 Will not start, electrial !
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,268 Likes: 15
Saddle Sore
|
OP
Saddle Sore
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,268 Likes: 15 |
I need some advise. I have a gremlin that has been haunting me on and off for 6-8 months. Occasionally the bike will not start. A fast click like the solenoid is not engaging.
Push the bike,fires right up. I replaced a three + year old battery thinking that was the problem. Nope still happens, ocassionaly. Very frustrating, I can go weeks without an issue, then bang here we go again.
100 mile trip yesterday, four stops no problem. Fifth stop,clickity,clcikity no go. I'm five mins from home. Push the bike fire up ride her to the house. Let the bike and ME cool off 15 mins. Put the meter on the battery, 12.4 volts.
Try to start, fires right up. What the heck. I checked everything I can. Nothing is loose. Di electric grease on the connections. Check the battery again the morning, still reading 12.4. Still fires up.
My hunch tells me it's the solenoid but if that is weak why would it start after a 5 min ride. I'm taking the meter with me from now on to check the battery if this happens again.
But as I stated earlier it could be weeks before it acts up.
Mike
|
|
|
Re: Will not start, electrial !
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 1
Worn Saddle
|
|
Worn Saddle
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 1 |
Sounds like there's corrosion or debris build up in the solenoid since it is intermittent. Seems like you've eliminated it being a heat related issue or a connection issue; the only thing you didn't mention is the actual ground used by the solenoid itself, which might be dodgy enough to cause this. I need to look myself and see if the solenoid uses a wire or a "hard" ground to the frame.
|
|
|
Re: Will not start, electrial !
|
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 436
Adjunct
|
|
Adjunct
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 436 |
You know, this probably isn't what's causing your problem, but ya never know:
One time my wife's minivan kept having problems...clickity-clack sound when trying to start...then later it would start right up....then same thing again.
I kept cleaning the batt terminals, checking wires, etc etc...used the volt meter and it would show 12 volts +...check it again and just a few volts would show. She took it to Pep Boys, they checked battery, and said nothing was wrong with it.....then she tries to start it up...clickity-clack again. They were closing up but they came out to help. Finally, they just put in a new battery and everywhere has worked right since! Just a wacky battery. The best thing is they gave her the battery for free!
|
|
|
Re: Will not start, electrial !
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,268 Likes: 15
Saddle Sore
|
|
OP
Saddle Sore
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,268 Likes: 15 |
Churchkey, I thought about that. Only thing is it did the same thing with the old battery. I replaced it thinking it had a cell going out. Same problem keeps coming up with the battery I installed 3 months ago.
Weird deal.
|
|
|
Re: Will not start, electrial !
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,537
Check Pants
|
|
Check Pants
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,537 |
There is a similar thread on the Rat.net, Jersey Jeff posted. Here's my response:
My 02 did the same thing two years ago. I thought for sure it was switch related. Local dealer said it was the starter solenoid. Ordered the part, but they screwed up and ordered the starter relay instead ($11). I bought the relay and bumped into the mechanic on the way out. Told him about the wrong part, he said I wasted $11. I said oh well, call me when the solenoid comes in ($100). They never called back, and after two weeks I decided what the heck, put the relay in. With the new relay, I've never had a problem since. (still waiting for the call on that starter solenoid....) You might want to take the $11 gamble, not much to lose. Keep us posted. This problem frustrated me for several months before swapping out the relay.
Al
|
|
|
Re: Will not start, electrial !
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,072 Likes: 80
Loquacious
|
|
Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,072 Likes: 80 |
I'd say the starter relay is a really good place to start.
|
|
|
Re: Will not start, electrial !
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,268 Likes: 15
Saddle Sore
|
|
OP
Saddle Sore
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,268 Likes: 15 |
ssjones,chy you guys are probably correct. That's why I posted the thread. I knew someone would point me in the right direction.
Two relays on the frame under the tank. Are one of those the starter relay? Can I grab something from Pep Boys to replace it?
Mike
|
|
|
Re: Will not start, electrial !
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,072 Likes: 80
Loquacious
|
|
Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,072 Likes: 80 |
Yep.. ones the flasher and the other is the relay. Dunno 'bout the Pep Boys thing but if it works be sure to give us the part-no. for the tech vault.
|
|
|
Re: Will not start, electrial !
