 Honda Civic Hybrid
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 807
3/4 Throttle
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3/4 Throttle
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 807 |
My 2p's worth. Don't bother with a hybrid, buy a small diesel. Cheaper to buy and just as economical. I run a 96 Citroen AX diesel (1.5, normally-aspirated) and get about 55mpg town or distance. I run it on a mixture of diesel and veggie oil; the ratios vary with the temperature. In the summer, it's about 25/75 diesel/oil, with correspondingly less oil as the temperature drops (as with most oils, veggie oil gets thicker the colder it is; too cold and it won't pump. Some people upgrade their fuel pumps, others fit pre-heaters.) Running it with at least a 50/50 mix makes the car run noticeably quicker, smoother and quieter. Smells nicer than diesel, too!!  (Incidentally, I work for a Honda dealership and have driven the hybrid. What can I say? It's a car, when you stop, the engine 'stops', which is quite spooky until you get used to it. My opinion? See sentences 2+3.)
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Re: Honda Civic Hybrid
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,537
Check Pants
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Check Pants
Joined: Jan 2005
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I get about 42 mpg on this one and around 15 with the SS in the background (also a '96). Well, maybe around 10-12 mpg when we're having some fun.  Quote:
Quote:
[What year Impala SS?
Oh dear Al, it was one of your favorites; a blue-green 1996 with the LT-1 engine package and the only year with a tach. Man, I loved that car and put over 100,000 miles on it. I wish the passenger compartment had been better made, it sure was noisy; but dude! what an engine package she had. Giddyup!
Al
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Re: Honda Civic Hybrid
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,537
Check Pants
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Check Pants
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I was on I-95 today, up in CT just North of NYC. From the road, I saw a "Smart" car dealership in an elevated display house. Has anyone seen one of these up close? They are just barely larger than the two front seats. I saw one in upstate NY a few weeks back. I'd love to take a ride in one, bet they knock down some serious MPG. The news article for the CT dealer reflects they get about 40 mpg. http://mikecoppola.wordpress.com/2007/06/05/smart-car-to-launch-1st-usa-dealership-in-fairfiled-ct/
Al
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Re: Honda Civic Hybrid
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,537
Check Pants
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Check Pants
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,537 |
Quote:
My 2p's worth. Don't bother with a hybrid, buy a small diesel. Cheaper to buy and just as economical.
I run a 96 Citroen AX diesel
That's our problem here in the states - we have NO diesel option period, much less a micro-diesel like your AX (we're not serious about saving fuel as pointed out earlier). The AX looks cool! (well, ugly, but cool techically!)
http://www.dervman.com/citroenax.htm
Have you driven the Accord diesel? If so, whats your opinion? I actually emailed a UK Honda dealer for info on the motor, but they coyly re-directed me to Honda UK and than back to the States.
Last edited by ssjones; 03/24/2008 8:43 PM.
Al
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Re: Honda Civic Hybrid
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Joined: Mar 2005
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Adjunct
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Adjunct
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I would like to make a simple statement and then rant some more:
Please do research before commenting. Getting facts from one or two sources about global warming, hybrids, diesels etc. and stating those does not make it correct.
While many of you may not wish to drive a hybrid that fine. Go diesel.....go smaller for better MPG.....Hey try recyling...its really not that hard unless you are a totally lazy piece of crap that never moves. As i stated one should get the most fuel effecient vehicle for what its needed for. Does anyone need a 1 ton truck if all they do is haul lumber to their house to build a deck or pull a small trailer behind it? Not really but people do it all the time.....but if you need a truck or SUV purchase one but by all means research and buy the most efficient lowest carbon foot print model that you can no matter what automaker its from.
Anyways...just my opinion. Please feel free to call me a "greenie" "treehugger" "idiot" or whatever you prefer cause it doesnt bother me. Global warming DOES exist. WE can do things very easily in our own lifes to combat it. Doing nothing, again...my opinion, is why we are in the position we are in now.
