Bonneville America Forums Forums Off Topic Discussion Forums Lounge Saw The Aftermath Of A Bad Car Wreck

I saw the aftermath of a bad car wreck Friday night.
A young man and woman in their 20's...their car had rolled over.
She was being helicoptered to a trauma hospital. He was very bloody, strapped to a backboard and yelling in pain.

After my motorcycle wreck of 4 weeks ago, this was a very tangible reminder that you are not guaranteed safety just because you are driving a car instead of riding a motorcycle.

Regards,
-Ward

That sucks man.. YOu doing ok?

Any activity on asphalt is inherently dangerous, you have to assess your personal risk comfort zone and go from there; only you can know. I, for one, hope you ride again but only when you're satisfied you're ready.

I have been one or two cars away from THREE rollovers on the same 1/4 mile scretch of road. One a VERY close call. Lesson I learned... Rear ending someone seems like a better idea than swerving into the grass median... EVERY car flipped that went into the median!!

It's kind of weird. People almost seem happy to tell you about some poor sod messed up in a bike accident. It's like there reason for not riding these contraptions is justified. Then they hop in a car, stick a cell phone in their ear and drive off with out a worry in the world.

Yesterday saw young lady driver shielding her eyes from the sun with one hand, talking on the cell phone with the other and smokeing....... waiting to turn left in front of me.... grrrrrr

a couple of years ago, I was heading to Frankfurt Airport, when i passed a crash scene where a guy had plowed a Mercedes head-first into one of those concrete dividing wedges that separates the Autobahn from the off-ramp. He had to have been doing an incredible speed, because the front tires and engine were where the back seat would be! As we drove by, they were zipping up the body bag, and all I could think was of this guys family at the other end waiting for their husband/daddy/brother/etc... to come home. It still sticks in my mind today.

actually, I will take exception to that. It's not speed that kills (although had he hit the barricade at 20mph he'd have been far better off), but the lack of good judgement and driving skills. I see this kind of stuff every day on I-84, someone weaving in and out of traffic at 20+ the majority speed of the traffic, cutting very close to other vehicles. It won't be that the idiot is going fast that kills him, or someone else, but that he thinks he's a better driver than he really is, or is just a complete and utter thoughtless moron who thinks he is much more important than everyone else, and so doesn't even give a 2nd thought to how stupidly he's driving (or she, sorry ladies!). I've seen enough people who shouldn't even be driving at 5mph on country roads, let alone at 65-80 on an overcrowded interstate. That's what kills, not the speed itself.

Speed kills is a little too trite, and wrong. When Montana eliminated the speed limit briefly in the 90's fatalities didn't go up.

What kills is lack of awareness, whether through drugs and/or alcohol, lack of experience or talking on cell phone. Heck, the big bugaboo up here now seems to be falling asleep while driving. They've got billboards all over the place.

"contributing factor" is a bit different than "speed kills." And I wouldn't put too much weight on posted limits. Many are artificially low for revenue generation purposes.

(Note to self: Why am I even bothering? )

Ward, I found this set of myths and facts published by a retired excutive from the Michigan Department of Transportation.

Myth : Highway Fatalities went up when the speed limit was raised to 65.
Reality : The total number of fatalities went up but not as much as the amount of miles traveled. So the Fatality Rate actually went down. The only real measure of fatalities should be the highway fatality rate expressed in deaths per 100 million miles traveled. For each mile you travel today on highways posted 65, you are safer than you were when the speed was at 55MPH.
Myth : It is more dangerous to drive on the freeway because of higher speeds.
Reality : Divided interstate highways are by far the safest road to drive. The fatality rate is two to three times lower than the rate for undivided highways. In fact, overall highway fatalities fall when you raise speed limits on the safe interstate roads because more motorists use those roads instead of the more dangerous secondary road system!
Myth : Drivers will automatically drive 10 to 15 MPH over the posted limit.
Reality : Most drivers will drive a safe comfortable speed for the conditions. The reason drivers drive 15 MPH over the limit today is because the limit is set way to low! In Montana where daytime speed limits were basically abolished, the average speed has increased ONLY 2MPH. A major federal study has shown drivers will drive a safe speed no matter what the speed limit.
Myth : Drivers with speeding tickets or who use Radar Detectors are more likely to be in an accident.
Reality : Drivers who use Radar Detectors are safer as a group than those that don't. Drivers with speeding tickets are no more likely to be in an accident than those with perfect records.

Myth : Speed Kills.
Reality : Poor road design, large speed differentials, asleep drivers, drunk driving, and poor driving skills kill. Setting speed limits to the 85th percentile proper road speed SAVES LIVES!

Yes, and some people will debate endlessly about seatbelt usage also, even though statistics prove that your chances of surviving a collision with a seatbelt on are much, much better than not wearing one.

Same thing with helmets, some people will debate endlessly in the face of glaring facts contrary to what they "think."

Study the statistics of the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) and you will find the following...

"Motorcycle operator error was identified as a contributing factor in 76 percent of fatal crashes involving motorcycles. Excessive speed was the contributing factor most often noted."