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,268 Likes: 15
Saddle Sore
|
|
OP
Saddle Sore
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,268 Likes: 15 |
Chy, manual states 1 is the indicator relay. 2 is headlight relay?
So is the headlight relay the same for the starter relay?
Mike
|
|
|
Re: Will not start, electrial !
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,537
Check Pants
|
|
Check Pants
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,537 |
I didn't look locally because I was expecting to buy/install the starter solenoid.
It's been a few years now, I can't recall which relay it is in that three-way harness.
Just looked at my wiring digram and am I crazy or is there no reference to the relay???? I see the starter motor and solenoid but no relay.
Al
|
|
|
Re: Will not start, electrial !
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,537
Check Pants
|
|
Check Pants
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,537 |
Quote:
Chy, manual states 1 is the indicator relay. 2 is headlight relay?
So is the headlight relay the same for the starter relay?
Mike
Has to be and explains the lack of reference in the manual wiring diagram. The rear most of the three is for my driving lights (pretty sure).
Al
|
|
|
Re: Will not start, electrial !
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,268 Likes: 15
Saddle Sore
|
|
OP
Saddle Sore
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,268 Likes: 15 |
Quote:
Just looked at my wiring digram and am I crazy or is there no reference to the relay???? I see the starter motor and solenoid but no relay.
Not sure I do not have the tank off. Are there three relays on the frame. I can't recall? Hmmm
Mike
|
|
|
Re: Will not start, electrial !
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,179
Learned Hand
|
|
Learned Hand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,179 |
It's the round module behind the right side-panel per the Haynes Manual. If you give me a few minutes I can transcribe what Hayne's says for checking the relay and PM you with it.
|
|
|
Re: Will not start, electrial !
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,182 Likes: 2
Learned Hand
|
|
Learned Hand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,182 Likes: 2 |
there are only 3 relays if you have the driving lights.
stock there is only 2.
Pete
|
|
|
Re: Will not start, electrial !
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,268 Likes: 15
Saddle Sore
|
|
OP
Saddle Sore
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,268 Likes: 15 |
Pete, I do have have the driving lights.
|
|
|
Re: Will not start, electrial !
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 9,223
Big Bore
|
|
Big Bore
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 9,223 |
Hey Mike,
Just looked in the parts fiche and one is listed as the indicator relay and the other as the starter relay (T2501700 in case you need this #) so the headlight relay has to be the starter relay also.
"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity" - Robert Heinlein
|
|
|
Re: Will not start, electrial !
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,179
Learned Hand
|
|
Learned Hand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,179 |
|
|
|
Re: Will not start, electrial !
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,268 Likes: 15
Saddle Sore
|
|
OP
Saddle Sore
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,268 Likes: 15 |
Tom thanks for the PM info. I had just pulled the relay before reading the your PM. It defiantly is the same as the headlight relay, closest to the front end. Listed as 2 in the Triumph manual. I'm gonna run to Autozone as see if I get lucky.
Mike
|
|
|
Re: Will not start, electrial !
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,179
Learned Hand
|
|
Learned Hand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,179 |
Starter Relay (AKA Solenoid)  
|
|
|
Re: Will not start, electrial !
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,537
Check Pants
|
|
Check Pants
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,537 |
This is the item I had to replace. The other was what the mechanic said was bad, the starter solenoid/relay. He knocked it with a hammer and said, "see, it's clicking, defintely bad". I replaced the relay they ordered by mistake and haven't had a problem for two years. Quote:
Al
|
|
|
Re: Will not start, electrial !
|
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 371 Likes: 2
Adjunct
|
|
Adjunct
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 371 Likes: 2 |
Mate, My bike completely shut down a few weeks ago. The instrument light fuse blew. Took out ALL of the electrics. Replaced the fuse bang, back on the road. Bloody weird. I still don't know how that worked!! If you can't get the easy stuff maybe there might be something in that? 
A dog, a bike, a ute,
Now in the deep south.. Newcastle.
Cold winters, cold rain
Come on summer
|
|
|
Re: Will not start, electrial !
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 380
Adjunct
|
|
Adjunct
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 380 |
having the same issues.
let me know what you come up with.
My next step is cleaning all grounds bat. and solenoid.
good luck!