2003 Red and Black Speedy. What do I want to change on my bike next????
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Re: Honda Civic Hybrid
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,243 Likes: 64
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,243 Likes: 64 |
Global warming only exists in the minds of some, it depends who you ask. Some say it's part of the natural cycle of the planet and the gas we produce doesn't even equal 1 good volcano. If the world were serious about this global warming they would look at factories and power plants before the piddly little bit cars and trucks make. It's OK to say buy this buy that, there are those out there that can't afford to buy anything new and take what they can afford. There are also guys like me that both can't afford new cars or trucks (unless my house sells soon then I'll get a nice new 1 Ton flat bed and a new pick up) So I fix and drive what I have. I need my old 1 Ton it puts food on my table.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Honda Civic Hybrid
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As I stated if u need that type vehicle for work etc. buy it...if u dont and just want it cause its big then a better decision can be made. Whatever purchase u make....old, new etc.....put some thought into it. If all u can afford is a 1000 buck junker at least buy one that doesnt smoke etc....u can still make a wise decision based on what u have to choose from.
All i am really asking is that people put some thought into not only vehicle purchases but everyday purchases too.
I totally agree......hit the factories and plants...they wreak havoc.
2003 Red and Black Speedy. What do I want to change on my bike next????
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Re: Honda Civic Hybrid
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 84
Member
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Member
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Quote:
And speaking of diesel, why is it that diesel used to be a little cheaper than gasoline but now costs comparatively more than pump gas? Anybody know the answer?
(I'm normally not a conspiracist, but I'm startin' to think "something's rotten in the state of Denmark" here)
It's the eco weanies striking again. They had to reformulate diesel so there was less sulfur emmission's. So raise the price. Than this time of year it's always higher because of fuel oil use in heaters up north. So raise the price. I have a diesel p/u and it's hitting me in the pocket hard. Still takes less to refine than gas, just think were getting it up the rear end. Understand supply and demand economics but it still shouldn't be higher than premium gas. Price in our area can vary as much as 20 cents a gallon depending on station location. Last if bought was at $3.89 gallon. Have seen it as high as $4.11 a gallon in town. But my F250 gets 16 around town and 20 on hwy. I drive it less and use the bike for running around town most of the time.
The best alarm clock is sunshine on chrome. ~Author Unknown
06 Tiger
06 Bonneville T-100 (RIP)
07 America
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Re: Honda Civic Hybrid
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 1
Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
Joined: May 2007
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Quote:
It's the eco weanies striking again. They had to reformulate diesel so there was less sulfur emmission's. So raise the price.
One of the best explanations can be found within the pages of the Energy Information Administration web site:
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Historically, the average price of diesel fuel used in motor vehicles has been lower than the price of regular gasoline. However, this is not always the case. In some winters where the demand for distillate heating oil is high, the price of diesel fuel has risen above the gasoline price. Since September 2004, the price of diesel fuel has been generally higher than the price of regular gasoline all year round for several reasons:
1. High worldwide demand for diesel fuel and other distillate fuel oils, especially in Europe, China and the U.S. and a tight global refining capacity available to meet demand.
2.The transition to low-sulfur diesel fuel in the U.S., which is affecting diesel fuel production and distribution costs, typically 4 to 7 cents a gallon.
3. The Federal excise tax on diesel fuel is 6 cents per gallon higher (at 24.4 cents/gallon) than the tax on gasoline.
Energy Information Administration
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
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Re: Honda Civic Hybrid
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Joined: Dec 2007
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Adjunct
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The problem with mileage expectations where hybrid cars are concerned is that you will find most of them on the freeway where they are not getting the most out of the hybrid system. The best advantage of a hybrid system is to drive around in stop and go traffic in the inner city - then you might see the high mileage advertised, but if you dive them strictly on the freeway (which I see here in Detroit quite a lot) then you wont do better than a standard civic etc.
2007 Custom America with BUBs
I make my own parts cause I cant afford to buy theirs.
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Re: Honda Civic Hybrid
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,954
Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Saw a report some time ago about Hybrids and basically, if you drive under 80 miles at a time (the range of a fully charged battery pack), then you're fine. As soon as you cross that threshhold, and the engine has to kick in, then you start tapping into your fuel supply. Hence, when you see Hybrids doing cross country trips, they're no better off for the most part than any normal car. That's where stuff like the regenerative generator technology comes in. If they add in features like that, the batteries are also charged by the vehicle slowing down, instead of needing to start the engine. It won't totally do away with the need for the engine, but if you add it to a hybrid and do a lot of stop and go traffic, it will greatly reduce the amount of engine use and the consumption rates...
