 ranting and raving WAY OT
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,639 Likes: 3
Old Hand
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OP
Old Hand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,639 Likes: 3 |
I came close to decking some smart mouthed kid the other day. He was spouting about how wonderfully "green"
the younger generation is and how horribly wasteful the "old folks" were. He was going on about recycling,
"alternate energy", economy cars, etc.
Well, here is the truth about the horrible wasteful old timers and wonderful greenees. Let's go back to,
say, 1940 and take a look at all the waste as compared to today.
1. Containers. Milk and beverages came in reusable heavy duty glass containers. Kids would go buy a soda
and pay an extra 2 cents deposit for the bottle. When they finished their drink, they would return the
bottle to any store that carried that brand and get their 2 cents back. The bottlers would then buy the
bottle back from the store. These bottles were then cleaned, sterylised and refilled. Since new bottles
went through the same process, there was no extra polution generated and no extra energy used in the
process. Of course, beer bottles went through the same cycle as did milk bottles. Milk was handled a little
differently though. It was delivered early in the morning, often by horse drawn wagon (zero oil use and
only natural bio-degradable byproducts produced) or, in the bigger cities by a relatively economical small truck,
usually one made by DIVCO. These trucks were powered by a small 4 cylinder engine and got maybe 12 to 14 MPG.
Now, even with todays miniature economy cars, one truck chugging around the neighborhood getting 12 MPG
means a lot less fuel burned than hundreds of people driving to the market to get milk. Canned goods were
packed in substantial steel tins. In the 30's, people would canvass neighborhoods collecting old rags, tin
cans and junk to be recycled. In a certain medium size town in PA, one such person made enough that he drove a
Deusenberg. When it became obvious that we would soon be involved in the war in Europe, and especially after
it was obvious that we WERE involved in said war, people would save their tins. Both ends were cut partly
out, enough that they could be folded in and the cans were flattened and sent off to be made into tanks
and such. Even the jelly and jam jars were not just chucked into the rubbish. They were printed with nice
designs suitable for use as drinking glasses after the labels were peeled off. It was unthinkable to throw
out other glass containers with screw-on lids as well. Those were taken to the garage and basement to be
filled with nails and bolts and such. Overall, there was ****** little non-biodegradable stuff sent off to
the dump.
Now, everything comes in disposable plastic, paper thin aluminum or, occasionally, glass, paper or thin
steel containers. These containers are tossed into a special rubbish bin. They are hauled off, sorted
using energy consuming machinery. The plastics are chopped up into small bits by an electric chopper,
then sent off to be dissolved in oil based solvents and eventually molded into new containers to be refilled
and the cycle starts again. Glass is broken up, melted down and made into new jars, etc. All this use of
energy and petroleum products is supposed to be somehow better than just cleaning out reusable containers
and reusing them.
2. Vehicles. Time was that most people were able to repair their own vehicles. When they finally reached a
point that the owner decided it wasn't worth repairing the old bus, he sold it to a junkyard and got another.
That wasn't the end of it though. The old vehicle was stripped of usable parts to keep others like it running
and many of the worn bits were reconditioned. You didn't see trainloads of flattened out late models going
to be melted down like you do today. You did see a lot of older models aging gracefully and still running
like a top. I have been informed by a large number of sources that the amount of energy consumed and pollution
generated in manufacturing new vehicles far exceeds what would be generated by keeping the older ones running.
3. "Green energy". In 1940, a good part of America was still farmland, and a good number of these farms were
not connected to "city" electricity or water. Wind driven generators and well pumps were a common sight. I
don't have any actual numbers before me at the moment, but I believe it would be safe to say that, prior to
WWII, more "green" power was generated than in these wonderful "enlightened" times.
4. Going to school. There were no "socker moms" in minivans. Kids either walked to school (minimum pollution
and zero petroleum use) or rode a bus. now, the old school buses made by Fagoel, Flexibl and Reo got maybe
8 - 9 MPG. Even at the 23 MPG the EPA says you might be able to get from a minivan, if a school bus keeps
even 3 socker moms off the road at schooltime, that is a net saving in fuel. Have you ever seen how people drive
when dropping or picking up their kids at school? Their chances of survival would go up by an order of magnitude
if the brats walked or took the bus!