Scott
|
|
|
Re: Will not start, electrial !
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 182
Adjunct
|
|
Adjunct
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 182 |
Was having the same problems on my bike. Press the starter button and nothin happened. I actually took the solenoid apart to clean it at one stage. Problem kept happening.
I ended up replacing the relay under the tank but didn't think it could possibly be the problem and guess what it was!!
Havent had it happen since. I payed about five bucks for the replacement its worth the bucks just to see if it is the culprit.
|
|
|
Re: Will not start, electrial !
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,268 Likes: 15
Saddle Sore
|
|
OP
Saddle Sore
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,268 Likes: 15 |
SRS, did you pick one up from a parts store or is it a dealer only item?
Mike
|
|
|
Re: Will not start, electrial !
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 182
Adjunct
|
|
Adjunct
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 182 |
Mike
I did not get it from the dealers it would be ten x the price possibly. Over here we have stores called supercheap autos they sell all your accessories and bits for cars.
I tried to find the receipt to give you an accurate description but it has disappeared. If I remember right it is called a Single Pole Double Throw changeover relay. The best thing to do is take your old one along they usually have a tiny schematic drawing on the side of them which makes it easy to match.
|
|
|
Re: Will not start, electrial !
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,537
Check Pants
|
|
Check Pants
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,537 |
Mike: If you get it locally, definitely get that applicaton number in the tech vault. I love trouble-shooting when it only costs $5! Quote:
Mike
I did not get it from the dealers it would be ten x the price possibly. Over here we have stores called supercheap autos they sell all your accessories and bits for cars.
I tried to find the receipt to give you an accurate description but it has disappeared. If I remember right it is called a Single Pole Double Throw changeover relay. The best thing to do is take your old one along they usually have a tiny schematic drawing on the side of them which makes it easy to match.
Al
|
|
|
Re: Will not start, electrial !
|
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,254
Oil Expert
|
|
Oil Expert
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,254 |
Having the same problem too,for the last month or so . took bike to a dealer and he checked the charging system ,ok'd it, says the battery was hooped (new battery 3 months ago )changed battery . a few days later ,same bloody thing clickity clickety. tightened everything up, cleaned fuses etc same shite happens, was just about to post for help and heres the very thread (this place never ceases to amaze me ).so i,ll be rippin out said relay and headin out to the parts store, hopefully this is my problem solved (fingers crossed).
|
|
|
Re: Will not start, electrial !
|
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,254
Oil Expert
|
|
Oil Expert
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,254 |
changed out the relay ($10 at auto part store), still clickety clickity lookin like its the solenoid .dealer time again but first ALE/SCOTCH TIME
|
|
|
Re: Will not start, electrial !
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,268 Likes: 15
Saddle Sore
|
|
OP
Saddle Sore
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,268 Likes: 15 |
"Edit,the middle pin should read 87a on the top drawing" [image]  [/image] Ok, here's where I'm at. As we all learned earlier the headlight relay is the same as the starter relay. I visited five auto parts store and came away with a relay for Oreilly Auto Parts. Looks real close, put it in bing the bike started but no headlight. Hmmm. try the stocker headlight works bike turns over. Try the aftermarket again. No headlight. I made a drawing of both relays. Hopefully someone with an understanding of schematics can shed a little light on this issue. If you can find a match I'm sure it would work. Mike excuse the drawing, I not a little kid I just draw like one 
Last edited by mikemm03; 08/06/2007 9:02 PM.
|
|
|
Re: Will not start, electrial !
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,268 Likes: 15
Saddle Sore
|
|
OP
Saddle Sore
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,268 Likes: 15 |
Celt, you have a part number? Did everything work? Headlight etc?
Mike
|
|
|
Re: Will not start, electrial !
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 1
Worn Saddle
|
|
Worn Saddle
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 1 |
If you can remove and relocate the leads in the harness I believe you should try swapping pin 30 and outside 87. Might keep some fuses on hand in case I'm full of s...
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
|
|
|
Re: Will not start, electrial !
