 Supersports-Death Traps?
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OP
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Thought this comparative fatality statistic that just came up on the USA today site interesting: Cruiser (low seat and center of graity): 5.7 Touring (powerful, heavier weight): 6.5 Sport (lightweight, built for speed): 10.7 Supersport (one-person racing bike): 22.5 Source: Insurance Institute for Highway Safety Probably says a lot more about the experience and risk taking attitude of the riders  than characteristics of the bikes.
Keep your powder dry
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Re: Supersports-Death Traps?
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
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What do the numbers mean? 5.7 what?
But, I do agree that a lot of it has to do with the rider. A lot of these younger kids seem to have no fear, feel they are invincible and a lot of times lack brain cells (see a lot of them on their repli-racers with shorts, flip-flops and t-shirt). I am going to say that 99% of the time it is the rider, not the bike.
Soren
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Re: Supersports-Death Traps?
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Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
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Yeah, I see a lot of that baggy shorts and flip-flops look around here too. The thing that bothers me is their pillion riders in tank tops and shorts, that's accepting a lot of risk trusting a young sport rider to be skilled with a passenger. It's sad that the invincibility of youth is so short-lived.
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
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Re: Supersports-Death Traps?
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Check Pants
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Check Pants
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19 year old kid killed Sunday in MD. I knew an EMT that was on the scene. 3 AM accident, no other vehicles involved. Kid was found over 300 feet from the bike. They estimate a very high rate of speed. Another kid killed in June, soldier returning from Iraq, first day back, also 19. Killed on a brand new R6, same road as the accident previous. Lost control on a curve brining the bike home from the dealer with his brother behind him.
Under 25 or so should need some sort of experience rating to purchase these missles.
I guess kids killing themselves with fast cars/bikes is nothing new, but the HP per dollar ratio available now is greater than ever.
Al
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Re: Supersports-Death Traps?
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A pretty high percentage of military fatalities are from personal vehicle accidents (at least 60-70% IIRC) and a good chunk of those are crotch rockets.
Sadly, we have a bunch of kids that we teach to be "invincible", give them oodles of money, and expect them to be responsible with their new toys.
Granted, we have frequent safety training and inspections and extra PPE requirements, but when was the last time you tried to bang something into a 19-year-olds head when all he's thinking about is going really and how hot the girls will think he is on his shiny new Gixxer?
Even worse when they can hit the Autobahn and they've only ever been taught (sort of) to drive 55.
SFC, US Army (Ret)
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Re: Supersports-Death Traps?
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Joined: Mar 2006
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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The military is requiring all memebers who ride to wear safety equipment or they will denied benefits. Also I remember when my brother returned from training and the military told him not to engage in high risk activities which included dirt biking and snowmobiling.
My other brother (18) is looking for his first bike. I have already told him I will not allow him to buy a sport bike for his first machine. (with the exception of a Blast)We are currently looking at dual sports.
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Re: Supersports-Death Traps?
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Joined: Jul 2006
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3/4 Throttle
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3/4 Throttle
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I think there are many reasons sport bikes have more fatal accidents per whatever that number is but one reason is the motorcycle press-not all but some big name magazines. Too many covers and articles are about sport bikes in some extreme photograph. Kids see this, think it's cool and want to impress their friends.
I did stuff when I was young that I wonder why I'm here now but you couldn't get into too much trouble on a 4 hp Cushman. If I had had a super powered, light weight sport bike, I would have probably hurt myself.
A few months ago I bought one of the higher circulation magazines with a doctored photo of a 'Busa and rider on the cover that appaeared to be airborne. The check out kid noticed my riding gear and asked what I rode.
"Oh man, I want one of those!" His eyes lit up and he pointed to the magazine and then went on and on about the performance of that bike.
'Kids don't try this at home doesn't cut it.' As long as people under some age(22?, 25?)can buy 150 hp and they read these magazines and see the articles about extrememe performance, they are going to die in unequal proportion to other riders.
Sure, 'gentlemen and ladies of a certain age' buy most of the cruisers but most of us have the sense to look past what we see in movies and magazines and ride safely with all the gear, all the time no matter what we ride or drive.
Riding a motorcycle is dangerous enough without a young person on an over powered machine that only experienced and skilled riders should be able to purchase and ride.
Redbike7
2006 America
No amount of skill can overcome gross stupidity. Ask me how I know...never mind, I forgot...
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Re: Supersports-Death Traps?
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Joined: Apr 2007
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Exactly right. As the father of a 21 year old son, I've noted published accounts of this subject. No kidding, twice in the last month I've seen articles from researchers who say this irrational risk-taking is physiological. Risk assessment is a complex logic function and comes from the portion of the brain that is the last to mature. It's not until the late 20's that the brain is able to make a rational choice when it comes to excitement vs. self preservation. Guess that's why most of us look back on our teens and early twenties and wonder how we survived.