5. Money. Yes, they even recycled money back then. They did it by buying products made in America by Americans
working for American owned companies. Now is the time for some idiot to pop up and shout, "But, my new
Toyota was made in America!" Maybe so, but where did your money go? It sure didn't stay here, and you'll never
see it again. Back then, when you bought something, it was made, delivered and sold by you, your family,
neighbor or even your lazy brother-in-law. People had real jobs that they were proud of. These jobs kept them
busy enough and gave them enough self esteem that they (for the most part) didn't feel any need to fool around.
Single parenthood was a rarity usually resulting from widowhood rather than wandering off looking to feel good
about ones self. And, the few single parents went to work and tried to teach proper values to their kids instead
of being too busy boozing and drugging to be bothered.
OK, I don't want to hear any more about the wonderful greenees or the terrible brownees! And, I still haven't
seen any really convincing evidence that "global warming" is not part of the natural solar cycle compounded
by an EPA summer.
Let's hope there's intelligent life somewhere in space 'cause it's buggar all down here. -- Monte Python
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Re: ranting and raving WAY OT
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,219 Likes: 61
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,219 Likes: 61 |
Quote:
I came close to decking some smart mouthed kid the other day. He was spouting about how wonderfully "green"
the younger generation is and how horribly wasteful the "old folks" were. He was going on about recycling,
"alternate energy", economy cars, etc.
Well, here is the truth about the horrible wasteful old timers and wonderful greenees. Let's go back to,
say, 1940 and take a look at all the waste as compared to today.
1. Containers. Milk and beverages came in reusable heavy duty glass containers. Kids would go buy a soda
and pay an extra 2 cents deposit for the bottle. When they finished their drink, they would return the
bottle to any store that carried that brand and get their 2 cents back. The bottlers would then buy the
bottle back from the store. These bottles were then cleaned, sterylised and refilled. Since new bottles
went through the same process, there was no extra polution generated and no extra energy used in the
process. Of course, beer bottles went through the same cycle as did milk bottles. Milk was handled a little
differently though. It was delivered early in the morning, often by horse drawn wagon (zero oil use and
only natural bio-degradable byproducts produced) or, in the bigger cities by a relatively economical small truck,
usually one made by DIVCO. These trucks were powered by a small 4 cylinder engine and got maybe 12 to 14 MPG.
Now, even with todays miniature economy cars, one truck chugging around the neighborhood getting 12 MPG
means a lot less fuel burned than hundreds of people driving to the market to get milk. Canned goods were
packed in substantial steel tins. In the 30's, people would canvass neighborhoods collecting old rags, tin
cans and junk to be recycled. In a certain medium size town in PA, one such person made enough that he drove a
Deusenberg. When it became obvious that we would soon be involved in the war in Europe, and especially after
it was obvious that we WERE involved in said war, people would save their tins. Both ends were cut partly
out, enough that they could be folded in and the cans were flattened and sent off to be made into tanks
and such. Even the jelly and jam jars were not just chucked into the rubbish. They were printed with nice
designs suitable for use as drinking glasses after the labels were peeled off. It was unthinkable to throw
out other glass containers with screw-on lids as well. Those were taken to the garage and basement to be
filled with nails and bolts and such. Overall, there was ****** little non-biodegradable stuff sent off to
the dump.
Now, everything comes in disposable plastic, paper thin aluminum or, occasionally, glass, paper or thin
steel containers. These containers are tossed into a special rubbish bin. They are hauled off, sorted
using energy consuming machinery. The plastics are chopped up into small bits by an electric chopper,
then sent off to be dissolved in oil based solvents and eventually molded into new containers to be refilled
and the cycle starts again. Glass is broken up, melted down and made into new jars, etc. All this use of
energy and petroleum products is supposed to be somehow better than just cleaning out reusable containers
and reusing them.
2. Vehicles. Time was that most people were able to repair their own vehicles. When they finally reached a
point that the owner decided it wasn't worth repairing the old bus, he sold it to a junkyard and got another.
