 Valve Adjustment time - confirmation please
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Check Pants
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OP
Check Pants
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Folks:
I last checked the shim valve clearanced back in '05 when the bike had 14k on it. Now at 25k, I'm checking again. The last time I had the help of a bike tech, daughters boyfriend who is no longer around (good thing, mostly..). So, I'm solo this time. I've gathered the necessary parts (crush washer, o-rings, caliper, feeler gauge, torque wrench, etc.). I have Pat's shim calculator at the ready.
Here is what I measured this afternoon and comments.
Exhaust
Left: 0.26 (0.20 + 0.06) = OK
Right: 0.29 = OK
Intake
Left: 0.20 = OK? or too close to the limit?
Right: 0.11 = REPLACE
I'm on track, right?
If so, I'll pull the cams and use the shim calculator, than again get confirmation (I'm an idiot concerning this task..)
I did confirm that two, 5/32" pin punches fit nicely into the cam gears to lock in place. I cut them down near the handle which is tapered nicely and fits snug in both gears.
Thanks for the confirmation advice!
IDIOT UPDATE: Yeah, I have to go back and do the inner valve clearance checks.....
Last edited by ssjones; 02/10/2008 8:08 PM.
Al
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Re: Valve Adjustment time - confirmation please
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OK, that was just a trial run. I went back doing ALL the valves and rechecked my earlier measurements:
Front/Exhaust:
LEFT RIGHT
Outer / Innner Inner / Outer
0.26 / 0.27 0.27 / 0.28
All Exhaust are within spec
Rear/Intake:
LEFT / RIGHT
Outer / Inner Inner / Outer
0.21 / 0.21 0.12 / 0.11
All the Intake shims need to be changed.
Think I'm ready to pull the intake cam and measure the existing shims. Anything I'm missing?
Last edited by ssjones; 02/10/2008 11:52 PM.
Al
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Re: Valve Adjustment time - confirmation please
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Adjunct
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Adjunct
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I'm assuming that your decimal place '.' is in the wrong spot in your post? other wise a few are way too tight.
Your correct that all intake shims need to be changed, but I'd also change the exhaust outer shim that you measured at 0.26mm. Make it 0.28mm because it is much better to be loose than tight. If the clearance is too tight you can cause valve seat damage.
Also when you remove cams remember to put a rag in the cam chain hole, you will kick yourself if you drop something down there!
TBA, Stainless extractors / drag pipes, 65mm over forward controls, Thruxton needles, 904cc, head ported, lowered 1-inch, Console removed, relocated battery box, Australia.
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Re: Valve Adjustment time - confirmation please
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Check Pants
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OP
Check Pants
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Thanks, fixed those decimal points! I'm going out now to put a rag in that hole a well. I see what you are saying about the far left exhaust shim. I'll pull the cams tomorrow evening and measure the shims, than do the calculations. Quote:
I'm assuming that your decimal place '.' is in the wrong spot in your post? other wise a few are way too tight.
Your correct that all intake shims need to be changed, but I'd also change the exhaust outer shim that you measured at 0.26mm. Make it 0.28mm because it is much better to be loose than tight. If the clearance is too tight you can cause valve seat damage.
Also when you remove cams remember to put a rag in the cam chain hole, you will kick yourself if you drop something down there!
Al
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 Re: Valve Adjustment time - confirmation please
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Adjunct
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Adjunct
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Thats ok, also now that your changing 5x shims, it is very likely that you will be able to swap a few shims from one valve to another to save yourself some dollars! Maybe post your shim thickness when you measure them if you need someone to work it out for you! 
TBA, Stainless extractors / drag pipes, 65mm over forward controls, Thruxton needles, 904cc, head ported, lowered 1-inch, Console removed, relocated battery box, Australia.