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Re: Supersports-Death Traps?
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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It's not until the late 20's that the brain is able to make a rational choice when it comes to excitement vs. self preservation.
I can tell you definitively it was 26 when life hit me and I woke up to the possibility of one of my stunts killing me. I notice it alot more when I'm hanging out with my younger brothers.
And your right on with those magazines pushing the riding stupid and fast on too kids. Couple that with dealers who are all too willing to sell that fast rocket to a learner instead of offering a beginner bike. Heck very few companies are making a decent beginner bike now anyway. Starter bikes start at 500ccs now. I can't tell you how many huge insurance policies I have written on the 18 yr kid on the new 600 zoomsplat only to file an accident or theft claim later that year. And most of those "theft" claims are when a kid is goofing off and blows the motor or crashes trying to stunt. Another problem is how cheap a sport bike is? 1/2 the price of a cruiser with twice the power.
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Re: Supersports-Death Traps?
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
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Quote:
I think there are many reasons sport bikes have more fatal accidents per whatever that number is but one reason is the motorcycle press-not all but some big name magazines.
Oh yea, I keep forgetting that nowadays, it never has anything to do with personal responsibility and accountability.
Soren
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Re: Supersports-Death Traps?
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Big Bore
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Big Bore
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I had one of these (750 Kawasaki 2 stroke):  way back when, 'cept mine was painted lime green and slightly bored out (didn't look this good either). Made almost 80hp and weighed a little over 400 lbs. Rode it about a month before figuring out that any more of it and I was likely to die. That thing was quick!! 
"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity" - Robert Heinlein
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Re: Supersports-Death Traps?
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Joined: May 2007
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Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
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Quote:
Oh yea, I keep forgetting that nowadays, it never has anything to do with personal responsibility and accountability.
There's a maturity factor that goes into "personal responsibility and accountability" that many younger riders lack. One assumes that parents, dealers and motorcycle journalists would possess this maturity although assumptions can be both unfounded and dangerous. MSF course mandates for riders under 25 years might not be a bad idea to increase their skill level.
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
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Re: Supersports-Death Traps?
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Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
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Quote:
I had one of these (750 Kawasaki 2 stroke):
way back when, 'cept mine was painted lime green and slightly bored out (didn't look this good either). Made almost 80hp and weighed a little over 400 lbs.
Rode it about a month before figuring out that any more of it and I was likely to die. That thing was quick!!
That's much like my first bike  except mine was the H1-500cc and had drag bars. Fortunately, I lived in Hawaii and their drivers test was the hardest in the nation...not unlike a MSF course...and you actually had to be able to ride and control your machine prior to being licensed. I still use the lessons I learned in Hawaii in 1972 today 
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
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Re: Supersports-Death Traps?
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Joined: Jul 2007
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Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
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Experience is a huge factor in cycle accidents. Once read that 80% of motorcycle accidents happen to riders with one year or less riding time.
Fidelis et Fortis
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Re: Supersports-Death Traps?
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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hey Phil, my neighbor has one of those he rides all the time, winnnng ding ding ding has had it all its life. i always get a kick outa when he rides past the house. "there go's John" hahahahahaha i think he just took the motor to some expert in Ohio to have it all completly worked over??? VERY QUICK MOTORCYCLES!!!! and had to stand on the handlebars to keep the front end down. that and the 500 were the quickest bikes i ever rode untill a few yrs ago, but they handled like a boss hoss, good for a straight line hahahahaha
ENJOY!!!!! NEWT!!!!!
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Re: Supersports-Death Traps?
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Joined: Mar 2006
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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My FIL had a H1-500. He said the front tires would last forever. Its amazing he lived through the 70s.
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Re: Supersports-Death Traps?
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Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
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Quote:
Its amazing he lived through the 70s.
 I know that feeling 
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
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Re: Supersports-Death Traps?
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3/4 Throttle
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3/4 Throttle
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I agree strongly with personal responsibility-parents not buying over powered bikes for under skilled riders and publications for not pounding the drum so loudly. I have nothing against sport bikes in capable hands but they are 'cool' and the segment of the market that buys on 'coolness' alone has no concept of personal responsibility.
Redbike7
2006 America
No amount of skill can overcome gross stupidity. Ask me how I know...never mind, I forgot...
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Re: Supersports-Death Traps?
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Quote:
Sure, 'gentlemen and ladies of a certain age' buy most of the cruisers
Shoot, I bought my first bike, a Speedmaster, at 26. I'm gonna do it backwards; get a 999 when I'm 50 and can afford all the gear, goodies and track fees!
