 European "Safety Cameras"
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 694
Adjunct
|
OP
Adjunct
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 694 |
I just got a new Garmin Zumo 550 GPS. In studying what this thing does, I noticed a subscription that one could buy (apparently European customers) that will tell you on the GPS screen where the fixed radar cameras are (so you can back off the throttle). These subscriptions are updated weekly (identifying new cameras). I'd heard about this kind of "Big Brother" nanny-state intrusion, - but I guess it really is here (and coming)!
So, if this comes to the good ol US of A, I'll be ready for these "nanny-state bean-counters."
Go ahead, make my day
"Speedmaster" is a title not a name, - and the title is not plural.
|
|
|
Re: European "Safety Cameras"
|
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,307
Learned Hand
|
|
Learned Hand
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,307 |
Beaufort SC has cams all through out the city. if you speed they know. I use to work EMS there, was pretty cool we had a live video feed of most accident scens on the hard mount computer in the ambulance.
Dont like what you see??? Big red X in the top right of your screen will fix it!
|
|
|
Re: European "Safety Cameras"
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 694
Adjunct
|
|
OP
Adjunct
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 694 |
Hmmm. According to Garmin's subscription page, subscriptions are only available in Europe. Why not USA? Is it illegal to divulge the location of these cameras?
"Speedmaster" is a title not a name, - and the title is not plural.
|
|
|
Re: European "Safety Cameras"
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 732
Adjunct
|
|
Adjunct
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 732 |
Quote:
Hmmm. According to Garmin's subscription page, subscriptions are only available in Europe.
Why not USA? Is it illegal to divulge the location of these cameras?
There's big ole signs just before all the fixed speed cams in Scottsdale AZ, and I think they have to sign the van (moveable) ones too (all over the state). Didn't stop me from getting caught on one tho!!! Guess I should pay attention to road signs!!!! And maybe slow down a bit!!!
Yes, the lawyer got a speeding ticket this summer - in my truck on the way to a lawyer conference no less!!!!  
Becky
|
|
|
Re: European "Safety Cameras"
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 885 Likes: 2
3/4 Throttle
|
|
3/4 Throttle
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 885 Likes: 2 |
Why not USA? Is it illegal to divulge the location of these cameras?
The DMCA could possibly be stretched far enough to encompas security cameras, with it's extremely wide and vague language, stating that it's illegal to circumvent control and access measures.. but that would be quite a stretch I think, since it's really addressed towards DRM and copyright protection. Who knows, given all the laws passed in the last several years, taking away our personal freedoms and constitutional rights in the name of 'security'.
Cheers,
Brad
To be old and wise, you must first be young and stupid.
|
|
|
Re: European "Safety Cameras"
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 694
Adjunct
|
|
OP
Adjunct
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 694 |
So then, Becky, - since you might know, is marking these speed cameras out on a GPS readout screen illegal in the United States (or perhaps a State by State basis)?
Inquiring minds gotta know.
"Speedmaster" is a title not a name, - and the title is not plural.
|
|
|
Re: European "Safety Cameras"
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 694
Adjunct
|
|
OP
Adjunct
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 694 |
That's interesting, - MrUnix.
I am sure some enterprising business person will find a way to get it done (legally speaking). Afterall, money makes the world go round.
"Speedmaster" is a title not a name, - and the title is not plural.
|
|
|
Re: European "Safety Cameras"
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 732
Adjunct
|
|
Adjunct
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 732 |
Mark - The fixed cameras, since they are marked a short distance before by road signs, I don't think would be a problem to GPS mark them for yourself. Once you know they are there they are very obvious also! Arizona is starting to use the speed cameras all over - they are even coming, at least in the van form, to my neck of the woods in the near future. They don't hide them, and in fact I think in AZ its illegal to hide the speed cameras. That says nothing about some officer sitting with a radar gun (I know about them too having recently been stopped that way - DANG oversized tires on my truck!!!!!! ) So, no is the answer to your question. In the Phoenix area they are along the Hwy 101 in Scottsdale for sure......I don't spend a lot of time there, so don't know where else the fixed camaras are. The vans obviously move around. Becky
|
|
|
Re: European "Safety Cameras"
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2
Fe Butt
|
|
Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
Yep, Becky! THIS is EXACTLY the reason why I'm currently in the market for a slightly used Official Taliban signature-model shoulder-fire Stinger Missile launcher...JUST IN CASE they start putin' those darn things up in PRESCOTT!!!  
