 not QUITE yet !
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Joined: Jan 2006
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Loquacious
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OP
Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,606 Likes: 2 |
Sorry Phil but this was still sitting in my craw!... Quote:
If you are the only one making a part, cant you charge whatever you want?...(within reason obviously)
NO!!! you cant!!!
Why is it that those who are NOT in business think that those who are (particularly the small specialty businesses) are off screwing the customer...but that the BIG business is offering a cheaper product so they must not be....
I had watched this from it's innocent begining to it's bitter end, and remained quiet but some of the implyed and straight forwardly stated comments were to much...
Ok here goes...
I'm in a business that has maybe 5 competitors across the USA...we are a HIGHLY specialized producer...our customer base is VERY limited and THEY are possibly aware of two of my competitors...due to the nature of the business and the remote locations of the competition...we all run virtually solo in our respective market areas…shipping costs would make any gains in price prohibitive to do business with my competitors...if your in MY area...so in short I HAVE LITTLE OR NO COMPETITION...
According to your postulation I can therefore charge what ever I want (within reason as you put it) BULLSH!T !!!!
I would have retired by now were that true...
I can charge only what the market will allow...yes I have no competition, however my customers are not total fking morons and they only have so much $ to spend...they know when they're being screwed (and quite frankly so do we).
To imply that, because you're the only player so you can charge anything you want, might work in a Mad Max movie selling water or gasoline...but in the real world it doesn't quite cut it...most especially with the small businessman...
There are jobs I have to quote at a break even or even a loss, just to keep the doors open and my employees working…I’m not making a single penny, but I am still open and my guys still have work, and perhaps next month we’ll turn a profit…perhaps that job I just took a bath on will blossom, and the next time they order I might do OK…I got NO COMPETITION so WHERE’S my HUGE PROFITS!!! According to your theory I should be rolling in it and using 100 dollar bills to light $50.00 Cuban cigars…Your right when you say you know nothing about the business side…and it shows.
The bigger companies that you are asking to get involved “because they will keep the prices down…Brilliant!!! Oh there you are right, they WILL keep the cost down…and soon they will drive the little guy out…then there is no competition for the big guy…they have MASSIVE buying power and with power comes abuse…talk to any vendor that deals with Wall Mart and ask them how olde Wally world is to deal with…They are total and complete jackasses and they demand their price and if you can’t meet it tough sh!t, they will go elsewhere to get it…quality HUH!! they could care less, they are after the $$$ and the bottom line…if some company is making jeans in China for less $$$ then that’s where their jeans come from…don't like that go buy your jeans somewhere else...oh you can't to bad! Customer service…yeah sure go tell the President of Wally world that you got an issue…see how far you get….
I’ll GLADLY pay more for a part from a smaller vendor over a similar part from a big conglomerate some where IN A HEART BEAT!!! Because first he actually gives a Sh!t about his product, and me as his customer…and because of that I might pay more but I GET more…
One of the vendors here, you know those robber barons, well I had issues with two parts from them, one I broke (because of MY STUPID move) the other I had an issue with MONTHS after the purchase…upon inquiring about the one I had issues with, I MENTIONED the other which I SCREWED up, and why I thought it happened…I was told to return them BOTH…and they were BOTH replaced…now one I got within days…The one I broke…the other took MONTHS…yep MONTHS…I was told that there were issues with the supplier…so I waited…and it came….and it cost me ZILCH…both of these issues could have been easily ignored or I could have been told that they were WAY past any reasonable warrantee but instead I got SERVICE…
And THAT is why I gladly will pay a little more…the profit margin’s that the big guys work on is miniscule at best why??? Well since your business acumen is so bad I’ll tell you…volume…you see if you make one percent on a ten million dollars in sales…that’s a 100,000 in profit…but if you make 30% of 50,000 in sales that’s only 15,000….hardly retiring to the Islands on that are we….and THEIR COSTS are MORE so the reality of a 30% margin is crap…they NEED to make more because they sell so little…yet the market often will not bear what they need to make…
This is why I buy my parts from my dealer, will I pay less at bike bandit, or some other super center… you bet I will…but my dealer is a local guy, and YES he has a face and I HAVE broken bread with him….but you know what …HE has broken BREAD with ME and I have a face TOO…and that is something you just can’t put a price tag on…some of my best customers know they can ask for the seemingly impossible and we will do what ever we can for them, so that their customers are happy…they didn’t get gouged, or taken advantage of because I’m the only game in town…but we have a reciprocal understanding…we are in business we need to make $$$ and fair is fair…and in return for that understanding, we offer the best possible product we can and the best service we can.