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,268 Likes: 15
Saddle Sore
|
|
OP
Saddle Sore
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,268 Likes: 15 |
Oldroadie, you might be right on both accounts  But I'm looking for a direct swap. The pins are the same but the schematic is different. Close loop open loop whatever, etc?
|
|
|
Re: Will not start, electrial !
|
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,254
Oil Expert
|
|
Oil Expert
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,254 |
gimme 10mins and i,ll look for it mike
|
|
|
Re: Will not start, electrial !
|
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,254
Oil Expert
|
|
Oil Expert
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,254 |
ok , relay is a bosch 12v 0 332 209 137.headlights do work, low and hi beam if that helps. the pin config is the same numbers all match (85,86 87,30)however the middle pin is 87a.
the schematic on the side of the bosch is different from the org and from your o reilly relay . as i stated lights work and i,m still getting the clicking . hope this helps you .
|
|
|
Re: Will not start, electrial !
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,268 Likes: 15
Saddle Sore
|
|
OP
Saddle Sore
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,268 Likes: 15 |
Celt, my mistake. The middle pin on the drawing for the stock Hella should have read 87a.
I'm not sure what the 87a means, maybe someone can chime in and clarify this.
Sorry to here this did not help your situation. Might be the solenoid.
My bike is an intermittent problem. I'll see if I can locate the Bosch and give thath a try.
Mike
|
|
|
Re: Will not start, electrial !
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,416
Oil Expert
|
|
Oil Expert
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,416 |
Incredible! Was having the exact symptoms when at the Euro Rally. Bike suddenly died on the road and all that was when trying to start it back up was the clicking of the solenoid. Ended up changing the battery to a new one (Thanks again Johann for driving down to Jönköping and back for me) and the symptoms went away - for a while... On the way back home together with Bedouin same thing happened a couple of times. Jump starting was the only way to get her going. Took the back roads instead of the highway and Bedouin offered to join me all the way to Uppsala. My friend, a big thanks to you as well! Found this thread and bought a new relay today. Tomorrow will show if the relay was the culprit even for me. Fingers crossed...
"Wise men speak because they have something to say, fools because they have to say something."
|
|
|
Re: Will not start, electrial !
|
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,254
Oil Expert
|
|
Oil Expert
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,254 |
hope that works for you Piper . i talked to a triumph mech today ,same guy who checked the charging system ,i tell him same problem again ,i changed the battery for a new one, he says "its the battery ,not yuasa not good ". he had the same prob with a speed triple ,changed to yuasa battery and problem solved . i,m not totally convinced however ,will be putting bike back together and driving it back to my orig dealer let them have a look . two weeks out of warranty and this shite happens.not a happy camper ,thank the gods for glenmorangie and cheap stogies . how about you Mikemm03 any joy .
|
|
|
Re: Will not start, electrial !
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,268 Likes: 15
Saddle Sore
|
|
OP
Saddle Sore
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,268 Likes: 15 |
Celt, after searching five auto parts stores for a replacement I gave up. The Bosch number is not valid here in the states. Not sure what the deal with that is! Called the Tri dealer, not in stock. Should have it by Saturday.12 bucks. I spent that much in fuel running around looking for a cheap replacement Mike
|
|
|
Re: Will not start, electrial !
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,416
Oil Expert
|
|
Oil Expert
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,416 |
Works - at least right now... Hopefully this was it. I always thought that a relay was either shot or OK and never somewhere in between... 
"Wise men speak because they have something to say, fools because they have to say something."
|
|
|
Re: Will not start, electrial !
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 291
Adjunct
|
|
Adjunct
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 291 |
Change the solenoid...Mine went haywire 1500 miles ago; no issues since. Same symptoms you have. Remember electrical parts have a mind of their own and will decide to quit or work a moments notice...even after sitting for a while. Goodluck!
Best looking black girl around!
2004 SM-spokes, solo seat, lowered rear, 14 in apes, bobber rear fender, no front fender. Flat black all the way around.
Jeff
|
|
|
 Re: Will not start, electrial !
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,268 Likes: 15
Saddle Sore
|
|
OP
Saddle Sore
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,268 Likes: 15 |
Got up at 5:30 am get the honey do's outta the way. Butts draggin, head of to pick up my relay at the dealer. 45 mins away in the cage. Back home stick it in, turn the key, lights work hit the start button. Vroom, ah right. Put her back together, gear up. Hit the start button,clickty,clickty. WTF, check the battery, 12.3v. Crap I guess Skydivejeff is right looks like I need a solenoid. Noooooooo problem. Dealers closed until Tuesday and I'm sure they will have to order it they have to order everything. Which will put it here next Saturday if I'm lucky, dang man needs a spare bike sitting around. Whats that dear? You need what? I'll be right there, back to the honey do list. 
|
|
|
Re: Will not start, electrial !