Last edited by Dwight; 01/06/2008 2:37 AM.
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
|
|
|
Re: European "Safety Cameras"
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,590
Check Pants
|
|
Check Pants
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,590 |
Quote:
Yes, the lawyer got a speeding ticket this summer - in my truck on the way to a lawyer conference no less!!!
That's funny, the one speeding ticket I ever received was on my way to a 6 week law enforcement academy in 1977. The topic that day "radar". Curiously, that was also the one time in my 35+ years of driving I ever exceeded the posted limit.
Camera enforcement? I think the "technological ability to do something" sometimes leapfrog's asking the "why do we need to do something in the first place" part.
Fortunately we are backward, simple-minded country people here without so much as a stop and go light 
jh
"It's not what I say that's important, it's what you hear" Red Auerbach
|
|
|
Re: European "Safety Cameras"
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,643
Monkey Butt
|
|
Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,643 |
USA, Europe got nothing on the UK for cameras, they have totally mad with the da*mn things sticking them everywhere they can. Good revenue I believe can be had.
Ray(UK)
|
|
|
Re: European "Safety Cameras"
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 1
Worn Saddle
|
|
Worn Saddle
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 1 |
Earlier this year I read a single article about a new camera/transponder that was meant to be tested here in Alabama; it's mounted in the highway lane reflector. I haven't seen anything on that since so either it was a hoax or a leak that got squashed.
I always wonder...why the uproar over cameras and not so much over data mining, email captures and wiretapping? Isn't the logic "if you're not doing anything wrong you don't need to worry?"
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
|
|
|
Re: European "Safety Cameras"
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,680
Learned Hand
|
|
Learned Hand
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,680 |
Quote:
I always wonder...why the uproar over cameras and not so much over data mining, email captures and wiretapping? Isn't the logic "if you're not doing anything wrong you don't need to worry?"
Because each of us knows that we are not a terrorist, but we are largely immune to the laws governing traffic (at least the ones we don't like). My kids call me on this all the time (isn't speeding a crime, Dad?). It is these times that I remind them that they are not too old to be put up for adoption. 
Thom
I might be wrong, I sometimes am.
|
|
|
Re: European "Safety Cameras"
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,693 Likes: 22
Monkey Butt
|
|
Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,693 Likes: 22 |
I cant see it being against the law for anyone to say where a speed or red light camera is.
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
|
|
|
Re: European "Safety Cameras"
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,954
Loquacious
|
|
Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,954 |
Don't know if I'd waste the money on a subscription. All of the radio stations over there will interrupt broadcasts to tell you where the cameras are active. It's not that they are adding new cameras all the time, it's just that they selectively activate them remotely so that you never know which ones are on or off (and therefore in theory are always on guard). But many a time have I been there and someone will come on the radio and tell you where they are active. (you know when you've been "blitzed" over there, ESPECIALLY at night since it lights the road up like broad daylingt-in Germany at least)
|
|
|
Re: European "Safety Cameras"
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 1
Worn Saddle
|
|
Worn Saddle
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 1 |
Quote:
I cant see it being against the law for anyone to say where a speed or red light camera is.
That's a good point. The argument for the cameras follows along the lines that in when in public spaces you have no reasonable right to privacy so it follows that neither do the public space locations of the cameras.