Big guys purchase plating cheaper because they order more…period. They walk in and say I got an order for 100000 gismos and I’ll pay you this to plate them…if you can perform I’ll order X more next month…if you don’t like it we’ll go to Johnny and see if he’ll do it…soon enough the little guy shows up with a 100 part order for the SAME PARTS and now they have to WAIT in a CUE to be serviced and then the price per part is much higher…Now little guy has to mark up his price and pass it on to you…but big guy, well he has to mark it up to…but he doesn’t need to mark it near as much AND he didn’t pay anywhere as much, to begin with…
So if you’re thinking that you were just asking a simple question about supply and demand you are mistaken…more suppliers DOES NOT equate to better! It often might seem that way at first but in the end it actually means you get a lost in the shuffle forced to purchase inferior product and with no recourse…Go find that little do-dad that you need, and the local hardware store always had, at Home Depot…and wait till they tell you that they don’t move enough of them to stock them….then tell me again how bigger is better cause it makes things cheaper…
The fact that you premise your statement with I’m only saying I think more suppliers would be better…is a bogus misconception more does NOT always mean better it just means more…and soon they are competing amongst each other for your business…and that starts a price war…but to cut costs and stay competitive they have to cut corners, and soon quality is crap…but H3LL You are paying less…then, suppliers (without deep pockets) start to drop out of the chain…but you still get you cheap parts and you have to go to Mega Mart to buy them, because Joes parts isn’t there anymore, but Mega Mart doesn’t carry everything you need, so you get cheap crap and only the cheap crap that everyone else wants!
You original statement of “If you are the only one making a part, cant you charge whatever you want?...(within reason obviously)â€Â
Just Highlights the fact that you do indeed have NO understanding of business! I have no issue with anyone wanting more to select from…but your desires seem to be based upon faulty logic.
And if you really did understand business then you never would have asked (or implied) the question to begin with.
THE VOICE OF REASON
per: Stewart
AF&AM/Shriner/Scoutmaster
130/45 TBS 2shim SS Uni 18/42
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Re: not QUITE yet !
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 730
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 730 |
Oh man, look what I did... When I asked for everyone's thoughts I meant about my spelling, grammer, and presentation style, sorry guys.  
Let my dying thought be that every mile was fun and let my tombstone read,"They never made one fast enough for me."
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Re: not QUITE yet !
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,210
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jun 2007
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Dear broken (not yet)fixed I am censoring you for awhile. You want to reply to members in order to explain yourself, do so by sending them a PM.
Rob, if it was that important, he'll pm you.
Last edited by moe; 08/22/2007 1:35 PM.
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Re: not QUITE yet !
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,606 Likes: 2
Loquacious
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OP
Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,606 Likes: 2 |
Just because we don't see it the same/or share the same view doesn't mean I harbor any I'll feelings, cripes if that were true I would...well lets just say there would be a long line in front of you...
THE VOICE OF REASON
per: Stewart
AF&AM/Shriner/Scoutmaster
130/45 TBS 2shim SS Uni 18/42
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Re: not QUITE yet !
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,210
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jun 2007
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Re: not QUITE yet !
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,616
Check Pants
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Check Pants
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,616 |
Quote:
pm sent
went ahead and got yourself censored ...ahah 
You sure did a number on this forum stirring the pot! ...ahah
SOLD: 07 Black BA, 39mm FCRs, TPUSA stage 1 head, TPUSA 813 cams, TPUSA 10.8:1 pistons, TTP #3 igniter, Specialty Spares Long Cannons, Tsukayu Hard Bags. 82HP/55tq
NEW: 19 Goldwing Tour DCT
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Re: not QUITE yet !
