 Re: Who is able to be President in the U.S.
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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It is a great debate, isn't it?
Yeah...Don't get your hopes up, Ed!
This kind'a stuff is always going to interest few, and unfortunately even fewer than the 50% of the general population who don't even bother to raise off their lazy posteriors and help steer the course of this great country by casting a ballot!
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: Who is able to be President in the U.S.
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Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
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The only parallel I can think of is pregnant Chinese women who "visit" Canada to have their baby, thus granting the child Canadian citizenship and allowing her to stay as the mother of the newly minted Canadian citizen. I suppose technically the child must have dual citizenship, I just never thought about it that way before.
Not a political thread, not a political thread. Don't get me started on this. 
Then I guess I better not mention Mexican women who do the same thing here, except illegally... 
Glad you said it before me, less chance it will be deleted.
Yep! But what I wanna know is how the heck are they ever gonna fit "ELECT JUAN JOSE BATISTA MARTINEZ GONZALES LOPEZ DEL LA CRUZ FOR PRESIDENT" all on ONE bumper sticker for the 2020 election??? 
(answer me THAT???!!!)
Simple, "I LIKE JUAN"...
Yeah, doesn't really have the same ring as "I LIKE IKE" does it?
If he wins, and runs for re-election it could be "Juan more time".
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Who is able to be President in the U.S.
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: Who is able to be President in the U.S.
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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I have to say it's good to see an honest debate here being handled so well (by all) keep it above the belt gang...great read.
THE VOICE OF REASON
per: Stewart
AF&AM/Shriner/Scoutmaster
130/45 TBS 2shim SS Uni 18/42
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Re: Who is able to be President in the U.S.
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
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Dwight, that is correct. Congress alone can declare war. The President directs war in the form of protecting our country from attack in general terms. Preemptive and intervention were seriously warned against by Jefferson and Hamilton. Hmm, can't figure why.  Korea was the beginning of the end for that construction. 55,000 dead in Korea and still there 60 years later, 58,000 dead in Viet Nam, who knows how many in the middle east and Senator McCain says we may be there 100 years. Agreement is not needed. The common element of this conversation is that it is a guiding document that has made this a great country. It seems we lose our way when we drift too far from the guiding principles of it.
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
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Re: Who is able to be President in the U.S.
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Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
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I know full well that when U.S. parents have a baby that baby is a citizen. That citizen must be born on U.S. soil though.
Ron,
Nowhere in Article II, section 1, clause 5; does the Constitution mention U.S. soil.
There are two ways considered for natural born citizenship (birthright):
Jus Soli (of the soil), meaning born on U.S. soil.
Jus Sanguinis (of the blood), meaning born of U.S. citizens, natural or naturalized.
Most of us are both. But both are not required. (And there is some debate about the application of the Jus Soli requirement).
Maybe a lawyer will weigh in here.
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Who is able to be President in the U.S.
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Joined: Mar 2006
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Here's a question for you two intelligent gentlemen....
Why does it seem that most so-called "Strict Constitutionists" seem to have no problem at all with the "The Gulf Of Tonkin Resolution" or "The War Powers Act"?
(well, there I go thinkin' again!...sorry gentleman, but I think this question may have just shut down your very interesting conversation...that is if I know anything about how it works around here!!!)
Well Dwight I suggest you ask hillary or barack hussein obama ..both noted experts on constitutionality. I am sure they would provide you an answer. And if they do not ...then John McCain can CERTAINLY offer an answer.
I expect John would be proud to address that there funny old gulf of tonkin resolution thingy.
"Proud to be an Infidel" ... "100% pure American Jingoist"
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Re: Who is able to be President in the U.S.
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Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
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Agreement is not needed. The common element of this conversation is that it is a guiding document that has made this a great country. It seems we lose our way when we drift too far from the guiding principles of it.
Right you are Ron.
Like any guiding document though, it has areas that aren't necessarily clear.
And there will always be those looking for loopholes to try to justify the cause du jour, or their own agendas.
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Who is able to be President in the U.S.
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
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Bill, its what "natural born" meant. It was clarified by Jefferson in his letters and later naturalization was addressed in the beyond seas clarification.
I can see the gray in it because we are so large now. With 13 states it was a little easier to think folks were staying a bit closer to home with horses instead of jets.
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
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Re: Who is able to be President in the U.S.
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Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
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I can see the gray in it because we are so large now. With 13 states it was a little easier to think folks were staying a bit closer to home with horses instead of jets.
