 NH DYNOS (finally)
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Complete Newb
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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Well, I think this proves it, the Black/ Sky blue Speedmasters are the fastest...
Unless you're willing to spend an obscene amount of money on mods
Let my dying thought be that every mile was fun and let my tombstone read,"They never made one fast enough for me."
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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Loquacious
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yeah but check out charlie and I...our #s are PDG and just pipe and jets...not even a freak...oh and we ride RED bikes
THE VOICE OF REASON
per: Stewart
AF&AM/Shriner/Scoutmaster
130/45 TBS 2shim SS Uni 18/42
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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ok, ok, the red bikes are second fastest 
Let my dying thought be that every mile was fun and let my tombstone read,"They never made one fast enough for me."
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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Loquacious
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Good job Rob!
We'll drag for beers in NY!
Last guy in buys the beer!
Uncle Charlie
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Let my dying thought be that every mile was fun and let my tombstone read,"They never made one fast enough for me."
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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gonna havta do something about my dyno. come spring it will look a bit different
Frank
(Former)05 BA tbike pipes, ai removed, Freak, mikuni hsr 42's, 904, ported/polished head, 1mm oversized valves
NOW-2010 silver and black tbird
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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Wow nice numbers guys. Gotta love the great torque curves of these motors.
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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3/4 Throttle
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3/4 Throttle
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Those numbers are pretty impressive, you are not far behind Pat and correct me if I am wrong you are not running a big bore or any other major mods. Great Numbers! I need to get mine dyno'd to see what kind of numbers she can pull. 
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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Worn Saddle
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They are all posted here as well in full sized pdf files: New Hampshire Dyno Runs
Last edited by Dinqua; 08/11/2007 8:43 AM.
A word to the wise is not necessary. It is the stupid ones who need the advice.
Pat
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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Hey Pat, is there anything you would do to correct your weird spikes and dips under 4K rpms? Also, can you FEEL them when you ride? Just curious...
Not you fat Jesus!
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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Loquacious
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Since Pat is not online at the moment...let me take this one...
Those spikes were more a function of the dyno guy tweeking with the throtle and less a function of the way pats bike was running...
I think he mis shifted...or possibly let it run down to low cause he almost stalled the bike when it was on the machine...thus the big dip...then smoother curve
THE VOICE OF REASON
per: Stewart
AF&AM/Shriner/Scoutmaster
130/45 TBS 2shim SS Uni 18/42
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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plus pat if pig rich
Frank
(Former)05 BA tbike pipes, ai removed, Freak, mikuni hsr 42's, 904, ported/polished head, 1mm oversized valves
NOW-2010 silver and black tbird
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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Note the torque numbers with Pat's big bore runs
Schweet
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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Check Pants
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Are any of the above bikes running an 865cc or are they all 790cc (except PAts bike of course)?
SOLD: 07 Black BA, 39mm FCRs, TPUSA stage 1 head, TPUSA 813 cams, TPUSA 10.8:1 pistons, TTP #3 igniter, Specialty Spares Long Cannons, Tsukayu Hard Bags. 82HP/55tq
NEW: 19 Goldwing Tour DCT
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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Worn Saddle
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Rob,
Are you going to drop one main jet size and keep your pilots? Or, are you planning on lowering both one size?
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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Dyno talk http://www.rc51.org/dynotuning.htmWorth a read to help interpret the results and alternate tunings. "The majority of tuning all comes down to the Air Fuel ratio. Optimum power is generally around 12.6:1 while the stoichiometric value for a gasoline burning engine is about 14.6:1 for a good compromise of performance & mileage while Dynojet themselves generally target 13.2:1 when they build their own maps." "Exhaust dynamics is a tricky business, but if the flow is improved & the reversion waves are tuned properly then more fuel can be added & the more fuel you have the more power you get. If you have to remove fuel due to a poor flow design or the reversion waves are kicking back to the cylinder & meeting the next exhaust pulse at any point in the rev range then you simply are not going to get good power gains at that point." If we could find pipes that would ideally scavenge the exhaust flow by introducing a low pressure zone along the way, or at the least, would not offer pressure backlash against the exhaust cycles, it's all downhill from there to maximize HP or find your desired balance of HP vs. torque via jets & needles et al. I'm not clear which pipes those are, or if they even exist for our bikes. At $300 to $700 a pop for aftermarket pipes, I'm not going to the trial and error method to find them. Got mouths to feed. To the dismay of many seeking HP above all, I'm going to de-tune mine a little further and bring the MPGs back up to 50 MPG. At my current 13.2:1 offering 40 MPG, I apparently have plenty of head room to cut the fuel back a bit and still not exceed the magic threshold of 14.6:1 (or 14.7:1, depending upon which method you desire.) What can I tell ya - I'm an old fart with a tight wallet. Footnote: RJS runs a Dynojet brand unit, with the Dynojet software mapping.
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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Worn Saddle
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My other question is "was everybody running the same octane rating" since that also skews the A/F ratio result?
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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Loquacious
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I was told that my pilot circuit and my needles were fine but the my main was WAY to rich (perhaps as much as 2 sizes) BUT as I intend to drill out the airbox I knew I would be rich...so I may only need drill and drop 1 size (to a 132.5 instead of 130'S)
THE VOICE OF REASON
per: Stewart
AF&AM/Shriner/Scoutmaster
130/45 TBS 2shim SS Uni 18/42
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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I will re dyno after the mods and compare results
THE VOICE OF REASON
per: Stewart
AF&AM/Shriner/Scoutmaster
130/45 TBS 2shim SS Uni 18/42
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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Quote:
Are any of the above bikes running an 865cc or are they all 790cc (except PAts bike of course)?
This is the one thing we did not address. I believe pre 2007 the Speedmaster is an 865 cc and the America is 790cc. So Pat's big bore would only give him an extra 39 cc's over a stock Speedmaster while it would give him 114 over the America. It also gives the stock Speedmaster 75 cc's over the America. Definitely something to address as far as hp and torque gains with any mod's.
My mind and body are still out of tune
I hope they run into each other real soon "
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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I think they were all 790s (the non big bore guys).
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Let my dying thought be that every mile was fun and let my tombstone read,"They never made one fast enough for me."
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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the big bore is more for compression that cc's, and an added bonus is you get a WAY stornger forged piston
Frank
(Former)05 BA tbike pipes, ai removed, Freak, mikuni hsr 42's, 904, ported/polished head, 1mm oversized valves
NOW-2010 silver and black tbird
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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Besides being able to tell the third one down is an 865 because of the year SM you can also easily tell by the numbers. So far it seems to be easier with basic mods to get hp gains with the 790.
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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Oil Expert
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Finally some real results showing that even modest changes can equate to some impressive gains. What would be really good though is to know Exactly what mods had been done to each bike as some of these details have been left out? A table for instance comparing all these details would be really valuable to us HP deprived aspirants  . Then as different mods are made and a dyno done, these results can be added to the table for all to paw over. Just a suggestion but for me these details would be really interesting 
Last edited by Staffo; 08/13/2007 9:36 PM.
Staintune Pipes, K&N Pods, 45 pilots, TBS needles and 145 mains.