That wasn't the end of it though. The old vehicle was stripped of usable parts to keep others like it running
and many of the worn bits were reconditioned. You didn't see trainloads of flattened out late models going
to be melted down like you do today. You did see a lot of older models aging gracefully and still running
like a top. I have been informed by a large number of sources that the amount of energy consumed and pollution
generated in manufacturing new vehicles far exceeds what would be generated by keeping the older ones running.
3. "Green energy". In 1940, a good part of America was still farmland, and a good number of these farms were
not connected to "city" electricity or water. Wind driven generators and well pumps were a common sight. I
don't have any actual numbers before me at the moment, but I believe it would be safe to say that, prior to
WWII, more "green" power was generated than in these wonderful "enlightened" times.
4. Going to school. There were no "socker moms" in minivans. Kids either walked to school (minimum pollution
and zero petroleum use) or rode a bus. now, the old school buses made by Fagoel, Flexibl and Reo got maybe
8 - 9 MPG. Even at the 23 MPG the EPA says you might be able to get from a minivan, if a school bus keeps
even 3 socker moms off the road at schooltime, that is a net saving in fuel. Have you ever seen how people drive
when dropping or picking up their kids at school? Their chances of survival would go up by an order of magnitude
if the brats walked or took the bus!
5. Money. Yes, they even recycled money back then. They did it by buying products made in America by Americans
working for American owned companies. Now is the time for some idiot to pop up and shout, "But, my new
Toyota was made in America!" Maybe so, but where did your money go? It sure didn't stay here, and you'll never
see it again. Back then, when you bought something, it was made, delivered and sold by you, your family,
neighbor or even your lazy brother-in-law. People had real jobs that they were proud of. These jobs kept them
busy enough and gave them enough self esteem that they (for the most part) didn't feel any need to fool around.
Single parenthood was a rarity usually resulting from widowhood rather than wandering off looking to feel good
about ones self. And, the few single parents went to work and tried to teach proper values to their kids instead
of being too busy boozing and drugging to be bothered.
OK, I don't want to hear any more about the wonderful greenees or the terrible brownees! And, I still haven't
seen any really convincing evidence that "global warming" is not part of the natural solar cycle compounded
by an EPA summer.
Don't have to go back to the 40s I remember as a kid in the 70s collecting bottles and taking them back for a nickle I also remember getting our milk delivered in reusable glass jugs.
I believe the world would be a much better place if parents were parents teaching good values today. I rarely see it most parents are a TV set or video game or the parent is as screwed up as the kid. I am currently stuck raising my grand kids and do my best to instill good values in them and try to set an example. (not always the best I admit but I do try) The mother is working most of the time, to her credit since she is doing her best to provide for her kids but it leaves Wendy and I to raise them. I think it would make the world a better place if we could have 1 working parnet and 1 stay at home like it used to be, too bad in most cases now a days that just isn't possible due to cost of living vs pay scale.
EDIT: Stuck isn't exactly what I mean about raising the grand kids, I enjoy having them around and don't mind caring for them.
Last edited by The_Dog33; 05/18/2008 2:50 PM.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: ranting and raving WAY OT
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,630 Likes: 7
Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,630 Likes: 7 |
Many of them are idiots. Indoctrinated by government agents (AKA Teachers), the media and pop culture to believe things that are simply untrue. They’ve uncritically soaked it in and are just regurgitating the pap they’ve been fed. Anything that’s touted as “Green†is automatically good no matter how stupid it is.
I recently went round and round with a local elected official over the mandatory recycling program here. We pay a large fee for the privilege of recycling trash that takes much more energy and costs considerably more than just getting new stuff. It’s highly inefficient and costly but it makes her feel better. If they just took the fees they charge to force us into this they could open up several new landfills and we wouldn’t have to do this crap. The idea doing a cost benefit analysis was like a heresy to her.
We all like to think of ourselves as rugged individualists. But when push comes to shove most of us are sheep who do what we are told. Worst of all, a lot of us become unpaid agents of whoever is controlling the agenda by enforcing the current dogma on the few rugged individualists who actually exist.