However, with the more politically active citizens (diplomats etc.) and the wealthy who could travel to Europe for business or family, it was perhaps more likely (than today) that they could bear a child overseas due to the logistics involved.
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Who is able to be President in the U.S.
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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Agreement is not needed. The common element of this conversation is that it is a guiding document that has made this a great country. It seems we lose our way when we drift too far from the guiding principles of it.
Right you are Ron.
Like any guiding document though, it has areas that aren't necessarily clear.
And there will always be those looking for loopholes to try to justify the cause du jour, or their own agendas.
Right on the money Bill, often time much too loosely interpreted.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Who is able to be President in the U.S.
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
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And yet he voted against the constructionist language of the 12th Amendment. Clearly he is influenced by his desires as well as his knowledge and decided to usurp not on the 12th but the 10th as well. Spilt milk now but it shows the true color of his cloth.
The argument concerning the 12th amendment was bogus and was part of a desperate attempt to win at any cost. If it was valid then all the congressmen and senators are citizens of DC or Virginia. As for the 10th amendment, it did not come into play as it is meant only to restrict federal powers to those granted to it by the rest of the constitution. Clearly, interpreting the federal constitution in a federal election is a federal responsibility.
We all like to think of ourselves as rugged individualists. But when push comes to shove most of us are sheep who do what we are told. Worst of all, a lot of us become unpaid agents of whoever is controlling the agenda by enforcing the current dogma on the few rugged individualists who actually exist.
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Re: Who is able to be President in the U.S.
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Adjunct
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Adjunct
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Any major document such as the Constitution should be read and interpreted literally first, taken and understood in historical context, and then applied to current times. If one fails to take the literal interpretation path, then interpretation is left to the imagination of the reader. What was absolute then becomes relative. In other words, one persons truth is not necessarily true for another but relative to the current situation. The constitution is what it is. Don't add to it, don't take away from it and it will work for all people. In reality, with respect to the original question, the current practice is that the current candidate's qualifications to run for office have been met and are unopposed. Otherwise, it may come up after the election in the fall if the wrong person wins enough electoral votes to become president. Then we may get to see what the Supreme Court has to say about "natural born citizens". Or has that already been tested? If so, what was the result? Could it be a candidate who was born somewhere besides the continental USA? Go figure.
Its more fun to be ridin'! I'm still ridin
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Re: Who is able to be President in the U.S.
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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Well, I personally think this presidential qualification thing should be changed, so our "illustrious" Governator can be President!!! ('cuz THEN he'd be in D.C. most of the time, I wouldn't have to listen to him mis-pronounce the name of my state as "Cal-EE-fornia" ANYMORE!!!!)  
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: Who is able to be President in the U.S.
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Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
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The argument concerning the 12th amendment was bogus and was part of a desperate attempt to win at any cost. If it was valid then all the congressmen and senators are citizens of DC or Virginia. As for the 10th amendment, it did not come into play as it is meant only to restrict federal powers to those granted to it by the rest of the constitution. Clearly, interpreting the federal constitution in a federal election is a federal responsibility.
That's not the point, the point is the language clearly states "inhabitant" not citizen and no "strict constructionist" could construe that to mean "legal resident". The mantra of strict constructionism is literal meaning so take it for what it's worth.
As for the 10th, the states job is to certify and deliver the vote tally. Ending the recount took away that right and violated the 10th. Again, there's no way a literal interpretation of the articles and amendments could allow this; in effect the strict constructionists had to become "liberals" to allow the liberal interpretations that were applied.
Kinda makes you mad doesn't it? 
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
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Re: Who is able to be President in the U.S.
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
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I am very impressed with the thinking in this thread. Clearly we have members here that have well above room temp. IQs.  Maybe if more folks took the time to argue a bit about this type of thing we would not drift away from common sense guidelines so often. I believe John McCain can run for President. As stated 3 others have already done it. I just thought it would be fun to talk about something other than how many teeth on the sprocket will make me do light speed. We also showed that you can vary in opinion without yelling at one another. 
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
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Re: Who is able to be President in the U.S.
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Big Bore
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Big Bore
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that is if I know anything about how it works around here!!!)
To be honest, you really don't have a clue and I am not being crass.
