 There it goes again
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Here's yet another "cause" for petrol prices going up out of sight... http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080427/ap_o..._OlIdnGxREE1vAI
Let's hope there's intelligent life somewhere in space 'cause it's buggar all down here. -- Monte Python
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Re: There it goes again
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Ed, I'll bet you a buck that the average price of gas is over $4 a gallon before May 15th! Why wait till Memorial Day, we all know it'll be here before that. What, no takers? 
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There was an articale in yahoo news the other day, 2 small unidenified boats got to close to a US chartered cargo ship in the Persian Gulf, The cargo ships security crew fired warning shots. No one was hit, but when word of the incedent got to oil traders, the price of crude went up 3 bucks a barrel.........any excuse will do.
The percentage you're paying is too high-priced
While you're living beyond all your means
And the man in the suit has just bought a new car
From the profit he's made on your dreams
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This is getting out of hand.. Cost me 17 dollars to fill the BA up today. If a butterfly passes gas in the jungle,, gas prices will go up.. There is NO reason for this, just filling the pockets of greedy oil tycoons.
Dont like what you see??? Big red X in the top right of your screen will fix it!
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Actually, I just read an article on Yahoo, and the President of OPEC said that it is entirely feasible for oil to hit $200 a barrel this year. According to him, for every 1% decline in the value of the dollar, oil will go up $4 a barrel! If it weren't for the fact that it would kill a bunch of fish and wildlife, I'd say it's about time to dump a tankerful of oil into Boston Harbor.... 
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I was wondering about the effect of an "Energy tarrif" on grain exports to the oil producing countries. They are holding us hostage for fuel, do the same for food, and put the money into alternate fuel reasearch and funding. Sound too simplistic?  Would ya pass the vasiline? later, Tom.
But, what do I know?
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I would pass the Vaseline Tom, but since it is PETROLEUM jelly, I've been having to make do with drippings and sludge from my ScottOiler... Gotta recycle that oil somehow ya know! 
Last edited by Bayern710; 04/28/2008 11:19 AM.
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Re: There it goes again
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Too bad they bombed so many German synthetic oil and fuel plants on the 40's, we could use a few now.
Let's hope there's intelligent life somewhere in space 'cause it's buggar all down here. -- Monte Python
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Re: There it goes again
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Quote:
Too bad they bombed so many German synthetic oil and fuel plants on the 40's, we could use a few now.
You know, I was thinking about that just recently.
I wouldn't be surprised if the technology was lying around, just waiting to be introduced.
I also wouldn't be surprised if all this talk about oil reserves is just BS and that producers, oil companies and governments aren't just making the most of it.
My own feeling is that the earth still has massive untapped oil reserves.
Bedouin.
Blessed are those eyes that have seen more roads than any man! (Homer).
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Quote:
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Too bad they bombed so many German synthetic oil and fuel plants on the 40's, we could use a few now.
You know, I was thinking about that just recently.
I wouldn't be surprised if the technology was lying around, just waiting to be introduced.
I also wouldn't be surprised if all this talk about oil reserves is just BS and that producers, oil companies and governments aren't just making the most of it.
My own feeling is that the earth still has massive untapped oil reserves.
Well, so far, 2 major figures in OPEC say that there is NO shortage of oil, and that they could increase output, so that kind of answers that question right there. I think, ever so slowly, people are finally waking up to the fact that we are being manipulated by Wall Street and the companies, when all of the evidence keeps pointing back to prices being artificially pushed up. For years, we have been told that there was a shortage of crude, or of refining capacity, or that the Chinese were buying up all of the gas, or now the latest one, that prices are skyrocketing because of the fall of the dollar, or because a single tanker was shot at. Talk about an endless string of excuses, none of which really holds water. I'm quite sure that other industries, such as the Electric Utility industry, routinely take down powerplants or reactors for maintenance, but you don't see a daily rise in electricity prices, do you. Natural gas is piped across some pretty unstable regions of the former Soviet Union, where a disruption could be caused by something as simple as an insurgent with an RPG, but you don't see Natural Gas prices climbing like Oil Prices. Heck, even crop failures don't cause price climbs like we see now. China imports a huge amount of our wheat, and every day, another 800 acres of China (I believe that was the figure given) turns to desert, yet, you don't see wheat going up a $1 a bushell a day, do you?
