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Ian glad you could keep your cool in the situation. If I was in your place, heads. would. roll.

Dog, if that would have happened in Oklahoma i would have filed an arrest warrant and take the girls into custody myself. On the other side i may have been tempted to go stomp the s*** out of the fathers of the girls........Angelis

You guys should all know I wanted more than anything to stomp the crap out of them but I kept my head so when it comes to litigation I am squeaky clean.I am no better than anyone I was just trying to defuse the situation and looking ahead.

Update: After pressing it with the police today in person at the station they took pics of Wendys injuries and filed charges of assault on both girls and are looking at possible placement for them. We also went to the hospital for more documentation purposes. Amanda is OK as far as we can tell and so is her baby,again as far as we can tell at this point. Wendy has a black eye,broken blood vessel in that eye and some pain in a few spots. As most of you know she is disabled and has back issues to start with so being knocked to the ground and kneeled on didn't help matters.

EDIT: I should clarify, the charge is simple assault,a misdemeanor.

Thats friggin unbelievable ,glad your wife and daughter are okay . i think its time for our justice systems (Canadian one is sh1te too) to be looked at and changed ,kids know they get a slap on the wrist .seems the criminals have more rights than the victims and thats just not right.

I don't know about Canada but here in the US if a criminal breaks in your house and gets hurt he can sue you and win including if the family dog does it's job.

Hope this works out OK for your family. Hate to say it, but it seems local Sheriff's departments are a crap shoot. I'd have the State Police number on my hotline for any future issues.
Keep us posted.

Glad to hear it looks as if everyone is alright.

Two words...Home Invasion.
Misdemeanor? Where do you guys get your cops from? I wouldn't let those dopes rake my lawn.

you are preaching to chior Paul! They just don't want to risk doing their jobs here. This area has gotten to be mostly NYC transplants of the welfare minority nature and are very fast to scream harassment and sue. I am not making excuses I think they should do their jobs anyway and let them try and sue and scream discrimination.

Quote:

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I don't know about Canada but here in the US if a criminal breaks in your house and gets hurt he can sue you and win including if the family dog does it's job.

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Unfortunately the same currently applies here in the UK, what's worse is that the scroats know it and will try and milk it everytime.
There's recently been vague attempts to alter the laws over here so that the victims have more rights regards self defence and protection of property. I don't know how far this has come yet but until common sense prevails there's little to be optimistic about.
I hope you sort this mess out and justice is done. Unfortunately the law sometimes doesn't work in favour of the victim, you can see why folks take matters into their own hands....

Heck in Boston they probably would be charged with Terrorism also.
Can't believe that won't do something for you here Ian.
You know any local politicians? It helped me alot with the local garage band/noise pollution. But then again I'm the local politician.

Thats not a bad idea, I ride with at least one of our local politicians. He chairs something but can't remember what anymore. He is a Wheels of Freedom patch wearer and covered in tatoos. Good guy I know pretty well. Have to laugh he has a bald head with the all seeing eye tatooed on the back. Just makes me laugh because he isn't at all what you would expect a politician to be.

There is actually a small update, the girl that assaulted Wendy has done it before. She took a baseball bat to some guys head not long ago. She is also bipolar and is supposed to be medicated, not sure if any of that plays into our situation or not yet. But we are pushing this as far as we can.

I would definitely talk to the DA or someone higher than the patrolmen who showed up at your door. About a year and a half ago my daughter was in a fight with a girl she went to high school with. She and this girl had not been getting along for a while.She and a couple of friends went to a party where this girl also happened to be. The girl attacked my daughter and she defended herself. She woke up on a Friday morning with a big scratch down the side of her face. I told her to go press charges but she wanted to let it slide. Well two days after this the other girl goes and presses charges against my daughter. The cops had no problems doing this.I also believe you may be able to go the clerk of courts and file for at least a hearing. We did this with counter charges of assault and where able to have them stick when the other girl did not show for the hearing. It should not matter that the girls are seventeen. A crime was committed and something should be done.

in mississippi we have what is called the "castle" law, you can defend your home and property, including your auto "extention of home" with deadly force if required, without legal re-percussions. this has worked out well so far, folks coming windows and kicking in doors, being blown back out, no charges to home-owners, just accolades. kinda cut down on car-jacking also, of course the attackers pick the weakest victims. i live in a rural area, my first line of defence is myself. had this situation occured at my house,,,,,, we'd have a completly different outcome here.i see some praising you for restraint against your wife and pregnant girl's attackers, i say kick the 3$%@ out of, and break some of this stuff up!!!!! YOU COME TO MY HOUSE, ATTACK MY FAMILY,,, IT' YOUR ******!!!!!!!!!!

