 Harleys!
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 365
Adjunct
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OP
Adjunct
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 365 |
Well, I've heard so much talk about chain drive over belt drive yet never gave it much thought----until now. My son has a HD Sportster with belt drive. The belt broke recently so he went and picked up a new one. 200 plus dollars later he's ready to put it on. But unlike a chain with a master link the belt is one piece. To change it he had to remove his exhaust pipes cuz the sprockets on the same side as the pipes----duhhhh---good engineering huh  , and a slue of other components in order to install the one piece belt over the front and rear gears. Anyway, some folks say chains are old school---I say, if it works, don't fix it----I'll keep my "old school" Triumph with it's easy to change chain. Ok, I'm done Harley bashing now----bye, bye---- Paw. 
07 America, Pacific Blue/New England White.
SSgt. USAF 67-71
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Re: Harleys!
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,639 Likes: 3
Old Hand
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Old Hand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,639 Likes: 3 |
At the same time, with a belt conversion, you have to take the swingarm off to change the belt on a Triumph.
On the Vstar counterfeit Harley, you have to disassemble the entire shaftdrive assembly just to change the rear tire. Good thing those don't have much torque so the rear tire lasts a little longer than it might.
The Sportster would probably cost around $800 to $1600 more if they hadn't carried over as much of the chaindrive design as possible, and they were easy to change the chain.
Let's hope there's intelligent life somewhere in space 'cause it's buggar all down here. -- Monte Python
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Re: Harleys!
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,968 Likes: 1
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,968 Likes: 1 |
I've thought long and hard about going belt drive and I just don't think it's worth going that route. I don't notice the chain noise. Also, I like having the flexibility of changing my front sproket size. The belt is less maintenance but I like tinkering.
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Re: Harleys!
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,643
Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,643 |
I like the idea of a clean back wheels, but don't envy the hassle if the belt breaks at the side of the road, at least with a chain you can pop in a link and get home..
Ray(UK)
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Re: Harleys!
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,690
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,690 |
Cant count on one hand how many Harley owners I have waved at on the side of the road doing the "belt wave"... suxx to be you !!! I would have stopped, but there was really nothing I could have done...There's a bunch of those guys anyway....
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Re: Harleys!
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,684 Likes: 20
Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,684 Likes: 20 |
My Triumph is not a bagger. The tools I carry say Verizon on them. If my chain breaks, Mr. Tow driver can get me with the Harleys, cause I am not going anywhere either. If your chain breaks you have other worries. 1- Are you still upright and alive. 2- How far down the road is it to walk to get it? 3- Is it in a condition to be broken and master linked? 4- Do you have a full tool kit, breaker, extra links, and a replacement chain? The new chains are fabulously reliable and long lasting. Belts last 3x longer, are quiet, clean, and no maintenance. To respectfully disagree, belts are the best technology for the money available today. Many engineers would even rate belt drive well above shafts for performance and economy.  You are correct though that you can break a chain and fix it on the side of the road.
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
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Re: Harleys!
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 57
Member
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Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 57 |
I've broken belts (Harley) and shafts (BMW) and believe me, the chain it the way to go. Almost any hardware store and any cycle shop has chain so you can always pick one up in a pinch. You can replace it on the side of the road. It is considerable cheaper to replace than belt or shaft. And...the kicker of all time....IF a chain was "old school" and out of date...why is it that all race bikes run chains?!
Dave
Dave
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Re: Harleys!
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,018
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,018 |
why is it that all race bikes run chains?!
Chains are very good at transfering power. They are the easiest to set up in a hurried situation. They allow for gearing changes much more easily. In a raceing application you're not worried about longevity. Most racing teams don't run o'ring chains because they rob a bit of power and again no worries about how long they will last. So. Racing tech doesn't really apply much to us. Generally we want a long life, little as possible maintance, and no worries. All of the current drive systems have good and bad points. I'm happy with my chain. If I had a belt,I'd most likely be happy with that too. Shaft drive I don't much like because of high cost when something goes wrong. And they do. Talk to some bmw folks for a bit.
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Re: Harleys!
