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Fixed Penalty Notices - Long Posting
#244302 03/02/2008 8:11 PM
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OK, sorry about the length of posting - this one should be of general interest but of particular interest to UK riders.

Recently, I got caught crossing over the first three feet of a double white line at its very commencement by an unmarked video equipped patrol car.

At the time, I had just had a set of brand new Metzelers fitted (only about 20 miles covered) to my TBA and was being particularly careful. On a fairly straight section of road, as I was increasing speed, an idiot cager pulled out from a side road in my direction. My immediate reaction was to brake but, following a slight ‘wobble’ I decided the best course of action , the road ahead being clear, was to gently accelerate and overtake him. As I pulled in in front of him, apparently, I crossed over a double white line. Of course, the unmarked plod car that I had overtaken earlier captured this performance on video.

The ars*hole that almost caused me to have an accident, did not attract plod’s attention and he got away scot free.

When I explained why I did what I did, plod did not listen and lectured me by pointing out that the reason I had been stopped was due to the Chief Constable’s concern for increasing accident statistics (doh!). Having refused to take my mitigating circumstances into account, plod subsequently proceeded to issue me with a Fixed Penalty Notice (FPN) for 60 quid together with a gift of 3 points to my licence.

Fortunately, I refused to comply with the officers request that I hand over my licence for endorsement, saying that I had yet to make up my mind whether to contest the ticket or not (whatever happened to innocence until proven otherwise?). This proved to be a very good thing to do as to do otherwise is tantamount to an admission of guilt!

Anyway, to cut a long story short, when the process was over, and the plods drove off into the sunset to clobber some other poor unsuspecting sod, I noticed my rear tyre was completely flat on account of a large nail having punctured it and my behaviour was vindicated!

When I got home, I decided to inspect the FPN and couldn’t believe my eyes and my luck that plod had made several simple mistakes.

Firstly, he had described me as ‘Mr’ when my photo licence clearly states my title (I am a retired dental surgeon). He also remarked that I had requested that I present my documentation to the ‘Cambourne’ police station. Well, I live in Cornwall where my nearest police station is ‘Camborne’ and not ‘Cambourne’ which is three hundred miles away in Cambridgeshire!

Thirdly, the officer stated that the offence occurred in a village two miles from where it actually did. I recall that my performance displayed on the video indicated the correct location quite clearly, being as it was right beside the place name sign at the start of the village!

Fourthly, and this was, perhaps, the poor constable’s biggest mistake and downfall. He ascribed me an ethnic identity to which I neither belong nor to which I aspire. I am fortunate in having extensive knowledge and experience in the field of ethnicity. Now, it just so happens that the Police, when issuing such FPNs are required to get defendents to self-identity for the purposes of ethnic monitoring. The police man in my case was probably doing what most others do and conveniently forgot this triffling detail.

Now, I always identify myself as ‘Cornish’ (which, using the police‘s own categories would have been ‘W9‘, or ‘White Other‘), yet this officer ticked a box without asking me and stated me as ‘W1‘., or ’White British’.

Interestingly, no UK public authority has so far been able to define what white or black ethnicity is and appear to be confusing them and their other daft codes with physical appearance and nationality. The whole system is in a complete mess really.

Anyway, the long and short of it is that if any UK riders get stopped, check firstly that the plods have not made simple errors of spelling or have got other things wrong. Secondly, if they don’t give you an opportunity to self identify your ethnic background, and state you to be something that you are not, then you have an excellent chance of getting off since the police might well be guilty of violating Article 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights, the Freedom of Expression without interference from a public authority.

This ‘White British’ stuff is nonsense in ethnic terms. Always get the cops to record your ethnicity as ’English’, ’Welsh’, ’Scottish’ or ’Cornish’ whichever is the case. ‘British is NOT our ethnicity, it is our nationality or citizenship.

What did I do to avoid a ticket, you may well ask?

Well, I first wrote to the local Fixed Penalty Office explaining my mitigating circumstances (puncture and new tyres), that mistakes had been made in the officer’s compilation of the evidence and that a violation of my Human Rights had occurred in the process.

I also wrote to the Chief Constable about the ethnicity problem and explained to him the implications for him, if the situation was not rectified (i.e. I would be taking HIM to court).