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
|
|
|
Re: European "Safety Cameras"
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 694
Adjunct
|
|
OP
Adjunct
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 694 |
oldroadie'
I know speed laws are in place for a reason (even though I'm a periodic transgressor). I get irrated just like anyone else when crotch-rockets go by proving their manhood (that is just before they become a yard-sale).
But here's my point, - everytime I've gotten a speeding ticket, it was because I was in a state of inattention (I've gotten ticket like 65 in a 55).
It would simply be nice to be warned "hey Mark, slow down or lose money!"
Do you kow what I mean?
-BT
"Speedmaster" is a title not a name, - and the title is not plural.
|
|
|
Re: European "Safety Cameras"
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 1
Worn Saddle
|
|
Worn Saddle
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 1 |
I agree, I'd much rather have a device that alerted me to the "error of my ways" as opposed to a letter in the mail containing a fine and a predisposed judgement of guilty. As for the crotch rockets...we call them "donor cycles" around here for a reason
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
|
|
|
Re: European "Safety Cameras"
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,693 Likes: 22
Monkey Butt
|
|
Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,693 Likes: 22 |
The most stupid policy is in my city. The police generally don't write a ticket at an accident.
Tickets are supposed to correct behavior. Well it you just turned somebodies car or bike into your new hood ornament, ummmm. Thats when the ticket books need to come out.
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
|
|
|
Re: European "Safety Cameras"
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,954
Loquacious
|
|
Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,954 |
Quote:
I agree, I'd much rather have a device that alerted me to the "error of my ways" as opposed to a letter in the mail containing a fine and a predisposed judgement of guilty.
As for the crotch rockets...we call them "donor cycles" around here for a reason
No worries folks. With such things as On-Star, GPS, and all the new technology coming out in cars, I'm quite sure that sometime in the very near future, there will be an option for the car to give a warning. It would not be a huge leap for most GPS systems to also have data about speed zones in particular areas, or for speed signs to have transponders, which could be compared with the reading of the vehicle speed (which is done via the wheel speed sensors on most ABS systems now and also via GPS systems built into a lot of newer cars), and then if you're over the limit, a voice would say "Hey, leadfoot, slow your s#$& down!!" I already have a feature on my car for times if I'm using snow tires, where I can program in a max allowable speed for snow tires and get a warning if I go over that. Now, the NEAT trick would be if it would also warn you when your in the left lane and going way too slow. Yep, it could say "Hey stupid, you're blocking everyone, and this is a passing lane as well, so get the HE## over, huh!"
|
|
|
Re: European "Safety Cameras"
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2
Fe Butt
|
|
Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
Ya SEE, folks?! Greg's got a point here!
Technology CAN be our friend TOO!
(I especially like his suggested digitized "Left Lane" program...somebody put a call into Steve Wozniak's office and have him jump on this ASAP.....PLEASE!!!)
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
|
|
|
Re: European "Safety Cameras"
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,630 Likes: 7
Monkey Butt
|
|
Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,630 Likes: 7 |
There is a new radar detector from Escort that incorporates a GPS and computer. It memorizes the locations and parameters of false signals so they can be ignored, and the location of high threat areas so it can remind you. I don’t have one of these models yet but it looks like a good investment. As an aside, if Americans were really law abiding we’d be subjects of the Queen.  http://www.escortradar.com/9500i-blue.htm
We all like to think of ourselves as rugged individualists. But when push comes to shove most of us are sheep who do what we are told. Worst of all, a lot of us become unpaid agents of whoever is controlling the agenda by enforcing the current dogma on the few rugged individualists who actually exist.
|
|
|
Re: European "Safety Cameras"
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 43
Greenhorn
|
|
Greenhorn
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 43 |
I update my Satnav on a monthly basis using http://www.pocketgpsworld.com/Great for users in the UK....not too sure if it will be any use to you guys in other parts of Europe or the USA.......Worth checking it out though.