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,195 Likes: 56
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,195 Likes: 56 |
I have to say J&P Cycles were very good to me. I broke an oil pressure gauge by turning it harder than I should to try and make it face the way I wanted and told them that. They gave me a big discount on a new one and new chrome elbow. They for got to send the elbow but I was too busy to build the 2nd gauge and didn't get to it until over a year later. I called them and asked if they could knock a few bucks off another one since it had been so long I wasn't asking for them to just send one. Well they did just send one on my word that they hadn't over a year earlier. That's great customer service.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: not QUITE yet !
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,630 Likes: 7
Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,630 Likes: 7 |
Thank you for your post. I couldn't agree more.  One Capitalist Pig to another
We all like to think of ourselves as rugged individualists. But when push comes to shove most of us are sheep who do what we are told. Worst of all, a lot of us become unpaid agents of whoever is controlling the agenda by enforcing the current dogma on the few rugged individualists who actually exist.
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Re: not QUITE yet !
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 291
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 291 |
Quote:
Sorry Phil but this was still sitting in my craw!...
Quote:
If you are the only one making a part, cant you charge whatever you want?...(within reason obviously)
NO!!! you cant!!!
Why is it that those who are NOT in business think that those who are (particularly the small specialty businesses) are off screwing the customer...but that the BIG business is offering a cheaper product so they must not be....
I had watched this from it's innocent begining to it's bitter end, and remained quiet but some of the implyed and straight forwardly stated comments were to much...
Ok here goes...
I'm in a business that has maybe 5 competitors across the USA...we are a HIGHLY specialized producer...our customer base is VERY limited and THEY are possibly aware of two of my competitors...due to the nature of the business and the remote locations of the competition...we all run virtually solo in our respective market areas…shipping costs would make any gains in price prohibitive to do business with my competitors...if your in MY area...so in short I HAVE LITTLE OR NO COMPETITION...
According to your postulation I can therefore charge what ever I want (within reason as you put it) BULLSH!T !!!!
I would have retired by now were that true...
I can charge only what the market will allow...yes I have no competition, however my customers are not total fking morons and they only have so much $ to spend...they know when they're being screwed (and quite frankly so do we).
To imply that, because you're the only player so you can charge anything you want, might work in a Mad Max movie selling water or gasoline...but in the real world it doesn't quite cut it...most especially with the small businessman...
There are jobs I have to quote at a break even or even a loss, just to keep the doors open and my employees working…I’m not making a single penny, but I am still open and my guys still have work, and perhaps next month we’ll turn a profit…perhaps that job I just took a bath on will blossom, and the next time they order I might do OK…I got NO COMPETITION so WHERE’S my HUGE PROFITS!!! According to your theory I should be rolling in it and using 100 dollar bills to light $50.00 Cuban cigars…Your right when you say you know nothing about the business side…and it shows.
The bigger companies that you are asking to get involved “because they will keep the prices down…Brilliant!!! Oh there you are right, they WILL keep the cost down…and soon they will drive the little guy out…then there is no competition for the big guy…they have MASSIVE buying power and with power comes abuse…talk to any vendor that deals with Wall Mart and ask them how olde Wally world is to deal with…They are total and complete jackasses and they demand their price and if you can’t meet it tough sh!t, they will go elsewhere to get it…quality HUH!! they could care less, they are after the $$$ and the bottom line…if some company is making jeans in China for less $$$ then that’s where their jeans come from…don't like that go buy your jeans somewhere else...oh you can't to bad! Customer service…yeah sure go tell the President of Wally world that you got an issue…see how far you get….