Six weeks later, I received a letter from the Fixed Penalty Office stating that, although I was clearly visible on video violating a double white line (they ignored my reasons why), the constable had made some basic mistakes and the ticket had been cancelled as a consequence. One week after this, I received correspondence from a Chief Inspector who apologised for the officer’s behaviour. Apparently, this officer had since spent some considerable time learning about ‘ethnicity’ and thanked me for educating him. It was a most grovelling apology. Furthermore, the Inspector assured me that all officers in the Force had been appraised of this incident etc etc.

It is clear that the Chief Constable had no other option than to cancel the ticket. This was the only way that a breach of the European Convention on Human Rights could be avoided.

If you really deserve a ticket then swallow the medicine. If, however, you are like me, then be a stickler for detail. Even though I was on video technically committing a traffic offence, I still managed to extract an apology from the Police. I wish others in this situation the very best of luck and hope that I have given a few helpful pointers that might help them to avoid what is essentially another unfair tax.

PS don’t expect a solicitor to deal with such a case in similar fashion,.


Yehes ha sowena whath dheugh why a'gas henath!
Re: Fixed Penalty Notices - Long Posting
CornishCelt #244303 03/02/2008 8:34 PM
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Well done mate

I don't mind a Motorcycle cop pointing out the error of my ways, or even one in a car who rides.

What I do object to is the lecture you have to endure from some ill informed pr*ck who brags about the number of dead bikers he has had to deal with.

In the last few weeks I've triggered cameras on the M42 on the 'Traffic Management' section where the speed limit varies according to the congestion and traffic is allowed on the shoulder at peak times.

Similarly to your case, it is when the dweeb on the shoulder dosen't want the next exit but has ignored the sign for the last mile and than pulls out at the last second. Instead of braking hard and probably going down in the grease, the safest option, because the traffic in the adjacent lanes are travelling at the same speed, is to accelerate around them.

Unfortunately people are spending more time looking for speed cameras than other vehicles.

Got another 10 days to wait for the NIP.



If you do it today you MIGHT regret it. If you CAN'T do it tomorrow you WILL regret it.
Re: Fixed Penalty Notices - Long Posting
Brummie #244304 03/02/2008 8:45 PM
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Thanks Michael. Good luck with your incident. Hopefully, that NIP will be like Scotch mist.


Yehes ha sowena whath dheugh why a'gas henath!
Re: Fixed Penalty Notices - Long Posting
CornishCelt #244305 03/02/2008 8:46 PM
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Quote:

Apparently, this officer had since spent some considerable time learning about ‘ethnicity’ and thanked me for educating him.




I'm sure he did!

I got pulled over for speeding on an interstate (in a car) while in the US a couple of years ago.
Although I got off with a 'watch your speed' (I think I got off thanks to my posh English accent), I suppose I could have gotten off on a technicality if it had gone any further because he put my name down as surname first then first name second - as it appears on my UK license.


"You can't believe everything you read on the internet" : William Shakespeare
Re: Fixed Penalty Notices - Long Posting
Funkletrumpet #244306 03/02/2008 9:00 PM
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It seems to me that, in the U.K., most people's knees will tremble when stopped by the plods and if they're pulled over then they must be guilty.

The lesson I learnt was to stop the quivering and analyse what these tax collectors were saying and writing. Inevitably, since they are not used to being challenged, traffic police ooze confidence and as a consequence, they often make the simplest of mistakes to the public's advantage.

Above all, even if you are guilty, never admit it. Think first, act second!


Yehes ha sowena whath dheugh why a'gas henath!
Re: Fixed Penalty Notices - Long Posting
Funkletrumpet #244307 03/02/2008 9:05 PM
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Quote:

Quote:

Apparently, this officer had since spent some considerable time learning about ‘ethnicity’ and thanked me for educating him.




I'm sure he did!


I got pulled over for speeding on an interstate (in a car) while in the US a couple of years ago.
Although I got off with a 'watch your speed' (I think I got off thanks to my posh English accent), I suppose I could have gotten off on a technicality if it had gone any further because he put my name down as surname first then first name second - as it appears on my UK license.




Even better, if you'd have been a former intern student of mine from near Hannover, Germany. He had a problem with his rental car, and the rental agency called me (as his supervisor), looking for a chap named "Landkreis Hildesheim" (Literally District of Hildesheim!) Sorry, Landkreis isn't here, but his relatives Hansastadt Hamburg and Haupstadt Berlin are nearby!!!