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,639 Likes: 3
Old Hand
|
|
Old Hand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,639 Likes: 3 |
Don't forget to check the far end of the battery ground cable. If it's loose there, it will act like a near dead battery sometimes and work just fine other times.
Let's hope there's intelligent life somewhere in space 'cause it's buggar all down here. -- Monte Python
|
|
|
Re: Will not start, electrial !
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,416
Oil Expert
|
|
Oil Expert
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,416 |
Good idea GB. Where is that cable attached? Have never checked... 
"Wise men speak because they have something to say, fools because they have to say something."
|
|
|
Re: Will not start, electrial !
|
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,254
Oil Expert
|
|
Oil Expert
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,254 |
mike same problem for me , clickety clickity . so i cleaned and tightened every thing,fuses ,connections etc . charged battery ,put old relay back in and vroom vroom everything appears to be fine(touch wood).i test the battery with a volt meter and get 12.6-12.8 on idle 14+ with choke on, and around 12.5 first thing in morning (after sitting all night).ive been told by a mechanic that if the solenoid goes it does not click at all . i must also say that i cut a small piece out of the positive wire at the battery ,as it had a major kink in it, which i thought may have had a few broken strands of wire in it. so far so good. (now that ive said all that ,you know what comes next  . 
|
|
|
Re: Will not start, electrial !
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,268 Likes: 15
Saddle Sore
|
|
OP
Saddle Sore
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,268 Likes: 15 |
Gb, I have checked that. Sometimes when I try to start it sounds like the starter kinda half way engages. Like I released the start button to soon or something, sort of a double clutch if you will. Same thing happened when I put the new relay in.
I'm beginning to wonder if the starter is going out, I hope not.
Any way to check that?
Mike
|
|
|
Re: Will not start, electrial !
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,063 Likes: 8
Loquacious
|
|
Loquacious
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,063 Likes: 8 |
Mike,
The next time your unit goes clickety click, immediately take the side cover off to gain access to the solenoid and short the two solenoid leads with a heavy jumper wire. This will bypass the solenoid and the relay that powers the solenoid (I'm assuming your relay is good though). This will bypass the solenoid contacts ensuring the starter gets full battery voltage. If the unit starts, you have a bad solenoid.
Make sure the bike is in neutral!!!
Oh yes, one more thing, have you checked to see if your starter bolts are tight? A loose starter will give you the same condition.
12 Rocket Roadster
03 Bonneville America
69 BSA Firebird Scrambler
73 Yamaha TX 750
|
|
|
Re: Will not start, electrial !
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,606 Likes: 2
Loquacious
|
|
Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,606 Likes: 2 |
Or you can do what I have done...I semi-perminatly wired a starter button (from NAPA) to "jump" the two leads on the solinoid...did it at the GA rally took all of tem Min...I still have it on the bike today and still use it...works great...and that solinoid is like a $50.00 part...just be careful it will start (or try to) in gear...ask me how I know
THE VOICE OF REASON
per: Stewart
AF&AM/Shriner/Scoutmaster
130/45 TBS 2shim SS Uni 18/42
|
|
|
Re: Will not start, electrial !
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,268 Likes: 15
Saddle Sore
|
|
OP
Saddle Sore
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,268 Likes: 15 |
Hi Gregger, I have double checked all connections. Brand new relay.
I'll give the jumper a try. If it is the solenoid can I leave the jumper in place for a while until I can make other arrangements?
Mike
|
|
|
Re: Will not start, electrial !
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,063 Likes: 8
Loquacious
|
|
Loquacious
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,063 Likes: 8 |
One other thing you didn't mention (Maybe I didn't see it scanning the thread) was when the start problem takes place? Was it with the unit in neutral, or in gear with the clutch engaged, or both?
If in neutral, the starter relay finds it's ground through the neutral switch. If in gear, it finds ground through the clutch switch then the sidestand switch. If both, then chances are it isn't the ground for the starter relay.
Do you have a starter circuit print?