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Re: There it goes again
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Greg,
In addition to what you have just said ...
Drilling for oil (investements) were attractive (otherwise the seven sisters would have pulled out long ago) when oil prices where at $35.
Imagine what ROI they would get at circa. $120.
Without my getting into a detailed analysis I'll limit my comment to ''something's not right here''.
Bedouin.
Blessed are those eyes that have seen more roads than any man! (Homer).
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Re: There it goes again
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Fe Butt
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“What this country needs is a good five cent cigar.â€-Thomas R. Marshall 1854-1925 American Statesman, Vice President of the USA 1913-21.
(and unfortunately, we've got just about as good a chance at ever seein' that as seein' 3 dollar a gallon gas again here...better just get used to it, folks)
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: There it goes again
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Fe Butt
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Quote:
Quote:
Too bad they bombed so many German synthetic oil and fuel plants on the 40's, we could use a few now.
You know, I was thinking about that just recently.
I wouldn't be surprised if the technology was lying around, just waiting to be introduced.
I also wouldn't be surprised if all this talk about oil reserves is just BS and that producers, oil companies and governments aren't just making the most of it.
My own feeling is that the earth still has massive untapped oil reserves.
I just saw a program on History,Discovery,or TLC where scientists were saying they really aren't sure oil is a fossil fuel and it may be that oil is a byproduct of the Earths internal workings and thus being renewed all the time.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: There it goes again
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Quote:
“What this country needs is a good five cent cigar.â€-Thomas R. Marshall 1854-1925 American Statesman, Vice President of the USA 1913-21.
(and unfortunately, we've got just about as good a chance at ever seein' that as seein' 3 dollar a gallon gas again here...better just get used to it, folks)
Since I don't see any National Mission for a viable alternative fuel program (or transit programs) along the lines of Kennedy's challenge to put a Man on the Moon, I guess we certainly will get used to it...
Instead of a pledge to return to the Moon by whenever it was, how about a call to end our importation of any foreign oil, or implementation of a viable alternative fuel (on the market!) by 2015?
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Re: There it goes again
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Fe Butt
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...how about a call to end our importation of any foreign oil, or implementation of a viable alternative fuel (on the market!) by 2015?
Sounds like pretty drastic measures which would insure 8 dollar a gallon gas to me, Greg.
OR...having wells and pumps dotted throughout the country next door to all our homes where the remaining deposits sit, and/or along the length of our shorelines.
Though I DO like your "Kennedy-esque" take on a "new mission toward alternative fuel sources". However, I'm guessin' many of the share-holders of Big Oil might take exception to your idea.
(but that's just "a guess", ya know) 
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: There it goes again
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Bar Shake
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Ed, I'll bet you a buck that the average price of gas is over $4 a gallon before May 15th! Why wait till Memorial Day, we all know it'll be here before that. What, no takers?
I bet 4th of July weekend.  I'm getting a Prius first chance I get. I wonder if I can tow a boat with those things.  I always wondered what it would like to be a geek. Then I will have to buy a pocket protector for my pens. The price of a barrel of oil is definitely not going down anytime soon. 
"Catching a yellow jacket in your shirt at seventy miles per hour can double your vocabulary" Author unknown
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Re: There it goes again
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I grew up in southern Illinois with oil wells all around (yeah, you wouldn't think that, but my grandfather started with Pure Oil down there way back in the late 40's, and it still produces oil), so that wouldn't bother me so much so long as they are properly handled and environment concerns are looked after. But, yeah, my main hope would be a National Goal, National Challenge, whatever you might want to call it, of a viable Alternative Fuel program. Shoot, build me a Stanley Steamer on Clean Coal Technology, I've got 2 kids who can stoke the boilers on family outings!! Or, like everything else any more, are we just going to wait a few more years, let the Chinese beat us to it, and then import it? 
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Quote:
Or, like everything else any more, are we just going to wait a few more years, let the Chinese beat us to it, and then import it?