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,684 Likes: 20
Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,684 Likes: 20 |
You get the best performance from a chain with the least HP lost with easy changes is why the race bikes run chains. It takes more HP to spin a shaft,they push down on the asphalt and add weight. If I had a CBR1000RR I would want a chain. I don't, I have 1/2 that HP and 100lbs more weight on my "Cruiser". Why do BMW and the Rocket 3 have shafts? What a stupid thing to do? They should have chains. BMW has been around how long now? Shaft is old school too. Why do the most advanced bikes in the world from Japan Inc. have shafts on their cruisers? Because chains suck Dirty and loud The happy medium is belt. As above, his Sportster could be changed in his garage with a bit of money. They are a fraction of the weight of a shaft and transfer power with less HP needed. They are quiet and clean. The average bike owner either would not or could not change the chain out on the side of the road anyhow. Today the bike dealers do a great business just doing oil and tire changes for the helpless consumers. 
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
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Re: Harleys!
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821 |
I carry my chain tools whenever I'm on a ride that puts me further from home than another good sized town. Old habits and that.
I figure that I can buy a 525 chain at any bike shop and get back on the road, however unlikely the necessity would be.
Maintain the chain and replace it every 20,000 miles, you'll probably never have one break.
If the insurance will pay to haul it home, that's where it goes.
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Harleys!
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,639 Likes: 3
Old Hand
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Old Hand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,639 Likes: 3 |
Take a look at photos of antique bikes from around 1900. Triumph, Harley and many others started with belt drive. Belts are outdated, give me a nice up to date chain!
Let's hope there's intelligent life somewhere in space 'cause it's buggar all down here. -- Monte Python
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Re: Harleys!
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,726
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,726 |
I do carry basic tools with me, but I can't see me changing a chain on the side of the road on this bike. So, I do have towing (hauling) insurance and would rather get hauled to the Triumph shop or home. When it is replaced, it would be with exactly what I want on it with new sprockets as well. Even if I could do it, I wouldn't want to have to do it twice (with a temporary fix).
I not quite sure why I carry tools at all, but I want to be prepared for something I could take care of myself. I guess that would be adjustments, cables, or just something loose that needs tightening.
Bob
2005 America, 904cc - sold. 2014 Trophy SE.
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Re: Harleys!
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,179 Likes: 55
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,179 Likes: 55 |
Chain is the way to fly, been saying that for years. Best reason is as stated above. It can be easily fixed along the road. I have never had any other concern except getting it back to gether so I could ride the rest of the day. Had it fixed in a few min. and enjoyed the rest of the day. No need to ruin a good ride so you can run a belt.
Have to disassemble the drive shaft to change a tire on that bike?!?! My 64 BMW the whole drive shaft and differential stay in place and all you do if pull the axle and the wheel slides off it's splines. The rear fender is hinged so you can do it on the center stand. If you run a sidecar and carry a spare you can be back on the road in no time. The front and rear wheels are the same to boot. Gotta love those old BMWs.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Harleys!
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,839 Likes: 3
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,839 Likes: 3 |
a couple of wrenches, a chain buster, a master link,(all of which can be carried in a tool roll) and badaboom we are rollin. probably about an hr?? belt?? call the tow truck!! shaft?? probably never have a problem, handles torque real well (hence the R-3 haveing shaft) but there is a lose of power in the transfer. so i think i will just stick with a chain, thank you hahahaha A long time ago i was traveling out west and got to runnin with a guy on a snortster for awhile, he fixed his chain enough to get to a nearby town with a piece of steel rod, kinda like a clothes hanger thickness but not a hanger. we were able to limp into the town where he got a new chain.  lets see ya do that with any other drive source 
ENJOY!!!!! NEWT!!!!!
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Re: Harleys!
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,684 Likes: 20
Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,684 Likes: 20 |
You guys have me worried now. How many broken O-Ring chains do we have? Not junk replacement ones, OEM chains. I know a lot of back in the day chain break stories.
My chain has 15k on it and feels fine.
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
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Re: Harleys!
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,179 Likes: 55
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,179 Likes: 55 |
Only chain failure I have had in over 30 years of riding was my own fault for running it until it broke instead of replacing the worn chain, and I have NEVER had anything but standard chains until now. So don't be so quick to call a regular chain junk. If they are lubed and maintained they last as long as an X ring, maybe longer. I have over 15,000 miles on my stock chain now and have totally abused it. I think I lubed it maybe 3 times and never clean it. I am too used to the breather on my antiques blowing oil onto it for me.