12 Rocket Roadster
03 Bonneville America
69 BSA Firebird Scrambler
73 Yamaha TX 750
|
|
|
Re: Will not start, electrial !
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,063 Likes: 8
Loquacious
|
|
Loquacious
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,063 Likes: 8 |
Quote:
I'll give the jumper a try. If it is the solenoid can I leave the jumper in place for a while until I can make other arrangements?
Mike
NO!! the jumper will cause the starter to keep running without pressing the starter button. It is not meant to be left on for any amount of time. It is only meant to verify if the solenoid is at fault or the starter. If the unit clicks, then jumper the solenoid with a heavy wire. If it continues to click when jumpering, the starter might be at fault or starter ground poor. If it starts, the solenoid is most likely at fault. This just narrows the problem down without you having to purchase anything.
There is a safety concern doing this though. Make sure the unit is in neutral as all the safeties will be bypassed. You only want to touch the leads with the wire for a moment to see if the starter turns.
If the solenoid is at fault though, all you will need till you get one is a jumper wire to start your bike but take care.
12 Rocket Roadster
03 Bonneville America
69 BSA Firebird Scrambler
73 Yamaha TX 750
|
|
|
Re: Will not start, electrial !
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,268 Likes: 15
Saddle Sore
|
|
OP
Saddle Sore
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,268 Likes: 15 |
Gregger
Both in gear and in neutral, yes I have a manual with the print out.
Good suggestions.
I understand about the jumper, I spoke before I thought.
I understand the starter will continue to engage with the jumper, even in gear.
I'll give the jumper a go and see what happens.
Thanks,
Mike
|
|
|
 Re: Will not start, electrial !
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,268 Likes: 15
Saddle Sore
|
|
OP
Saddle Sore
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,268 Likes: 15 |
Gregger, I tried to start the bike. Same problem. I then tried the jumper and bingo the starter engaged. Try again without the jumper clickity,click. Back to the jumper and bingo the starter engages. Looks like you have diagnosed my problem. Thank you very much, learned something new today. Well actually my memory was refreshed today. We used to do the same thing back in the day with a screw driver on an old Chevy. Funny I had forgotten about that. looks like I'll be shopping for a solenoid. Thanks again, Mike 
|
|
|
Re: Will not start, electrial !
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,063 Likes: 8
Loquacious
|
|
Loquacious
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,063 Likes: 8 |
Glad to help. Keep us posted.
It's too bad you can't open the solenoid up. You probably have some burnt contacts that can be cleaned up with a fine point file.
12 Rocket Roadster
03 Bonneville America
69 BSA Firebird Scrambler
73 Yamaha TX 750
|
|
|
Re: Will not start, electrial !
|
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 371 Likes: 2
Adjunct
|
|
Adjunct
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 371 Likes: 2 |
I had a similar problem once. I took it to an auto electrician, he came wiggled the leads, tightened them and bang off she went. Charged me a $1 to do it. First thing I check these days.
A dog, a bike, a ute,
Now in the deep south.. Newcastle.
Cold winters, cold rain
Come on summer
|
|
|
Re: Will not start, electrial !
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,268 Likes: 15
Saddle Sore
|
|
OP
Saddle Sore
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,268 Likes: 15 |
Well I have replaced the battery,starter relay and the starter solenoid. And you guessed it, still clickety click.
When I made the jumper for the solenoid it was kinda crappy and the bike turned over slow. I made a better one and it turns over real slow, starter maybe?
I have checked all connections, 12.4 volts, I'm stumped.
|
|
|
Re: Will not start, electrial !
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 9,223
Big Bore
|
|
Big Bore
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 9,223 |
Mike, I'm thinking you have a bad ground somewhere now.
"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity" - Robert Heinlein
|
|
|
Re: Will not start, electrial !
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,268 Likes: 15
Saddle Sore
|
|
OP
Saddle Sore
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,268 Likes: 15 |
Phil, maybe. I'm going to dive into this thing a little deeper tomorrow.
I have checked and rechecked all the connections but I'm going to go over it again.
Keep in mind the bike started 5 times before it finally went co-puts. Acts just like a dead battery, this battery is very strong. It has done this on and off on occasion.
The battery is pushing out 12.4 volts, I dunno know it's a weird one.
|
|
|
Re: Will not start, electrial !