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Re: Honda Civic Hybrid
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Joined: May 2007
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Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
Joined: May 2007
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Quote:
Saw a report some time ago about Hybrids and basically, if you drive under 80 miles at a time (the range of a fully charged battery pack), then you're fine. As soon as you cross that threshhold, and the engine has to kick in, then you start tapping into your fuel supply. Hence, when you see Hybrids doing cross country trips, they're no better off for the most part than any normal car. That's where stuff like the regenerative generator technology comes in. If they add in features like that, the batteries are also charged by the vehicle slowing down, instead of needing to start the engine. It won't totally do away with the need for the engine, but if you add it to a hybrid and do a lot of stop and go traffic, it will greatly reduce the amount of engine use and the consumption rates...
That's one of the coolest things about the technology, you can watch the battery being charged when you apply the brakes or get off the gas as the car uses the energy to recharge istelf. It can be kind of spooky traveling around parking lots without the engine, you really have to look out for pedestrians since they can hear you coming. As far as highway travel goes, the electric motor kicks in when you need to pass giving you the horsepower of a 6 cylinder but the fuel mileage of a 4; typically I get 38 mpg on the highway in a car that's basically a Lexus ES 350 lite.
It's not for everyone so make your own choice.
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
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Re: Honda Civic Hybrid
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Joined: Feb 2005
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
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Thanks for supplying those answers to my above question, Ed.
In addition to the higher taxes on diesel(which begs yet another question: Why?) it appears one of the main reasons diesel costs more than pump gas today is that there are less refineries making this sort of fuel than there are making gasoline.
I guess it sort'a like why motorcycle tires cost more than car tires. They're not as mass-produced as car tires and thus cost more.
(or...as the old ad says..."How can we sell you this (fill in the blank) for so little? Volume, volume, volume!)
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: Honda Civic Hybrid
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 1
Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
Joined: May 2007
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Quote:
it appears one of the main reasons diesel costs more than pump gas today is that there are less refineries making this sort of fuel than there are making gasoline.
Once you realize that 3 billion people have rather suddenly gotten access to diesel engines it starts to make sense. The conversion to vehicular travel has really come on like flicking a light switch in China and India and when you see a figure like 3% more intake you have to balance that with their enormous population base. The US is only about 10% as populous as those two countries making a 3% increase by them equivalent to a 30% increase consumption rise for us. It's actually more than a little scary, to be honest.
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
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Re: Honda Civic Hybrid
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Jan 2005
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Blowing gravel off rural roads
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Re: Honda Civic Hybrid
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
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Prius owners do tend to be a snooty self righteous bunch. Ć¢ā¬ÅSee me? IĆ¢ā¬ā¢m a superior human being because I care about the environment!Ć¢ā¬Ā I drove one a year or two ago and it had the handling characteristics of a panel van.
The drivers of other hybrids tend to be less obnoxious and the cars usually perform better.
We all like to think of ourselves as rugged individualists. But when push comes to shove most of us are sheep who do what we are told. Worst of all, a lot of us become unpaid agents of whoever is controlling the agenda by enforcing the current dogma on the few rugged individualists who actually exist.
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Re: Honda Civic Hybrid
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Joined: May 2007
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Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
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 required reading May 1905, in an article by Victor Lougheed: "In the speculation that goes the rounds concerning the motor car of the future, there is one point on which every one seems agreed. The fuel of the future, it seems generally believed, is not likely to be gasoline."
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Re: Honda Civic Hybrid
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Joined: Feb 2005
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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HEY NOW, Larry! Not ALL of us "snooty, self-righteous" types drive Priuses(or would that be "Priui"???), ya know???!!! (some of us drive Chevy Silverados and 550 Spyders, if you don't mind!!!!)  
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: Honda Civic Hybrid
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
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Quote:
HEY NOW, Larry! Not ALL of us "snooty, self-righteous" types drive Priuses(or would that be "Priui"???), ya know???!!!
(some of us drive Chevy Silverados and 550 Spyders, if you don't mind!!!!)
You're right, sorry about that. I forgot about the exceptions to the rule.
 
We all like to think of ourselves as rugged individualists. But when push comes to shove most of us are sheep who do what we are told. Worst of all, a lot of us become unpaid agents of whoever is controlling the agenda by enforcing the current dogma on the few rugged individualists who actually exist.
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Re: Honda Civic Hybrid
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Joined: Feb 2005
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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Okay, Larry. We'll just leave it that I'm an "exceptional person" then. (s'bout time you figured this out, dude!)  
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: Honda Civic Hybrid
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Quote:
you really have to look out for pedestrians since they can't hear you coming
I have that same problem on the America, with the Bub Slash Cuts....
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Re: Honda Civic Hybrid
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,954
Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Quote:
The inconvenient truth is a convenient lie.
