Bonneville America Forums Forums Technical Forums Performance Mods NH DYNOS (finally)

we all paid $50.00 each for a baseline run and recomendations...(this will vary from place to place and location depending upon the local ecconomics...if I drop my bike off and tell him to dynotune it...it's between $200.00 and $300.00 (depending upon a bunch of variables carbs/how many...EFI and so on...but THEY will do all the jeting, needle, shiming work and give it back to you tuned...

Hey Mike,
You're not from CT are you?

Anyway, I'm no expert, but I don't think you're gonna get
more power, and better mpg, at the same time.

Bucky will prob'ly chime in to prove me wrong.

Uncle Charlie

Oldroadie,

John ? Big Poppy

Bike: 06 TBA, carbs: Stock, Pilots tested 155 droppped down to 152.5

My only question is why my bike is 10hp less than everyone elses.

Like Roger told everyone it is not HP it is rideability.

One thing for sure mine was the loudest.

nope you actually CAN get more power and better MPG...in fact you SHOULD get more power and better MPG

in short if you free up the breathing of the engine IE pipes, air intake...the motor has to work LESS hard to produce more power


but at some point it is a diminishing return and sooner or later you will modify to the point of consumeing more fule

Well, I said I give an update on the 100 hp Thruxton:


Okay- Saw Tony today at Eurosport and got the scoop. The bike is actually running around town here in Fort Worth. It was a 988 kit with custom megacycle cams, Shim under bucket, 2 over valves, head work, custom crank, 41.5 Kehien carbs, 2 into 1 D&D exhaust, and custom ignition. $8k total in motor work. turned out to be an 1100+ cc motor.

Tony said that 0-4k rpm the bike made stock power. 4-6k it makes a little better than stock power. From 6-9k (with the new ignition it red lines at 9250 RPM) it tears your arms off. 105 RWHP- yes, at the tire. He said it's doable, but isn't real street friendly, but does haul butt. It has full upgraded suspensions, wide rear tire (Tony has 'em custom made)and a ton of other stuff. A true $20k $8000 dollar bike.

I have no reason to doubt him. In fact he has, sitting on the showroom floor, a turbo Rocket III with a Jarden full exhaust (block back), programmer for the turbo mapping, and a custom made intake for the EFI.

No I'am a little SW of you guys ! Thanks for the info. One day I will put her on a dyno. I do agree the more efficently an engine runs the fuel mileage should be better.

I have a dumb question, since this was a rear wheel hp dyno and there was some concern about Arsnltim's unexpected hp. does it make a difference with the sizes of your sprockets. 16 tooth, 17 tooth etc. if so, spreadsheet should list it. But then again I never dyno'd anything before.

mike

Dumb or not - I asked my Dyno operator the same question and his answer was "No,it does not make any difference, not the which gear is used either. Most commen is to use the 4th gear since you can get a fairly stable and long enough run but you would get the same result with other gear ratios". That was what he said and I tend to belive it.
Regards
Hasse

Thanks Hasse, I never researched the dyno yet and never understood the theory of it. but I did know you could get more power to the road by shifting down or changing the gear ratio such as sprocket sizes. they must take it all into account when they do it.


mike

The gear ratios, sprockets, etc. do not affect the actual horsepower available. They control how you use it.

Ok... Here is my DYNO run after I did the following...

Removed AI
Installed TOR Shorts
Installed Freak w/160 jets (from NewSpeedMaster.com)

As you will see... not good.

The plan is to get TBS needles and 150 jets... The pilots are stock and the mix has not been adjusted...

Wondering if most will agree with approach... I am planning on another DYNO run after those adjustments.

Needed to post the DYNO Chart

Ralph, I'd try going with much smaller main jets. Maybe 140's (check Pat's jetting calculator). I don't have the freak kit, but found that with a uni filter, drilled airbox, and TBs needles (1 shim) my bike ran best with 125 mains. Other people on the board run 130's to 135's with this setup, but the difference is they are running Bubs, or gutted stock pipes, not the TORs which do not seem to flow as well. TOR's are quieter though.

Since you have the freak, and short TORs, a slightly unusual combo, I'd look at what others who run more open pipes are using and then go a step or two smaller.