Wow! I can't say much here that hasn't been said, but I don't know if I would have been able to show as much restraint as you and your lady did. What's worse is for the police to imply that by opening the door she was challenging them to a fight. I would definitely be in their face about persuing charges and the maximum charges available. Also on the threat of killing your daughter at the game...I think that qualifies as a terroristic threat, and I can't fathom why the police wouldn't have taken that more seriously and filed charges even at that time. I definitely think that the state police need to be involved and the DA and if they're not willing to assist..then go to the states atty. Maybe they can see why it is that the Local Authorities aren't taking this seriously enough.
And once again I would like to reiterate how insane it is that the criminals have more rights that the victims. If you defend yourself or your home then they can sue you and for a legal system to allow that and to allow a criminal to prevail is acinine. I'm glad I'm not a judge.

I agree fatrat, if I was able to they would both have a severe case of lead poisoning but all that would get me is jail time here. The like force thing for the first thing. If I used greater force against them then they did me then I am in trouble. Thats BS too me since if I am attacked in my home or on my property I think I should be able to use any means at my disposal to defend myself and family.I would have loved to just knock them both on their asses ( the 3rd girl stayed in the car) but there again all that gets me is jail time (and a little satisfaction). I handled it the best way I could I think. I got them off my family and got between these kids and my family and waited for the cops to come do their job. Unfortunately they didn't do their job. We have shots of the injuries and took more shots again yesterday since Wendys eye looks much worse given time for the bruise to show up. We are going to sue them and their parents and are pressing as many charges as we can , including simple assault now.

The DA and the Police SGT. are part of the problem. Their attitude is they have more serious crime to deal with and don't want to waste the resources on things such as ours and went on to say he has 3 or 4 more incidents just like ours to deal with. I asked him if he thought if he actually did something about it if he thought maybe there wouldn't be as many incidents. I got no answer just a tirade.

let me be REAL CLEAR, i was'nt advocating firearms use,, but i would have put my foot up someones a--. there has been several incidences of people shooting theives and attemped jackings. I DON'T OWN ANYTHING WORTH TAKING A LIFE OVER,but,,, if they come slapping on my wife, there is no on what limits i'd resort to in the end. the law hamstrings the crap out east coast and west coast honest, decent working folks. i know this was a case of teenagers with no up-bringing, living for the moment and now their folks will go broke trying to protect the little darlings. all i was saying is if that had happened at my house,, i PROBABLY would've tryed to knock them out,, then called the high sheriff to come get their a-----. they'd think before pulling similar stunt. people LOVE actions,,,, but,,,, they HATE consequences. anyway,, best wishes to you and yours, something like this just jumps all over me. i've been reading of some of the problems you've been having,,, you really did'nt need this...... chin up.

I agree I wouldn't have shot these 2 either but would have liked to put my foot up their a$$es too. Under the circumstanced I couldn't though.

Well, the DA's an elected official.
Be sure his next opponent gets all this information.

Sorry to hear what you and your family have been going through Ian. Please give my regards to Wendy for me, and hope your Daughter Amanda will be ok. No one needs these type of situations in there lives but if or when they do happen, you really want the Police to look after you and your security. I guess that's what is the most disappointing aspect of what's happened to you guys, that what we all consider as justice is not being served.

BTW, here in Australia the situation is very much the same where victims seem to have very little rights whilst those that do the crime seem to always get away with little or nothing as a deterent from them re-offending. Now that's criminal.

Hope it all sorts itself out with good outcome Ian however, legal advice would be the first thing I'd do as the Police are purely pawns in a much bigger game I believe.

UPDATE: After jumping through all the hoops and going to all the officials we could they refuse to press assault! They are only getting Trespass and harassment. The police took pictures of Wendys injuries ,Amanda was taken from the scene in an ambulance and we have all that documantation. We went to the hospital for Wendy too and filled out all that paperwork for an assault and had X rays and photos taken there too. The cops and DA still refuse to press charges and say since they are juvinals it will just get thrown out anyway so why press them. No wonder there are so many adult criminals. They teach the kids they can get away with things like this so whats to stop them? Even if it gets thrown out they should be charged to show that this is serious and is unacceptable behavior. Next time I am much more likely to take things in my own hands.I tried to do the right thing and this is what I get.

Hey Ian...suggestion here:

BEFORE you "take matters into your own hands"(remember, even John Wayne died in the "The Cowboys", dude)....

If you haven't already, hire yourself a lawyer, and have your lawyer do a "Goldman Family Number" on those irresponsible parents of those loser kids o' theirs(ain't it kind'a funny how some families pass down their "loserness" to each successive generation, HUH?!) and have him(or her I suppose, there are certainly some very good female attornies too, ya know) FILE A PERSONAL LAWSUIT in that other court system(the Civil Court).

(don't forget, you don't have to get all 12 of the idiots who serve on a jury to find in your favor THERE!)