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Re: Supersports-Death Traps?
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Youthfull Indestructibility + Power to Weight Ratio + Glossy Ad's extolling power at any cost + a higher percentage of vehicles on roads + stupid gangster / Street Racer movies + you tube etc.+ easy money + parental legal inability to control said children = Death & Destruction
2x Norton Commando Roadsters
08 Triumph America
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Re: Supersports-Death Traps?
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Over here in NZ to get your Motor cycle licence you must first do a two year stint on a maximum of 250ccs. I allways thought this was too harsh, but reading through this post I can see the sense.
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Re: Supersports-Death Traps?
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I passed my UK test only five months ago at the tender age of 47. The testing procedure in the UK is about to get more stringent next year (2008) and I am personally all for it.
My partner's son who is 19 is "Busa" this and "gixxer" that but has neither the skill, sense or personal responsibility to ride either but were he in the financial position to do so (he isn't thank God!)he could purchase one of these missiles and not only kill himself but put the lives of innocent people at risk.
A higher minimum age limit should be imposed.
07 America (Pacific Blue/New England White). . . . and they say divorce doesn't pay!
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Re: Supersports-Death Traps?
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Oil Expert
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Quote:
What do the numbers mean? 5.7 what?
The study says: "Number of deaths for every 10,000 registered motorcycles in 2005". My rule of thumb is that people will tolerate a 1 in a million risk of tragedy. For example (roughly) one in a million ski days ends in death or a crippling accident, one in a million airplanes doesn't land and even one in a million car trips ends badly. Bikes though, are a lot worse. if you just take the 7.5/10,000 overall statistic, and say people ride 100 days a year, thats 7.5 chances in a million, way riskier than any other activity you're likely to engage in.
My skiing, plane, and car figures are from years ago but they're probably still roughly right.
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Re: Supersports-Death Traps?
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3/4 Throttle
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3/4 Throttle
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In my opinion, in England. The problem doesn't really lie with the powerful bike but with scooter and mopeds.
It gets my goat when I see kids zooming about on those things with no protection whatsover (T shirt, shorts and NO gloves). Luckily it's against the law to ride without a helmet.
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Re: Supersports-Death Traps?
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Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
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One in a million for those other activities doesnt seem quite right. You hear about skiers getting hurt all the time. What are the stats of people gettng permantly hurt or killed in cars? I am going to guess it is almost the same as bikes. It just seems worse because there are fewer bikes.
Soren
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Re: Supersports-Death Traps?
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
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Buy your kid a bike that does 178MPH and the 1/4 under 10 seconds then keep him alive by insisting he wear a helmet. Has anybody thought about inertia. Imagine your liver going from 100 to 0 right now!!. The helmet allows the family to have an open casket.
Owning a sport bike is voluntarily joining the ranks of organ donor if you ride it the way it is designed to be ridden. Its a matter of when, not if.
There above, is the number 2 killer on bikes. High Speed.
The number 1 killer is alcohol or at least used to be.
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
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Re: Supersports-Death Traps?
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Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
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Quote:
Owning a sport bike is voluntarily
Exactly, and the way it should be.
People need to get back into the mind set of personal responsibility. You are responsible for your own actions, you cannot blame anyone if you are doing something that can potentially kill you. The government needs to stop restricting things (and passing babysitting laws) that could potentially you and let people find out for themselves.
Soren
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Re: Supersports-Death Traps?
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Check Pants
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Check Pants
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Quote:
Quote:
Owning a sport bike is voluntarily
Exactly, and the way it should be.
People need to get back into the mind set of personal responsibility. You are responsible for your own actions, you cannot blame anyone if you are doing something that can potentially kill you. The government needs to stop restricting things (and passing babysitting laws) that could potentially you and let people find out for themselves.
Soren
Sadly that's wishful thinking. The era of personal responsibility ended in the late 80's. Will it return...?
Al
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Re: Supersports-Death Traps?
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
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Soren, you have never been more right, because you are exactly correct. If you choose to become road kill that was your choice.
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
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Re: Supersports-Death Traps?
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Adjunct
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Quote:
Imagine your liver going from 100 to 0 right now!!.
I think Yota's liver did that at about 12:53 this morning.
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Re: Supersports-Death Traps?
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Oil Expert
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Oil Expert
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Quote:
One in a million for those other activities doesnt seem quite right. You hear about skiers getting hurt all the time.