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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Big Bore
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Big Bore
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That's an excellent idea. Hey Pat, would you consider hosting spreadsheet? I think this thread needs to 'stick' around for a bit...
"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity" - Robert Heinlein
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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phil, when you gonna get yours dynoed?
Frank
(Former)05 BA tbike pipes, ai removed, Freak, mikuni hsr 42's, 904, ported/polished head, 1mm oversized valves
NOW-2010 silver and black tbird
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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Big Bore
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Big Bore
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Everyone around here wants $100 a pop so my next best is down in south Miami (I have two Dynojet coupons for free runs). Problem is time. I have none. I will get there, I promise.
"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity" - Robert Heinlein
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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I wouldn't mind helping out here with updating a spreadsheet or table, in fact I've done a simple one already and scanned it as a Jpeg but it doesn't come out clear enough to read.  Is there any way to upload a file onto this site cos I don't know how?
Last edited by Staffo; 08/15/2007 7:35 PM.
Staintune Pipes, K&N Pods, 45 pilots, TBS needles and 145 mains.
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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Learned Hand
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John,
Please put the bike type on the spreadsheet, too.
2002 Bandit 1200/ GSXR cams/ 1277 BB Kit/ Holeshot header and can/ 38mm flatslides/ a good head/lotsa hp/lotsa tq- lots of rear tires...
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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All I can offer is more specs on my bike:
03 TBA 790
Bubs slash cuts
UNI, no snorkle
45 pilots, stock needles, 1 shim, 135 mains
Wrong HD type thunbscrews (set too rich?)
I think I can fix my rich at idle condition by changing
the thumbscrews to Brent's new correctly tapered ones,
and re-adjusting/balancing the carbs.
Anyway, this dyno experience confirmed my seat of the pants
feeling that my bike pulls pretty good. It doesn't get good
mpg, but if I wanted fuel economy, I'd be riding a moped!
Uncle Charlie
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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Big Bore
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Nice format John. I'd like to see motor size also. No file uploads here but we just need someone with a site to host it.... Uh, Pat??? 
"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity" - Robert Heinlein
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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Loquacious
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all that hark work & cash & Uncle Pat only has 70 ponies?
we should do this every weekend!
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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Worn Saddle
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Send it to me and let me convert it to a table and I can set up a link... 
Last edited by oldroadie; 08/16/2007 6:41 AM.
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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Oil Expert
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Ed, I've just sent the table which I've modified again to you're personal email address. thanks for that  Anyone who's detail appear may / will need to send their full details to Ed so he can fill in the gaps eg Type of bike and motor size etc 
Last edited by Staffo; 08/15/2007 9:43 PM.
Staintune Pipes, K&N Pods, 45 pilots, TBS needles and 145 mains.
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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Loquacious
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Bah! Horsepower Shmorsepower -- real men tune for torque  On a more serious note, here's a primer on how to determine optimum shift points for a given torque curve http://www.allpar.com/eek/hp-vs-torque.html; Horsepower needs to be where you can get at it (within a viable RPM range) for it to be most useful. For the bikes tuned to peak out their HP at the high revs, your general rule of thumb may be to redline it in each gear if a big ol' twin sidles up to you at the stop light and gives you a cheesy grin. I'd have to run the numbers to verify that though.
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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Quote:
Bah! Horsepower Shmorsepower -- real men tune for torque
We'll drag for beers at your birthday party!
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Loquacious
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Ha ha! I'll be seein' ya in my mirrors while you try to twist it up to 7,000. 
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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Worn Saddle
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Quote:
Anyone who's detail appear may / will need to send their full details to Ed so he can fill in the gaps eg Type of bike and motor size etc
I'll add any details that you want to share. 
Quote:
Bah! Horsepower Shmorsepower -- real men tune for torque
Alrighty, Pat, RobBA05, Charlie, and ArsnlTim have the real men angle covered and everyone else is pretty darn close...6 of the dynos are so close it's amazing.
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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I call BS on some of those #s. How can a guy get almost 70hp with debaffled pipes and airbox elim alone?
Answer? He can't, the dyno is no bueno.
There is no greater thrill than being shot at with no consequence. -Churchill
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Quote:
I call BS on some of those #s. How can a guy get almost 70hp with debaffled pipes and airbox elim alone?
Answer? He can't, the dyno is no bueno.
Don't think you're the only one with this thought. I've gone over and over in my head weather or not it was an accurate pull but here's the facts.
1) Every other Dyno run makes perfect sense so why would the dyno be wrong for 1 run out of 8 especially since I was not the first pull and I wasn't the last. (I was second)
2) The guy who ran the Dyno, Roger, uses his Dyno all the time. He takes it to Rallys, meetings, runs it in front of his shop. It's big business to him so the chances of him letting it fall into disrepair, slim to none.
3) Dynoing is what Roger does, ask any one who was there, the guy was really smart. It didn't matter if you were riding a Harley, a Ducati, a Triumph, or a snowmobile, if he could hook it up to his dyno he could tell you exactly what to do to your bike to make it run better (except Martin, his bike was running like it had EFI already )
So I'll go ahead and put this out, if anyone thinks my Dyno isn't correct send me one of those Dyno Jet coupons (I know someone somewhere has one that's collecting dust) and I'll be more than happy to go get my results confirmed but untill than we have to go by whats in writing because it's way more accurate than anyone's gut instinct, even my own and I ride the bike.
Last edited by ArsnlTim; 08/16/2007 9:16 PM.
Let my dying thought be that every mile was fun and let my tombstone read,"They never made one fast enough for me."
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Yup I got to agree with you there Tim...I was there I saw it....it does baffle...but the guy read my set up to a tee just by running the machine...he knew the ins and outs...and he nailed it! Like Pat said that day...some times you just get a machine that everything on it is right...and trust me if Pat byes it too...I am DEFINATELY not gonna question it!
THE VOICE OF REASON
per: Stewart
AF&AM/Shriner/Scoutmaster
130/45 TBS 2shim SS Uni 18/42
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well, take it to another dyno and see what happens, my guess is 10 less hp at least.
not trying to talk trash, I'm just saying a "stock" bike isn't capable of those #s
There is no greater thrill than being shot at with no consequence. -Churchill
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Who is doing the spreadsheet so I can send my numbers in on an 07 Speedmaster here in Syd Aus.
The more info the better.
Derek
2008 Black Speedmaster
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I said I'd have no problem with that, the problem I do have is paying for it. Not that $70-$100 is too rich for me it just that I've already paid once and while it seems high to me too, facts are facts and Dynos are designed to give accurate readings so I can think of a lot better places to stick that kind of money (like progressive fork springs) than to settle an argument. So if someone has a Dyno Jet coupon sitting around collecting dust, please send it to me so we can all see if it was acurate or not. Until someone is willing to send me one, I'm not trying to talk trash either, we'll have to go with the results from the very expensive, highly calibrated, seemingly accurate in every other instance machine that was run by a very skilled operator and not by one person who wasn't there saying it's imposible.
Last edited by ArsnlTim; 08/16/2007 9:51 PM.
Let my dying thought be that every mile was fun and let my tombstone read,"They never made one fast enough for me."