Perhaps, perhaps not. These days, one can find an overwhelming amount of evidence either way. What is TRUE however, is that overuse of oil directly and indirectly supports terrorists, since it finds it's way into their hands through "friends" like Saudi Arabia, and enemies like Chavez and the Nutjob in Iran. So, don't buy a hybrid to save the planet, buy one to get the US off of the Middle Eastern Monkey....
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Re: Honda Civic Hybrid
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825
"Lighten up, Francis."
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"Lighten up, Francis."
Joined: Jan 2005
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I thought this thread was about hybrid cars, not global warming.
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Re: Honda Civic Hybrid
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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all part of the big conspiracy John, you know that?
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Re: Honda Civic Hybrid
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825
"Lighten up, Francis."
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"Lighten up, Francis."
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825 |
Of course. What was I thinkin'?
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Re: Honda Civic Hybrid
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Check Pants
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Check Pants
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Wow, winter must just about be over if we're spending this amount of time talking about a gas saving car!
Soon talk of Bonnie performance upgrades and plummenting gas milage results will previal!
Al
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Re: Honda Civic Hybrid
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Joined: Mar 2005
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Adjunct
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Quote:
Quote:
Global warming DOES exist.
Further reading:
The Religion of Global Warming II.
Newsweek story: Ć¢ā¬ÅThe Cooling WorldĆ¢ā¬Ā
The Politically Incorrect Guide to Global Warming and Environmentalism
My humble opinion? Edward Blick put it succinctly:
"This whole scheme (Global Warming) is a Ć¢ā¬ÅTrojan HorseĆ¢ā¬Ā for global socialism!"
So yes, buy a car that does what you want in an environmentally friendly way. Hybrids are fine. They are just not my cup of java. But don't say global warming is real. The inconvenient truth is a convenient lie.
I said NOTHING about the inconvenient truth. I watched the movie and its just that a movie. A big majority of what was said was stretching the facts in some way just to make a point.
The point being the the ****** earth is warming.....that is a proven fact. Is it a natural cycle? maybe....maybe not. I believe it is above the normal natural cycle and looking at information from ice samples, historical records etc. it is a proven fact that the tempurature is higher now and for a longer period that during any natural cycle. Does that mean anything....really only God knows.
Believe what you want. I never said nor stated that its the worst thing in the world....we are all going to die etc. like some eco-idiots do. Nothing I stated required looking for opposite propaganda....and yes I believe some of the global warming stuff is propoganda also. That is why i say EDUCATE YOURSELF.
My statments/responses have been simply this:
1. Global warming does exist....just a simple statment...Not AL GORE CRAP
2. Make educated purchases whether it be a vehicle or anything else. Taking a few seconds to consider purchases can make a difference if enough people do it.
If anyone read anything different from my posts then please read above on what I meant to convey.
One last statement. I hope this topic never arises again on this board.
2003 Red and Black Speedy. What do I want to change on my bike next????
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Re: Honda Civic Hybrid
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Joined: Mar 2005
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Adjunct
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Adjunct
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Quote:
Prius owners do tend to be a snooty self righteous bunch. Ć¢ā¬ÅSee me? IĆ¢ā¬ā¢m a superior human being because I care about the environment!Ć¢ā¬Ā I drove one a year or two ago and it had the handling characteristics of a panel van.
The drivers of other hybrids tend to be less obnoxious and the cars usually perform better.
This is the type statement that tends to upset me. I purchased the most fuel effecient vehicle I could afford because of extensive travel for work. I get paid for mileage while working and I figured why not actually MAKE extra money. Did I like the environmental benefits....sure did.
I bought the car to drive for work....not to race around a track or tackle curvy roads like a mustang gt or something....It handles like any other compact hatchback car.....what else would u expect?
Am i snooty.....NO. As i said before....purchase the most economical vehicle that meets the needs intended. But I guess that makes me snooty....or maybe it just makes me an educated person that took at least 2 minutes to think about what i was purchasing and what I needed it for.
2003 Red and Black Speedy. What do I want to change on my bike next????
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Re: Honda Civic Hybrid
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Joined: Feb 2005
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
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Hey Steve! Just like I told Larry, what's so bad about bein' snooty anyway? I learned to embrace my "snootiness" YEARS AGO, dude! And ya know WHY??? 'Cuz after 56 years of witnessing all the dunderheads out there on this planet I've come to the realization that yes, I AM one of the smarter people out there, and this "snootiness" is just a natural by-product of being smarter than most!!! AND, I have to say after reading your well reasoned response above that you seem a little smarter than the rest out there too! So I say join the "Snooty Club", dude! You'll be in good company with people just like ME!!! And if you think I'm kidding here, just ask anybody 'round here about MY ego!!! (the only problem with this snootiness thing is that the rest of the people out there absolutely HATE IT when they have to admit to agreeing with you about somethin'....which they hate to admit is quite often....which as I said they absolutely HATE!...and I LOVE IT!!!)