If they can do that and put it on the market at a fraction of what it is ... why not?
Bedouin.
Blessed are those eyes that have seen more roads than any man! (Homer).
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Re: There it goes again
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Quote:
Quote:
Or, like everything else any more, are we just going to wait a few more years, let the Chinese beat us to it, and then import it?
I look at it also from a technology and jobs perspective, albeit also a nationalistic viewpoint. I think we have enough talent in this country to do it ourselves, but are letting our own stupidity get in our way. Plus, I see the Chinese as somewhat of a threat instead of "just" a competitor (not just to the US either), so the idea of developing this technology ourselves instead of then being "hostage" to China (like we are with OPEC currently) appeals to me.
If they can do that and put it on the market at a fraction of what it is ... why not?
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Quote:
I look at it also from a technology and jobs perspective, albeit also a nationalistic viewpoint.
Oh .. I don't know Greg. I've gotten beyond the concept of the modern "nation state" - an artifact of the 18th and 19th century.
To me it's a cartographic illusion.
Borderless capital has made it so (and in my view, rightly so).
Bedouin.
Blessed are those eyes that have seen more roads than any man! (Homer).
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Perhaps, but when you have to lower your standard of living drastically in order to be able to compete economically, then it becomes a very contentious issue. SO, either we have to bring the standard of living in China up to a higher level where we are on a level playing field with regard to the cost of trade, or conversely, give up everything, and have a miserable standard of living as is the case in most of China, Viet Nam, etc... just so that we can compete for jobs. So, OK, maybe not Nationalism per se, more like selfishness, plain and simple. I am not wealthy beyond means, but I certainly like what little I do have, and am not about to give it all up just so everyone in China can have it too, and we can be miserable together.
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Fe Butt
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I like the idea of raising the price of food every time they raise the price of oil. We can walk if we really had to or ride horses again but they have to eat.
EDIT: I know fully well it isn't that simple but sure sounds good.
Last edited by The_Dog33; 04/28/2008 5:02 PM.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: There it goes again
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Member
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Well $4 a gallon eh. I give anything to pay that. In UK we are paying the equivalent of $11.26 per gallon. ****** government 
Back to biking fanatic. Current model BA02 & Suzuki GSX R600 Alstare Corona Extra . UK based.Mechanically improving and loves to play (with bikes as well)
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Re: There it goes again
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I saw that on the news yesterday,I saw a map that said $8 a gal. but was shocked to see on TV a few minutes later that was saying over $11 a gal! That's just crazy.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: There it goes again
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Quote:
So, OK, maybe not Nationalism per se, more like selfishness, plain and simple.
Then don't expect to find a "national" level solution. It doesn't work both ways.
Like I said previously, the practicalities of what used to be a modern "nation state" is a cartographic illusion.
A "nation state" implies that a government exists.
A government (contrary to what politicians would have us believe) is however, powerless to create jobs, wealth or competitiveness.
At best they can give "hand outs" or "tax cuts" and call them (pseudo)incentives.
If a country's industries are becoming less competitive or obsolete, then it is in the hands of the shareholders/private entities to either innovate or adjust to the new circumstances.
One cannot blame another country for being more competitive. Nor should another country's industries voluntarily level the playing field just because of another's shortcomings.
China's standard of living is ... China's problem.
On the other hand it's private capital that creates jobs and that is held by private individuals or entities.
They will have their capital travel to wherever it serves them best (irrespective of their own or the host country's government).
What you may not be aware of is that many (if not the majority) of the manufacturing concerns in China are actually owned/funded by capital from Taiwan.
Go figure eh?
History repeats itself and in the process adjusts to contemporary circumstances/conditions ... or is it vice versa?
Bedouin.
Blessed are those eyes that have seen more roads than any man! (Homer).
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Well, in some ways you are right, but when we allow Chinese companies to operate more freely here than we are allowed there (how many companies here or in Europe can be majority-owned by Chinese investors or companies when compared to US Investors or companies in China, where outsiders must maintain minority shares). In that case, it is up to Governments to negotiate trade policies that are not giving away the farm, as we say here. And for a couple decades now, our government has negotiated policies which allowed US Manufacturing to be exported, and foreign investment to grow here while our companies faced restrictions overseas.