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Quote:
not trying to talk trash, I'm just saying a "stock" bike isn't capable of those #s
There wasn't a stock bike in any of the above runs.
The 68 HP Speedmaster was running 160 mains. My bike was perhaps the closest to stock, and gave up nearly exactly what the factory specs for torque and HP
Our carbs are only capable of a finite amount of air via their naturally aspirated deign and the constant air induction volume of our non variable intake valves. Increasing HP is as easy as pouring the fuel to the coals. One can reach a maximum potential HP at an air to fuel ratio of 12.6:1 -- Not impossible or difficult to achieve. The only potential drawback is a loss of torque, and the fact that the HP gain is at the highest RPMs. Every fuel rich bike shown (except Pat's) is running 50 HP max until they get above 6000 RPMs.
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by stock I mean internals
There is no greater thrill than being shot at with no consequence. -Churchill
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I just posted in the lounge looking for someone who has a dynojet coupon they don't plan on using that they wouldn't mind sending to me so we can check the results. If I do get one, my question is, after the dyno run, roger told me that I should go one size down on my main jets, put 2 shims on my needles, and go 1/4 to 1/2 turns leaner on my mixture screws. I've done all that. If I do manage to get my hands on a coupon would everyone like to see my bike as it is now and if it's close to where it was we can agree waether it was accurate or not or would everyone like me to go back to my NH Rally settings (pre dyno) so we'll know exactly how accurate it was?
Last edited by ArsnlTim; 08/16/2007 10:22 PM.
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One could get upset to spent $X,XXX on a big bore campaign, then see these HP numbers, but the big bore's true value is shown in it's torque curve, and the viable performance on road.
I drove a 300 HP truck that would outrun EVERY 350 HP truck on the road, as the 300 had much more torque early on, as the manufacturer had widened the cylinder bore, yet shortened the stroke.
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I wish we had chipped in and put Bill's stock bike on as a baseline.
I'm confident in the dyno #'s anyway. And my hp curve crosses
50 @5500 rpm.
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Loquacious
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i thought is was bogus also. i was talkign to pat and we both looked at eachother when we saw those numbers. that is what made us dyno ours. as you can see we both dynoed less than expected so maybe he just has one of those bikes. who knows.
Frank
(Former)05 BA tbike pipes, ai removed, Freak, mikuni hsr 42's, 904, ported/polished head, 1mm oversized valves
NOW-2010 silver and black tbird
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I think we're forgetting the most important aspect of my bike as opposed to everyone else... I'm using Suzuki Oil
Let my dying thought be that every mile was fun and let my tombstone read,"They never made one fast enough for me."
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Big Bore
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Big Bore
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Crikey! That Suzuki oil again! Quote:
go one size down on my main jets, put 2 shims on my needles
To me, that is effectively the same as you have now mostly because of the taper of the stock needles (Ed's spreadsheet above does not mention TBS for you so I assume stock needles).
What did you go down to, 155s?
"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity" - Robert Heinlein
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Check Pants
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Check Pants
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So...knowing the following: 865 cc = 54hp@6750, 51ft.lb@4800790 cc = 61hp@7400, 44ft.lb@3500I dont see it impossible that an America or Speedy with the 790 motor could get up to about the 70hp/50ft.lb range. Especially if its getting the fuel and air needed. After looking at some other info: Specialty Spares claims 65 Dynod HP with their pipes (Iassume on a 790), UNI and jets. Thunderbike claims 68 Dynod HP (on a 790) with pipes. Sorry...no torq info from either. You get the point though. Whats really bugging me is that those of us with newer 865 cc bikes will only get minimal increases.  Thoughts anyone?
SOLD: 07 Black BA, 39mm FCRs, TPUSA stage 1 head, TPUSA 813 cams, TPUSA 10.8:1 pistons, TTP #3 igniter, Specialty Spares Long Cannons, Tsukayu Hard Bags. 82HP/55tq
NEW: 19 Goldwing Tour DCT
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Quote:
Quote:
go one size down on my main jets, put 2 shims on my needles
To me, that is effectively the same as you have now mostly because of the taper of the stock needles (Ed's spreadsheet above does not mention TBS for you so I assume stock needles).
What did you go down to, 155s?
I don't pretend to know a whole lot about how exactly the carbs work so if I'm way off base maybe someone like pat or bucky can back me up but from my understanding you're correct, it the same, or close to. If you look at my dyno sheet the air fuel mixture runs pretty much straight on the line but it starts high (leaning the mixture screws solved that) than it dips lean and runs back to the high side in the upper RPM range. By putting the shims on the needles it brings the entire line up and straightens it after the idle circut fixing the lean dip in the middle. Going down on the main jets brings the straightened line back down to the correct setting giving me a straight line all the way across the RPM range. Also since the mixture is straight all the way through the RPM range it fixes the fluxuations in the torque curve where the lean dip was. And again, thats just my understanding of how it works and I could be off base so if I'm wrong could someone smarter than me back me up
Let my dying thought be that every mile was fun and let my tombstone read,"They never made one fast enough for me."
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Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
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Tim, Regarding the A/F chart, above the line is lean, below the line is rich. Looks to me that when your carbs engage the main jets the bike runs a tad rich, then as the throttle opens it heads back to the lean side. I'm thinking down a size on the mains to adjust that 5K dip with a shim to richen the rpm zone where the pilots are working and you should be golden. The carb guru's will know better if this is correct (I suspect they might offer to skip the shim and increase the pilot instead)
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Big Bore
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Big Bore
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Hey Tim, If your numbers came in good with the changes and flattened the A/F, I'd say leave it!!
"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity" - Robert Heinlein
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Don't ax me - I make it up as I go along  Quote:
So...knowing the following:
865 cc = 54hp@6750, 51ft.lb@4800
790 cc = 61hp@7400, 44ft.lb@3500
I don't see it impossible that an America or Speedy with the 790 motor could get up to about the 70hp/50ft.lb range.
I agree. I imagine we gain 3 or 4 horses as soon as that stock pipe is opened up or changed. They're pretty well gagged off when in factory trim. See also - sewing machine on 2 wheels factor on the ride home from the dealer. I remember pulling into the driveway, and wife and daughter, who don't know a motorcycle from an aircraft carrier remarked something like: "That's a great looking bike, but it sounds like, uh, a Waring blender, electric drill, sewing machine..."
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Quote:
Hey Tim,
If your numbers came in good with the changes and flattened the A/F, I'd say leave it!!
The run thats posted is pre changes, it was with the jets that came with the freak and seat of the pants mixture screw adjusting. After the run roger gave his suggestions and I followed them to a tee, I haven't done another run to verify his accuracy yet but after I made the adjustments I could feel the difference in smoothness all the way through the RPM range.
Let my dying thought be that every mile was fun and let my tombstone read,"They never made one fast enough for me."
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Quote:
Tim,
Regarding the A/F chart, above the line is lean, below the line is rich. Looks to me that when your carbs engage the main jets the bike runs a tad rich, then as the throttle opens it heads back to the lean side. I'm thinking down a size on the mains to adjust that 5K dip with a shim to richen the rpm zone where the pilots are working and you should be golden. The carb guru's will know better if this is correct (I suspect they might offer to skip the shim and increase the pilot instead)
When Pat looked at the run his first thought was that the jets were fine, he had a little discussion with roger and then said that his suggestions made sense, I haven't really talked to pat too much since then but I think I may be spot on now.