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Re: ranting and raving WAY OT
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 874
3/4 Throttle
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3/4 Throttle
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 874 |
Amen! How I miss the old days when pop was in bottles and things were simple and we didnt have these global warming idiots trying to tell us how to do things!
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Re: ranting and raving WAY OT
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 97
Member
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Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 97 |
In 1983, while accompanying my father's remains from the US to his homeland Hungary, I took a train from Luxembourg to Budapest. Since I had some time from when my plane landed to train boarding, I bought several beers in Luxembourg for the long ride. I immediately noticed that the bottles were reused, and they weren't even the same color, a couple were green, and a couple were brown- but they were exactly the same size and shape. Great beer, btw! Anyway, at the end of the train ride, I left all the empties in my cabin figuring a cleaner will dispose of them. Then, later on that day, as I ate dinner with my relatives, I noticed the different colors, green and brown, same shape, and I mentioned how they were the same type bottles as the ones I bought in Luxembourg. Of course, I was told. Most of the countries in Europe used the same, interchangeable bottles! How ingenious!
Another thing I noticed was, going into what was their "supermarket- first of all it was much smaller. Then, I realized why- they didn't have 20-something of everything like we have here in the US. Do we really need more than 3 or 4 types of laundry detergent? Why 6 brands of milk? Look at the bread aisle- why so many tens of different types? Isn't 3 or 4 choices enough? Ok, so this was 1983 in an "iron curtain" country. But, even today, the European countries are still much more conservative than we are. Ok, they now have 6 or 7 types of laundry detergent, which I think is more than enough. But, do we need 20-something types? Again, look around your favorite supermarket and look at all the excess.
Unfortunately, I don't know what the answer is other than, back to simplicity, like the original post so eloquently described...
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Re: ranting and raving WAY OT
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 529
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 529 |
Ed, you just made the top of my Christmas card list!
2005 America, green/gray, gutted stock pipes, tall sissy bar w/ luggage rack, Saddleman's dual touring seat and Tourmaster saddlebags (and sissybar bag).
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Re: ranting and raving WAY OT
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,639 Likes: 3
Old Hand
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OP
Old Hand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,639 Likes: 3 |
You know, the sad part is that the fine print on the containers tells you that you really do have only 5 or 6 choices. A lot of the 20 or 30 on the shelf are made by the same company from the same ingredients. The really sad part is that a lot of the ingredients are tainted junk from China.
Let's hope there's intelligent life somewhere in space 'cause it's buggar all down here. -- Monte Python
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Re: ranting and raving WAY OT
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,268 Likes: 16
Saddle Sore
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Saddle Sore
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,268 Likes: 16 |
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Re: ranting and raving WAY OT
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,164 Likes: 1
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,164 Likes: 1 |
Quote:
I came close to decking some smart mouthed kid the other day. He was spouting about how wonderfully "green"
the younger generation is and how horribly wasteful the "old folks" were. He was going on about recycling,
"alternate energy", economy cars, etc.
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Re: ranting and raving WAY OT
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,172
Saddle Sore
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Saddle Sore
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,172 |
Great post. If I don't add anything more, maybe it won't get locked.. 
More flags
More fun!
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Re: ranting and raving WAY OT
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 325
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 325 |
These are some of the same dorks that think this should be acceptable at fine establishments:  
Last edited by EDG1911; 05/18/2008 9:37 PM.
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Re: ranting and raving WAY OT
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,527
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,527 |
Nothing else to add without insulting the progressive crowd ...LOL
Noting else to add at all. Now that "thing" in the photo is the type of individual you see in a mall and you stare at him till he asks you what you are looking at and you then tell him you had sex with a peacock while drunk in your yute and wonder if he was the result.
"Proud to be an Infidel" ... "100% pure American Jingoist"
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Re: ranting and raving WAY OT
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,219 Likes: 61
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,219 Likes: 61 |
And here I thought it was either a target or poster child for abortion.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: ranting and raving WAY OT
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 325
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 325 |
Quote:
Nothing else to add without insulting the progressive crowd ...LOL
Noting else to add at all. Now that "thing" in the photo is the type of individual you see in a mall and you stare at him till he asks you what you are looking at and you then tell him you had sex with a peacock while drunk in your yute and wonder if he was the result.
yeah, I don't care what people do on their own time but don't try and force it on me.