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Re: Valve Adjustment time - confirmation please
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Check Pants
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OP
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Oh yeah, I'll definitely post what I "think" is needed. Don't want to goof this up! I'll be in Northern VA tomorrow. Toofless tipped me that a bike dealer in Falls Church has a shim-swap, bring one & take one. Hopefully between my old shims, reusing these and their bins I'll have what is needed. Quote:
Thats ok, also now that your changing 5x shims, it is very likely that you will be able to swap a few shims from one valve to another to save yourself some dollars!
Maybe post your shim thickness when you measure them if you need someone to work it out for you!
Al
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Re: Valve Adjustment time - confirmation please
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Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
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Al, be sure you use a good micrometer and NOT a caliper. The micrometer measures the center of the shims and a caliper can give false readings due to the way they measure the entire surface and not just the center where the valves contact them. The edges are slightly thicker and can really mess you up with measurements using calipers..
A word to the wise is not necessary. It is the stupid ones who need the advice.
Pat
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Re: Valve Adjustment time - confirmation please
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Make sure bike is stone cold before making any measurements.
Last edited by Fishercat; 02/11/2008 11:04 AM.
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Re: Valve Adjustment time - confirmation please
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Check Pants
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Check Pants
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Thanks Pat. I'm going to take them to my buddy's machine shop for measurement, I do only have a micrometer. And sadly with my broken foot, the bike was/is icy cold.. Quote:
Al, be sure you use a good micrometer and NOT a caliper. The micrometer measures the center of the shims and a caliper can give false readings due to the way they measure the entire surface and not just the center where the valves contact them. The edges are slightly thicker and can really mess you up with measurements using calipers..
Al
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Re: Valve Adjustment time - confirmation please
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Check Pants
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OP
Check Pants
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OK. Cams are out and everything is bagged and labeled. (whew, that is nerve wracking..)
Only one of my shims has any visible markings (the intake, far right).
The clearance was 0.11
Current Shim is 2.90
Pat's calculator says it should be replaced with a 2.835 shim. Since it is currently too tight, I should drop to a 2.80 shim, right?
I'll have my buddy mic all five shims tomorrow. For my calculations on the exhaust, far left which was .26, you are suggesting I use .28 as my measurement to allow for middle of the road fit, right?
Al
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Re: Valve Adjustment time - confirmation please
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"Lighten up, Francis."
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"Lighten up, Francis."
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Be SUPER CAREFUL about which cam is which. I got confused between bench and bike and accidentally swapped them. Bent all four valves on the left cylinder just tightening down the head. They are very fragile. The factory manual shows a drawing of the groove cast into the intake camshaft.
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Re: Valve Adjustment time - confirmation please
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Check Pants
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OP
Check Pants
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Labeled zip-loc bags for the cams and each of the cam caps! Quote:
Be SUPER CAREFUL about which cam is which. I got confused between bench and bike and accidentally swapped them. Bent all four valves on the left cylinder just tightening down the head. They are very fragile. The factory manual shows a drawing of the groove cast into the intake camshaft.
Al
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Re: Valve Adjustment time - confirmation please
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Joined: Jan 2005
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"Lighten up, Francis."
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"Lighten up, Francis."
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Dude, I know, I'm just sayin'...
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Re: Valve Adjustment time - confirmation please
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Check Pants
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OP
Check Pants
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OK, I had my existing shims mic'd by my buddy at his shop with a calibrated micrometer. He only had inches, but Pat's handy shim program neatly converted for me! Here's what I found. If someone could offer rounding suggestions, that will keep me from screwing this up!
The one exhaust valve (was at .26), I moved to .28
Existing shim: .1112 = 2.8244 mm
Calculator says to use = 2.829
Intake shims from LEFT to RIGHT:
Existing shim: .1090 = 2.7686
Calculator says to use = 2.8036
Existing shim: .1113 = 2.827
Calculator says to use = 2.862
Existing shim: .1143 = 2.903
Calculator says to use = 2.843
Existing shim: .1143 = 2.903 (stamped 2.90)
Calculator says to use = 2.838
Thanks guys! I appreciate someone checking my math.