Let my dying thought be that every mile was fun and let my tombstone read,"They never made one fast enough for me."
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Hello,
Just to ad to the discussion I like to report the following;
Last year I dynoed 65.14 Bhp/65.16 Nm torque. With original carbs (145 main/45 low), TBS pipes and a modified airbox. Today I have done a new dyno run with my new CR2 + Freak = 66.43 Bhp and 67.03 Nm torque.
Conclusion 1 - it is possible for a 790 engine to reach between 65 and 70 BHP with free flow pipes and any matching carb.
Conclusion 2 - A god modified airbox can match the Freek.
To go further I suppose you need porting the head, bigger valves, and/or a big bore kit.
Or a turbo.
Regards
Hasse
Hasse TBA -02 Pre-Fire Cardinal Red, Wiseco 904, Thunderbike pipes, Freak
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Yes, more support for the accuracy of "the machine" and not the accuracy of "sweatmachine"  sorry, I've been trying not to talk trash but the joke was there and I couldn't help myself
Let my dying thought be that every mile was fun and let my tombstone read,"They never made one fast enough for me."
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Looking at Rob05 and Martin's dyno plots, they are about 10HP apart. Is Rob 05 bike a 790 and Martin's 05 Speedmaster an 865? Rob used 135 main jets with Speciality Spares and Martin used 132 mains with gutted stock exhausts.
For several years I have had 130 mains, TBS needles, and 42 Pilots, unifilter with drilled airbox, no snorkels, and exaust mufflers with 2 baffles removed.
Last night I ordered 132 and 135 mains and 45 Pilots. My bike runs good now, but I want a little more power at the top end.
My two questions are:
1. Should I install the 132 mains only, or go straight to the 135s and should I mess with changing the Pilots at all.
2. Is there much difference in airflow with the stock mufflers minus two baffles and aftermarket pipes such as the Specialty Spares?
I know that Pat's jetting calculator says 129.5 is optimum, but that calculator was built before these dyno runs that you just got.
Thanks in advance for your opinions.
--Tom
02 TBA; 130 mains; TBS; Nology Coils&Wires;Unifilter/opened Airbox; -AI/snorkels; -2 baffles;Progressive 440s & Springs
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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look at my #'s I'm pig rich!!
But I knew that I would be rich going in, I had jetted for a drilled air box (which I had'nt/have'nt done yet)
But based upon my dyno...I intend to drop to 130's, drill the air box, and add one shim to get rid of that 'off the chart' (litterally!!) drop
THE VOICE OF REASON
per: Stewart
AF&AM/Shriner/Scoutmaster
130/45 TBS 2shim SS Uni 18/42
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
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Quote:
look at my #'s I'm pig rich!!
But I knew that I would be rich going in, I had jetted for a drilled air box (which I had'nt/have'nt done yet)
But based upon my dyno...I intend to drop to 130's, drill the air box, and add one shim to get rid of that 'off the chart' (litterally!!) drop
I think our bike's are set up very much alike except for your TBS needles and looking at your dyno chart makes me want to go there... I also need to pull my carbs and look at the mains and see where I am.
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
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Thanks Rob. I will probably just go with the 132s then, instead of the 135s. I am having a little problem with the Internet just now so I can't recheck it, but as I remember, most people were running a little rich with their setups.
--Tom
02 TBA; 130 mains; TBS; Nology Coils&Wires;Unifilter/opened Airbox; -AI/snorkels; -2 baffles;Progressive 440s & Springs
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Oil Expert
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Oil Expert
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I started the table and sent it to OldRoadie who offered to create a link so that a table could be uploaded. So I guess unless Oldroadie has a problem with it, send your results to him. Just one further thing though, as these results need to be verified at least by a creditable dyno mob, just sending in figures isn't going to cut it amongst most who go to a lot of time, money and effort to achieve good resutls. So from my perspective unless the dyno chart is shown to all, the figure should not be put on the chart. Just my opinion but I doubt many will disagree  Oldroadie, can you confirm you don't mind being the contact to update this chart as I believe given the interest in these figures, you may be required to update it from time to time.
Staintune Pipes, K&N Pods, 45 pilots, TBS needles and 145 mains.
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Big Bore
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Big Bore
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Quote:
unless the dyno chart is shown to all, the figure should not be put on the chart
Excellent point and I would hope we don't see unverified data in the chart!
"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity" - Robert Heinlein
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Anybody know the altitude of where the dyno runs were made, as that has an affect on the air/fuel ratio also.
--Tom
02 TBA; 130 mains; TBS; Nology Coils&Wires;Unifilter/opened Airbox; -AI/snorkels; -2 baffles;Progressive 440s & Springs
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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prob a couple thousand feet above sea level. they were done in nashua NH
Frank
(Former)05 BA tbike pipes, ai removed, Freak, mikuni hsr 42's, 904, ported/polished head, 1mm oversized valves
NOW-2010 silver and black tbird
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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Loquacious
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Rj's Motor sports sits exactly 200 ft above sea level
THE VOICE OF REASON
per: Stewart
AF&AM/Shriner/Scoutmaster
130/45 TBS 2shim SS Uni 18/42
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
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Quote:
Oldroadie, can you confirm you don't mind being the contact to update this chart as I believe given the interest in these figures, you may be required to update it from time to time.
Not a problem, but since it's a picture instead of a doc I might wait until I get multiple entries.
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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(Former)05 BA tbike pipes, ai removed, Freak, mikuni hsr 42's, 904, ported/polished head, 1mm oversized valves
NOW-2010 silver and black tbird
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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Member
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Anyone know where there is a DYNO in Northern NJ or NYC?
Ralph Muro
'06' TBA / Tach / Freak / BUB Slash Cuts / TBS Needles with shims / 150 jets / 45 pilots / 440s / Rivco Risers / Corbin Solo / Dresser Bars / CHROME...CHROME...CHROME...
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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go to the dynojet website and you can find one on there
Frank
(Former)05 BA tbike pipes, ai removed, Freak, mikuni hsr 42's, 904, ported/polished head, 1mm oversized valves
NOW-2010 silver and black tbird
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Oil Expert
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Oil Expert
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Goodonya Ed
Staintune Pipes, K&N Pods, 45 pilots, TBS needles and 145 mains.
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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I saved them all as PDF's also if that helps?
THE VOICE OF REASON
per: Stewart
AF&AM/Shriner/Scoutmaster
130/45 TBS 2shim SS Uni 18/42
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
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Quote:
I saved them all as PDF's also if that helps?
Since I don't have the full on Adobe Acrobat editor I'd still have to "edit" them in Photoshop so it's really 6 of one/half dozen of the other...
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
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What's it actually cost to make a good run on the dyno in your area.I would one day like to have it done.Better fuel mileage would be great.My runs good now,but nothing wrong with running better.More power and better mileage would be great! 