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 9,223
Big Bore
|
|
Big Bore
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 9,223 |
These intermittent electrical problems will drive you friggin crazy!  The only thing I can suggest is to unbolt all starting circuit connections, scape/sand everything clean, apply some dielectric grease, and re-assemble. If you do all that and with what you have replaced and still having problems, I'd start suspecting the starter and the solenoid on it. That you should be able to take to a good shop and have it tested.
"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity" - Robert Heinlein
|
|
|
Re: Will not start, electrial !
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,063 Likes: 8
Loquacious
|
|
Loquacious
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,063 Likes: 8 |
You need to perform some voltage drop tests.
1. Place voltmeter across battery & record voltage when cranking starter. Get it when cranking and clicking if possible, especially if the starter is turning slowly. Shouldn't drop below 9.6 volts. If lower make sure the battery is charged up and try again. If still low the starter might be at fault or you could have a bad/corroded connection acting like a big resistor which you will have to find. If the voltage is really high when the no start condition takes place (clickity click) check for loose connections. You could have some worn out brushes on the starter which could give you this or loose ground from the brushes inside the starter. I think the starter is supposed to be sealed. If you remove it, oil could drain from the engine. Might be contaminated with oil??? Not sure. Looking at a breakdown of the starter, the brushes are servicable.
2. Place + lead on solenoid terminal (large one) closest to battery and - lead on large terminal closest to starter. Crank and record voltage (should be really low around .1 volts) This will check the resistance of the terminals on and in the solenoid. Probably do not need to do this since you changed the solenoid but this will eliminate guessing.
3. Place + voltmeter lead to - battery terminal and - voltmeter lead somewhere on bare metal of frame. Crank engine. Voltage should be less than .5 volts. If higher, you have a bad ground connection from the battery to frame.
There are many more checks you can make but this should help narrow things out a bit.
12 Rocket Roadster
03 Bonneville America
69 BSA Firebird Scrambler
73 Yamaha TX 750
|
|
|
Re: Will not start, electrial !
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,063 Likes: 8
Loquacious
|
|
Loquacious
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,063 Likes: 8 |
If it is the starter, don't buy a new one. As bonnyusa stated have it tested. It should be repairable for a lot less than new. If you need brushes and can't get them easily, an electronic shop should be able to set you up with generic ones.
12 Rocket Roadster
03 Bonneville America
69 BSA Firebird Scrambler
73 Yamaha TX 750
|
|
|
Re: Will not start, electrial !
|
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,254
Oil Expert
|
|
Oil Expert
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,254 |
well after letting the bike sit since wednesday night, i fired it up last night no problems . went to start this morning and guess what, turned over but no start then clickety clickity . ive been checking the battery every day with the volt meter and its stayed around 12.5ish ,checked last night after 4 nights and it was 12.4 and started no problem checked with meter when i got home today and 12.33. jumped the solenoid and it cranked over but very slowly .will be trying Greggers suggestions tomorrow .i wonder if anyone named Lucas works for triumph in the electrical dept
|
|
|
Re: Will not start, electrial !
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,268 Likes: 15
Saddle Sore
|
|
OP
Saddle Sore
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,268 Likes: 15 |
Celt, You just described my symptoms to a tee. Currently my bike is starting. Last night I took both ground connections loose. Nothing was even remotely corroded but I did it anyway Used my dremel tool and a wire wheel. Polished everything even remotely connected to the ground,battery terminals,all leads,engine block,etc.. Di electric grease on all connections. Now I just ride and see what happens. Mike If it happens again I'm pulling the starter.
|
|
|
Re: Will not start, electrial !
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 166
Adjunct
|
|
Adjunct
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 166 |
This just started happening to me as well. Don't know if it's intermittant or not as it won't start now and it just happened today.
Did you end up having to pull your starter? I'm still under warranty but I want to know what I'm talking about when I call the dealer.
Andrew
Last edited by SpiderFox; 08/26/2007 6:32 PM.
Doesn't everybody's life revolve around food?
"Remember,
People are more violently opposed to fur than leather because it's safer to harass rich women than motorcycle gangs."
|
|
|
Re: Will not start, electrial !
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 11,126 Likes: 13
Should be Riding
|
|
Should be Riding
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 11,126 Likes: 13 |
"I want to do know" omg that was funny.