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That's how I see it Greg, well put!
And we need to stop turning food(corn) into fuel that uses
more energy to produce than it yields.
OPEC can't eat the oil, and they need to be told that in
no uncertain terms.
Problem is, the countries that have the oil are controlled
by a small group(just like here), and they make all the money,
while the general population lives in squalor.
We'll be there soon.
I believe(and time will prove me right or wrong) that the US
has access to more oil than the middle east, but we're gonna
use theirs up first. Then we'll hold all the cards. Food & Oil.
In the meantime, I saw $3.90/gal regular today.
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Re: There it goes again
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Quote:
Well, in some ways you are right, but when we allow Chinese companies to operate more freely here than we are allowed there (how many companies here or in Europe can be majority-owned by Chinese investors or companies when compared to US Investors or companies in China, where outsiders must maintain minority shares). In that case, it is up to Governments to negotiate trade policies that are not giving away the farm, as we say here. And for a couple decades now, our government has negotiated policies which allowed US Manufacturing to be exported, and foreign investment to grow here while our companies faced restrictions overseas.
Greg,
I know what you mean but it seems that both parties are quite happy i.e. U.S. Investors in China (with or without restrictions) and Chinese investors in the US.
I wouldn't be too sure about the US not imposing restrictions though, just check out the recent Virgin Airways saga.
Just as a point of interest, I recently bought an HP server and guess what?
Several components (including the casing) were made in China.
It would seem that their investment there (even if restricted shareholding-wise) manufactures products considerably more cheaply which obviously affects their US bottom line (since they are sold as US products) in a positive way, which in turn makes the US shareholders happy.
Anyhow, if the exporting of US manufacturing (whether it be China or Mexico or wherever) is a problem, then restrictions abroad should be welcomed.
Come to think of it, they are not necessarily looking to make a profit THERE per se, but elsewhere, e.g. even if they barely break even there, the products/components manufactured are sold elsewhere under a US corporate banner at a decent profit, as was the case with my server.
They also will benefit from a massive market (especially in the case of China).
My point is, don't shed any tears for the companies.
Bedouin.
Blessed are those eyes that have seen more roads than any man! (Homer).
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Re: There it goes again
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Quote:
I believe(and time will prove me right or wrong) that the US
has access to more oil than the middle east, but we're gonna
use theirs up first.
UncleCharlie,
I don't think it will make your oil prices any cheaper, in fact I would think that the monopoly by the companies will elevate the prices.
I would pray for more worldwide production, not less.
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Then we'll hold all the cards. Food & Oil.
I got the oil part ... but the food?
Lastly, I need to say something ...
I am truly sorry that the prices keep going up, especially in the US.
Throughout all the years when gas was cheap for you guys I used to say to myself "that's the way it should be ... good for them!".
I would say this knowing how much we in Europe are taxed (read whacked) on gas.
Unfortunately, this is no longer the case for you.
Bedouin.
Blessed are those eyes that have seen more roads than any man! (Homer).
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Re: There it goes again
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I believe(and time will prove me right or wrong) that the US
has access to more oil than the middle east, but we're gonna
use theirs up first.
I wasn't advocating this, but think it's what's gonna happen.
but the food?
You can't grow crops in the desert.
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I see what you mean, athough I think it's going to be a bit more complicated.
I put my money (or at least my hopes) on the synthetic fuel idea Greybeard mentioned earlier.
I can't see the technology (or research thereof) having been abandoned since the Germans during WWII.
Someone must have this ace up their sleeve.
Bedouin.
Blessed are those eyes that have seen more roads than any man! (Homer).
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Re: There it goes again
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Fe Butt
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Quote:
...but the food?
You can't grow crops in the desert.
Hey Charlie, evidently you've never been to Bakersfield, Blythe or Indio California, huh?!
Of course, comparing the great state of California with anyplace else on God's green earth may not exactly be fair, ya know!
_________________________
Okay folks...THIS is NOW your opportunity to unload all those old jokes/rants o' yours about California for being:
(a)The World's 7th largest economy
or
(b)The home of all those "Hollywood Types"
or
(c)Having some the best weather on earth for RIDING A MOTORCYCLE ALL YEAR AROUND!!! 