I’ll GLADLY pay more for a part from a smaller vendor over a similar part from a big conglomerate some where IN A HEART BEAT!!! Because first he actually gives a Sh!t about his product, and me as his customer…and because of that I might pay more but I GET more…
One of the vendors here, you know those robber barons, well I had issues with two parts from them, one I broke (because of MY STUPID move) the other I had an issue with MONTHS after the purchase…upon inquiring about the one I had issues with, I MENTIONED the other which I SCREWED up, and why I thought it happened…I was told to return them BOTH…and they were BOTH replaced…now one I got within days…The one I broke…the other took MONTHS…yep MONTHS…I was told that there were issues with the supplier…so I waited…and it came….and it cost me ZILCH…both of these issues could have been easily ignored or I could have been told that they were WAY past any reasonable warrantee but instead I got SERVICE…
And THAT is why I gladly will pay a little more…the profit margin’s that the big guys work on is miniscule at best why??? Well since your business acumen is so bad I’ll tell you…volume…you see if you make one percent on a ten million dollars in sales…that’s a 100,000 in profit…but if you make 30% of 50,000 in sales that’s only 15,000….hardly retiring to the Islands on that are we….and THEIR COSTS are MORE so the reality of a 30% margin is crap…they NEED to make more because they sell so little…yet the market often will not bear what they need to make…
This is why I buy my parts from my dealer, will I pay less at bike bandit, or some other super center… you bet I will…but my dealer is a local guy, and YES he has a face and I HAVE broken bread with him….but you know what …HE has broken BREAD with ME and I have a face TOO…and that is something you just can’t put a price tag on…some of my best customers know they can ask for the seemingly impossible and we will do what ever we can for them, so that their customers are happy…they didn’t get gouged, or taken advantage of because I’m the only game in town…but we have a reciprocal understanding…we are in business we need to make $$$ and fair is fair…and in return for that understanding, we offer the best possible product we can and the best service we can.
Big guys purchase plating cheaper because they order more…period. They walk in and say I got an order for 100000 gismos and I’ll pay you this to plate them…if you can perform I’ll order X more next month…if you don’t like it we’ll go to Johnny and see if he’ll do it…soon enough the little guy shows up with a 100 part order for the SAME PARTS and now they have to WAIT in a CUE to be serviced and then the price per part is much higher…Now little guy has to mark up his price and pass it on to you…but big guy, well he has to mark it up to…but he doesn’t need to mark it near as much AND he didn’t pay anywhere as much, to begin with…
So if you’re thinking that you were just asking a simple question about supply and demand you are mistaken…more suppliers DOES NOT equate to better! It often might seem that way at first but in the end it actually means you get a lost in the shuffle forced to purchase inferior product and with no recourse…Go find that little do-dad that you need, and the local hardware store always had, at Home Depot…and wait till they tell you that they don’t move enough of them to stock them….then tell me again how bigger is better cause it makes things cheaper…
The fact that you premise your statement with I’m only saying I think more suppliers would be better…is a bogus misconception more does NOT always mean better it just means more…and soon they are competing amongst each other for your business…and that starts a price war…but to cut costs and stay competitive they have to cut corners, and soon quality is crap…but H3LL You are paying less…then, suppliers (without deep pockets) start to drop out of the chain…but you still get you cheap parts and you have to go to Mega Mart to buy them, because Joes parts isn’t there anymore, but Mega Mart doesn’t carry everything you need, so you get cheap crap and only the cheap crap that everyone else wants!
You original statement of “If you are the only one making a part, cant you charge whatever you want?...(within reason obviously)â€Â
Just Highlights the fact that you do indeed have NO understanding of business! I have no issue with anyone wanting more to select from…but your desires seem to be based upon faulty logic.
And if you really did understand business then you never would have asked (or implied) the question to begin with.
WOW!
Best looking black girl around!
2004 SM-spokes, solo seat, lowered rear, 14 in apes, bobber rear fender, no front fender. Flat black all the way around.
Jeff
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Re: not QUITE yet !
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 224
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 224 |
Good post, Rob. I don't shop at Wal-Mart anymore NOT because they are cruel abusive capitalists or anything like that, but because I know they convince some manufacturers (especially electronics) to make "special" runs of a product just for Wal-Mart with cheaper parts just so they can sell to Wal-Mart for their demanded price. So you may THINK that same LCD screen is a lot cheaper at Wal-Mart, but it could really be a company's cheap knock-off of its own product.
I guess it all boils down to you get what you pay for.
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Re: not QUITE yet !
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 319
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Joined: Jul 2007
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Excellant post Rob! Glad to see Broken got shut down on this, it was getting ridiculous.