|
|
|
Re: European "Safety Cameras"
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,026
Learned Hand
|
|
Learned Hand
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,026 |
Not all states have determined the constitutionality of the speed cams, I hope some eventually decide against them ( ie for the motorists ). A major issue in all this is many times it is a private company that owns and operates the cams, thus they have a vested interests in convictions and in that manner, it taints the law. If a city/county/etc owns them themselves, then they throw out this issue. Oftentimes, they cant afford or simply want them as cheap as possible, so the contracted means has been their choice,and hopefully that conflict of interests will do them in ( then the companies will have to seel them cheap, or the govt agencies will have to determine if they can justify the cost vs the return...like a real business..to get these stupid things ). Its just another form of lazy law enfocrement and a easy way to make money.
Our Liberties We Prize and Our Rights We Will Maintain
If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and will never be.----Thomas Jefferson
|
|
|
Re: European "Safety Cameras"
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2
Fe Butt
|
|
Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
Quote:
As an aside, if Americans were really law abiding we’d be subjects of the Queen.
The above(and actually very insightful) aside was either a subtle shot across the bow of the "H.M.S. Triumph Riders"...OR it was a call to arms.
(but at this time I'm not exactly sure which one it was, folks!)
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
|
|
|
Re: European "Safety Cameras"
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
|
|
Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821 |
Screw the speed and red light cameras.
(But don't dis the DHS)
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
|
|
|
Re: European "Safety Cameras"
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 322
Adjunct
|
|
Adjunct
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 322 |
That's why they threw them out in Hawaii...
There were white vans parked alongside the road, they were private hired by the City and County of Honolulu, therefore, it was a money thing. Anyone going over the speed limit got a ticket. There were lots of folks going 2 or 3 miles over the limit that got tickets in morning and evening rush hour traffic who showed up in court... The judges threw out everything 6 mph and under, also threw out a lot more in questionable cases. No more speed cams. BIG public outcry.
Red light cameras are a bit different, but barely, because it's still big brother. Plano, a bit above Dallas has a lot of them. That seems to stop folks running red lights, also traffic accidents at those lights decreased about 2/3's. I think the newspaper said they threw out about 1/3 of the tickets before they were ever sent... as in yellow is ok, but red was not.
Mary
Krashdagon aka Snappy
|
|
|
Re: European "Safety Cameras"
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,204
Learned Hand
|
|
Learned Hand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,204 |
Quote:
USA, Europe got nothing on the UK for cameras, they have totally mad with the da*mn things sticking them everywhere they can. Good revenue I believe can be had.
Birch, it's not for revenue(that's secondary), it's used to record information for engineers who design roads and to record accidents. Also as a deterent for speed and to gather evidence on stolen vehicles(sometimes they acually video the person stealing the car).......ANGELIS
1200CC BIG BORE, W/WISECO PISTONS,.250 STROKED CRANK, PORTED/POLISHED HEADS AND LARGER VALVES, CUSTOM WELDED EXHUAST, DUAL 42MM MIKUNI CARBS.
|
|
|
Re: European "Safety Cameras"
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,152
Oil Expert
|
|
Oil Expert
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,152 |
Quote:
I cant see it being against the law for anyone to say where a speed or red light camera is.
I dunno, it's illegal to have a radar detector in many places...
|
|
|
Re: European "Safety Cameras"
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,541
Loquacious
|
|
Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,541 |
Well, i must confess to having quite a few speeding tickets in my life time. I am usually driving between 5 and 10 mph over the posted speed limit at any given time in the car, though i do tend to ride the bike at or very near the posted limit.
But, if i may for a moment defend the gatsos. IF we were all to obey the speed limits (or to put that another way, OBEY THE LAW) then these camaras would be a non issue, as we, being law abiding citizens would have nothing to worry about.
You really cant get PO'ed about getting a ticket, be it from a camara, patrol car or an unmarked police car. Fact is you broke the law and got caught.
