles.
It's called personal responsibility - use it or lose it.
You can't child-proof the world. The punishment should fit the crime.....
More flags
More fun!
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Re: Kill a biker, go to jail!
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 948
3/4 Throttle
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3/4 Throttle
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I agree personality responsibility is the key. I remember Sweden had a big problem years ago and they reduced their DUI by over half and they consider .02 under the influence! Interesting link below. http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=113056
Redbike7
2006 America
No amount of skill can overcome gross stupidity. Ask me how I know...never mind, I forgot...
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Re: Kill a biker, go to jail!
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 148
Adjunct
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Adjunct
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Posts: 148 |
I was passing through Boise,ID. on I-84 the other day. The freeway info signs on both sides of the city were flashing "Watch for Motorcyclists", then would flash "look twice save a life". Pretty neat huh?
I think many drivers just see us as a smaller object comming down the road and an opportunity for them to jump in. No matter whether they are drunk or on the cell phone. We dont register as a threat. I do know it is a lot safer here in Idaho than it was in Southern California 20 years ago.
Mike
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Re: Kill a biker, go to jail!
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Joined: Feb 2005
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
Quote:
We dont register as a threat.
And thus, even though WE may have the right-of-way in many traffic situations, NEVER ASSUME that the cagers out there will recognize their responibility to yield.(but I know you know this already)
Quote:
I do know it is a lot safer here in Idaho than it was in Southern California 20 years ago.
Well, I'd guess that could be because in bucolic Idaho there's "probably" not as many cagers as in urbanize SoCal.
Sort'a tends to keep one on their toes(and two fingers on that there front brake lever a whole lot) around here, ya know. 
BUT, maybe the GOOD PART of all this SoCal living is that whenever I read of all the folks around here getting cut-off or even downed by the cagers during what they call their "riding season" where the WINTERS SUCK, it seems to me I read a whole lot of posts around here saying to "be careful because those cagers AREN'T used to seeing us out there during this so-called "riding season". But HERE in SUNNY SoCal, most those yo-yos in their cars out there see us YEAR AROUND on our bikes, and thus this particular "phenomenon" doesn't usually apply!!! 
(yeah...I admit it...I LOVE rubbin' the great SoCal weather in the noses of those "up there" and "back there" in the hinterlands...so SUE ME!!!)
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: Kill a biker, go to jail!
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Loquacious
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Quote:
Quote:
We dont register as a threat.
And thus, even though WE may have the right-of-way in many traffic situations, NEVER ASSUME that the cagers out there will recognize their responibility to yield.(but I know you know this already)
Quote:
I do know it is a lot safer here in Idaho than it was in Southern California 20 years ago.
Well, I'd guess that could be because in bucolic Idaho there's "probably" not as many cagers as in urbanize SoCal.
Sort'a tends to keep one on their toes(and two fingers on that there front brake lever a whole lot) around here, ya know.
BUT, maybe the GOOD PART of all this SoCal living is that whenever I read of all the folks around here getting cut-off or even downed by the cagers during what they call their "riding season" where the WINTERS SUCK, it seems to me I read a whole lot of posts around here saying to "be careful because those cagers AREN'T used to seeing us out there during this so-called "riding season". But HERE in SUNNY SoCal, most those yo-yos in their cars out there see us YEAR AROUND on our bikes, and thus this particular "phenomenon" doesn't usually apply!!!
(yeah...I admit it...I LOVE rubbin' the great SoCal weather in the noses of those "up there" and "back there" in the hinterlands...so SUE ME!!!)
You will be hearing from my attorney shortly,,,you have caused me great psycological damage and emotional distress...how ever an out of court settlement is not out of the question.
The percentage you're paying is too high-priced
While you're living beyond all your means
And the man in the suit has just bought a new car
From the profit he's made on your dreams
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Re: Kill a biker, go to jail!
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,639 Likes: 3
Old Hand
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Old Hand
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As for weather, I'm at about the same altitude and latitude as Gorman pass, and the weather is about the same, only the ground isn't so shaky. 
Let's hope there's intelligent life somewhere in space 'cause it's buggar all down here. -- Monte Python
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Re: Kill a biker, go to jail!
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
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Well, why do ya think I have that other place in Prescott, GB??? It's because when California falls off into the ocean(as I hear a whole lot of those frozen and weather envious "Hinterlanders" wish it would from time to time 'round here ), then I'LL HAVE that beachfront property I've always wanted but could never really afford before!!!  You see, YOU'LL still be way over there MILES and MILES from my "New Big Sur", still sittin' there in the middle o' nowhere...kind'a like a "New Indio" or maybe a "New Blythe"!!! 