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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we all paid $50.00 each for a baseline run and recomendations...(this will vary from place to place and location depending upon the local ecconomics...if I drop my bike off and tell him to dynotune it...it's between $200.00 and $300.00 (depending upon a bunch of variables carbs/how many...EFI and so on...but THEY will do all the jeting, needle, shiming work and give it back to you tuned...
THE VOICE OF REASON
per: Stewart
AF&AM/Shriner/Scoutmaster
130/45 TBS 2shim SS Uni 18/42
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Hey Mike,
You're not from CT are you?
Anyway, I'm no expert, but I don't think you're gonna get
more power, and better mpg, at the same time.
Bucky will prob'ly chime in to prove me wrong.
Uncle Charlie
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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Oldroadie,
John ? Big Poppy
Bike: 06 TBA, carbs: Stock, Pilots tested 155 droppped down to 152.5
My only question is why my bike is 10hp less than everyone elses.
Like Roger told everyone it is not HP it is rideability.
One thing for sure mine was the loudest.
John 06 America Mulberry\Silver
"Seemed Like A Good Idea At The Time"
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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nope you actually CAN get more power and better MPG...in fact you SHOULD get more power and better MPG
in short if you free up the breathing of the engine IE pipes, air intake...the motor has to work LESS hard to produce more power
but at some point it is a diminishing return and sooner or later you will modify to the point of consumeing more fule
THE VOICE OF REASON
per: Stewart
AF&AM/Shriner/Scoutmaster
130/45 TBS 2shim SS Uni 18/42
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Quote:
but at some point it is a diminishing return and sooner or later you will modify to the point of consumeing more fule
And then it SCREAMS!
I don't care that I get as low as 36mpg,
It pulls like crazy!
I dig it!
Uncle Charlie
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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Well, I said I give an update on the 100 hp Thruxton:
Okay- Saw Tony today at Eurosport and got the scoop. The bike is actually running around town here in Fort Worth. It was a 988 kit with custom megacycle cams, Shim under bucket, 2 over valves, head work, custom crank, 41.5 Kehien carbs, 2 into 1 D&D exhaust, and custom ignition. $8k total in motor work. turned out to be an 1100+ cc motor.
Tony said that 0-4k rpm the bike made stock power. 4-6k it makes a little better than stock power. From 6-9k (with the new ignition it red lines at 9250 RPM) it tears your arms off. 105 RWHP- yes, at the tire. He said it's doable, but isn't real street friendly, but does haul butt. It has full upgraded suspensions, wide rear tire (Tony has 'em custom made)and a ton of other stuff. A true $20k $8000 dollar bike.
I have no reason to doubt him. In fact he has, sitting on the showroom floor, a turbo Rocket III with a Jarden full exhaust (block back), programmer for the turbo mapping, and a custom made intake for the EFI.
2002 Bandit 1200/ GSXR cams/ 1277 BB Kit/ Holeshot header and can/ 38mm flatslides/ a good head/lotsa hp/lotsa tq- lots of rear tires...
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No I'am a little SW of you guys ! Thanks for the info. One day I will put her on a dyno. I do agree the more efficently an engine runs the fuel mileage should be better.
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Learned Hand
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I have a dumb question, since this was a rear wheel hp dyno and there was some concern about Arsnltim's unexpected hp. does it make a difference with the sizes of your sprockets. 16 tooth, 17 tooth etc. if so, spreadsheet should list it. But then again I never dyno'd anything before.
mike
2006 neon blue speedmaster
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Dumb or not - I asked my Dyno operator the same question and his answer was "No,it does not make any difference, not the which gear is used either. Most commen is to use the 4th gear since you can get a fairly stable and long enough run but you would get the same result with other gear ratios". That was what he said and I tend to belive it.
Regards
Hasse
Hasse TBA -02 Pre-Fire Cardinal Red, Wiseco 904, Thunderbike pipes, Freak
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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Thanks Hasse, I never researched the dyno yet and never understood the theory of it. but I did know you could get more power to the road by shifting down or changing the gear ratio such as sprocket sizes. they must take it all into account when they do it.
mike
2006 neon blue speedmaster
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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The gear ratios, sprockets, etc. do not affect the actual horsepower available. They control how you use it.
Bob
2005 America, 904cc - sold. 2014 Trophy SE.
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Ok... Here is my DYNO run after I did the following... Removed AI Installed TOR Shorts Installed Freak w/160 jets (from NewSpeedMaster.com) As you will see... not good. The plan is to get TBS needles and 150 jets... The pilots are stock and the mix has not been adjusted... Wondering if most will agree with approach... I am planning on another DYNO run after those adjustments. 
Last edited by bonnyusa; 09/10/2007 8:04 PM.
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Needed to post the DYNO Chart 
Last edited by bonnyusa; 09/15/2007 3:09 PM.
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Ralph, I'd try going with much smaller main jets. Maybe 140's (check Pat's jetting calculator). I don't have the freak kit, but found that with a uni filter, drilled airbox, and TBs needles (1 shim) my bike ran best with 125 mains. Other people on the board run 130's to 135's with this setup, but the difference is they are running Bubs, or gutted stock pipes, not the TORs which do not seem to flow as well. TOR's are quieter though.
Since you have the freak, and short TORs, a slightly unusual combo, I'd look at what others who run more open pipes are using and then go a step or two smaller.
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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According to the Jet Calculator I should be running 151.5 mains. Changing to a more free flowing exhaust only increases that number. Looks like the FREAK provides a bunch more air than UNI since those calc out to 121.5. Big Diff. Anyway as my signature states. I have FREAK/150Mains/TOR Shorts(STOCK)/AI OUT/Stock Pilots(42)/unturned screws. I will be turning them soon. I just purchased the CARBTUNE II so I will be mucking around when that shows up. Maybe I am just a bit paranoid about all of this since I am changing so many things... PLus I am a Perfomance Analyst on computer systems so the DYNO I have is driving me crazy Refer to NH DYNOS (finally)
Ralph Muro
'06' TBA / Tach / Freak / BUB Slash Cuts / TBS Needles with shims / 150 jets / 45 pilots / 440s / Rivco Risers / Corbin Solo / Dresser Bars / CHROME...CHROME...CHROME...
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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Hopefully if you re-run the bike on the dyno with the 150's you will get better results. How does it feel on the street? I am interested since I may consider the freak kit, if a good setup can be found that works with the short TORs. As much as I like performance, I really don't want a significantly louder pipe and up until now I have thought that the short TORs were the limiting factor for my setup.
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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I will let you know... I am planning on seeing the DYNO again very soon. The bike moves though.. I was cruisin on the parkway this weekend at 80 - 85 and still had pleanty of get out of the way power... the upper end feels nice. Its the 3000 - 3800 area that I am displeased with... It feels hesitant in that range but when you romp on it....She flys.... Also,, I have been thinking about Epco or ThunderBike pipes... May wait on that purchase till next year but I am sure that will change everything
Ralph Muro
'06' TBA / Tach / Freak / BUB Slash Cuts / TBS Needles with shims / 150 jets / 45 pilots / 440s / Rivco Risers / Corbin Solo / Dresser Bars / CHROME...CHROME...CHROME...