Arsenalfan. AKA Mark Able
Seller of fine automobiles.
Jaguar, Land Rover, Porsche of Chattanooga
423-424-4000
|
|
|
Re: European "Safety Cameras"
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,630 Likes: 7
Monkey Butt
|
|
Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,630 Likes: 7 |
Quote:
Well, i must confess to having quite a few speeding tickets in my life time. I am usually driving between 5 and 10 mph over the posted speed limit at any given time in the car, though i do tend to ride the bike at or very near the posted limit.
But, if i may for a moment defend the gatsos. IF we were all to obey the speed limits (or to put that another way, OBEY THE LAW) then these camaras would be a non issue, as we, being law abiding citizens would have nothing to worry about.
You really cant get PO'ed about getting a ticket, be it from a camara, patrol car or an unmarked police car. Fact is you broke the law and got caught.
You are assuming the speed limits make sense. That is often not the case. Far too often the limits are set well below what the natural flow of traffic would be without an arbitrary limit. Whenever I hear someone whining about how 90% of the vehicles on a road are exceeding the speed limit I wonder why self appointed experts get to set them rather than the motoring public. If the speed limit is 55 but everyone is doing 70 then why is the limit not 70? Speed limits are often set more for political and revenue reasons than for safety. A local suburb called Windsor Heights has a citywide speed limit of 25 MPH that they enforce with a gleeful ruthlessness. The main artery that passes through is 35 to 45 MPH everywhere else in the metro area but 25 there.
I’m sure everyone knows of areas where the customary speed is well above the posted limit. To drive the limit, rather than go with the flow of traffic, is to increase your chances of an accident.
We all like to think of ourselves as rugged individualists. But when push comes to shove most of us are sheep who do what we are told. Worst of all, a lot of us become unpaid agents of whoever is controlling the agenda by enforcing the current dogma on the few rugged individualists who actually exist.
|
|
|
Re: European "Safety Cameras"
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2
Fe Butt
|
|
Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
I'm often wondered about this very same thing Larry, and the only conclusion I can draw after all these years is that the local Highway Commission or whatever other ultimate authority responsible for setting speed limits, bases it all on the "Lowest Common Denominator Theory", and that is...they take Granny Olson, they place her in her 1983 Chevy Citation, they make her drive during a foggy winter moonless night, and THEN whatever speed SHE can maneuver said situational dynamics without complaint, THAT'S the speed limit!  (HEY!!! Ya gotta BETTER THEORY, dude...then let me HEAR IT???!!!)
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
|
|
|
Re: European "Safety Cameras"
|
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,017
Loquacious
|
|
Loquacious
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,017 |
I don't know if it was already covered here...too many people typing too many words, but the PROPER way to determine a speed limit on newly constructed roadways (which many if not all townships seem to forget about) is to first open the road with no speed limit. Then after a speed study, take the 85th percentile and voila...you have yourself a speed limit.
Mark
|
|
|
Re: European "Safety Cameras"
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2
Fe Butt
|
|
Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
"85th percentile", Mark???!!! Nah! With most the speed limits I'VE encountered over my 40+ years of possessing a valid drivers license, I STILL like MY "Granny Olson Theory" MUCH BETTER, dude!!!  (and BTW, I forgot to add, Granny must have her left-turn signal flashing throughtout this whole speed determining process also)
Last edited by Dwight; 01/07/2008 4:05 PM.
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
|
|
|
Re: European "Safety Cameras"
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 1
Worn Saddle
|
|
Worn Saddle
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 1 |
Quote:
Then after a speed study, take the 85th percentile and voila...you have yourself a speed limit.
Would you also apply this to other laws as well? This aproach might make for some interesting application of alcohol, gambling, dope and sex laws around the country. 
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
|
|
|
Re: European "Safety Cameras"
|
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,017
Loquacious
|
|
Loquacious
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,017 |
Mark
|
|
|
|
|