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: Kill a biker, go to jail!
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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(...or maybe a "New Barstow")
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: Kill a biker, go to jail!
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I think the biggest thing you could do to improve biker safety is to outlaw cell phone use when driving a car. My guess is that's what's responsible for the 100% increase in motorcycle fatalities over the past 10 years. Another quess is that cell phones contribute to more fatalities than alchohol. 
Hate workin' for the man...
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Re: Kill a biker, go to jail!
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3/4 Throttle
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3/4 Throttle
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I think it has been proven that a person involved in a cell phone conversation is just as impaired as someone drinking.
Redbike7
2006 America
No amount of skill can overcome gross stupidity. Ask me how I know...never mind, I forgot...
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Re: Kill a biker, go to jail!
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
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Posts: 12,877 |
Quote:
I agree that we need to identify and get the habitual drunks off the road
I agree, but if it's already a habit/habitual, then it's too late. Each and every time someone impared drives, there is that increased chance they will hurt someone. First time, 5th time, 1000th time, doesn't matter. That's why they come up with a number like .08. They need some (fair?) standard for everyone. Maybe someone will blow higher than that immediately after they finish a beer? Not sure, but I think there was a mythbusters episode on that too... The solution is real simple, just not easy.
Benny
Black & Silver '02
Too many mods to list
Not enough miles ridden
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Re: Kill a biker, go to jail!
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Adjunct
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Adjunct
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I agree with Deon here. Severe punishment gets you no where. I also agree with the above statement that someone who accidently kills another pays for it the rest of there life, regardless of the "punishment" set by "law" . Punishment doesn't work because not enough people have been educated about said punishment. Blame it on the media or whoever here, it really doesn't matter.
That being said, I think Milio had some great ideas. Education is the key here. MSF classes are a great thing for anyone (not to mention they are fun). I believe that if people were aware of how easy it is to "not see a motorcyclist" they would be a little more cautious. Incorporating motorcycle awareness into drivers training and also having some questions regarding motorcycles on the drivers test could help immensely. Questions like: If a motorcyclist flashes his lights at you, does that mean that he has given you the right of way?; True or False: The reason for following motorcycles at a greater distance is because motorcycles take longer to slow down that cars.; When a motorcycle is behind you, you should: A. Slow down. B. Speed Up. C. Pull off to the right side of your lane of travel so that the motorcyclist may pass you more easily (this one annoys the ****** out of me). D. Maintain speed.; etc., etc. It doesn't take long to come up with some good questions, sampling questions from the motorcycle license test for the normal drivers test may not be a bad idea either.
Another thing that would be nice would be some simple simulators. Things like: pulling out of an intersection and a motorcycle is coming your way. Possibly use the same type of optical illusion that MSF had on their website about the reason sometimes people don't see an oncoming motorcycle (everyone loves an optical illusion, maybe it will click that people need to take extra caution when pulling out of a driveway or intersection). Also, and I like this one, as I was run off the road tonight: have someone put a cardboard cut out of a motorcycle in the drivers blind spot after they have parallel parked during the driving test. Make them realize that they must look over their shoulder when changing lanes because there could be another vehicle there.
O,K, I'm done with my rant.
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Re: Kill a biker, go to jail!
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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Excellent suggestions there, Dave!!! (and also well said!!!) HOWEVER...(and call me a "glass-half-empty" sort'a guy here if ya want here)...I really wonder if ANYTHING, be it "driver education" or "punishment" is EVER going to get a vast majority of cagers(or for THAT MATTER even the vast majority of M/C riders) to become more proficient and conscientious operators of their vehicles? You see, I've always felt that this "healthy sense of suspicion" I possess about the apparent general lack of competence that most operators of motor vehicles in this country demonstrate daily(a sense that I've cultivated over my 56 years on this planet, and over 41 years of ridin' on these things known as motorcycles) is the MAIN REASON that I'm STILL ALIVE after all these years and able to type this here response to you! In other words...I don't think the "average american" is either all that bright and/or able to digest a whole lot of "education" that won't fit into their little philosophy that their wants and needs should mostly come first and the heck with looking out for somebody else" OR anything other then THEIR little priorities in life! And I BETCHA we motocycle rider are pretty looooow on THEIR list of priorities, and always WILL BE!!! And so, I don't think the idea that we're ever going to "educate" a vast majority of those folks out there TO SEE US isn't necessarilly a "pragmatic vision", my friend! But, I suppose it's worth a shot, huh?! But of course THAT probably would mean(shutter!!!)RAISING TAXES to PAY for this "new education" ya know??? And given the present american mindset about THAT, well...my GUESS is that that RIGHT THERE is gonna be a "deal breaker" dude!!! (hey...now didn't I tell ya I might be one o' those "glass-half-empty" sort'a guys???)