Forget about it man, it'll never happen. lol
Blowing gravel off rural roads
|
|
|
Re: Will not start, electrial !
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 11,126 Likes: 13
Should be Riding
|
|
Should be Riding
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 11,126 Likes: 13 |
Okay, my ribs hurt but I'll try again... Start with the stuff you need to do anyhow. Clean battery connections up. Clean solenoid contacts behind right airbox cover. Clean ground strap connection. Clean starter power cable connection. No go? Pull tank. Check starter relay. Call dealer now. (Use past tense;  I cleaned the bat'tree connections,...
Blowing gravel off rural roads
|
|
|
Re: Will not start, electrial !
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,268 Likes: 15
Saddle Sore
|
|
OP
Saddle Sore
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,268 Likes: 15 |
Guys, I have removed and wire brushed everything associated with the starter. Replaced the relay,starter solenoid. Checked all connections, all fuses and re greased. Not a bit of corrosion anywhere. I even cleaned the block and bolts with a wire brush I cleaned the start button with contact cleaner. The only thing left is the starter. I have suspected the starter from the beginning. Everyone seems to think it's not the starter. Well I will find out next week.I purchased a used starter from a member. I'm going to pull my starter and take both to have tested. We'll see. If that's not it I might have a beautiful 03 America for sale. This shat is getting old. Mike
Last edited by mikemm03; 08/27/2007 5:10 PM.
|
|
|
Re: Will not start, electrial !
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 166
Adjunct
|
|
Adjunct
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 166 |
Quote:
Guys, I have removed and wire brushed everything associated with the starter. Replaced the relay,starter solenoid. Checked all connections, all fuses and re greased. Not a bit of corrosion anywhere.
I even cleaned the block and bolts with a wire brush
I cleaned the start button with contact cleaner. The only thing left is the starter. I have suspected the starter from the beginning. Everyone tells me it's not the starter.
Well I will find out next week.I purchased a used starter from a member. I'm going to pull my starter and take both to have tested.
We'll see. If that's not it I might have a beautiful 03 America for sale. This shat is getting old.
Mike
Just to add fuel to your fire, mine definately wasn't the starter. RobBA's solution has (temporarily) fixed my problem. Now all I have to do is call the dealer and get them to figure which it is, the solenoid, relay or starter switch.
Andrew
Last edited by SpiderFox; 08/27/2007 10:28 AM.
Doesn't everybody's life revolve around food?
"Remember,
People are more violently opposed to fur than leather because it's safer to harass rich women than motorcycle gangs."
|
|
|
Re: Will not start, electrial !
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,268 Likes: 15
Saddle Sore
|
|
OP
Saddle Sore
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,268 Likes: 15 |
Robs, solutation is a good one. This of course this never worked for me. When I tried this on several ocassions the starter turned over very slowly and would not fire.
I have replace the relay, solenoid,battery. The olny things left are the start button and the starter.
Mike
|
|
|
Re: Will not start, electrial !
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,197 Likes: 56
Fe Butt
|
|
Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,197 Likes: 56 |
I used Robs method on my tow truck when I had a bad solinoid. It works. Never tried it a bike but I know many HD riders who are friends of mine who have. There is even an after market starter end with the button already in it for those guys.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
|
|
|
Re: Will not start, electrial !
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,268 Likes: 15
Saddle Sore
|
|
OP
Saddle Sore
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,268 Likes: 15 |
Ok, I thought I would put and end to this novel.
Apperantly the regulator was the culprit. This thing toasted two batteries. I replaced the regulator, installed the third battery and presto magnifico she runs.
During my trails and tribulations I replaced the starter relay,solnoid,starter,regulator,ignition switch,coils,three batteries. Checked and dielectric greased every switch,bulb,spade clip,fuse,ground several times.
Special thanks to Chy for the moral support and technical advice. Special thanks to Bikerthug. Several transplanted organs from BT's Speedy are know roaming the hills of Tennessee.
Mike
|
|
|
Re: Will not start, electrial !
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 9,223
Big Bore
|
|
Big Bore
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 9,223 |
Good deal Mike. On the bright side, you now have lots of spare parts!
"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity" - Robert Heinlein
|
|
|
|
|