Al
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Re: Valve Adjustment time - confirmation please
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Check Pants
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Check Pants
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I'm getting confused on which shims to buy or which I can reuse.
Here's what I think is needed:
Exhaust shim - believe I need a 2.825 but is that any different than the 2.8244 that is already in place?
Intake needs from Left to Right:
#1 - 2.80 (that seems cut & dry)
#2 - 2.825 but is that any different from the existing one measured 2.862?
#3 - 2.825
#4 - 2.825
Does that make sense?
Not being able to read the ID markings on the shim and the need to convert them to metric is making me bonkers.
Al
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Re: Valve Adjustment time - confirmation please
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Adjunct
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Adjunct
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Where any out of tolerance enough to render changing?
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Re: Valve Adjustment time - confirmation please
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Check Pants
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Quote:
Where any out of tolerance enough to render changing?
Ha! That is the mystery to me.
I think the exhaust shim is pretty darn close and with what is available, not sure I have anything to gain.
The #2 Intake shim is also pretty close.
Hoping to hear confirmation from someone more knowledgable than I. I emailed Dinqua earlier. I'm only near this VA dealer who does shim swaps until early afternoon tomorrow and will have limited internet access after the morning.
If anyone has the expertise to confirm what I need - that would be greatly appreciated!
Al
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Re: Valve Adjustment time - confirmation please
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Check Pants
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Check Pants
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OK, think I wrapped my head around this math:
I neeed to get or swap from existing shims:
Exhaust - BUY - 2.85 for a 0.285 gap
Intake Left to Right:
#1 Buy - 2.80 for a .1786 gap
#2 Buy - 2.85 for a .187 gap
#3 Buy - 2.85 for a .173 gap
#4 Re-use 2.824 shim from Exhaust for a .188 gap
Let me know if this doesn't sound correct!
Al
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Re: Valve Adjustment time - confirmation please
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Adjunct
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Adjunct
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Quote:
OK, think I wrapped my head around this math:
I neeed to get or swap from existing shims:
Exhaust - BUY - 2.85 for a 0.285 gap
Intake Left to Right:
#1 Buy - 2.80 for a .1786 gap
#2 Buy - 2.85 for a .187 gap
#3 Buy - 2.85 for a .173 gap
#4 Re-use 2.824 shim from Exhaust for a .188 gap
Let me know if this doesn't sound correct!
Looks like you worked it out good, but I'd buy a 2.80 for the exhaust to measure middle of the road (0.28). Hope it all measures up ok when you get it back together!
TBA, Stainless extractors / drag pipes, 65mm over forward controls, Thruxton needles, 904cc, head ported, lowered 1-inch, Console removed, relocated battery box, Australia.
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Re: Valve Adjustment time - confirmation please
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Check Pants
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Check Pants
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Hey, thanks. I see what you are saying. The 2.80 shim would increase the gap by .0244 to .2844 (more middle of the road) The 2.85 shim would increase the gap by .0256 to .2856. Maybe I DO get math, thanks for sticking with me on this. I'm glad this only has to be done every three years.... Now, hopefully the shop has what I need and the clearances check out when installed. Quote:
Quote:
OK, think I wrapped my head around this math:
I neeed to get or swap from existing shims:
Exhaust - BUY - 2.85 for a 0.285 gap
Intake Left to Right:
#1 Buy - 2.80 for a .1786 gap
#2 Buy - 2.85 for a .187 gap
#3 Buy - 2.85 for a .173 gap
#4 Re-use 2.824 shim from Exhaust for a .188 gap
Let me know if this doesn't sound correct!
Looks like you worked it out good, but I'd buy a 2.80 for the exhaust to measure middle of the road (0.28). Hope it all measures up ok when you get it back together!
Last edited by ssjones; 02/13/2008 1:45 PM.