Last edited by Dwight; 06/16/2008 2:22 AM.
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Re: Kill a biker, go to jail!
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Thanks Dwight,
I agree with you, most people are incompetent and probably don't deserve to be walking let alone driving.
I don't see any of that requiring too much of a tax hike. Most of it is just taking some of the questions from the motorcycle test and putting them into the appropriate hand outs and the driver's test. Wait until the new years handouts are being made up and put the revisions in them. Coordinating with MSF could save some $. But, then again, we are talking about our government and there needs to be a comity headed by the governor's brother for everything.
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Re: Kill a biker, go to jail!
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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You're probably right about the costs being somewhat negligible when it would come to emphasizing to drivers their need to watch out for motorcyclists as they first apply for(or even renew) their drivers licenses. However, I think you understand the point I was making there. It seems eventually most people "forget their lessons" after awhile, and that's why it'll always pretty much be incumbent upon us as motorcyclists to watch out for the other guy, as WE will always be the most vulnerable out there. (I mean, I don't know about YOU, but I can't remember a darn thing about high school Algebra anymore...see how we can all often "forget our lessons"???!!!)
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: Kill a biker, go to jail!
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Complete Newb
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Complete Newb
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I would have to agree the old trick they use in court is I didn't see the motorcycle and get a slap on the hand. Far too many times I have seen drivers slam on there brakes to avoid hitting a animal in the road as small as a squirrel but cant see the biker with headlights on. Drivers need to pay for the crime. Go to jail for vehicular manslaughter.
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Re: Kill a biker, go to jail!
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,639 Likes: 3
Old Hand
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Old Hand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,639 Likes: 3 |
Quote:
I would have to agree the old trick they use in court is I didn't see the motorcycle and get a slap on the hand. Far too many times I have seen drivers slam on there brakes to avoid hitting a animal in the road as small as a squirrel but cant see the biker with headlights on. Drivers need to pay for the crime. Go to jail for vehicular manslaughter.
I still think "I didn't see the motorcycle that was in plain sight" should be taken as an admission that they are too blind to drive and their license should be permanently revoked on the spot.
Let's hope there's intelligent life somewhere in space 'cause it's buggar all down here. -- Monte Python
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Re: Kill a biker, go to jail!
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,877
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
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Posts: 12,877 |
Quote:
I still think "I didn't see the motorcycle that was in plain sight" should be taken as an admission that they are too blind to drive and their license should be permanently revoked on the spot.
I agree!
Benny
Black & Silver '02
Too many mods to list
Not enough miles ridden
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Re: Kill a biker, go to jail!
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Explain to me why one person is worth more than another?
In Ct last weekend A 17 year girl old was killed in a single car accedent. Tragic yes. She was driving alone ran off the road.Struck a tree and was killed. Key words here SINGLE CAR ACCDENT, YOUNG DRIVER, RAN OFF ROAD. What does that tell you?
It was front page news in the papers. Full report on televsion.
Sunday a 37 yr old motorcylist was killed in what looks to me like an "I didnt see him" case. Tragic yes.
It recived about 6 lines in the Hartford Current burried in the "towns" section.
Oh well another toothless dirty biker bites the dust, who gives a ****** right?
Whats my point? Getting any type of harsher pounishment for the "I didnt see em" pin heads out there would be impossible
so long as the "oh well another biker bought it" attitude prevails.
You want to do somthing Mr Politico? get your states papers to put it on the front page. Make it a law big bold type.
"I DIDNT SEE EM" put the asshats picture with it. State web site of "I didnt see em" asshats.Would be good too. Just maybe sombodyed notice.
The percentage you're paying is too high-priced
While you're living beyond all your means
And the man in the suit has just bought a new car
From the profit he's made on your dreams
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Re: Kill a biker, go to jail!