Last edited by Dwight; 03/25/2008 10:43 PM.
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Re: Honda Civic Hybrid
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Adjunct
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Dwight,
Thanks for the response. My dues and membership have now been sent in for the Snooty Club.....
So are you the President?
2003 Red and Black Speedy. What do I want to change on my bike next????
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Re: Honda Civic Hybrid
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Joined: Feb 2005
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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PRESIDENT???!!! Nah!
Chairman of the friggin' Board, dude!
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: Honda Civic Hybrid
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Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
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Hey Steve, we had kind of this same go round a couple weeks ago. Nothing resolved. My Dad died when I was just 25 years old, so sometimes it takes me a while to recall some of the words of wisdom that he imparted to me during my misspent youth. But one of his aphorisms has come back to me lately. "When you argue with a fool, two fools are arguing." I mean, people are actually referring to Rush Limbaugh as some sort of authority
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, tambiƩn
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Re: Honda Civic Hybrid
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Quote:
Hey Steve, we had kind of this same go round a couple weeks ago. Nothing resolved.
My Dad died when I was just 25 years old, so sometimes it takes me a while to recall some of the words of wisdom that he imparted to me during my misspent youth.
But one of his aphorisms has come back to me lately.
"When you argue with a fool, two fools are arguing."
I mean, people are actually referring to Rush Limbaugh as some sort of authority
Very well put....your dad was very smart.
and as for the last part 
2003 Red and Black Speedy. What do I want to change on my bike next????
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Re: Honda Civic Hybrid
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
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The normal cost of a Ford Focus vs. a Toyota Hybrid with a 15MPG savings. Do the math, the ford wins until you hit 40,000 miles in every calender year over a 5 year period. You can buy 30+ gallons a month for 5 years more than the Toyota at that rate. $7,000 bucks in gas goes a long way. You save nothing until you offset the cost. The finances of it alone are a bit fuzzy for the budget minded person. Adding 6% interest to that number is a $9,400 difference or a new Triumph every 5 years Screw global warming, I will get a new bike
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
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Re: Honda Civic Hybrid
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Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
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Hybrid technology is still in it's infancy. Maybe it'll become more viable, maybe not. Time and competition from other alternatives will tell. The common rail diesels though, are pretty exciting. As for the new bike? Yeah, me too 
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, tambiƩn
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Re: Honda Civic Hybrid
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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Still hot for that Guzzi Norge, Bill?
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: Honda Civic Hybrid
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Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
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Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, tambiƩn
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Re: Honda Civic Hybrid
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Adjunct
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Adjunct
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Quote:
The normal cost of a Ford Focus vs. a Toyota Hybrid with a 15MPG savings. Do the math, the ford wins until you hit 40,000 miles in every calender year over a 5 year period. You can buy 30+ gallons a month for 5 years more than the Toyota at that rate.
$7,000 bucks in gas goes a long way.
You save nothing until you offset the cost. The finances of it alone are a bit fuzzy for the budget minded person.
Adding 6% interest to that number is a $9,400 difference or a new Triumph every 5 years
Screw global warming, I will get a new bike
You need to consider numerous other options that may or may not apply to you. Tax credits both Federal and State lowered the price CONSIDERABLY for me...adding in the fact that my work pays mileage.....and the gas savings....
Bottom line for ME (which is what i have repeatedly stated....educate yourself...make the best decision for you that is econimically viable and as environmentally friendly as possible)......
Oh yeah...bottom line for me. The cost difference between a comparable sized car that is non-hybrid is accounted for within the first two years. And take into account the mileage payments I recieve from work and I havent had to make my own car payment in a little over a year of ownership.
For some the simple calculations may be the only thing to consider but there is always the FED tax rebate and several states also have tax credits.
Also....i have excellent credit and got a 2.4% interest rate.
2003 Red and Black Speedy. What do I want to change on my bike next????
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Re: Honda Civic Hybrid
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821 |
How very snooty of you  Do you still get to depreciate the car after the credits?
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, tambiƩn
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