 Physics question for non-Brits
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So. I'm on the road this week on business, and I stop and get myself a six pack of bottled local brewskies to enjoy in the comfort of my magnificently appointed Hampton Inn hotel room. I get back to the hotel, place the bottles in the fridge, and I go out for a bite to eat. Upon returning to my room, I open one of the tasty brews and pour it into my imported plastic hotel room cups. The tasty suds flow into the cup as a cold refreshing liquid, but within seconds congeal into the consistency of a 7-11 Slurpee with icy foam. Now, this is deliscious in it's own right, but it got me wondering why the brew stayed completely liquid while in an unopened bottle, but changed to a semi-frozen state once dispensed. Does anyone know the reason behind this? (I don't mean to sound rude in excluding our Brit brothers and sisters, but it seems like it would be hard for them to conceptualize 'cold' and 'beer' together as all the fridges in the UK are aledgedley made by Lucas...  ) 
JB
"Long live the Duck Force!"
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Re: Physics question for non-Brits
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Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
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Wasn't it under pressure in the bottle? I think that keeps it liquified at a lower temp (man, physics class was a long time ago).
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
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Re: Physics question for non-Brits
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3/4 Throttle
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3/4 Throttle
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Not hot on physics, but maybe the beer was near to solidifying before you poured, but just not quite, due to the alcohol not letting it freeze. So it only appeared to look liquid in your eagerness to get the cap off. For a moment there I was thinking you were going to tar us Brits with an age old myth that we like warm beer  Which does actually have a certain amount of truth in it, as quite a few 'ales' are served at room temperature to allow the flavours to come out. But room temperature is a Victorian measurement (i think) whereby all houses were generally colder anyway. Who's this Lucas chap... my fridge was made in Italy :P Hope you quenched your thirst at any rate
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Re: Physics question for non-Brits
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Saddle Sore
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Saddle Sore
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Well , here we go , if yer brew was close to freezing temp , 32 F , when the CO 2 is liberated as it effervesces , it will lower the temp slightly . This would account for the slushy effect . Been a long time since Chem 101 , 102 , 251 , 252 , but I think that's an endothermic reaction . Summary - yer beers' too cold , microwave it . You wanna know how a microwave works ? Later .
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Re: Physics question for non-Brits
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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Two things happening. Under pressure the liquid is holding more CO2. When you pop the bottle you release the pressure, this is why you see the bubbles appear when you open the bottle. This is removing carbon from the system along with some of the liquefied carbolic acid, raising the temp at which beer freezes. Simultaneously, the pressure release is actually an expansion of the localized gases, removing heat from the system in this process having a cooling effect. So actually you have a chemical and a thermodynamic process occurring. But man, you had to be pretty ****** close to the freezing temp to begin with. Way too cold for a nice ale. The only way Americans drink American beer is 'cuz they drink so cold it freezes the taste buds, Only way to get some of the swill down. You know why American beer is like making love in a canoe, right? F%#@ing close to water!
Ride On!
Airguy
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You gotta' be smart to be lazy(and get a job done)
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Re: Physics question for non-Brits
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Saddle Sore
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Saddle Sore
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DOGGONE , Keith , had I known you were so analytical I woulda rode the Wolfpen with ya back at the rally . Next year , let's get together and talk about Avogadro and molar volume . 
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Re: Physics question for non-Brits
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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That beer was at the perfect temp as gar as I'm concerned.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Physics question for non-Brits
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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Quote:
Two things happening. Under pressure the liquid is holding more CO2. When you pop the bottle you release the pressure, this is why you see the bubbles appear when you open the bottle. This is removing carbon from the system along with some of the liquefied carbolic acid, raising the temp at which beer freezes. Simultaneously, the pressure release is actually an expansion of the localized gases, removing heat from the system in this process having a cooling effect. So actually you have a chemical and a thermodynamic process occurring. But man, you had to be pretty ****** close to the freezing temp to begin with. Way too cold for a nice ale.
Sounds about right, Keith.
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The only way Americans drink American beer is 'cuz they drink so cold it freezes the taste buds, Only way to get some of the swill down. You know why American beer is like making love in a canoe, right? F%#@ing close to water!
But of course you're talking of the mass marketed American beers here, right Keith?! Because, as I'm sure you know, there are many many really good quality American beers out there which are brewed in much smaller quantities than the Buds, the Coors, and the Millers, and which are available if one would just take the time to find them and wouldn't mind paying about the same as the higher priced imported beers, ya know.
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: Physics question for non-Brits
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
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Quote:
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Who's this Lucas chap... my fridge was made in Italy :P
Lucas was the chap who made the wiring on all the earlier Triumphs....
Ray(UK)
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Re: Physics question for non-Brits
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
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My pheory is, the cold beer hit the cup which was lucas warm and then frothed up...
Ray(UK)
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Re: Physics question for non-Brits
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Oil Expert
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OP
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Quote:
The only way Americans drink American beer is 'cuz they drink so cold it freezes the taste buds, Only way to get some of the swill down. You know why American beer is like making love in a canoe, right? F%#@ing close to water!