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 948
3/4 Throttle
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3/4 Throttle
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I hear you and could not agree more. A bicyclist clips a trailer when she turned onto a highway from a side road and the hue and cry is amazing. 'Oh we must do something about the bicyclists-share the road, etc" The paper went into great detail about who she was and her family, etc.
A woman in an SUV pulls out from a side street crossing a major higway and a BMW 1200 T-bones her. The paper noted he was wearing a helmet. The paper never mentioned he had 3 children, was a EE and had worked at Dell since it was founded-in other words apparently a good citizen.
I wasn't there and I can't say for sure, but I see bicycle riders zip through stop signs like they don't exist and clipping a trailer of a vehicle that had the right of way is suspicious, in my mind.
Two people are dead and that's a shame but the Cit of Austin spends millions on special lanes for bicycles-and I have nothing against that. The only time they do something for the motorcycles is like last week during the Republic of Texas Rally that brought 250,000 people and 40,000 motorcycles to town( and bunches of dollars). They put a "share the road -motorcycles are everywhere" on the Amber Alert signs.
Yeah, we are second class citizens.
Redbike7
2006 America
No amount of skill can overcome gross stupidity. Ask me how I know...never mind, I forgot...
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Re: Kill a biker, go to jail!
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,018
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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I wonder how many of you would want to see your, (wife,daughter,son,etc) hung, or sent to prison for life if they happened to be the ones who didnt see the motorbike. Accidents do happen. Me personally I think banning cell phone use from moving vehicles would do more to make us all safer on the highways.
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Re: Kill a biker, go to jail!
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
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Well, in about a week from now(July 1st, to be exact) "The Peoples Republik of Kalifornia"(as some call it around here) will make driving and using any hand-held cell phone a moving violation!!!
But then again, THAT'S "Kalifornia" for ya, ya know?!
(I mean, I wouldn't expect most of the other states to deprive their citizenry of their "god-given right to choose to multi-task" while driving", ya know!)
Add BTW...DARN GOOD POINT about "putting the shoe on the other foot" there. I agree!!! I ALSO wonder how some of the "throw the book at 'em" crowd around here would feel if it was their WIFE or their KID driving the cage and who "didn't see the motorcyclist"???
(I expect after that question, it'll get mighty friggin' quiet 'round here, HUH?!)
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: Kill a biker, go to jail!
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,555
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,555 |
Quote:
Well, in about a week from now(July 1st, to be exact) "The Peoples Republik of Kalifornia"(as some call it around here) will make driving and using any hand-held cell phone a moving violation!!!
But then again, THAT'S "Kalifornia" for ya, ya know?!
(I mean, I wouldn't expect most of the other states to deprive their citizenry of their "god-given right to choose to multi-task" while driving", ya know!)
Add BTW...DARN GOOD POINT about "putting the shoe on the other foot" there. I agree!!! I ALSO wonder how some of the "throw the book at 'em" crowd around here would feel if it was their WIFE or their KID driving the cage and who "didn't see the motorcyclist"???
(I expect after that question, it'll get mighty friggin' quiet 'round here, HUH?!)
CT enacted a no cell phone while driving law 2 years ago.
(My you Califorians are like ...SO behind the times).
Its become another of those often ignored rarley enforced
traffic laws. Every once in a while the state will set
up an "observation post", To spot run down and ticket cell phone users.Usually the week before a major holiday.
Then it gets forgotten. No law is anygood if not enforced.
SO if any CT state troopers see this...GET OF YOUR DEAD AZZ AND WRITE SOME TICKETS.
As for the "hang em highs"...well it's natural for parents or spouses to run to the aid of a child or wife.
But in the US we seems to train our kids form youth to avoid
takeing responcability for their actions(please note the Hogan family) thus we have "The Lawyer State".Goes back to the old "It's societies fault that my kid held up that liquor store".Oh and lets not forget the old 80's catch phrase "Gotta look out for number one" we seem to live by that now.
As for "I did not see him"..I think in a lot of cases truth would be more like.."I thought I could beat him",,," I figured he'd stop"..."I dont care if he had the right of way..me first"
Last edited by oneijack; 06/23/2008 10:03 AM.
The percentage you're paying is too high-priced
While you're living beyond all your means
And the man in the suit has just bought a new car
From the profit he's made on your dreams
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Re: Kill a biker, go to jail!
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Yea, but the penalty for doing so is $20...a little less than spitting on the sidewalk...were if you have a measly .08% alcohol in your blood it cost about $5,000
Hate workin' for the man...
