Bonneville America Forums Forums Technical Forums General Tech Valve Adjustment time - confirmation please

Thanks for your insights, and observations Al.
With the help of my good friend Bucky, I've
started this process.

So far:
Cleaned garage, bike on lift, seat,console,tank removed.
At this point Bucky suggested that I clear the decks, so
to speak, and move wires,relays,and hoses out of the way,
so as to allow clear access to the cam cover. Pulled both
plug wires, cdi, left side coil. Slid the three relays
off of their mounts, wiggled everything around, and tie-
wrapped up and out of the way. This is worth doing!

Note:
We did not disconnect the battery, drain the oil, or remove
the RH side engine cover, as recomended.

With the bike on the lift, Bucky rotated the rear wheel as
I shifted into 5th. After pulling the sparkplugs, you can
spin the motor over by turning the rear wheel by hand. This
allows you to get the cams in the right position for check'n
the gap, and lining the marks up for pinning the gears, and
cam removal.

Sorry if this seems basic to some, but it's my first time
with this type of set-up and I'm trying to share. This was
kind of a last minute thing, and I was unprepared with some
things. I need a micrometer! Work'n on it.

Most gaps were out of spec, but on the loose side. The cam
lobes, and buckets looked great, showing no wear at all at
13,000 miles. You can't over-change the oil!

More to follow,
Uncle Charlie

Sounds like you did your homework and prep, you'll be fine!
I was just up in your neck of the woods on Mon/Tues visiting a new store (well, near Mystic CT). Stopped in a "Libby Triumph" for the McQueen shirt.

I'm not sure what micrometer I need to spec the shims.
Looked around and found many options.

Low end: $16 w/free ship. analog 0-20mm

Utility Micrometer: $20+ship analog 0-25mm
accuracy guaranteed to 0.001"

My fav: Sears Craftsman Micrometer with Wood Case
$99.99 Digital readout reading to .00005in/.001mm

I guess I'll just get the last one, the wood box
has finger joints.

digital is much easier to read also

Frank

My clearances were:
Exhaust- .33 .34 .34 .33
Intake- .23 .22 .19 .15

I ordered the mic from Sears last night, and am trying to
get everything together that I need to continue.

Should I replace the cam cover gasket, o-ring and crush
washers for the oil feed tube, or anything else?
I'm thinking yes. Where could I get them quickly?

Also, does anyone have a pair of the pins for the cam
gears that I could borrow? (so I don't have to fab them)

Thanks,
Uncle Charlie

you can reuse all that stuff, just get a few extra banjo bolts because they break easily

Frank

"Should I replace the cam cover gasket, o-ring and crush
washers for the oil feed tube, or anything else?
I'm thinking yes. Where could I get them quickly?"

No on the cam cover gasket. Yes on the oil crossover tube stuff.

To get them quickly, go to your local Honda dealership and match up the oil crossover stuff.

Thanks moe.
I'd like to have the parts in hand before I continue.
But I realise I will probably need the old ones to compare.
Also need to know what tourqe wrench I should get.
The ones I have don't go low enough.

Hey Erwin,
I've got two torque wrenches, one deflection, and one click,
but they don't read low enough for this job(I think?). After
looking at torque specs, I figure I need one that reads from
0-20 or 0-30nm, and would probably be 1/4" drive.

Any advice, or comments(+or-), will be appreciated.

Thanks,
Uncle Charlie

pm sent

OK, how's that relate to in/lbs. Multiply or divide by 12???
And why is it now lb/ft instead of ft/lbs???
I'm just trying to get a grip on all this,
Uncle Charlie

I borrowed one, but found this Craftsman, 3/8" drive, inch-lb wrench on sale for next time around. It starts at 25 lbs, which is just over 2 ft-lbs.

The camshaft bearing cap bolts are 7.37 ft-lbs so that works out to (x 12) 88.44 inch-lbs
[url=http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00944560000P?vName=Tools&keyword=3%2F8"+drive%2C+inch-lbs+torque+wrench]http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605...s+torque+wrench[/url]

i have a 3/8 craftsman that goes that low and is under 100 bucks

Frank

OK, the Sears digital mic arrived today, and I'll borrow a
torque wrench from Hedge(from trat). I'll put a post in
rides and events for a tech day Sun.April 6.

Tech day went well, see my post in Rides

I've still got a couple of questions:
When selecting the new shims, If the ex is spec'd .25-.30
and the in is .15-.20, should I shoot for the middle .275 ex
and .175 in. Or, would a little tighter say .26 and .16 work
better to give maximum opening of the valves?

Here's what I got so far:
Exhaust

.33 .34 .34 .335
2.757 2.758 2.831 2.804

@.275
2.812 2.823 2.896 2.864
use
2.800 2.825 2.900 2.875

@.26
2.827 2.838 2.911 2.879
use
2.825 2.825 2.900 2.875




Intake


.23 .22 .19 .15
2.656 2.655 2.728 2.711

@.175
2.711 2.700 2.743 2.686
use
2.700 2.700 2.750 2.675

@.16
2.726 2.715 2.758 2.701
use
2.725 2.725 2.750 2.700

(Dang, I made this table in wordpad so it would be nice&neat
but when I pasted it here all the spaces vanished????)

I'm trying to get my shim list together tonight, so I can go
hunting for them tomorrow.

Thanks,
Uncle Charlie

After giving all this some thought and analysis,
I can see that because you have to go to the closest
available shim size, 4 outa 8 are the same, and the
others are only off by .025mm+/-. Think I'll go on the
tighter(bigger of the 2) side on those.