First of all, thanks for the explanations.
As far as the American 'swill' goes, the refreshing brew I was enjoying was Yuengling Traditional Lager. Yuengling is a Pennsylvania beer and is America's oldest brewery. It's not a micro-brew, but it is regional, and I enjoy it every time I get up this way.
Budweiser, Coors, Miller, Pabst, et al are all in a different class of mega brews.
JB
"Long live the Duck Force!"
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Re: Physics question for non-Brits
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3/4 Throttle
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3/4 Throttle
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What was Lucas' dying words?  Don't drive at night. 
I would be unstoppable if not for law enforcement and physics.
2002, Cardinal Red & Silver
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Re: Physics question for non-Brits
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Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
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I've had the same thing happen with Gatorade, I put it in the freezer to get cold, when I open it, I can see ice form instantly in the bottle, and I get a slushie drink. Now how can you explain it with a non alcoholic, non carbonated beverage?
Always remember to be yourself. Unless you suck. Then pretend to be someone else.
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Re: Physics question for non-Brits
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Saddle Sore
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Saddle Sore
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Quote:
I've had the same thing happen with Gatorade, I put it in the freezer to get cold, when I open it, I can see ice form instantly in the bottle, and I get a slushie drink. Now how can you explain it with a non alcoholic, non carbonated beverage?
It is the Spirit of the Gator , it leaves a chilly wake as it rises forth to endow you with primal energy . 
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Re: Physics question for non-Brits
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Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
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Oh, now I get it!
Always remember to be yourself. Unless you suck. Then pretend to be someone else.
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Re: Physics question for non-Brits
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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Of course I am familiar with the microbrewery industry. And I thank god for it regularly. Yes, I was referring to the mass marketed swill the mega-conglomerates push and that a huge percentage of Americans consider beer. Whether you know or not, our friend Pat (aka Dinqua), is not the single representative on this site of homebrewers. I started doing that as I left grad school in answer to the comparatively lacking "real" beer market at the time.
It has been my opinion that the microbrewery industry has done wonders to bring back the great heritage of the American brewing craft. However, I do find it typical that most of the standard offerings done by these smaller endeavours follow the beer style guidelines but the flavoring is usually, let us say, is mellowed a bit. I go in to these places and almost as a rule try to find out what the seasonal or the brewmaster's specials are. Now that is usually some tasty shite.
I was just in Vancouver and found a great local microbrewery called The Steamworks. Pretty much all this guy's beers were good but, man, was his stout divine. Needless to say, I spent both time and $$$ in this place while I was visiting.
Prost!
Ride On!
Airguy
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You gotta' be smart to be lazy(and get a job done)
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Re: Physics question for non-Brits
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Your beer freeezes when poured? hmm sounds to me like you have been cursed, contact your local shamman he can remove the bad Ju-Ju.
The percentage you're paying is too high-priced
While you're living beyond all your means
And the man in the suit has just bought a new car
From the profit he's made on your dreams
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Re: Physics question for non-Brits
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Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
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Quote:
I've had the same thing happen with Gatorade, I put it in the freezer to get cold, when I open it, I can see ice form instantly in the bottle, and I get a slushie drink. Now how can you explain it with a non alcoholic, non carbonated beverage?
You beat me to it. I have the exact same thing happen.
Near as I can figure, the liquid gets to just past freezing temperature, and water unlike many materials expands as it freezes. This expansion compresses the air in the bottle, slowing the rate of expansion and thus the rate of freezing.
When the bottles is opened, the liquid is allowed to expand and become (semi) solid.
If it is left in the freezer long enough, of course, it will freeze solid in the bottle.
When my son (Chem major) wakes up, I'll ask him.
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Physics question for non-Brits
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Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
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OK. Son woke up (finally). It has to do with "super chilling" and pressure differentials. That is, the temperature of the liquid is below freezing, but it is static so hasn't frozen yet. opening it changes the pressure and/or surface tension so it freezes. At just the right temperature, you could make it solid just by shaking it. Kind of like the opposite effect of super heating your coffee in the microwave and it explodes when you put a spoon in it, disrupting the surface tension. Phase diagram for water: 
Last edited by bigbill; 05/23/2008 11:37 AM.
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Physics question for non-Brits
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Adjunct
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Adjunct
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Quote:
So. I'm on the road this week on business, and I stop and get myself a six pack of bottled local brewskies to enjoy in the comfort of my magnificently appointed Hampton Inn hotel room. I get back to the hotel, place the bottles in the fridge, and I go out for a bite to eat. Upon returning to my room, I open one of the tasty brews and pour it into my imported plastic hotel room cups. The tasty suds flow into the cup as a cold refreshing liquid, but within seconds congeal into the consistency of a 7-11 Slurpee with icy foam. Now, this is deliscious in it's own right, but it got me wondering why the brew stayed completely liquid while in an unopened bottle, but changed to a semi-frozen state once dispensed. Does anyone know the reason behind this?