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Re: Kill a biker, go to jail!
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,555 |
Quote:
Yea, but the penalty for doing so is $20...a little less than spitting on the sidewalk...were if you have a measly .08% alcohol in your blood it cost about $5,000
Humm dose seem a little,light I think a lifetime suspention should go along with that 5000 .08.
The percentage you're paying is too high-priced
While you're living beyond all your means
And the man in the suit has just bought a new car
From the profit he's made on your dreams
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Re: Kill a biker, go to jail!
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,630 Likes: 7
Monkey Butt
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OP
Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,630 Likes: 7 |
Quote:
I wonder how many of you would want to see your, (wife,daughter,son,etc) hung, or sent to prison for life if they happened to be the ones who didnt see the motorbike. Accidents do happen. Me personally I think banning cell phone use from moving vehicles would do more to make us all safer on the highways.
If your wife or kid is acting in a reckless manner in careless disregard of the lives of others should they get off with a slap on the wrist? If someone is seriously injured or killed because your wife or kid either couldn't be bothered to look or looked and ran over someone anyhow, should they get off lightly?
Just a few days ago I had some idiot on a cell phone change lanes into me because she couldn't be bothered to look. Blasting her with the Stebel horn and the sound of the TOR pipes were not enough to get her attention off her phone, and she had her window open! Luckily I had room to maneuver and when she finally noticed me she gave ME the stink eye! I'm sure she is someone's wife and child, but so what? She acted in wanton disregard for my safety and I’m sure I’m not the first.
If a person is injured or dies through the wanton indifference or carelessness of another in a situation not involving a motor vehicle there are usually serious consequences. Why shouldn’t killing or injuring someone with a car be treated the same way?
We all like to think of ourselves as rugged individualists. But when push comes to shove most of us are sheep who do what we are told. Worst of all, a lot of us become unpaid agents of whoever is controlling the agenda by enforcing the current dogma on the few rugged individualists who actually exist.
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Re: Kill a biker, go to jail!
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Posts: 18,825
"Lighten up, Francis."
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"Lighten up, Francis."
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825 |
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"The Peoples Republik of Kalifornia"(as some call it around here)
I think I struck a nerve.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you can still use hands-free setups in California, no?
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Re: Kill a biker, go to jail!
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
Quote:
Quote:
"The Peoples Republik of Kalifornia"(as some call it around here)
I think I struck a nerve.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you can still use hands-free setups in California, no?
Da, "Comrade Friarsky"! Et vill still not be forbidden to use hands-free setups in "Kalifornia" after the first of July.
(now if you vill excuse me, Natasha and I are on trail of Moose and Squirrel, and if we lose them, Fearless Leader vill send us to GULAG in MALIBU...and so...dasvidanya for now, Comrade Friarsky!!!...actually come to think of it, I hope I DO lose Moose and Squirrel...Malibu sounds much better to me than either East Helena OR Tucson ever would, buddy...err...I mean comrade!!!)
Last edited by Dwight; 06/23/2008 5:40 PM.
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: Kill a biker, go to jail!
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825
"Lighten up, Francis."
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"Lighten up, Francis."
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825 |
That's weird. They've been talking about this on the Adam Carolla show and giving away some kind of hands free system as a result. What did I miss?
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Re: Kill a biker, go to jail!
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,877
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,877 |
Quote:
If your wife or kid is acting in a reckless manner in careless disregard of the lives of others should they get off with a slap on the wrist? If someone is seriously injured or killed because your wife or kid either couldn't be bothered to look or looked and ran over someone anyhow, should they get off lightly?
I agree, but how do you differentiate blatant carelessness from an honest mistake? Like he said, accidents do happen... It's an existential argument really... Judging someone on their actions VS their intentions.
Benny
Black & Silver '02
Too many mods to list
Not enough miles ridden
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Re: Kill a biker, go to jail!
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Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
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Good points Larry.
I think the "wanton disregard" is the key phrase there.
And very hard to prove.
But if it is proven, the penalties should be appropriate.
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Kill a biker, go to jail!
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Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821 |
Quote:
Quote:
Well, in about a week from now(July 1st, to be exact) "The Peoples Republik of Kalifornia"(as some call it around here) will make driving and using any hand-held cell phone a moving violation!!!
But then again, THAT'S "Kalifornia" for ya, ya know?!