Al
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Re: Valve Adjustment time - confirmation please
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Check Pants
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Check Pants
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Well, the "shim swap" dealer in DC looked at me like I was crazy and didn't have the correct sizes in stock. Capital Area Triumph in PA did and I'll pick them up tomorrow on a trip. Hopefully reinstall/measure Fri or Saturday.
I need to dig up the two old shims from last time around, but can't remember where I put them!
Al
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Re: Valve Adjustment time - confirmation please
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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just use the dinqulator and be done with it
Frank
(Former)05 BA tbike pipes, ai removed, Freak, mikuni hsr 42's, 904, ported/polished head, 1mm oversized valves
NOW-2010 silver and black tbird
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Re: Valve Adjustment time - confirmation please
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Check Pants
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Check Pants
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Quote:
just use the dinqulator and be done with it
Frank
Well, I've never done something like this before so it was a little more challenging than just using Pat's awesome calculator. Since I only had SAE measurements, I had to convert them (using the shimcalculator was easy) but than mvoe to Triumph increments. Than, take the measurement from the shimcalculator and convert that into a Triumph shim. NOW I got it, but it took a while to sink in. Fortunately, I've been communicating with Pat and only after five emails from him I get it! I WILL stick to managing restaurants and people from now on!
Al
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Re: Valve Adjustment time - confirmation please
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Took me a while to wrap my little brain around it all too -- working with the negative space and positive space measurements. (Or is the other way around? ;-))
I had both shoes and socks off in order to count on my fingers & toes at the Yamaha parts counter, just trying to cipher out the shim selections. Lucky for me they were patient and understanding, and left me the whole box of shims to pick from. The other issue I had was the feeler gage - one blade is labeled 6, and another is labeled 9. Kinda hard to tell which is which on the fly when shuffling through a slew of 'em. I finally got the sharpie out and labeled them "six" & "nine"
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Re: Valve Adjustment time - confirmation please
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Check Pants
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Check Pants
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Bucky, that describes my thought process very closely!
Pat asked me to put my measurements on a spreadsheet, I found this helpful with the gaps but still mix loose/tight!
But, I don't know how to upload an Excel sheet to the web or my photo storage.
Al
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Re: Valve Adjustment time - confirmation please
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Check Pants
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Well all done. No drama on tbe reinstall and the bike was purring. It was quieter than before, so guess my valves were out of spec enough to be noisy.
For next time, I have to get a good inch-pound torque wrench (borrowed for the 2nd time).
I also checked my ignition pick-up gap, which was fine. That was more of PITA than the valve job! I have to change the oil tomorrow. I thought it would be good for the RTV on the grommets to seal before warming up the bike to change the oil (should have changed it when it was hot...).
Thanks for all the assistance!
Last edited by ssjones; 02/16/2008 6:42 PM.
Al
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Re: Valve Adjustment time - confirmation please
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Check Pants
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Check Pants
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Forgot to mention I had one little problem during the reinstallation of the cams - the wife! I had prepared the top of the cam journals with clean motor oil and was trying to be as clean as possible when the wife comes in the garage and starts sweeping! I yelled "drop the broom" which wasn't real well received. I apologized later and explaining the need for no dust!
Al
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Re: Valve Adjustment time - confirmation please
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Joined: Apr 2007
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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That was almost life threatening!!!!!!! Not saying whos though. 
12 Rocket Roadster
03 Bonneville America
69 BSA Firebird Scrambler
73 Yamaha TX 750
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Re: Valve Adjustment time - confirmation please
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Check Pants
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Check Pants
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I'm now the proud owner of a inch-lb Craftsman torque wrench. Sears has them on sale for $69 and you get $10 off with the Craftsman Club card.
Al
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Re: Valve Adjustment time - confirmation please
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Joined: Aug 2005
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Aug 2005
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I have the Craftsman flex style in two sizes. They work fine and cost a lot less. For as little as I need torque wrenches, I figured that's all I needed.
Bob
2005 America, 904cc - sold. 2014 Trophy SE.
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Re: Valve Adjustment time - confirmation please
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Complete Newb
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Complete Newb
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Greetings!