There is a core group here that likes to push buttons and force a reaction so they can cry foul. Most of the time we tell them in a PM or here to go get a juice box and a nap. Sometimes we tell them to pound sand. Regardless, we don't have the luxury of choosing which threads to cavort in, we have to read them all to make sure the playground is being kept clean. If we all adhere to the AUP (and its extensions), there are no problems.
btw, your ceaseless political innuendo is only moderately annoying and luckily, we hold the keys to the delete and smite buttons.
"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity" - Robert Heinlein
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Re: Who is able to be President in the U.S.
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"Lighten up, Francis."
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"Lighten up, Francis."
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Yeah, but then Ron had to name one of the political candidates (without so much as a context that relates him back to the topic that has been discussed in an oh-so civilized manner) and ruin it for everybody.  
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Re: Who is able to be President in the U.S.
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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Well John, I hate to "push buttons" here, but I THINK Ron's pretty much a piker in that regard, compared to a certain Arizonan who mentioned THREE of those "political candidates" in HIS input above! 
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: Who is able to be President in the U.S.
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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I think the governator may make a good pres but I don't think the laws should be changed to allow it. That would open the door to possible people with the wrong agendas.Not that we don't have that already in certain unnamed female cases.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Who is able to be President in the U.S.
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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Oooh...ya better watch it, Ian. You's a steppin' on shaky ground there, amigo! (what?!..are you planning on movin' to Tucson or somethin'???)
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: Who is able to be President in the U.S.
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
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As for the 10th, the states job is to certify and deliver the vote tally. Ending the recount took away that right and violated the 10th. Again, there's no way a literal interpretation of the articles and amendments could allow this; in effect the strict constructionists had to become "liberals" to allow the liberal interpretations that were applied.
If we're moving over to the Florida fiasco we need to remember that the Florida Supreme Court was clearly changing the rules on an almost daily basis to get the results they wanted. I love hearing some partisans complaining about how the courts have no business getting involved in elections, unless it’s the Florida Supreme Court. The State of Florida did indeed certify the election once the USSC told the FSC to quit changing the rules ex post facto. There is also the issue of the equal protection clause, the due process clause and the rule of law. All of which were being violated by the plaintiffs and the Florida Supreme Court in that election.
We all like to think of ourselves as rugged individualists. But when push comes to shove most of us are sheep who do what we are told. Worst of all, a lot of us become unpaid agents of whoever is controlling the agenda by enforcing the current dogma on the few rugged individualists who actually exist.
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Re: Who is able to be President in the U.S.
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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Yep! Believe it or not, I agree wit' cha, Larry! And seein' as how you seem to be a fellow "Strict Constitutionist" just like ME, how DO you feel about maybe going back to how the Framers decided we should all go to war, anyway??? (ya know, it seems once we'all got away from that there philosophy, we done sometimes have gotten ourselves in a whole lot a mess, ya know???!!!) (GEEZ, but don't I just LOVE holdin' that there mirror up to people, huh?!...it's one of my most "endearing traits", ain't it?!)
Last edited by Dwight; 02/08/2008 3:55 PM.
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Re: Who is able to be President in the U.S.
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
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If we are picking teams construction vs. non-construction, I pick Aaron Burr. 
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
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Re: Who is able to be President in the U.S.
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Well John, I hate to "push buttons" here, but I THINK Ron's pretty much a piker in that regard, compared to a certain Arizonan who mentioned THREE of those "political candidates" in HIS input above!
Ron Pa............ L
"Proud to be an Infidel" ... "100% pure American Jingoist"
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Re: Who is able to be President in the U.S.
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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I've always fancied myself as a history buff, that is until I read the rest of this thread. I'm obviously way too stoopid to add anything remotely intelligent here. Off now to go and kill some more brain cells.
Last edited by KaiserSoze; 02/08/2008 11:31 PM.
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Re: Who is able to be President in the U.S.
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Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
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If we are picking teams construction vs. non-construction, I pick Aaron Burr.
One dead politician.
One political career ended.
Maybe the practice should be reinstated. 
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Who is able to be President in the U.S.
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
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Dwight,
I’d like to see us actually follow the constitution, especially the 10th amendment. You know, the one that says:
“The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.â€
The Constitution gives no authorization for the federal government to control education, to run welfare programs, control the healthcare system, own land not needed for military purposes or to carry out its delegated powers, set speed limits, or do about 90% of what the federal government does. Other than the military, the State Department and the Post Office, the vast majority of the federal government is illegal under a reasonably strict reading of the constitution. Until Woodrow Wilson’s presidency that is how almost all presidents, and the courts, interpreted the constitution.