You see, once those yo-yos(those afforementioned irresponsible parents, that is) have their house taken away because of their lawyer fees and the final judgement against them, they MIGHT(though, this is STILL a long shot, to be sure) start doin' what they should have done when their offspring were little bitty tikes....and THAT'S become REsponsible parents.

I didn't post the best part or worst depending how you look at it, The mother of the one girl actually told the police they wanted to press assault charges on us for restraining them after they attacked us! At least the cops refused to do that.

OH GEEZ!!! And this was at YOUR home???(if I read your original story correctly, that is)

Well, with a brain like THAT "mother" possesses(and the convoluted "logic" that would naturally flow from it), is it any wonder her kid is so messed up too???!!!

(her poor kid...challeged by both forces of Nature AND Nurture!)

Morons. Stories like yours are why I have increasingly less and less respect for the legal system. Maybe Dwight has a good idea. I know one thing for sure, you can't take the law into your own hands because then you'll find that the law suddenly doesn't have its hands tied.

go with what Dwight said, take them to civil court and hit them in the pocket book for hospital and any other bills that came along with emotion stuff, a good lawer will know how to handle it. and like he said, maybe, just maybe these parents will wake up to the facts about their kids. if you hit them in the pocket book, i think the kids will at least get an a-whoppin (i would like to think) if nothin else

We have already been talking about Civil Court, We have been talking about that since day 1 seeing as the cops said at the scene (my house) that they wouldn't charge assault.We are still looking for a lawyer since we can not afford to pay much to retain one.

Contrary to popular belief, there are a few nice lawyers out there... At least one that would maybe sit down with you for an hour so you can get some good advice if nothing else. You'll be way ahead of the game.

My step father is a lawyer but the wrong kind, he is a real estate lawyer. He is of some help but not really his area.

Thought of that but thanks, he didn't have anyone to send me to. We are still looking though. We are hoping to find a lawyer that will do it on contingency. There seem to be plenty out there. We posted about this in the local news paper (Pocono Record)not sure where Wendy posted it but there are a few lawyers that seem to be fed up with the cops not doing their job where these kids are concerned, Don't know if that sentiment is genuine or just fishing for money but we will look into it anyway.

Ian -
I don't know what the laws in PA are (given I practice criminal law in AZ), but if there are Victim's Rights provisions in your laws, there may be a legal aid type clinic at one of the law schools that will assist victims - possibly for little or no cost and maybe even with the civil stuff.

I am SHOCKED that given that there were the types of injuries you describe that Assault charges were not filed, especially since one of the girls has a history of assualt. I can tell you if you were here - 1st. they would have been arrested on the spot, and 2nd, assault charges would have been included. Please make sure police and the DA know about the associated threats, and that the school is also advised - not just the coach, but Administration - particularly if these girls go to school there also.
I don't have many contacts in PA but have a couple.....if you want to PM me about your exact location I can see if they would help you out, and what I can do about hooking you up with my legal contacts there (police and DA)....not sure that will really help tho!
Becky

Becky thank you, the legal aid and victims rights angle isn't one I looked at or thought of, Not sure if Wendy did or not. I'll have to run it by her. We did talk to the state police and from what they said if we had called them instead of 911 (911 calls the local cops here) the girls would have been charged with assault and taken to jail (detention). We know next time (hope there won't be one) to call the state police.

Hats off to you Ian. You used unbelievable restraint during the incident. I'm unsure how Virginia laws would have affected me after I mopped the yard with the troublemakers, but if I had acted as you did, the little twirps would have surely been arrested and hauled away by either the Sheriff's Dept. or the State Police. A man's home is his castle and anyone who comes there looking for a fight shouldn't be surprised if they find it. I hope everything turns out OK.

Amazing Ian. Around here the cops have gone too far. A man from town was just convicted of assault and fined for pushing someone in town hall.

Dude I gotta hand it to ya showing that kind of restraint, especially with you daughter being pregnant, and those slores beating up the wrong sister. Lucky for them it didn't happen at my house or they'd be a chum slick on the Atlantic right now.

Thanx guys but as I said, I am beginning to think I made a mistake by not doing something along those lines. There is still civil court but we are having trouble finding a lawyer. Talked to a few today. $1500 for a retainer and told we would need more money in 2 days at most is the best we could do so far. We are still looking. Had a whole other can of worms opened today too. The X boyfriend /father of the twins showed up today with the cops to try and take custody of the twins. Cops said no way in he11 would they take them but had to make a good showing. So they came in and chatted with us for a few minutes. The father is a NYC gang member and lives with 2 count them 2 couples that both had their children taken away. He is also a convicted arsonist with no job. We had just gotten a letter today that he is over $1500 behind in child support (we haven't gotten a cent) and is being taken back to court by child services for non-payment.