According to the Jet Calculator I should be running 151.5 mains. Changing to a more free flowing exhaust only increases that number. Looks like the FREAK provides a bunch more air than UNI since those calc out to 121.5. Big Diff.

Anyway as my signature states. I have FREAK/150Mains/TOR Shorts(STOCK)/AI OUT/Stock Pilots(42)/unturned screws. I will be turning them soon. I just purchased the CARBTUNE II so I will be mucking around when that shows up.

Maybe I am just a bit paranoid about all of this since I am changing so many things...

PLus I am a Perfomance Analyst on computer systems so the DYNO I have is driving me crazy Refer to NH DYNOS (finally)

Hopefully if you re-run the bike on the dyno with the 150's you will get better results. How does it feel on the street? I am interested since I may consider the freak kit, if a good setup can be found that works with the short TORs. As much as I like performance, I really don't want a significantly louder pipe and up until now I have thought that the short TORs were the limiting factor for my setup.

I will let you know... I am planning on seeing the DYNO again very soon. The bike moves though.. I was cruisin on the parkway this weekend at 80 - 85 and still had pleanty of get out of the way power... the upper end feels nice. Its the 3000 - 3800 area that I am displeased with... It feels hesitant in that range but when you romp on it....She flys.... Also,, I have been thinking about Epco or ThunderBike pipes... May wait on that purchase till next year but I am sure that will change everything

at 80-85 you can still downshift if needed

Frank

I have a feeling there is a lot to riding these bikes that I just dont know yet.

all you need to know is 2nd is good till about 60, 3rd gear is good till about 80, then 4th till a tad over 100 (indicated).


Frank

I saw a post on trat.net that had before and after dyno runs
on a 883 Sportster, stock vs. $500 add on pipes,jets,air,etc.
I thought those things were supposed to make torque?
And forget about HP.
I'm happy with what I got!
Uncle Charlie

30, 60, 80, are the shift points I also use on my stock America gearing (17/42 teeth), based on rev limiter experience. These points work great for max acceleration. Since I don't have a tach, I just put a blue felt pen mark on the Speedo to know when to shift for max acceleration. I don't know about the shift into 5th, but I suppose that the stated 100mph might be about right.

Really cool, I rembember a thread here that listed dyno tuners by state. I really believe my bike needs a good tune up.

Does anyone know of a dyno bike tuner in Los Angeles/Southern CA area?

What is the average cost for dyno tuning your bike?

Dynojet is one brand out of X number of motorcycle dyno manufacturers

Here is their directory
http://www.dynojet.com/dyno_centers/motorcycle/index.aspx

For a basic dyno analysis, with no mechanical or tuning work performed, somewhere around $50 seems ball park. I suppose it could cost $75 or more due to market and availability conditions. If the operator was highly competent, I would be OK at $75, but that's just my slant on it.

It wouldn't hurt to talk to your local riders or riders groups and find out where the competent dyno operators are. A post at TRat to find a good dyno experience in your neighborhood may be useful too.

Thanks,
Now need to find my local rider group.

Here is something I never thought to ask. What is the size of the engines in these dyno runs? Particularly the ‘PERFECT DYNO’. the reason I ask is because my run, the crappy looking one, did not change much after I made the mods and then had a dyno jet guy check to make sure I didn’t screw it up too bad I have a stock engine for 06 TBA. The only mods I made are TOR pipes, FREAK, 150 mains, TBS needle(no shim).

He balanced the carbs, turned the screws and tightened the chain to fine tune. (he said a loose chain would give a wavey dyno chart…

Anyway… the chart looks pretty much the same except smoother and a bit more hp. I will upload it once I scan it…

I'm running a 790...

Just looking at your set up I got to think you're restricting yourself with the TOR's...and you could be a tad rich...

Ok... I see... But I still want to get the same lines that your dyno has... I dont get why I am not making power in the lower end as quickly... It a gradual increase...

Anyway... Here is the new DYNO....

[image]http://www.bonnevilleamerica.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=8450&cat=500[/image]

missed some stuff...

Quote:

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Where's the air/fuel ratio chart?

just a suggestion here. There are many flavors of the TOR pipes. some have baffles, some have none. Some have some dampening material behind a screen, some don't.

