Bonneville America Forums Forums Technical Forums Performance Mods progressive 440 vs 412

The 440's are double the price. Anyone have experience with both and can tell me whether it's worth double the cost and why?

Wasn't that long ago that you asked pretty much the same question in this thread. Is there anything more specific you wanted to know?

After over 2 years reading about the Progressives on this forum and the old one, I don't think you can go wrong with either one. Just depends on how much money you have to spend. I'm planning on getting the heavy duty 412s for Christmas since I ride 2up about every other weekend, and on a few longer trips 4 or 5 times a year.

Not really the same question at all. Back then i asked for opinions on the 412 and said i didn't want the 440's because of the price. After deciding on the 412's they've been on backorder.in fact, they've been backordered since well before i decided on the 412's. This is at MAW. No where else has them that i can find. This is the reason for this new thread....since i may wait for an eternity for the 412's, i am now willing to fork over DOUBLE the cost for the 440's which are available now. Just one concern, and thats the point of this thread.....are they worth double? Or in other words, are they much better because ifnot i'd hate to spend twice as much just because i may have to wait another month or 2.

Ok, just my opinion though.
I love my 440s. I have ridden Speedies/TBAs with both and chose the 440s because they assist in gripping the road nicely and have much more adjustability to them. They screw up/down linearly so it is pretty much an infinite adjustment, not just 4 clicks and you choose. Nice feature for us folks that keep getting larger.
But, like I said, just my opinion, and we all know about opinions, eh?

Have you tried bikebandit.com? That's where I got my Progressive fork springs, and they have the 412s. Although the listed price is higher than mawonline.com, MAW does charge 4% of the listed price for "handling", and they add on shipping to that.

Well I was looking at the 412 heavy duty shocks and there's only a $9 difference between MAW and Bike Bandit when you figure in the 4%. Speaking of which, here's the shipping and handling policy from MAW:

"Handling, Insurance & Shipping Costs- Handling and insurance charges are calculated at 4% of the value of the item/s you are ordering with a $4.95 minimum. Shipping charges are based on the shipping method you select to receive your item/s and are calculated on a per line basis. In some cases, we may need to split your order and ship it using multiple packages or out of different shipping points, also some closeout items maybe invoiced and shipped separately. In either case this will Not increase your shipping or handling costs."

I've ordered a few things from MAW in the past....bag guards, and saddlebags. When you hit your shopping cart to check out, it guides you to a page with the company policies which is where the above quoted passage was taken from. MAW does have good prices, some of the best around, but you just need to be aware of the 4% handling tacked on when comparing them to other online e-tailers.

man Sal, you just said something that made me realize the progressive company are idiots. I called them and asked what gives with the 2 different looking 412's and they didn't even know one is the heavy duty !!! i didn't either which was why i called them. i was on the phone for 15 min waiting for the girl i was talking to to find out why one looked different. She didn't even know, and i had given her the page with the pic on it ! then when you said this i looked at the bikebandit site again and noticed they have a pic of the 2 types side by side and one says heavy duty ! Geez.....you'd think the ****** company would know thier own products !Anyway, i gave her the part # and told her which shock i wanted in the pic and she said it was the one i wanted which thanks to your post turns out to be the heavy duty. So if she's right, the heavy duty is $182 at maw. The bikebandit site shows a cost of $261.33 but doesn't show different prices for regular or HD, so i don't know whether they're the same price or what. This is all getting so confusing i believe i will probably just go with the 440's anyway !

It isn't unusual these days for a customer service rep not knowing the product line or which application you need. The manufacturer's part # for the 412 heavy duty is 412-4252C+ as per the Progressive website. At mawonline.com that part number lists for $239.95. The 412 that's not the heavy duty model is part number 412-4253C+, and it lists for $182.95 at MAW. All the part numbers from the application finder on the Progressive website are good ones.

If you end up with the 440's, let us know if they're worth the money.

I've decided....440's. i'll try and remember to post back in this thread when i try them, but it may be a while because whiole i can afford them, i've already put so much into the bike i'd rather wait till i sell a few things, as i've got a ton of music gear to sell on ebay. The 440's sound really good from what i read. May as well get the best since i plan on keeping the bike till a new speedy comes out that i can't resist, and even then the shocks will go to the new one if they fit. Thanks for the help Sal....i was more in the dark about these than i even thought ! They sure don't make it easy to understand what the **** you're buying sometimes.

Posted this over on the current trat.net thread, and thought I'd cross post to here. I noticed on BellaCorse that Mike sells the IKON with black springs for $320. Price wise that's in between the 412s and 440s. Their performance also seems to indicate that their between the Progressives: "4 Position Externally Adjustable Rebound Dampening, 3 Position Spring Preload Adjustment, Progressive Rate Springs in Black or Chrome."

The 412s have 5 positon preload adjustment, but don't have any rebound dampening adjustment. The 440 series has a threaded preload adjustment for fine tuning, and has the IAS system that controls the dampening of the wheel and chassis independently from each other(well, at least according to the Progressive website hype).

Hmm, decisions decisions.

Well here's what their website says:

" The Ultimate in ride quality. The Inertia Active System (I.A.S.) 440 Series Twin Shocks are the most state-of-the-art shocks available to the public."

"The 440 Series I.A.S. shock is able to separate chassis movement from wheel movement. What you get is a shock that is able to float over the rough stuff, yet won’t wallow in the twists and turns. They are absolutely the best shock available when it comes to today’s high torque shaft-drive motorcycles. No other shock can control the torque inputs of a shaft drive and still maintain a smooth and plush ride."