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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Loquacious
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at 80-85 you can still downshift if needed Frank
(Former)05 BA tbike pipes, ai removed, Freak, mikuni hsr 42's, 904, ported/polished head, 1mm oversized valves
NOW-2010 silver and black tbird
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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I have a feeling there is a lot to riding these bikes that I just dont know yet.
Ralph Muro
'06' TBA / Tach / Freak / BUB Slash Cuts / TBS Needles with shims / 150 jets / 45 pilots / 440s / Rivco Risers / Corbin Solo / Dresser Bars / CHROME...CHROME...CHROME...
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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Loquacious
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all you need to know is 2nd is good till about 60, 3rd gear is good till about 80, then 4th till a tad over 100 (indicated).
Frank
(Former)05 BA tbike pipes, ai removed, Freak, mikuni hsr 42's, 904, ported/polished head, 1mm oversized valves
NOW-2010 silver and black tbird
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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I saw a post on trat.net that had before and after dyno runs
on a 883 Sportster, stock vs. $500 add on pipes,jets,air,etc.
I thought those things were supposed to make torque?
And forget about HP.
I'm happy with what I got!
Uncle Charlie
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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30, 60, 80, are the shift points I also use on my stock America gearing (17/42 teeth), based on rev limiter experience. These points work great for max acceleration. Since I don't have a tach, I just put a blue felt pen mark on the Speedo to know when to shift for max acceleration. I don't know about the shift into 5th, but I suppose that the stated 100mph might be about right.
--Tom
02 TBA; 130 mains; TBS; Nology Coils&Wires;Unifilter/opened Airbox; -AI/snorkels; -2 baffles;Progressive 440s & Springs
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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Really cool, I rembember a thread here that listed dyno tuners by state. I really believe my bike needs a good tune up.
Does anyone know of a dyno bike tuner in Los Angeles/Southern CA area?
What is the average cost for dyno tuning your bike?
-------------------------------
2004 Bonneville America
1997 Daytona t595
1998 Speed Triple t509
1997 Ducati M750
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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Dynojet is one brand out of X number of motorcycle dyno manufacturers Here is their directory http://www.dynojet.com/dyno_centers/motorcycle/index.aspxFor a basic dyno analysis, with no mechanical or tuning work performed, somewhere around $50 seems ball park. I suppose it could cost $75 or more due to market and availability conditions. If the operator was highly competent, I would be OK at $75, but that's just my slant on it. It wouldn't hurt to talk to your local riders or riders groups and find out where the competent dyno operators are. A post at TRat to find a good dyno experience in your neighborhood may be useful too.
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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Thanks,
Now need to find my local rider group.
-------------------------------
2004 Bonneville America
1997 Daytona t595
1998 Speed Triple t509
1997 Ducati M750
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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Here is something I never thought to ask. What is the size of the engines in these dyno runs? Particularly the ‘PERFECT DYNO’. the reason I ask is because my run, the crappy looking one, did not change much after I made the mods and then had a dyno jet guy check to make sure I didn’t screw it up too bad  I have a stock engine for 06 TBA. The only mods I made are TOR pipes, FREAK, 150 mains, TBS needle(no shim). He balanced the carbs, turned the screws and tightened the chain to fine tune. (he said a loose chain would give a wavey dyno chart… Anyway… the chart looks pretty much the same except smoother and a bit more hp. I will upload it once I scan it…
Ralph Muro
'06' TBA / Tach / Freak / BUB Slash Cuts / TBS Needles with shims / 150 jets / 45 pilots / 440s / Rivco Risers / Corbin Solo / Dresser Bars / CHROME...CHROME...CHROME...
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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Loquacious
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I'm running a 790...
Just looking at your set up I got to think you're restricting yourself with the TOR's...and you could be a tad rich...
THE VOICE OF REASON
per: Stewart
AF&AM/Shriner/Scoutmaster
130/45 TBS 2shim SS Uni 18/42
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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Quote:
What is the size of the engines in these dyno runs? Particularly the ‘PERFECT DYNO’.
I run an '05 Speedmaster with the 865 cc engine, built in December of '04. The 'perfect' designation caused some extended audible discontentment in that if mine has such low horsepower compared to others, why was mine considered perfect? That was only a word the dyno tech used because I hit the Dyno Jet brand software's suggested air to fuel number, which I believe was 13.6 : 1?
There are many ways to tune, and my way may be exactly wrong for someone else. I question the word 'perfect', but again, it didn't come from me, nor did I write it on the results print out. ;-) For what it's worth, and perhaps to the dismay of some, I figured I have enough headroom to lean it out just a little bit more, so I detuned the engine a bit farther after the dyno run, so as to increase fuel efficiency. It suits the way I tend to ride most of the time, which is to get from point A to point B & back. I don't seem to miss the 1 or 2 horsepower or little bit-a torque twist I may have lopped off in detuning. I get a very consistent 50 US MPG on a 10% gasohol blend, which with my currently limited finances, works for me.
On the other side of the coin, If Santa were to drop 6 or 8 bags of cash down the chimbley, I'd love to take one of these twins and do a turbo campaign, cams, racing rods & pistons, bore & stroke, maybe even accomplish the unlikely of variable valves, EFI with a thumbwhweel on the left handle bar to adjust the map on the fly, and maybe even a little old tiny bottle of laughing gas, and a very big box of head gaskets. I would eventually be known around town as "Some old guy on a Triumph who went by me on the back wheel doin' a buck 20."
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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Ok... I see... But I still want to get the same lines that your dyno has... I dont get why I am not making power in the lower end as quickly... It a gradual increase...
Anyway... Here is the new DYNO....
[image]http://www.bonnevilleamerica.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=8450&cat=500[/image]
Ralph Muro
'06' TBA / Tach / Freak / BUB Slash Cuts / TBS Needles with shims / 150 jets / 45 pilots / 440s / Rivco Risers / Corbin Solo / Dresser Bars / CHROME...CHROME...CHROME...
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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Loquacious
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missed some stuff... Quote:
THE VOICE OF REASON
per: Stewart
AF&AM/Shriner/Scoutmaster
130/45 TBS 2shim SS Uni 18/42
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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Quote:
Ok... I see... But I still want to get the same lines that your dyno has... I dont get why I am not making power in the lower end as quickly... It a gradual increase...
Only a guess, but your results are suggesting that perhaps the TORs are a bit restrictive, or the TBS needles may be allowing too much fuel before the engine can assimilate it. You should be turning more HP with 150 jets. Something is perhaps in the way.
I'm anything but smart about this stuff, and again, I'm guessing.
We were fortunate with the NH dyno runs that the dyno tech was able to interpret and translate the dyno results for us. It seemed he had a lot of experience with bike tuning as well.
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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Where's the air/fuel ratio chart?
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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Learned Hand
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just a suggestion here. There are many flavors of the TOR pipes. some have baffles, some have none. Some have some dampening material behind a screen, some don't.
Perhaps you have a set that has some of the baffles or other restriction. The TOR's on Pats jetting calculator are for those that are open, I believe.
Look in your pipes with a flashlight. If you cannot see all the way to the header turn, I'd look at using Pat's calculator with the stock pipe and 2 baffles out.