We all like to think of ourselves as rugged individualists. But when push comes to shove most of us are sheep who do what we are told. Worst of all, a lot of us become unpaid agents of whoever is controlling the agenda by enforcing the current dogma on the few rugged individualists who actually exist.
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Re: Who is able to be President in the U.S.
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Larry, easy way to kill off the overbloated Federal Government (and reduce it to the level it needs to be)is to kill the goose that lays the golden eggs, i.e. the Infernal Revenue Service. NO tax revenue, no pork projects, no massive federal programs, nada. Let them raise just enough money through a sales tax for the 3 branches and the military, and nothing else, unless it passes a public referendum. Let me be the first in line to start dismantling the IRS Headquarters brick by brick!(just cause I'm a giving kind of guy!)
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Re: Who is able to be President in the U.S.
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
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First we need to rescind the 16th amendment so the SOB’s have no choice. A great benefit of going to a sales tax for federal revenue is that it would shift the power in government back from the feds to the states. The states collect sales tax already and should continue to do so if it becomes the source of the federal governments revenue. Next time Congress decides to bully the states they could simply refuse to send it in. Federal mandates would be a lot tougher to enforce if the states held the purse strings.
The federal government was originally created by the states to do those things best done by all the states rather than each one individually. The founders would be horrified to see the leviathan the federal government has become.
I think we should also rescind the 17th amendment and do away with the direct election of US Senators. If we went back to having the state legislatures choose them I think it would make them much more accountable to the states and we’d get a better quality of senators. It would certainly be cheaper.
We all like to think of ourselves as rugged individualists. But when push comes to shove most of us are sheep who do what we are told. Worst of all, a lot of us become unpaid agents of whoever is controlling the agenda by enforcing the current dogma on the few rugged individualists who actually exist.
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Re: Who is able to be President in the U.S.
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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let them collect social security like the rest of us instead of drawing that gigantic salary for the rest of their lives. Cut said salary in half while we are at it and bring their income to a more reasonable level. Both of those create a huge tax break for the middle class if the funds are not squandered elsewhere.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Who is able to be President in the U.S.
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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YEAH! Now you're talkin', Ian!  AND, don't forget to cancel their health benefits TOO, so they'd know how it feels to be one of us middle class peons TOO! That'll show 'em. Though I have the feeling they'd just take more money from the pharmaceutical industry(among others), "under the table" of course, to make up for it and then use some of THAT to pay for their health care, and to also of course pay for more airtime for their "commercials" for their re-election on TV come very election. (eeh...I'm just probably being my typically cynical ol' self there, huh?!...and nobody likes a cynic, ya know)
Last edited by Dwight; 02/09/2008 4:13 PM.
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: Who is able to be President in the U.S.
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
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Quote:
Though I have the feeling they'd just take more money from the pharmaceutical industry(among others), "under the table" of course, to make up for it and then use some of THAT to pay for their health care, and to also of course pay for more airtime for their "commercials" for their re-election on TV come very election.
There is a very good reason the pharmaceutical companies have so many lobbyists, self preservation. Whenever government decides it needs to regulate an industry or goes after a company that industry or company needs to defend itself. A perfect case in point is Microsoft. They used to have just one lobbyist in Washington DC. Then in the 1990’s the justice department decided to destroy it. Now Microsoft has an army of lobbyists just to forestall the next governmental attack upon it. Wal-Mart has the same story, they now have lots of lobbyists but used to have very few. Oil, insurance, banking, investment, manufacturing, and many other industries all have lots of lobbyists for the simple reason that big government, and those that love big government, want to tax and regulate all those industries.
Of healthcare sectors only one has almost no lobbyists, the Veterinarians. Why? Because the government pretty much leaves them alone. If the government starts messing with them the same way they do MD’s you can be sure they will soon have an army of lobbyists too, and we will pay for them in out vet bills as we do for the medical professions in our healthcare costs.
The only way to reduce the power of lobbyists is to reduce the power and scope of government.
We all like to think of ourselves as rugged individualists. But when push comes to shove most of us are sheep who do what we are told. Worst of all, a lot of us become unpaid agents of whoever is controlling the agenda by enforcing the current dogma on the few rugged individualists who actually exist.
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Re: Who is able to be President in the U.S.
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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OR...the AVERAGE JOE need his OWN lobbyists so he can help direct HIS employee!(and that's HIS elected officials...President INCLUDED!)
Last edited by Dwight; 02/09/2008 11:38 PM.
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: Who is able to be President in the U.S.