Perhaps you have a set that has some of the baffles or other restriction. The TOR's on Pats jetting calculator are for those that are open, I believe.

Look in your pipes with a flashlight. If you cannot see all the way to the header turn, I'd look at using Pat's calculator with the stock pipe and 2 baffles out.

Also, post the AF from the dyno. That will tell a lot. I'm running drag pipes and 45/150/TBS w 2 shims and I'm lean in the middle. From what I saw on the first AF post, you are WAAAAYYYY rich.

Bucky gave a very accurate diagnosis, good on ya Buckster!

Get the TBS needles out, put in stock needles with 2 shims, take the TOR's off and put on some real pipes or gut the TOR's.
You should be producing low ti mid 60s in HP and about 50 Torque with your setup.

Hey Guys... Thanks for the input... First... The DYNO guy did not give me my AF numbers. I thought that odd but since I am new at this I figured maybe some do and some dont... Anyway... I broke down and bought a set of BUB slash cuts. The TORS I have are open all the way through but have what appears to be "dampening material behind a screen". I totally understand the WAAAAAAAY rich situation which is why I am hoping the BUBS will lean it out a bit. I have the 150s and TBS still in. I see you are running 45 pilots... I still have the stock pilots which I believe to be 42s. The BUBs should be here tomorrow. I will fill you on any change in the ride.. I dont know when I am gonna get to another DYNO but this time it needs to be with someone who will work with me on this and help tune it.... Plus give me a complete report

Hey Ralph, It so happens I've got a Freak ready to be put in but what's interesting about your results for me is, I would have had the same setup. In other words, your results would probably reflect similarly to mine if I had a dyno done.

So now I'm convinced that in the first instance I'll have to at least take out a baffle or two from my long Tors. BTW, my tors are the "baffle can be seen 12" in from the end" variety

So what I'm saying is, thanks for asking about you dyno results cos it gives me advice too on what I should do.

Ok... The BUBS showed up and went on very nicely... THEY SOUND GREAT!!!. However, Looks like I am back to the drawing board for tuning as I DO feel more power but it sluffs off around 3/4 to WOT. Looks like I will try the stock needles again and maybe a rejet... but before all of that... A trip to the DYNO... Still looking for a good one in the Tri-state area if anyone has had a good experience with someone specific.

Okay. So you got good pipes now. This may help you with your baseline. I've had some time on my hands, so I've been messing with the cabs again. I'm running some tuned drag pipes with fishtails(FYI) and K&N filters (completely open). I just swapped out TBS w/2 shims for the stock needles w/2 shims, and it makes power quicker in the band. I'm set up as 45/155/stock needles w/2 shims on an 06 SM, and it comes on hard at WOT in the 5-7k RPM range.

Actually, that is what got me messing around with the carbs again. It was really lackadaisical until 5k RPM, then it hit a power surge. I thought is was over fueling (rich) in the mid range, so I took out the one shim on the TBS needles. well, it got worse. Went back in and put 2 shims on the TBS needles; whoa baby. That's much better. Same day, I read a post from Dinqua about pitching the TBS and going to stock, looked at some side-by-side photos of the TBS and stock SM needle, and the stock SM needles are shorter, so, theoritecially, they should open up sooner-like TBS w/3 shims (I know they are tapered different and the 3rd shim adds weight yada, yada, yada), but, none the less, this set up with the stock needles and 2 shims brings the power quicker in the RPM band than the TBS w/2 shims did. It is noticeable. I'll be swapping to 160's in the next few weeks just to experiment and validate, but I expect it to be too far rich (I suspect that I'm a step too rich now with 155's), and if that is too far, I'll retreat to 152's. I may try 42's while the 160's are there, just for the what if factor. Remember... this all works as a system, but perhaps this can be a baseline for you.

been a while since the last post so I figured 'why not' on thanksgiving

after riding a bit with the bubs my right manifild is turning gold... so I am guessing I am a little lean on that side. I am thinking about going to 152 or 155 mains... I also ordered 45 and 48 pilots even though I dont know what I might do with them The more I learn the more I realize that I have a load of testing infront of me.... More to come....

gold is ok, blue is when its way to hot. i wouldnt worry about it
Frank