Also, post the AF from the dyno. That will tell a lot. I'm running drag pipes and 45/150/TBS w 2 shims and I'm lean in the middle. From what I saw on the first AF post, you are WAAAAYYYY rich.
2002 Bandit 1200/ GSXR cams/ 1277 BB Kit/ Holeshot header and can/ 38mm flatslides/ a good head/lotsa hp/lotsa tq- lots of rear tires...
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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Worn Saddle
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Bucky gave a very accurate diagnosis, good on ya Buckster!
Get the TBS needles out, put in stock needles with 2 shims, take the TOR's off and put on some real pipes or gut the TOR's.
You should be producing low ti mid 60s in HP and about 50 Torque with your setup.
A word to the wise is not necessary. It is the stupid ones who need the advice.
Pat
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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Hey Guys... Thanks for the input... First... The DYNO guy did not give me my AF numbers. I thought that odd but since I am new at this I figured maybe some do and some dont... Anyway... I broke down and bought a set of BUB slash cuts. The TORS I have are open all the way through but have what appears to be "dampening material behind a screen". I totally understand the WAAAAAAAY rich situation which is why I am hoping the BUBS will lean it out a bit. I have the 150s and TBS still in. I see you are running 45 pilots... I still have the stock pilots which I believe to be 42s. The BUBs should be here tomorrow. I will fill you on any change in the ride.. I dont know when I am gonna get to another DYNO but this time it needs to be with someone who will work with me on this and help tune it.... Plus give me a complete report
Ralph Muro
'06' TBA / Tach / Freak / BUB Slash Cuts / TBS Needles with shims / 150 jets / 45 pilots / 440s / Rivco Risers / Corbin Solo / Dresser Bars / CHROME...CHROME...CHROME...
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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Hey Ralph, It so happens I've got a Freak ready to be put in but what's interesting about your results for me is, I would have had the same setup. In other words, your results would probably reflect similarly to mine if I had a dyno done. So now I'm convinced that in the first instance I'll have to at least take out a baffle or two from my long Tors. BTW, my tors are the "baffle can be seen 12" in from the end" variety  So what I'm saying is, thanks for asking about you dyno results cos it gives me advice too on what I should do.
Staintune Pipes, K&N Pods, 45 pilots, TBS needles and 145 mains.
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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Ok... The BUBS showed up and went on very nicely... THEY SOUND GREAT!!!. However, Looks like I am back to the drawing board for tuning as I DO feel more power but it sluffs off around 3/4 to WOT. Looks like I will try the stock needles again and maybe a rejet... but before all of that... A trip to the DYNO... Still looking for a good one in the Tri-state area if anyone has had a good experience with someone specific.
Ralph Muro
'06' TBA / Tach / Freak / BUB Slash Cuts / TBS Needles with shims / 150 jets / 45 pilots / 440s / Rivco Risers / Corbin Solo / Dresser Bars / CHROME...CHROME...CHROME...
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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Learned Hand
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Okay. So you got good pipes now. This may help you with your baseline. I've had some time on my hands, so I've been messing with the cabs again. I'm running some tuned drag pipes with fishtails(FYI) and K&N filters (completely open). I just swapped out TBS w/2 shims for the stock needles w/2 shims, and it makes power quicker in the band. I'm set up as 45/155/stock needles w/2 shims on an 06 SM, and it comes on hard at WOT in the 5-7k RPM range.
Actually, that is what got me messing around with the carbs again. It was really lackadaisical until 5k RPM, then it hit a power surge. I thought is was over fueling (rich) in the mid range, so I took out the one shim on the TBS needles. well, it got worse. Went back in and put 2 shims on the TBS needles; whoa baby. That's much better. Same day, I read a post from Dinqua about pitching the TBS and going to stock, looked at some side-by-side photos of the TBS and stock SM needle, and the stock SM needles are shorter, so, theoritecially, they should open up sooner-like TBS w/3 shims (I know they are tapered different and the 3rd shim adds weight yada, yada, yada), but, none the less, this set up with the stock needles and 2 shims brings the power quicker in the RPM band than the TBS w/2 shims did. It is noticeable. I'll be swapping to 160's in the next few weeks just to experiment and validate, but I expect it to be too far rich (I suspect that I'm a step too rich now with 155's), and if that is too far, I'll retreat to 152's. I may try 42's while the 160's are there, just for the what if factor. Remember... this all works as a system, but perhaps this can be a baseline for you.
2002 Bandit 1200/ GSXR cams/ 1277 BB Kit/ Holeshot header and can/ 38mm flatslides/ a good head/lotsa hp/lotsa tq- lots of rear tires...
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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been a while since the last post so I figured 'why not' on thanksgiving after riding a bit with the bubs my right manifild is turning gold... so I am guessing I am a little lean on that side. I am thinking about going to 152 or 155 mains... I also ordered 45 and 48 pilots even though I dont know what I might do with them The more I learn the more I realize that I have a load of testing infront of me.... More to come....
Ralph Muro
'06' TBA / Tach / Freak / BUB Slash Cuts / TBS Needles with shims / 150 jets / 45 pilots / 440s / Rivco Risers / Corbin Solo / Dresser Bars / CHROME...CHROME...CHROME...
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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Loquacious
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gold is ok, blue is when its way to hot. i wouldnt worry about it
Frank
(Former)05 BA tbike pipes, ai removed, Freak, mikuni hsr 42's, 904, ported/polished head, 1mm oversized valves
NOW-2010 silver and black tbird
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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Just to let you know that I put the freak on and subsequently changed the jetting as I said I would ie 150 main jets. I kept my pilots as stock cos I'm not turning out more than 3 turns. I also swapped the tbs back to stock and have one shim. So far she runs very nice. I'm not sure yet if these are the best settings yet but I don't have any popping on deceleration and she runs strong throughout the entire rev range. So my next step is just to keep an eye on the plugs but I would be surprised if I was anything other than rich, which can be sorted as the need arises. BTW, I didn't end up taking out a baffle from my tors cos it just looked a bit too hard. Mind you, I was able to poke a stick up the spout so to speak and it virtually goes to the end of my pipes meaning, I have less restriction than some of the earlier tors. All in all she's running probably smoother than any time I can remember which makes me think I might just be on track
Last edited by Staffo; 01/03/2008 5:49 PM.
Staintune Pipes, K&N Pods, 45 pilots, TBS needles and 145 mains.
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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Worn Saddle
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Good on ya, John. Did you get a big improvement in torque?
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
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Check Pants
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Interesting. I have the same setup (pipes/filter) as you but am running 132.5 mains. Guess I'm pretty much on the money (bike runs very well). Quote:
I was told that my pilot circuit and my needles were fine but the my main was WAY to rich (perhaps as much as 2 sizes) BUT as I intend to drill out the airbox I knew I would be rich...so I may only need drill and drop 1 size (to a 132.5 instead of 130'S)
Al
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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Staintune Pipes, K&N Pods, 45 pilots, TBS needles and 145 mains.
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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OK... The final setup is in my signature... Got 10 more horses out of it. 63.3 and the torque stayed the same @ 47.6 Carbs were out of balance and needed to put the 45 pilots in with a shim on the TBS. Bike was very hesitant prior to this tune. No fun to ride at all. Looking forward to next session. Aint touching a thing Staffo... If you are running the freak/tors/150 then you are definately rich. I put bubs on with the same setup and that opened it up to a slightly lean condition. the 150 go well with the freak and bubs.