If I went into a bar or tat.pierce shop and saw that I wouldn't care.
But don't complain when you don't get hired or get stared at because you look like you fell through the jewelry counter at JCPenney's.
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Re: ranting and raving WAY OT
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 820
3/4 Throttle
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3/4 Throttle
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 820 |
Apparently my food is now more ORGANIC than it has been in the past!! What a crock! I recycle almost everything. We have a point at the local supermarket that takes: green, clear & brown glass, plastic, cardboard and beer cans. Lol, I even use recycled bog roll! Even though it sounds environmentally friendly, it probably isn't compared to when we used to return glass bottles for a few pence etc. But on the other hand, there are less companies just dumping their waste into the sea, rivers and streams as there used to be. Fish now swim in the Mersey which is testament to that 
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Re: ranting and raving WAY OT
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 269
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Jan 2005
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I am forced to add some humor to this thread! Back in 1985 when a group of us "Nebraska bikers" attended the Knoxville Nationals in Knoxville, IA we of course had bought our beverage of choice to take with us. I must admit it was quite comical to watch all the Iowan kids crawl no less than 50 yards on their bellies under our trailer to grab our empty cans to trade in for money. You should have heard them when they got out with the cans only to find out they were from Nebraska and they couldn't sell them to the recyclers. I believe the words were "F******* Nebraska cans."
Trumpy
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Re: ranting and raving WAY OT
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,219 Likes: 61
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,219 Likes: 61 |
Why wouldn't you be able to sell to the recycler? Aren't they still aluminum?
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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 Re: ranting and raving WAY OT
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,626
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,626 |
They way I see it, eventually, we'll be strip-mining landfills for resources, so it'll all be recycled eventually.
Steelheart- '03 Speedmaster Black/Yellow
The Hayabusa Killa
16" Shorties/140 mains/Airbox drilled
Procom CDI
"There is no cure for Celibacy. But we can treat the symptoms."
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Re: ranting and raving WAY OT
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 948
3/4 Throttle
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3/4 Throttle
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 948 |
We used to grow a lot of our own food. Think how much they cut out of the whole cycle-no trucking, no packaging and it was organic.
Redbike7
2006 America
No amount of skill can overcome gross stupidity. Ask me how I know...never mind, I forgot...
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Re: ranting and raving WAY OT
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,639 Likes: 3
Old Hand
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OP
Old Hand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,639 Likes: 3 |
Reminds me of my grandmothers victory garden. It was about an acre in size. The cellar was full of canned stuff for the winter and all summer and fall, everything was fresh picked. She only went to the market for meat, soap and paper goods, and that was only once a month when the rationing stamps came out.
On the other side of the family, my grandfather was one of the pioneers in hydroponic gardening. He liked his sliced pickles to be uniform in size, so he grew cucumbers in the basement in glass tubes to control the diameter.
Let's hope there's intelligent life somewhere in space 'cause it's buggar all down here. -- Monte Python
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Re: ranting and raving WAY OT
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,219 Likes: 61
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,219 Likes: 61 |
Growing up my grandparents had 2 gardens. We owned a farm but rented the fields out to the local farmer, I would guess the 2 gardens were about an acre or so too. The farmer would come down and plow them for us when he plowed the field next to them. I actually miss that, nothing like fresh picked produce. My uncle also had a farm that I worked on as a kid, used to pick the sweet corn and eat it right off the stalk, nothing like it, if you have never done it then you don't know how sweet it can be.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: ranting and raving WAY OT
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 401
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Mar 2008
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Our local council are forcing us to recycle, no problem, I'll do my bit, but then you realise that they will only accept certain types of plastic like milk bottles, but not plastic containers from my Chinese takeaway??? The local recycling centre isn't geared up for different materials and runs at a loss of millions of pounds of taxpayers money per year. I get a £1000 fine if I don't recycle, properly, or over fill my bins  . The supermarket doesn't want to give me carrier bags (which I recycle as bin bags) but they still wrap their products in 3 layers of unrecycleable crap!
The path of excess leads to the Palace of Wisdom
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