Per this article "A total of 274 skier deaths occurred between 1980 and 2001 in Colorado. Death rates ranged from 0.53 to 1.88 per million skier visits." - sound like one in a million to me. Per this article, "In 1979 there were three fatal accidents per million flights, compared with one fatal accident per two million flights by last year, according to International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO) figures." - again, sounds like one in a million. Believe it or not, car travel clocks up the same order of magnitude of bad things per day trip. Bikes are just shockingly worse.
Now remember, everybody has to die of something sometime, presumably the average 1st world risk of dying in a given year is something like one in 75 or so. At age 59, my risk of dying must be one in 40'ish (if I want to get it over with in the next 40 years). My risk of dying on my bike looks like being one in 1500-2000, so no biggie.
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 Re: Supersports-Death Traps?
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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With all due respect to sportbike ladies, a sportbike is most likely to attract those most vunerable to testosterone poisoning. A young man in his 20's is immortal. He hasn't had his wake-up call yet. Do you remember yours? Mine came from a 1982 GPz550 and left me with a compound open fracture that took 11 months to heal. If you survive your wake-up call, you have a good chance at a long life. It's a shame that the immortals have the hardest heads in the world. 
Steelheart- '03 Speedmaster Black/Yellow
The Hayabusa Killa
16" Shorties/140 mains/Airbox drilled
Procom CDI
"There is no cure for Celibacy. But we can treat the symptoms."
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Re: Supersports-Death Traps?
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Big Bore
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Big Bore
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Quote:
He hasn't had his wake-up call yet. Do you remember yours?
Mine was on a set of 7, 14-17' waves (hurricane driven) in Cocoa Beach a number of years ago. I knew I was going to drown and just did survive. I truly realized my mortality that day.
Still didn't stop from being stupid for a bunch more years though! 
"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity" - Robert Heinlein
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Re: Supersports-Death Traps?
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: Supersports-Death Traps?
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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I have had a supersports bike in my stable all my life (currently an Aprilia Mille 1000cc and a Ducati 998 before that). I normally take a ride at dawn (avoiding traffic) to include a short stretch of highway and then relatively twisty secondary roads. Comparatively speaking for car enthusiasts, it would be like taking a Ferrari for a spin. In my opinion it's all about knowing both our and a bike's limits and staying within a safety threshold ... on any bike! (including our Triumphs). With 3 very differnet bikes (SM, BMW R1100RT and the Aprilia) in my stable, I know the whereabouts of my/the limits on each one (i.e. I know when it starts becoming ... potentially unhealthy ).
Bedouin.
Blessed are those eyes that have seen more roads than any man! (Homer).
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Re: Supersports-Death Traps?
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Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
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Quote:
What are the stats of people gettng permantly hurt or killed in cars?
Here in the US we have approximately 250 million registered cars and average 45,000 deaths making that a 45 to 250,000 ratio. On their scale that's a number around 1.8
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
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Re: Supersports-Death Traps?
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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Cheap speed scary thing. Would you hand your 17 year old the keys to a Indy Car? of course you wouldnt. Some of these sports bikes are just as fast to 150.
Why we can sell these race bikes ( thats what they are) to first time riders is beyond me. To much speed takes to much focus to ride them, And whan your young your just nuts with speed
Chris
Pain heals, Chicks dig scars, and Glory last forever.
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Re: Supersports-Death Traps?
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Quote:
Cheap speed scary thing. Would you hand your 17 year old the keys to a Indy Car? of course you wouldnt. Some of these sports bikes are just as fast to 150.
Why we can sell these race bikes ( thats what they are) to first time riders is beyond me. To much speed takes to much focus to ride them, And whan your young your just nuts with speed
altogether too TRUE. Theh demographic that rides these things in the US is mainly YUTES. Male YUTES with a tendency to assume that they are immortal. (A categorical assumption for all US males aged 17 to say ...22 give or take..sometimes more or less)
A fair percentage of the fatalities can surely be put directly into the DOA /cause stupidity category.
But then so can a large percentage of all automobile accidents where teenagers are the victims
I think almost all of us can review our own days of YUTE and realize we were lucky to have survived them.
Last edited by clanrickarde; 09/29/2007 11:55 AM.
"Proud to be an Infidel" ... "100% pure American Jingoist"
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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One of my co-workers today informed me he lost a 23 yr old nephew on Sunday. (he'd been out all week now I know why).
From what he told me it was another case of rounding a blind corner at high speed, and slamming into a car stopped in the road waiting to make a left turn. Lot of twisting back roads around here, cant see whats around the turn till its too late somtimes. And yes it was a sport bike.
The percentage you're paying is too high-priced
While you're living beyond all your means
And the man in the suit has just bought a new car
From the profit he's made on your dreams
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Re: Supersports-Death Traps?
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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I am sorry to hear that news ...
Warren
04 Caspian Blue and Silver America
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