Thanks for hacking a trail thru the jungle for us. I will be doing the same chore in a few weeks. My '03 America started 'clicking' quite a bit by Oct. of last year.
That said, where is a good source for these shims.
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Re: Valve Adjustment time - confirmation please
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Joined: Feb 2007
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
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My bike sounds fine and runs fine but I am over 15,000 and haven't done my 12,000 mile valve adjustment yet. I need to get to it before the warm weather hits.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Valve Adjustment time - confirmation please
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Check Pants
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OP
Check Pants
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Shims at the dealer are a hit & miss affaird. Some stock, others have to order, they shouldn't be more than $8/each in any case.
Dog - the PA dealer where I bougth shims said at the first change, you'll typically see a lot of swaps necessary. Same for the 2nd check, but after that they don't change much. I had two out on the 15k than five more at 25k.
Al
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Re: Valve Adjustment time - confirmation please
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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A friend of mine had me check his valves.
36k miles and he had never had it checked.
All were withing spec, one was close but not a problem.
Pete
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Adjunct
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Adjunct
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36k miles! Nice. I have been checking my valves every 4,000 miles and they are still in spec at 20,000 miles. She runs great so I don't mess with her.
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Complete Newb
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Complete Newb
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Ok...here we go, friends. This looks like a good source for shims on this project- plus a few more.....evidently. http://www.bikebandit.com/houseofmotorcycles/triumph-motorcycle-america/o/m6886bikebandit.com cheers well...the link didn't transfer 'precisely' but....you can find the shims/tappets by chooseing engine/exhaust - then cylinder head and valve schematic.
Last edited by rooter; 03/06/2008 1:34 AM.
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Re: Valve Adjustment time - confirmation please
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"Lighten up, Francis."
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"Lighten up, Francis."
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825 |
I've bought a lot of stuff from BikeBandit and they take forever to ship. If it's wintertime and you're snowed in, fine. But the other three seasons of the year I'd rather go to the Yamaha dealership or get shims from the members here (I've done both).
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Re: Valve Adjustment time - confirmation please
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Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
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guys, yamaha shims also work in our bikes.
So do Toyota shims actually, I have about 400 of them in my garage my friend gave me. They were taking up space at his Toyota shop. When it gets warmer, I'll mic them all up and probably make them available since I will never use them all myself.
A word to the wise is not necessary. It is the stupid ones who need the advice.
Pat
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Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
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When at a yamahaha dealer and they ask what sickle the shims are for, do yourself a favor and say they are for a V-Max. Otherwise they look at you and say "Can't help you". Have mic in hand too. Bring your old shims as sometimes their brain farts subside long enough to simply exchange them out for free.
Blowing gravel off rural roads
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Re: Valve Adjustment time - confirmation please
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Check Pants
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OP
Check Pants
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Guys & Gals: Here's a picture of the cam gear tools I made and described earlier. A buddy just drilled two holes in them. They are made from two, 5/32" pin punch tools. Sears had a loose box of them on sale last year, for $1/each. I just cut them to fit between into the cam gear and clear the caps. I just used a cut-off disc on my die grinder. Once I started using them, and the the cams were still in the head and not under tension, I was very concerned they'd slip out and fall into the motor. This would cause a world of hurt so I had to be extra careful until the cams were pulled to ensure this didn't happen. Once the cams were out, the two gears locked onto the pins and falling out was not a concern. Of course on the reinstall, the same thing could happen and care was needed. I thought if there was a hole drilled in each one, I could tether them together with wire which would make falling into the motor far less likely. Drilling two holes into them was an exercise in futility with my poor hand tools. I gave them to a friend who does machine work and he drilled them with his stuff (carbide tipped bit). If you have the means to drill hole in them, they make a cheap tool. I suppose a metric pin punch near that size might work just as well. They are 1.5" long. 
Last edited by ssjones; 03/08/2008 4:46 PM.
Al
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