(I mean, I wouldn't expect most of the other states to deprive their citizenry of their "god-given right to choose to multi-task" while driving", ya know!)
Add BTW...DARN GOOD POINT about "putting the shoe on the other foot" there. I agree!!! I ALSO wonder how some of the "throw the book at 'em" crowd around here would feel if it was their WIFE or their KID driving the cage and who "didn't see the motorcyclist"???
(I expect after that question, it'll get mighty friggin' quiet 'round here, HUH?!)
CT enacted a no cell phone while driving law 2 years ago.
(My you Califorians are like ...SO behind the times).
 Maybe we should start spelling it "Konnektikut".
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Kill a biker, go to jail!
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,630 Likes: 7
Monkey Butt
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OP
Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,630 Likes: 7 |
As I get older I believe less in accidents. Most crashes and misadventures are caused by thoughtlessness, carelessness, laziness and stupidity. If I go out back and fire several rounds of 30.06 into the air on the 4th of July, and one of them lands on someone and kills them, is that an accident or the result my actions?
Similarly, if I fail to look at, or see, another vehicle that is clearly visible and has the right of way and I run into it and kill the operator is it truly an accident?
If I keep a dangerous animal and fail to keep it contained and it kills someone who is at fault? Can I claim it was an accident?
In each of these cases a dangerous situation was created and proper judgment was not exercised. No harm was intended but due to a failure of judgment someone died. Why should any of these situations be treated differently than any other?
Certainly justice must be tempered with mercy when called for. But first and foremost, there must be justice.
We all like to think of ourselves as rugged individualists. But when push comes to shove most of us are sheep who do what we are told. Worst of all, a lot of us become unpaid agents of whoever is controlling the agenda by enforcing the current dogma on the few rugged individualists who actually exist.
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Re: Kill a biker, go to jail!
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
Well, in THAT case Larry, why don't we just go all the way back to the "root of the problem" here then?! I mean, you sound like the kind of "law and order candidate" I've been waitin' my whole life to vote for!!!
That's RIGHT! What say we just start throwin' in jail ALL the stupid friggin' PARENTS who made those "failures in judgement" years ago in the first place! I'm talkin' about those "failures in judgement" that they'd have the ability TO BE "good parents" and as Messrs Croby, Stills and Nash might'a asked 'em to in song..."teach your[their] children WELL"???
Yep! ya think "maybe" these BASIC "failures in judgement" just happen? OR, do ya think "maybe" there "just might be" some root parental causation for all the friggin' dunderheads out there today, HUH?!
Tell ya what dude, start pushing a Bill through your State Assembly that put's EVERYBODY on NORPLANT[or some other convenient form of birth control] until EVERYBODY'S at least 30 friggin' years old and when they're just STARTIN' to see how the world really works and have experience enough to impart this knowlegde upon their progeny and before they start poppin' their next generation of little dunderheaded rugrats out, and trust me dude, I'll FLY to IOWA and help you LOBBY FOR THAT!!!!
(until THEN...I gotta say that there ARE "things" known as "accidents" in this friggin' world, and that IT'S STILL UP TO US AS MOTORCYCLISTS AND AS THE MOST VULNERABLE OUT THERE ON THE ROAD TO WATCH OUT FOR ALL THOSE DUNDERHEADS IN CAGES WHO ARE NOT NOTICING US OUT THERE...and in good ol' "republican fashion" say to everybody, STOP PLAYING THE VICTIM and START TAKING RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR DECISION TO RIDE A VEHICLE THAT AFFORDS NO PROTECTION WHATSOEVER TO YOU, AND ALWAYS BE PREPARED FOR ANY NEGATIVE EFFECTS...AND...POSSIBLY LESSEN THESE POTENTIAL "NEGATIVE EFFECTS" BY EVEN WEARING A FREAKIN' HELMET!!!)
Last edited by Dwight; 06/26/2008 1:25 PM.
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: Kill a biker, go to jail!
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825
"Lighten up, Francis."
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"Lighten up, Francis."
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825 |
Quote:
As I get older I believe less in accidents.
I've been thinking about this and I tend to agree. All "accidents" are the result of negligence. Negligence is the true enemy. When it comes to riding a motorcycle (or anything, really) all you can do is try to eliminate opportunities for your own negligence and try to anticipate the negligence of others. The truly diligent may be able to eliminate about 95% of the former, and maybe 50-75% of the latter. That leaves a lot of room for "accidents." Of course, those occurances run along a continuum between a stubbed toe and death.