EDIT: That is not saying all regular chains are equal, some are junk.
Last edited by The_Dog33; 12/29/2007 3:01 PM.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Harleys!
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,531
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2005
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Re: Harleys!
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 322
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 322 |
A chain is great...until....
A long story involving..
a car with a flat parked on the side of the freeway...
A dumbass cager that didn't see it and rear ended the car...
that caused the spare tire to roll/bounce down the freeway...
and hit the handlebars on the bike my ex was riding...
he's not sure exactly how, he probably ran over something as well... he said he was a bit preoccupied at the time... traffic on both sides of course...
The shaft that holds the front sprocket broke off, and the chain snapped.
No gears.
We ended up replacing the entire motor/tranny with a used one because it was cheaper..1984 Suzuki 400 something or other.
At least it was a cheap bike! <BG>
Mary
Oh yeah, there's also replacement belts with some kind of links to use for temporary repairs. I know a few guys that carry them.
Last edited by Krashdragon; 12/29/2007 5:27 PM.
Krashdagon aka Snappy
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Re: Harleys!
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,639 Likes: 3
Old Hand
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Old Hand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,639 Likes: 3 |
Quote:
You guys have me worried now. How many broken O-Ring chains do we have? Not junk replacement ones, OEM chains. I know a lot of back in the day chain break stories.
My chain has 15k on it and feels fine.
There is a difference in quality. The Chain on the Triumphs should last a very long time with reasonable care. Now, a very long time ago when I was a poor kid, I had a no-name cheap import chain on my bike and the master link failed. Fortunately, there was enough room that I could cobble it together with a bit of coathanger I found on the roadside and made it home. What's that old saying? Something about necessity being a mutha?
Let's hope there's intelligent life somewhere in space 'cause it's buggar all down here. -- Monte Python
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Re: Harleys!
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,060 Likes: 6
Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,060 Likes: 6 |
As usual, I'm with the Dogg. 30+ years of riding, never broken a chain. A lot of the time I was too poor to buy a good chain, bought a cheap one. Even then, I'd run it until it stretched, then take a link out and run it until that one stretched it's full swingarm slot length. Then change it. Never, ever, broke a chain. With todays o-ring chains going 20 thousand miles +, chain is absolutely no problem.
Fidelis et Fortis
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Re: Harleys!
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,179 Likes: 55
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,179 Likes: 55 |
Quote:
Oh yeah, there's also replacement belts with some kind of links to use for temporary repairs. I know a few guys that carry them.
Those belt repairs kits get you about 10 feet,I have seen it several times.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Harleys!
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,337
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,337 |
If belts are the shizzle, how come anything 2-wheeled that goes over 160 mph has a chain?
Belts are clean and quite, but so are shaft drives. There isn't isn't anything functionally wrong with a chain.
2002 Bandit 1200/ GSXR cams/ 1277 BB Kit/ Holeshot header and can/ 38mm flatslides/ a good head/lotsa hp/lotsa tq- lots of rear tires...
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Re: Harleys!
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,684 Likes: 20
Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,684 Likes: 20 |
Quote:
If belts are the shizzle, how come anything 2-wheeled that goes over 160 mph has a chain?
If chains are the shizzle, how come anything 2-wheeled has a shaft or a belt that is a cruiser? Triumph being the exception on our bikes.
How fast does a Rocket 3 go with its shaft?
Have you ever looked at the K1200 S? 167 HP with a shaft.
The V-65 Interceptor had a shaft 25 years ago.
Chains are not bad but they are not really better. 3 technologies to push bikes around. All work and all are very dependable.
1 of the 3 is just noisy, dirty, and requires regular tweaking 
 we have so drug this off the original topic of why Harley sucks. 
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
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Re: Harleys!
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,179 Likes: 55
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,179 Likes: 55 |
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Harleys!
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 195
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 195 |
I really like the belt. The chains are noisy and dirty. While they can be fixed, they need tinkering. I am seriously considering a belt kit for a Speedmaster. I will carry a spare and the tools to change it. http://www.newspeedmaster.com/html/belt_drive_conversion.html
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Re: Harleys!
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,753
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,753 |
you will carry a jack? or do you have a center stand
Frank
(Former)05 BA tbike pipes, ai removed, Freak, mikuni hsr 42's, 904, ported/polished head, 1mm oversized valves
NOW-2010 silver and black tbird
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Re: Harleys!