Re: Fixed Penalty Notices - Long Posting
Gregu710 #244308 03/02/2008 11:17 PM
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Does Herr Hildesheim live in Ausfahrt, on Einbahnstrasse??


SFC, US Army (Ret)
Re: Fixed Penalty Notices - Long Posting
CornishCelt #244309 03/03/2008 2:51 AM
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Congrats on beating the rap, but around these parts, none of that stuff would exonerate you. The magistrates and police work had in hand to ensure the coffers of the local municipalities are kept full. Now, if you're related to any of them it's another story entirely....


More flags More fun!
Re: Fixed Penalty Notices - Long Posting
SFCRex #244310 03/03/2008 6:49 AM
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Quote:

Does Herr Hildesheim live in Ausfahrt, on Einbahnstrasse??






If you do it today you MIGHT regret it. If you CAN'T do it tomorrow you WILL regret it.
Re: Fixed Penalty Notices - Long Posting
CornishCelt #244311 03/03/2008 8:16 AM
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Above all, even if you are guilty, never admit it. Think first, act second!




Couldn't agree with you more.

I won't bore you with details but I had a altercation with a copper over a "firework" incident a few months back. He decided against issuing an FPN for misuse of fireworks but decided to charge me with "use of an explosive device" It soon became apparent that he had no idea what he was talking about.

I just let him carry on filling out his form knowing that it was littered with mistakes. Haven't heard a thing since.

Ought to point out that in my part of the world fireworks are a way of life.

Google "Lewes Bonfire" and all will be explained.


Last edited by Bonfire_Boy; 03/03/2008 8:35 AM.
Re: Fixed Penalty Notices - Long Posting
Bonfire_Boy #244312 03/03/2008 8:39 AM
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I've had a couple of problems here in my area, but it was when I was working evening shift, getting off at 11:00 at night, and coming through the "ignorant" side of town ("Sounds like" Douglasville and Powder Springs, Georgia). I see a Douglasville cop car sitting in the left turn lane with "her" left turn signal on...As I go thru the intersection, my car right in the center, the light turns to yellow, I look in my rear view, and here she comes with her blues on...I pull off to the side, and when she approached my 2 week old car, I told her..."Now you know, that was'nt even close"..She caught my radar detector mounted on my dash board, and clammed up...I did as well, when she put her metal notebook against my new car, I lost it..."You really need to get that off my new car"...from then on, it was fruitless..She handed me my $120 ticket, which I had to pay, 'cause it was her word against mine, and the DA told me that if I fought it, it would end up costing me double...Me and Kimmy were in an elevator with a "sargent" on the force, when we went to pay the fine, I proceeded to blatantly tell him how Douglas county was a bunch of crooks, and how bad it must suck to have to work with a bunch of gangsters...

Re: Fixed Penalty Notices - Long Posting
Gregu710 #244313 03/03/2008 10:33 AM
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Quote:

I think I got off thanks to my posh English accent




Who you kidding. Everytime i get pulled over i try that. Gets me knowwhere.

One time all i got was a "You aint from around here are ya boy" I %&%$#^& hate Alabama, evertime i go there i get pulled over for something.

However, it does pay to have a good friends at the local Police Dept. I have had a couple of tickets that were issued locally taken care of for me by calling up my Captain friend Sadley he's retiring soon so i may have to be a bit more careful.

And of course, stay the H*ll away from Alabama.


Arsenalfan. AKA Mark Able Seller of fine automobiles. Jaguar, Land Rover, Porsche of Chattanooga 423-424-4000
Re: Fixed Penalty Notices - Long Posting
Arsenalfan #244314 03/03/2008 11:08 AM
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Tried this approach?
High Five

Re: Fixed Penalty Notices - Long Posting
Arsenalfan #244315 03/03/2008 12:19 PM
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Quote:

Quote:

I think I got off thanks to my posh English accent




Who you kidding. Everytime i get pulled over i try that. Gets me nowhere.




"You aint from around here are ya boy"

They know you ain't no tourist- you ain't drivin no POS rental car.


Stewart ....... "It's outside your field of expertise." "Poppycock normally is."

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