'07 America
www.patriotguard.org
"If you're not living on the edge...........You're taking up too much space!
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Re: not QUITE yet !
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 110
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Rob, well done. Relevant to my world also. 
Steve
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Re: not QUITE yet !
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,606 Likes: 2
Loquacious
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OP
Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,606 Likes: 2 |
Well in all fairness to Broken, he did write me a pm and was very apologetic to everyone in it...it seems that he chose his words very poorly in order to make his basic point..."more manufactures of some custom parts for our bike would be cool for all of us" his point was NOT to take a shot any of those vendors that already do supply them...but it ended up that he did take a shot (intentional or not) and well it went down hill fast from there! I agree, I would like to find more parts for my bike and for less $$$... and certainly a less scrupoulus person could take advantage of us...but only for a short time...and our vendors are anything but crooked or underhanded...it got all out of hand and well...but it's over now and I think I made it clear how I feel so...."move along people nothing to see here"
THE VOICE OF REASON
per: Stewart
AF&AM/Shriner/Scoutmaster
130/45 TBS 2shim SS Uni 18/42
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Re: not QUITE yet !
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 224
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 224 |
Quote:
Well in all fairness to Broken, he did write me a pm and was very apologetic to everyone in it...it seems that he chose his words very poorly in order to make his basic point..."more manufactures of some custom parts for our bike would be cool for all of us" his point was NOT to take a shot any of those vendors that already do supply them...but it ended up that he did take a shot (intentional or not) and well it went down hill fast from there! I agree, I would like to find more parts for my bike and for less $$$... and certainly a less scrupoulus person could take advantage of us...but only for a short time...and our vendors are anything but crooked or underhanded...it got all out of hand and well...but it's over now and I think I made it clear how I feel so...."move along people nothing to see here"
Classy!
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Re: not QUITE yet !
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,099
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,099 |
Let's just let the horse get up, and walk away.
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Re: not QUITE yet !
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,195 Likes: 56
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,195 Likes: 56 |
I have met him in person and nice guy, I enjoyed the day fixing his bike and hanging with him.He has tried to pay me in different ways for the repair.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: not QUITE yet !
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,689 Likes: 21
Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,689 Likes: 21 |
You guys are way too sensitive. A consumer is allowed to want cheaper and is allowed to complain if they think things are too high. Where is it written you can't complain about prices? Well,yes you can. I think some prices are outrageous on many items and will not be bullied into thinking otherwise. I would love to see more manufacturing and more competition. I would also love to see Triumph get in the act for goodness sakes. Brent stuck up for himself, but he doesn't need to. Approval of his products and service turns into money. When he has no sales he will know he is too high. If he has good sales at those rates good for him, he can't please everyone and shouldn't try. The consumer should never care about the trials and tribulations of the manufacturer. Oh, poor GM I think I will pay them an extra $1,000 bucks for that car with all the controls and tariffs and all. Everybody was a little guy fighting the big guy once. Dell started in a garage fighting the pricing of HP and Compaq! Poor Dell. Competition is good. Fierce competition is better. Trade imbalance is bad, very bad. Rob, you picked your business. I am sorry its not working out for you. You are right, you can't charge what you want, you can only charge what the market will stand. If I make the best widget in the world it is only worth what somebody will pay. If I make the only one it is still only worth what somebody will pay but you make much more money per unit don't you. This appears to be a misunderstanding that has gone way too far  or maybe not far enough. Have at it folks! Cleanup on isle 6!
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
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Re: not QUITE yet !
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 730
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 730 |
Crap, here we go again...
Let my dying thought be that every mile was fun and let my tombstone read,"They never made one fast enough for me."
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Re: not QUITE yet !
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,204
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,204 |
Can't we all just get along?......ANGELIS
1200CC BIG BORE, W/WISECO PISTONS,.250 STROKED CRANK, PORTED/POLISHED HEADS AND LARGER VALVES, CUSTOM WELDED EXHUAST, DUAL 42MM MIKUNI CARBS.
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Re: not QUITE yet !
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825
"Lighten up, Francis."
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"Lighten up, Francis."
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 18,825 |
You should know the answer to that by now!
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