Ralph Muro
'06' TBA / Tach / Freak / BUB Slash Cuts / TBS Needles with shims / 150 jets / 45 pilots / 440s / Rivco Risers / Corbin Solo / Dresser Bars / CHROME...CHROME...CHROME...
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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Yeah, you could be right Ralph. I'll have to see a bit down the track. Meanwhile the bike is running as good as ever with the current setup and until I can get a dyno to verify, I'll look at other clues to help me decide whether I go for lower sized jets or not. Thanks for the tip
Staintune Pipes, K&N Pods, 45 pilots, TBS needles and 145 mains.
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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Staffo... I would love to see the dyno chart when and if you run it with this setup. It would be nice to compare the two since they are so similar in setup. Just for the heck ofo
Ralph Muro
'06' TBA / Tach / Freak / BUB Slash Cuts / TBS Needles with shims / 150 jets / 45 pilots / 440s / Rivco Risers / Corbin Solo / Dresser Bars / CHROME...CHROME...CHROME...
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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Yeah Ralph, I'm a big believer in sharing info with everyone. That way it helps others make informed decisions on how they might do their setup etc. I know I have been really appreciative of what others have told me so I like to return the favour whenever I can. Now regarding my running rich. You reckoned I would be definitely running rich with my setup eh? Well just remember I am using stock needles with one shim and not TBS. With everything I've read and been told, using the stock needles does not allow as much fuel in our carbs between 1/4 to 3/4 (I think that's the range) throttle range. Anyway, I've been too busy with stuff to have a good look at the plugs yet (it's not a priority) but one thing I can tell you is I'm getting approx' 5 mpg (UK gallonss) extra fuel economy than prior to installing the freak.Admitedly, I know I was definitely running rich with my other setup ie drilled box with uni blah blah balh, and I'm not saying I might not still be a tad rich either, but I just get the sneaking suspicion I'm close just cos of like I say, how well my bike is running. BTW, like I said, I'm a firm believer in sharing info and will definitely show everyone my results when I do eventually get a dyno done. Just a shame though that we can't organise ourselves so that each dyno results that are proven with the scanned printout aren't being provided here for all to see. I thought at one stage we were going to do that and lots agreed it was a good idea, but it never really happened. It's just such a great idea to see dyno results just because it will help all those who have similar setups to mod their bike accordingly so that they should be pretty close to the money without having to actually dyno themselves. Also it's just really interesting stuff
Staintune Pipes, K&N Pods, 45 pilots, TBS needles and 145 mains.
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Staintune Pipes, K&N Pods, 45 pilots, TBS needles and 145 mains.
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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Ok I keep reading bout this freak,can someone tell me what the freak it is?
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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its an airbox removal kit, do a search tons of info on here about it
Frank
(Former)05 BA tbike pipes, ai removed, Freak, mikuni hsr 42's, 904, ported/polished head, 1mm oversized valves
NOW-2010 silver and black tbird
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,485 |
I've not had the chance to dyno my bike but I do see a few setups similar to what I run. I have SS shorts, open pod filters, 150/45, stock needles with no shims and about 2.5 turns out on the mix screws.
I've noticed that bikes with about the same arrangement (Staffo, Big Poppy) are charting lower HP/Torque numbers than just about everyone else, and in some cases very close to stock. Is this setup just lame or am I missing something here? BTW, my seat-of-the-pants dyno tells me that my bike is running stronger than ever.
Last edited by blackdog; 07/23/2008 3:11 PM.
"Despite all the amputation, you could dance to a rock 'n roll station..."
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 NH DYNOS (finally)
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 807
3/4 Throttle
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3/4 Throttle
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 807 |
This thread is great. I do intend to dyno my bike at some point so I have a baseline but it won't be anytime soon.
I do feel, however, that a vital piece of information is missing: how the bike was run/broken in. I imagine that a decent break-in can make a big difference in the numbers.
Just a thought.
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,671 Likes: 15
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,671 Likes: 15 |
Quote:
Thought others might be interested. Here's the link to Pat's Dyno results
Keep in mind the NH dyno results in the referenced chart are all "uncorrected"...that is to say the results are what those bikes made on that dyno on that day at that altitude & at that temperature & humidity. Comparing HP & torque figures for "uncorrected" runs with separate "corrected" (correction factor) runs, however interesting, are not necessarily directly comparable, unless the CF is 1.00.
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,099
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,099 |
In NH we put six bikes on the dyno, one after another.
This give a nice comparison of the different mods.
Comparing these results to any on another dyno rig is
apples to oranges. But it's still interesting.
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 64
Member
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Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 64 |
Hey folks... It's been a while since I have posted here. Miss the place. I got a lot of good info from you guys. The sad truth is that my brother is currently enjoying my BA. The good news about that is I passed the info off to him and not now he is mockin around with my hard work I am back to start asking questions about moding the new BA for performance. My buddy just purchased an 08 Speedie. I am giving him a set of my TOR pipes that have laying around. Will I need to mod the FI with these pipes? Do you need a device like a Power Commander to do mods on the new bikes? is the AI system required for proper function on the new bikes? So many questions.
Ralph Muro
'06' TBA / Tach / Freak / BUB Slash Cuts / TBS Needles with shims / 150 jets / 45 pilots / 440s / Rivco Risers / Corbin Solo / Dresser Bars / CHROME...CHROME...CHROME...
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 142
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 142 |
if I can upload these I would like to know what the experts think. its a 2006 TBA 790cc,at sea level, raask straight through drag pipes no other mods, 2nd run was after adding a cpl of washers to the needles.  
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,416
Oil Expert
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Oil Expert
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,416 |
Well, I'm by no means an expert, but looking at your a/f curve, it looks quite decent, maybe a (very) little lean in the midrange. When you say no other mods, does that mean you still have the snorkel in your air box, stock jetting and stock needle? 60 hp is actually a good number with your setup. Did you get a torque reading as well?
"Wise men speak because they have something to say, fools because they have to say something."
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,308 Likes: 4
Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,308 Likes: 4 |
Quote:
. Did you get a torque reading as well?
Pssst, Piper, the top part has the torque numbers. (I won't tell anyone...)
Last edited by Dinqua; 10/31/2009 10:49 AM.
A word to the wise is not necessary. It is the stupid ones who need the advice.
Pat
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,416
Oil Expert
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Oil Expert
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,416 |
None??? 
"Wise men speak because they have something to say, fools because they have to say something."
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,150
Oil Expert
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Oil Expert
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,150 |
Hey Pat, have you been smoken that green stuff again, or maybe I should cos call me stacka the wacka but I can't seem to find the tq numbers at Quote:
"the top part"
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Am I going mad or just feeling dizzy from looking at the printout for too long.
Maybe I can't remember having a little smoke myself
Last edited by Staffo; 10/31/2009 7:32 PM.
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Re: NH DYNOS (finally)
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 142
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 142 |
have been told its poss to calculate the torque from the power somehow, anyone know how?
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