But really all of this is arguing semantics. S happens and it can be anybody's fault.
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Re: Kill a biker, go to jail!
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,172
Saddle Sore
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Saddle Sore
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,172 |
As long as there is motion, there will be accidents. There must be justice, but the justice must fit the circumstances of the crime. The culprit and the victim must be dealt with in a consistent manner based on the situation, regardless of race, religion, social status, money, political leanings, or anything else...
If you can accomplish that, I may move to Iowa too!
Best of luck on your campaign. Hope you win and get the chance to effect some change.
More flags
More fun!
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Re: Kill a biker, go to jail!
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 277
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 277 |
Let me first tell you of my situation yesterday. I was heading home from work ( what is that bright Yellow thing in the sky, it sure isnt the moon im used to with working nights normally ). There was a big wind storm that knocked out power to about a mile and a half worth of stoplights.
Well, im riding home and get to the first out light and have to wait in line as everyone in line takes turn going. After about 5 minutes I get my turn. I am in the far right lane to go straight and there are 4 lanes of cars going straight and 1 turning right. Well this ***k Weed in the right turn lane that was lets just say under 20 decided he was going to go straight with me and speed up on the shoulder and almost sideswiped me into the car on my left. Then as I speed up so that he could get behind me, we get to the next light. then for the next 3 lights he is about 6 inches from my bikes back tire even while we are doing 35 between lights. Well, he decides to pass me again on the right should at his earliest convenience. almost taggin the right side of my bike.
Now dont get me wrong, I know there are such things as accidents. But there is also such things as assult with a deadly weapon which I consider this little pricks actions. He is just lucky that I wasnt packing, cuz I would have been tempted to pull it out and defend myself. Not one to condone road rage, but I would have considered that self defense.
Mark
Oh and the worst part, like normal New Mexico style, no license plate on the car. Just a faded old unreadable temp tag in the back window.
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Re: Kill a biker, go to jail!
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
Quote:
Now dont get me wrong, I know there are such things as accidents. But there is also such things as assult with a deadly weapon which I consider this little pricks actions. He is just lucky that I wasnt packing, cuz I would have been tempted to pull it out and defend myself. Not one to condone road rage, but I would have considered that self defense.
Mark
Well GEEEEE, Mark! Looks like you're IN LUCK, now that we know what the 2nd Amendment really means, HUH?!
And sooooooo, if this EVER happens AGAIN, you'll now have TWO CHOICES at your disposal, dude!!!
You will now either have the option of SHOOTING the little F***Weed...OR...MAYBE...allowing the little F***Weed an little extra room to manuever AHEAD of you, and let him go on his merry little way AHEAD of you and not let it evolve into some kind of p*ssing contest! That is once you hopefully realized as soon as you could that the little F***Weed was going to pull that boneheaded maneuver around you, which luckily you appeared to have discovered early enough in this situation.
(BTW...I suggest that you take the SECOND COURSE of action above, EVEN AFTER this recent court ruling, as you could find that the attorney/court costs involved in taking the first course above might be a little draining to your personal finances!...though, you probably would be doing society a major favor if you WOULD take that first course of action mentioned above, alright!!!)
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: Kill a biker, go to jail!
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825
"Lighten up, Francis."
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"Lighten up, Francis."
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825 |
(bluster-bluster-bluster)
What were we talking about?
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Re: Kill a biker, go to jail!
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
Quote:
(bluster-bluster-bluster)
What were we talking about?
Well John, we WERE talkin' about "Kill a biker, go to jail" here, but evidently it's segued into "Kill a F***Weed, go to jail!", huh?! 
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: Kill a biker, go to jail!
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 277
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 277 |
I would have let the kid pass me at his earliest convenience, its just that by the time he about sideswiped me the first time, his front bumber was about even with my right leg, so i just sped up as much as i could. then I had no way to let him around until he decided to finally take the shoulder. Thanks for making me laugh!!! Mark
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Re: Kill a biker, go to jail!
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 277
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 277 |
The reason that I put this here is that I understand that accidents do happen, however when there is a blatant disregard for another person ( as in the way the ***k Weed ) was acting towards me, if anything had happened to me, I would hope that he would have been prosecuted to the full extent of the law ( however this will only happen if there are witnesses. ) If he had say sideswiped me the second time and thrown me into another car and I had been killed. How do u think he should be punished. I say put the little ****** in jail and throw away the key myself.
Mark
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