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Regards,
-Ward

Ward, please explain the significantly lower deaths per capita in Germany then. In Germany, driver education is significantly more involved than here in the states (and much more costly and the cost is bore by the person seeking a license). Generally, although there are stretches of unlimited speed zones on the Autobahn, the majority of traffic flows at a fairly fast 80-85mph. The Semis drive at about 50mph (you will NEVER see a semi driver doing 80 with the cars, they will yank their license in a MINUTE!), and people will only use the left lane for passing. Despite the majority of the traffic flowing at 85, it is generally very safe for a driver to pass traffic at 120-140mph with very little concern for saftey. Why? Because drivers there take driving seriously! They check their mirrors (yes, they actually use them!) religously BEFORE pulling into the passing lane, and generally only stay in the passing lane as long as is needed to pass someone. People do not tailgate, and people ALWAYS signal. So, here, you have people with significant variations in speed using the same highway with very good results, and much lower death and accident rates. NO, it is not speed. I can hit a deer just as easily at 40 mph on the way home, as I can at 65. Yes, I must react faster, and if the reaction time and distance are too short, then I will have an accident, but then, that is due to my poor judgement (perhaps I should not have been driving at 65 on a dark country road in the first place), not the speed. Yes, it is a factor, but not the CAUSE. That is where the "speed kills" argument is flawed, since speed is not the cause of the accident, but poor skills and judgement.

Geez , enuff , go to bed !

I won't debate endlessly.
Seatbelt and helmet laws are safety nazi-revenue making b.s.

You can't fix, legislate, or child-proof STUPID.

Stop trying to protect me and enforce the existing laws.

I'm not gonna say that speed kills.

I'm not gonna say speed isn't a contributry factor.

I AM gonna say that in both my crashes I was doing under the speed limit for the roads that I was on at the time and was lucky enough able to walk away both times.

It's the other idiots on the road most (but not all) of the time.

SSGRex, no, it appears that the German part of my family came from Alsace, although one of them (by marriage) was in Fredick the Greats Army and was made a provincial governor due to his performance during a battle. Of course, then he got smart, protested a tax that he didn't agree with enforcing, was thrown in the klink for 60 days, then protested being thrown in the klink and was about to be thrown back in, and decided it would be a good time to try out those new American colonies...

I won't say it's a well orchestrated ballet on the Autobahn. The one BIG problem I see over there, is that since ALL trucks (small Fiat delivery trucks to the big articulated Volvo OTR haulers) are limited to 80km/h(48mph) and stick to it, well, when one guy in a little Fiat pulls out to pass a couple big guys, and won't go over 85km/h, well, you get the picture! SO, that is the stuff you really have to watch out for. I had a guy pull out into the passing lane in an Audi doing about 120km/h, and I was doing about 220 km/h, and apparently he didn't look in his mirrors first. Well, let me tell you, even with Anti-lock brakes, my rear wheels LOCKED, but I avoided a collision, kept it straight, CRAPPED my drawers, and backed it down to a more sedate 160 km/h. And, you do get Sunday drivers over there, just like here, who will camp in the left lane, but not anywhere NEAR the level over here. Normally, for a German to get a license, it costs approximately 1500 Euros (about $2000 now) out of his own pocket just to go to driving school, which quite some time. But, it's not like our drivers Ed here. They take you out and teach you to drive in traffic, in the rain, at night, etc... It seems you actually get your money's worth. Then, you have to pay another couple grand to get the license itself, although it is issued for life I believe, but still, about $4000 just to have the PRIVILEDGE to drive. And that's not even getting into the cost of a car (which has to meet stringent safety regulations every other year, which make our emissions and safety insepctions look like a joke!), and insurance, and gas at about $5-6 a gallon and so on. So, no, it's not perfect over there, but there is a seriousness to being behind the wheel that I appreciate (like not seeing EVERY single driver on a cellphone!) there, that I don't see here in the States. Do I want the costs of driving and getting a license there, no, but I'll gladly take the manners and respect for other drivers any day.

A friend of mine here in Little Rock and his ten year old son were returning from a softball game last Saturday in his 2007 Nissan Sentra. They were on a two lane paved road when some jerk wad in a Mustang coming from the opposite direction just pulled out to pass another car - on a curve and with a double yellow line! The Mustang 'driver' tried to serve back into his own lane but overcontrolled and my friend hit the other car smack on the side ride aft of the front wheels at a 45 degree angle. Totalled both cars. My friend and his son were saved by seat belts, airbags, and about a millisecond of timing, and NO ONE can convince me otherwise. The son went back to school yesterday, and my friend is on crutches for a few more days at least, but it could have been MUCH worse. I have no idea what condition the other jerk is in, but he deserves what he got, IMHO. My friend said the last he saw of the guy, he was being carried off on a stretcher in REALLY bad shape.

Think of what this could have done to a motorcyclist had the asshat pulled out in front of one of us...

same thing in Norway.

and actually, we have a law against using your cell phone while driving. If you don't use a hands-free-set and the cops spot you, you have to pay a fine equal to NOK 1300 (app. $260)

/Rune