(I don't mean to sound rude in excluding our Brit brothers and sisters, but it seems like it would be hard for them to conceptualize 'cold' and 'beer' together as all the fridges in the UK are aledgedley made by Lucas... )
As difficult as it is for my American cousins to conceptualize 'beer' and 'Alcohol content' together Give me my room temperature 6% real ale any day. 
The path of excess leads to the Palace of Wisdom
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Re: Physics question for non-Brits
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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6% Pony, is that what they call beer in the UK now? Wow, things really have gone downhill there. Why the beer I pick up here (Double Bag from Long Trail in Vermont) is 7.3% I believe. Do you put a slice of lemon in your beer like the French? 
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Re: Physics question for non-Brits
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Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
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Sierra Nevada Bigfoot is 9.6%. They are getting kinda lightweight over there, ain't they?
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Physics question for non-Brits
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Adjunct
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Adjunct
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Could drink Harvest Ale @ 11.5% from J. W. Lees, England. But I like to pace myself
The path of excess leads to the Palace of Wisdom
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 Re: Physics question for non-Brits
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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I drink beer for the good taste, not the high alcohol content (I'm a Newkie Brown devotee, BTW). If high alcohol content is your reason-to-be, Try Everclear- 190 proof. Just be careful of open flames.
Steelheart- '03 Speedmaster Black/Yellow
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Re: Physics question for non-Brits
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Alcohol content doesn't make a good tasting beer. As for temperature, that depends on the beer. I like my lagers to be cooler than ales and my porters and stouts warmer than my ales.
John
Like a dog on a car ride with my tongue in the wind
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Re: Physics question for non-Brits
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Adjunct
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Adjunct
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It's 22 years since I was that side of the pond and it sure looks like things are lookin up for you guys in the real ale stakes. When I was over there as a young sailor, all we could get was Bud, Becks and all that rubbish. Glad you've finally got it sorted as Last time I had to go to Canada for a decent brew! 
The path of excess leads to the Palace of Wisdom
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Re: Physics question for non-Brits
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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Quote:
I drink beer for the good taste, not the high alcohol content (I'm a Newkie Brown devotee, BTW).
If high alcohol content is your reason-to-be, Try Everclear- 190 proof.
Just be careful of open flames.
I used to drink that when I was a drinker. Also Carlesburg Elephant Malt Liquor, that was potent stuff back then don't know about now since I quit drinking 22 years ago.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Physics question for non-Brits
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3/4 Throttle
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3/4 Throttle
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If you do it today you MIGHT regret it. If you CAN'T do it tomorrow you WILL regret it.
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Re: Physics question for non-Brits
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Quote:
6% Pony, is that what they call beer in the UK now? Wow, things really have gone downhill there. Why the beer I pick up here (Double Bag from Long Trail in Vermont) is 7.3% I believe. Do you put a slice of lemon in your beer like the French?
Speaking of this practise...
I remember that alot of the past generation of "old timers"
my Dad for one. Used to put salt in his beer. Some even would crack a raw egg in it. Anyone out there still do this?
The percentage you're paying is too high-priced
While you're living beyond all your means
And the man in the suit has just bought a new car
From the profit he's made on your dreams
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Re: Physics question for non-Brits
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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I know some guys that still do that but more that drink it with tomato juice mixed in.
John
Like a dog on a car ride with my tongue in the wind
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Re: Physics question for non-Brits
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Joined: Sep 2007
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3/4 Throttle
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3/4 Throttle
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Quote:
OK. Son woke up (finally).
It has to do with "super chilling" and pressure differentials.
That is, the temperature of the liquid is below freezing, but it is static so hasn't frozen yet. opening it changes the pressure and/or surface tension so it freezes. At just the right temperature, you could make it solid just by shaking it.
Kind of like the opposite effect of super heating your coffee in the microwave and it explodes when you put a spoon in it, disrupting the surface tension.
Phase diagram for water:
Are those double lines at about 200c to do with the surface tension/explosion thing?
Nice tasting ale at low strengths = longer drinking time & no fall on face flatty
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Re: Physics question for non-Brits
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Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
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Quote:
Are those double lines at about 200c to do with the surface tension/explosion thing?
Nah, they show a shortening of the scale to fit the picture. I'm sure there's a tech term for it. Maybe one of the engineers here will provide
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Nice tasting ale at low strengths = longer drinking time & no fall on face flatty
Nice tasting being the key. And they are out there.
Sierra Nevada Pale Ale is 5.6% I think, and quite tasty 
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Physics question for non-Brits
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Oil Expert
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Oil Expert
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Quote:
I know some guys that still do that but more that drink it with tomato juice mixed in.
Good old Molson Canadian and Clamato mmmmmmmmm
never had a hangover drinking that combo.
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Re: Physics question for non-Brits
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Quote:
Quote:
I know some guys that still do that but more that drink it with tomato juice mixed in.
Good old Molson Canadian and Clamato mmmmmmmmm
never had a hangover drinking that combo.
yeah cuz i dont think I could drink more than one 
The percentage you're paying is too high-priced
While you're living beyond all your means
And the man in the suit has just bought a new car
From the profit he's made on your dreams
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