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
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Sorry Larry, but you see, I never served in the military, and so all this "must follow orders" and "must go through chain-of-command" BS was NEVER drummed in to me...THANK GOD!(that is if there IS one, of course...and not that I didn't serve in the military, but that I'm proud I can still think for myself and am not that awed by "Titles") You see, I was just a lowly ol' airlines employee traveling the world and meeting all kinds of different average ordinary people just like me throughout this planet all those years. Oh, and BTW, speaking of "following orders" etc, etc, etc...you never did answer my question about the contradiction of being a "Strict Constitutionist" and being all gung ho for The War Powers Act, ol' buddy! What gives? (and BTW...what gives with Phil and the boys being this open-minded with Godwin's Law around here anyway???....GOOD BOYS!!!)
Last edited by Dwight; 02/10/2008 1:35 AM.
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Re: Who is able to be President in the U.S.
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8
New Tires
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New Tires
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,028 Likes: 8 |
War powers act? If congress funds it, it happens! And by the way ther'e funding it and we are kicking ******.
2000 was brought up earlier, Gore should have asked for recounts in all the counties, not just demo ones. All studies report he lost.
Something all patriots right and left should remember, the Constitution is not a suicide pact.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
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Re: Who is able to be President in the U.S.
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,630 Likes: 7
Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,630 Likes: 7 |
Quote:
Oh, and BTW, speaking of "following orders" etc, etc, etc...you never did answer my question about the contradiction of being a "Strict Constitutionist" and being all gung ho for The War Powers Act, ol' buddy!
What gives?
I don't remember saying I was too crazy about that. But, if Congress wants to authorize combat without declaring war there's nothing in the constitution that prohibits them from doing so. I'm a bit young to remember, did we declare war on the Barbary pirates? You would think the very generation that wrote the constitution should have gotten it right.
We all like to think of ourselves as rugged individualists. But when push comes to shove most of us are sheep who do what we are told. Worst of all, a lot of us become unpaid agents of whoever is controlling the agenda by enforcing the current dogma on the few rugged individualists who actually exist.
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Re: Who is able to be President in the U.S.
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,219 Likes: 61
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,219 Likes: 61 |
Well we have actually done that to a certain extent....Police action.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Who is able to be President in the U.S.
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,527
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,527 |
Quote:
Quote:
Oh, and BTW, speaking of "following orders" etc, etc, etc...you never did answer my question about the contradiction of being a "Strict Constitutionist" and being all gung ho for The War Powers Act, ol' buddy!
What gives?
I don't remember saying I was too crazy about that. But, if Congress wants to authorize combat without declaring war there's nothing in the constitution that prohibits them from doing so. I'm a bit young to remember, did we declare war on the Barbary pirates? You would think the very generation that wrote the constitution should have gotten it right.
Now. thats the first and most pointendly correct analogy in this goofy thread so far.
Score one biggee for you with that Larry.
I love it when someone gets it.
"Proud to be an Infidel" ... "100% pure American Jingoist"
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Re: Who is able to be President in the U.S.
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
I agree Kevin. It's a very good point alright, even though it's beside the point. Thomas Jefferson did indeed send ships and troops to North Africa to stem the piracy which was prevalent at the time in that part of the world and all without a congressional declaration of war , AND it had a good outcome for the U.S. to boot. Always a good thing.
BUT, the question was about adhering to that document's ORIGINAL intent and to the letter of it by those who's expressed viewpoint(such as Larry states...and I hope I'm paraphrasing this correctly..."go back to the original document as much as we can").
Article One, Section 8 specifically states that Congress' "enumerated powers" include:
"To declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water;
To raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years."
And Larry, you did answer my question above when you said:
"I don't remember saying I was too crazy about that.", and thus I thank you for that, but must add that nothing in the world, even in our own continuously changing(for good OR bad) U.S.Constutution should ever be said to be inviolate to such a degree, or indeed "pined for the good old days" that it cannot be updated, changed or modernized.
That was my main point here, and I used the War Powers Act in order to press it. And yes, when I said earlier I was "A fellow strict constitutionist", of course I'm not. That was a ploy to get you to explain what I viewed as your somewhat severe stance in this matter. However I do believe that there are some very basic ideas in this document that should be followed as much as humanly possible, which this one especially I view as very important when it comes to commiting this republic to war.
(BTW Larry...thank you for your well metered response above)
Last edited by Dwight; 02/10/2008 5:14 AM.
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