(...of course, all the while paying over FOUR FRIGGIN' BUCKS FOR A GALLON O' GAS NOWDAYS however!!!!)
Last edited by Dwight; 04/29/2008 11:29 AM.
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Fe Butt
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Oh sorry, I almost forgot... (d)The home of that smarta$$ who posts way too much on this website.  
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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And they're going to hold on to that ace as long as there is still a drop of oil in the ground. The modern oil industry is barely 150 years old, circa 1850. Here's an interesting link http://www.sjgs.com/history.htmlThe middle east was explored, and developed, by the major oil co's in the 50's and 60's. They figured out what they had, nationalised the industry, and kicked us out. This may be an oversimplifacation, but is essentially what happened. Now, they seem to have us by the short hairs. Them and the oil co's. What's the answer? Wish I knew.
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Quote:
I see what you mean, athough I think it's going to be a bit more complicated.
I put my money (or at least my hopes) on the synthetic fuel idea Greybeard mentioned earlier.
I can't see the technology (or research thereof) having been abandoned since the Germans during WWII.
Someone must have this ace up their sleeve.
I'd guess the technology is still there, problem is the people with the money equipment and knowhow to do it are the oil companies themselves,and they have very little insentive to spend the kind of money fully develope it.
It will probly be a country like China that makes it happen,
The Gov can spend billions on whatever projects they feel like, without any type of protests.
The percentage you're paying is too high-priced
While you're living beyond all your means
And the man in the suit has just bought a new car
From the profit he's made on your dreams
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Quote:
I see what you mean, athough I think it's going to be a bit more complicated.
I put my money (or at least my hopes) on the synthetic fuel idea Greybeard mentioned earlier.
I can't see the technology (or research thereof) having been abandoned since the Germans during WWII.
Someone must have this ace up their sleeve.
Oh, it's not. I'm working on A-Stoff, B-Stoff and T-Stoff in my Bunker, ooops, I mean, my basement right now so I can apply V2 Technology to my bike...
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Speaking of "working in the depths", Greg...What's the latest with you possibly working a little higher in elevation anyway? (...like say, in a certain state who's capitol is a mile high in elevation maybe?!)
Last edited by Dwight; 04/29/2008 10:18 AM.
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Posts: 8,639 Likes: 3
Old Hand
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OP
Old Hand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,639 Likes: 3 |
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Or, like everything else any more, are we just going to wait a few more years, let the Chinese beat us to it, and then import it?
If they can do that and put it on the market at a fraction of what it is ... why not?
Because, as we are very slowly learning, when your primary export is money you are in deep trouble.
Let's hope there's intelligent life somewhere in space 'cause it's buggar all down here. -- Monte Python
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Re: There it goes again
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,518 Likes: 32
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,518 Likes: 32 |
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I see what you mean, athough I think it's going to be a bit more complicated.
I put my money (or at least my hopes) on the synthetic fuel idea Greybeard mentioned earlier.
I can't see the technology (or research thereof) having been abandoned since the Germans during WWII.
Someone must have this ace up their sleeve.
Oh, it's not. I'm working on A-Stoff, B-Stoff and T-Stoff in my Bunker, ooops, I mean, my basement right now so I can apply V2 Technology to my bike...
And it will be in tablet format to be mixed with sea water (thus reducing alleged rising levels), right?
Bedouin.
Blessed are those eyes that have seen more roads than any man! (Homer).
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Re: There it goes again
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,954
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,954 |
Why Dwight, whatever do you mean? At this point, one face to face down with a company in Englewood (but they're still wading through interviews, so I'm moving forward and looking elsewhere until I hear otherwise), and one phone interview with a company in Boulder that is launching a new implantable hearing device for people who don't want hearing aids (or because of malformed or damaged ears, can't wear hearing aids) in the US. It sounded promising, but like I said about the other one, I just keep looking and interviewing. Financially though, now I am in a better position should the move come, and as each month passes until Sept (the end of my old relocation contract), it only gets better...
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