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,179 Likes: 55
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,179 Likes: 55 |
Quote:
I really like the belt. I will carry a spare and the tools to change it.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Harleys!
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,060 Likes: 6
Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,060 Likes: 6 |
You guys that keep complaining about "chain noise" really crack me up. If you can actually listen to the chain going around while concentrating on piloting and enjoying the ride, you need louder exhaust. What's next, complaining about the wooshing sound made by the air going across the handlebars? Or how about that anoying tick, tick, tick sound coming from the tread on the tires?
Fidelis et Fortis
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Re: Harleys!
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,684 Likes: 20
Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,684 Likes: 20 |
Rob, you may wish to re-think that belt kit. It cost a ton and last I heard is many months to never to get them.
Dog, I know one guy who broke a belt since the early 90s. You guys talk like belts break daily. I have over 35k on one of my belts. Are there stats out there I don't know about with the Kevlar belts? As you said, in 30 years you broke one chain. Is it your contention that all Victory, Harley and some Yamaha are on a tow truck once a year from failed belts?
Earlier somebody talked about the "My belt broke wave" as if every single day you see this. I live in Motorcycle land outside of Bandera Texas 60 minutes to the Republic of Texas Rally and 3 hours to the South Padre Rally. I gotta tell ya, I don't see that wave. Never knew that wave existed.
Now, if you go to a 50,000 bike rally you will see broken bikes but 1% would be 500 broken bikes?? hmmm Now what percentage of those are belts?
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
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Re: Harleys!
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 879
3/4 Throttle
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3/4 Throttle
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 879 |
If you do it today you MIGHT regret it. If you CAN'T do it tomorrow you WILL regret it.
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Re: Harleys!
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821 |
Shaft, belt, chain....
I like anchovies on my pizza.....some don't.....so what? It all eats.
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Harleys!
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 37
Greenhorn
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Greenhorn
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 37 |
goodtech here, all I got to say is real bikes have chains the rest are imitations I lube my chain with bg chain lube and the lube is clear so it does not make alot of mess just wipe it off,also my brother never lubed his chain on his susuki.never broke had the bike over ten years. 
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Re: Harleys!
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825
"Lighten up, Francis."
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"Lighten up, Francis."
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825 |
Quote:
goodtech here, all I got to say is real bikes have chains the rest are imitations
Wow, another opinionated newbie. Great.
My TBA has a belt so 'all I got to say' is... 
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Re: Harleys!
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,179 Likes: 55
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,179 Likes: 55 |
Yeah but chain is still far superior to a belt in many ways.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Harleys!
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 386
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 386 |
Chain..Belt...they both have their good/bad points - they are both gonna give at some stage if not properly maintained/adjusted, the secret is to replace them before they self destruct - after all they are probobly the singlemost part on a bike that gets the biggest flogging with the most minimual maintainance. I think it boils down to personal preference
Hoffo
2x Norton Commando Roadsters
08 Triumph America
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Re: Harleys!
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,639 Likes: 3
Old Hand
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Old Hand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,639 Likes: 3 |
Quote:
You guys that keep complaining about "chain noise" really crack me up. If you can actually listen to the chain going around while concentrating on piloting and enjoying the ride, you need louder exhaust. What's next, complaining about the wooshing sound made by the air going across the handlebars? Or how about that anoying tick, tick, tick sound coming from the tread on the tires?
The only time I ever heard chain noise from a motorcycle was some kind of far east inline 4 with a chain so loose it was nearly dragging on the ground. From the way it was flopping up and down, I'd say the stretched spot was near twice as long as it should have been.
Let's hope there's intelligent life somewhere in space 'cause it's buggar all down here. -- Monte Python
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Re: Harleys!
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825
"Lighten up, Francis."
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"Lighten up, Francis."
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825 |
I didn't notice any chain noise until I didn't have a chain...
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Re: Harleys!
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,179 Likes: 55
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,179 Likes: 55 |
There is a certain amount of chain noise,I can't hear it over my exhaust though, also a certain amount of vibration but to me it just isn't a real bike without a chain and a chain is easy to make a solid permanant fix along the road.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Harleys!
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 432
Adjunct
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Adjunct
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Posts: 432 |
Good gawd! Everyone knows that chains are for bikes and belts are for pants! 
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