Am I making sense?
Uncle Charlie

use pats shim calculator

Frank

That's where I got these numbers from.
I guess my qusetion still is:
Is tighter better'n loose?

Paaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat???????????

Optimum valve lift / air throughput would be at .15 & .25
Trying to hit that mark dead on without a surface grinder
to fine tune the shims is a bit risky, in that a feeler
gage is a fairly primitive measuring tool and also because
of the 0.025 intervals of the shims.


Too tight (too little gap) may grind the lobes down
or offer interference (if these engines are interference types.)
A reasonable alternative is to shoot for .16 & .26, or, a little loose.

Exhaust

Currently:
.33 -----.34 ---- .34 ---- .335
2.757---2.758 ---2.831----2.804

Based upon the above, consider:
2.825----2.825---2.900---2.875


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Intake

Currently:
.23 -----.22 -----.19 -----.15
2.656 ---2.655 ---2.728 ---2.711

Based upon the above, consider:
2.725----2.700----2.750 ---- leave as is
or change to 2.700

``````````````````````````````````````````

Hope I didn't offend you with the obvious

The only one I disagree with is intake r side outside,
maybe 2.675?
Why did that one get so tight?
My guess is that they get ball park on instalation,
close enough.

Why don't you answer your phone?
Just got off with Pat.
Call me!

Nevermind,
I think I got this thunk out.

Well, I went to see my dealer today, and came away with all
I need to wrap this up(I hope). It took me the better part
of an hour and a half(there was a 3 car wreck in front of
the place). I had my new dig mic with me, and went through
the box of shims with the mechanic. I measured them, and he
wrote the #'s on 'em with a sharpie. I got the 4 I needed,
as well as the copper washers, and o-ring, for the oil tube.
Add in a quart of fork oil, and I got outta there for $23.

Instead of swapping shims, I thought I'd keep the old ones,
and offer 'em up to anyone here that could use 'em. When I'm
done, I'll post in the shim bank.

From there, I went to Sears and got the Micro-Torque 3/8
drive for 80 bucks, and a 3/8 drive T-30 torx bit.

The re-assembly begins tomorrow. It's supposed to be 70df
in the afternoon, and I hope to be takin' a test ride.

I spent $200 on a mic and torque wrench for this job, but
I figure it's money well spent on tools, rather than spent
on labor that I wouldn't feel comfortable about, unless I
checked it over myself. It's my meat in the seat!

Signing off to get back to the manuals,
Uncle Charlie

Holy Cow!
I took so long to compose that post that I hit the time-out.
Managed to go back and cut n paste it! I'm prouda me!

It's a good feeling of satisfaction when you button her up and complete by yourself, good work!

Quote:

---

Holy Cow!
I took so long to compose that post that I hit the time-out.
Managed to go back and cut n paste it! I'm prouda me!

---

Boy, did I screw up big-time!
Put in all the new shims, cams went back in easy, cam caps
back in their respective positions, cam cap bolts finger tight.
Then I started torqueing the bolts and SNAP! One broke!
Son of a gun, I had set my new torque wrench on 20nm not 10!
Stupid, stupid, stupid. And I wasn't even drinking!
Now I have the rear bolt of the #1 cam cap broke off below
the surface. Of course it's the hardest possible one to get
at to drill and ez-out.

Can anyone tell me what size ez-out and drill bit I should use?

Uncle Charlie

Looks like Irwin sells kits

http://tinyurl.com/4pb8fy

Fastenal
330 Fairfield Avenue
Stamford, CT 06902
P: (203)359-4186
F: (203)359-4287

After going to 7 different places today, I think I finally
got the drill bits, and ez-out, that I need to continue.
Found a little diamond tipped bit for the dremel, that I'll
try to use to make a dimple in the center of the broken bolt.
I'm gonna make a "mock-up" in a vise, so I can practice first,
before I start drilling on the head. I'll also cover and
tape over everything, and have a shop-vac set up to try
and capture any shavings(Thanks Bucky).

20 Days 'till Georgia, I gotta get this done!
Uncle Charlie

I'd definitely have someone man the shop vac as you drill. Good luck, keep us posted. At only 20 nm, should be too hard to break that bolt head loose.

Quote:

---

After going to 7 different places today, I think I finally
got the drill bits, and ez-out, that I need to continue.
Found a little diamond tipped bit for the dremel, that I'll
try to use to make a dimple in the center of the broken bolt.
I'm gonna make a "mock-up" in a vise, so I can practice first,
before I start drilling on the head. I'll also cover and
tape over everything, and have a shop-vac set up to try
and capture any shavings(Thanks Bucky).

20 Days 'till Georgia, I gotta get this done!
Uncle Charlie

---

After an hour of extremely tedious drilling with a dremel,
The broken piece spun out easily with an ez-out.
Wheeeeeew! Huge relief!

I decided to replace all the cam-cap bolts, they should be
here on Tuesday, along with 2 shims I needed.

Uncle Charlie

When you get into a pinch and need to drill try using a left hand drill bit instead of the standard right hand ones. Often just drilling the stud out will extract it once the bit bites.

Glad to hear things went well with the tooth..er bolt extraction.

A left hand bit would have probably walked the broken piece right out.
But, I only had room to go at it with a Dremel(no reverse).

After experiencing how hard it was to break the cam-cap bolts loose,
I would use a manual type impact driver(rap with a hammer) next time.
Of course I found my old one from my dirt-bike days after the fact.

Uncle Charlie