"I.A.S.® technology utilizes two separate rebound damping circuits to control chassis and wheel movement independently for the ultimate in stability and comfort. I.A.S. was developed for automotive use by Edelbrock using Ricor technology, but has been refined by Progressive Suspension for motorcycle use."

Other than that, I dunno. Maybe it's magic and voodoo, all held together by Pat's RTV.

edit: Found a little more explanation at Edelbrock's site.

Seems it somehow senses when the road is rough and this valve opens to allow more oil flow for a squishier feel, then closes for a firmer ride on smmooth surfaces. Sounds quite interesting. Sorta like it switches between firmer and softer settings as needed which would be worth the price of admission right there if it really works well.
Unfortunatly it seems theres a possibility i may be w/o a job soon. So i'll have to wait on these and see if i still have a job to go to soon. of course thats a much bigger concern right now than shocks anyway. But if i'm still there in a few weeks i'll be ordering them.

Hmmm looks interesting. I also wonder how that valve kicks open. Hydraulics are interesting things!!!

Dale, hope the job works out for ya!! Been layed off myself, it sucked, aside from the extra riding time

Thanks. I do too......sorta.

I think when you encounter a rough surface, the jolt exerted on the valve by the oil probably opens it more. just a thought, but i was wondering that too.

Yeah I think maybe that falve is spring loaded, so a faster push (rough bump) will open it as opposed to gentle undulations (corners, etc) will open it. Dual stage I guess...

Excellent link there Sal. (edlebrock)
Now I see the reasoning behind the IAS. Even gladderer I got them now.

You mean you bought 'em without checkin' out their engineering?

So do the 440 shocks perform as advertised? Do the soak up the harsh bumps and firm up through the smooth twisties?

Well, i hope they're as good as they sound cuz i just ordered a pair. I'll let y'all know how they are in a couple weeks when i had a chance to give em a go. Man, am i looking forward to spinal relief from those potholes !(and hopefully sweet hadling characteristics)

I already added the fork springs, mainly to relieve the dive which it did. I will post when i get the 440's.

Sal, Ok, bust me back smart A**.
Yes, they do work exactly as advertised. The bumps are gone and the road stiction is excellent. I have never had my rear slip out with these even in the slightest. On the stockers I used to scare myself when the rear end would start to skip around on me when I cornered hard and fast. It's sometimes hard to tell because the ride is so nice and I'm very used to them now. Then I ride someone elses bike and wow, what a huge difference. The stock shocks feel like pogo sticks with only 2" of play then they bottom out or just float/skip all over the place. The fronts, well, everyone already knows about the stock front being way less than desirable.

Dinqua, thanks for that. You described my feelings to a T. I notice the back end skipping around and sliding now and then too when riding hard. I felt it did it too easily and it makes me nervous even when riding slow but talking corners with a steep angle. This has been bothering me and i was hoping the shocks would help but wasn't sure. Thanks for confirming that.

It's odd, but when i was young i rode bikes that didn't handle near as well as my current bike. Yet at the same time thier rears didn't slide out like this even tho today i don't ride nearly as stupid. At first i attributed this to possibly being the tires, but after reading your post i'm glad to see i was wrong. Now i cannot wait to try these. Thanks !

Actually it's a speedmaster so the tires are metzlers. In fact, i was suprised at the performance because i'd heard people singing thier praises more than a few times. So I have to think it is the shocks that are responsible. Really looking forward to the 440's.

It's never just one thing.... When it's time for new tires, consider something like Avons, but I bet you will see a VAST improvement with new shocks. I can't wait to afford them

I have the progressive spriings up front with 15 wt oil metzler lazertec III tire, Progressive 440's in the rear with the stock tire (that'll be gone next spring) the ride is butter smooth even on the patch work road surfaces. I imagine the ride will be even better with the new rear tire. BTW I have no problems keeping up with my buddy who spent far more on his suspension.

Got the shocks the other day and have done a bit of riding since. The changes i think are worth it. the look was a little extra bonus i didn't necassarily expect, but they really do enhance the level of quality in looks of the bike. The differences i've noticed are of course smoothness. They change the overall feel of the bike in a nice way. Nothing drastic, but nice. The handling has changed for the better too. I find the bike seems to not only want to fall into turns nicer than it did, (used to seem to fight me when i wanted to lay it over in tight turns especially) but feels more stable. I think over time i'll come to like the performance even more too. The no tools adjustment has allowed me to stop on the side of the road and adjust them in seconds which makes it easy to dial in. I've gone from 2 turns from softest to 1-1/2 to one and finally i'm down to 1/2 turn without sacrificing handling. It allows a real smooth ride yet doesn't give you that bouncing swaying feel when cornering on rough surfaces. As for potholes and other jolting road flaws, i still can't say for sure because the few i PURPOSLY hit to see how they handled them were when i had them adjusted much stiffer than i do now. Tho they did soften them a good deal. But i think where they are set now will all but eliminate the jolts they give with the stock shocks.

Are they worth it? Compared to the cheaper 412's i can't say. But 4 bills really isn't a lot considering that you spend that much on a few cosmetic things that don't have any performance function. Yet with these you get a nice cosmetic boost along with the superior ride. For me it was worth it. Very nice shocks w/o a doubt. I ordered the ikons a while back and returned them because the chrome was chipping off the shroud and the overall quality level didn't look nearly as good as the 440's and the price was only a bit more. I'm happy with them and feel the bike's handling capabilities have been maximized.