Bonneville America Forums Forums Off Topic Discussion Forums Lounge Angry Rant: Michael Vick

Yup raised dogs all my life...Sister was a trainer, mother worked for the FBI with her dogs, both Mother and sister were active Search and Rescue with their dogs...Pit bulls have been systematicly bread for their aggressive behavior...not all but the vast majority...they are not the only breed to have this fate dealt to them....but it is a sad truth...and agressiveness is not the only issue at hand...

Labs have been over bread because of their disposition and much of what makes tham so attractive has been lost due to over breeding sad truths

blinded by propoganda

Agreed, different breeds have different tendencies. One of my dogs is a Siberian Husky, sweet tempered but occasionally stubborn. Likes to dig, sit in a kiddie pool when it’s hot and make me chase her when she gets loose. She wouldn’t consider biting a person or another dog (except her kennel mate) and makes a truly pathetic watchdog. Every one of the things that Husky breeders say about them is true of her.

My other dog is a big male Chow. Territorial, tends to be dog aggressive with other large males, devoted to his family and would eagerly tear hunks of flesh off anyone who hurts his people. Just like Chow breeders say he should be.

Other than basic (VERY basic) obedience training, neither has had any real training. They live in the same house and are spoiled rotten. While they each have their own distinct personalities they display both the physical and behavioral traits their breeds were developed to have.

I love them both but I know I can’t trust the Chow around large male dogs and I can’t let the Husky out of the yard off the leash.

I had a rotweiler for a while. Ushi was a very lovable dog who got on well with the other dogs I had at the time. We were having a major rainstorm and the street was flooded. The OL looked out and thought she saw a duck swimming and diving, then realized it was a dogs head that she saw. We took her in and nursed her back to health. She weighed less than half her normal weight and was pooping fastfood wrappers for the first week. When she was well, we had to find her a home because there is some stupid arbitrary law in LA county that people aren't allowed to have more than 3 pets.

I agree with Ron.
Different dog breeds came about because they were used for different purposes.
The ones with the desirable traits whether retrievers, herders, racers, fighters, etc., were kept. Those that didn't measure up weren't.
That's why there are different breeds.
If I want to hunt ducks, I'm taking a Lab or a Golden.
If it's pheasant I'm after, it's a Weimaraner or an English setter.
Herding? Border collie, Shepard.
And so on and so on.

The bottom line here, dogs that were bred for aggression tend to be innately more aggressive.
Can they be docile? Of course they can, but how can you tell how they'll turn out?
And no. It's not (always) the owner. I've always had, and always will have, dogs.
I obedience train them, and they are always loved and never abused.

Here's a list of the dogs I've had:
Bree, Giant Schnauzer/Lab; My and my wife's first dog. And our best.Extremely intelligent, instinctively protective of her family. An intimidating dog to those she didn't know, but very obedient so it was never a problem. Had her for thirteen years

Bucky, just a mutt (looked to be a beagle/greyhound, but I can't say for sure). He was a stray that my wife didn't have the heart to call the pound on, so he became ours. Dug holes in my yard (that I stepped in and sprained my ankle ), but he killed mice and pigeons . Had him for fourteen years.

Belle, saved her from the pound. German Shepard/Lab/Pit Bull. A very intelligent dog that loved to play volleyball with balloons over the back of my couch.
But Belle was aggressive, and became more so as she got older. When she was three she snarled and snapped at one of my nieces who was not bothering her. She (Belle) had been showing other signs of aggression too.
Belle was three when she died (humanely, and it broke my heart).

Skylar, a Beagle. What a pain in the rear. But she was a love. We lost her last year to kidney failure.

Star, our current Golden Retriever. Seven years old. I think I'll stick with Goldens from here out.

Oh, and so it's not a hijack:
Vick? Drag him behind a truck.

And so Dwight walks another "fine line" while baiting lesser life forms...

Ooh...it appears Mr.TURNER wants some of this TOO, huh???!!!

Nope, I already had to issue one "mea culpa" this week...just a little tease to keep this lively

Only ONE!!!

And I had so much hope for you here!

Just trying to behave after taking the bait...

Bait?! Well, I usually use this special little fly around here that has multiple "barbs" on it.(if you've noticed)

This here thing works wonders in catchin' unsuspecting "fish".

(makes for a "lively" ol' time around here sometimes, ya know)

Yep, Bill! And then I have to resort to swipein' pic-a-nic baskets! Oh the shame of it all!

In all fairness.

The fish do live in a barrel

Yep! Sometimes it IS "easy pickin'" 'round here, Amigo!

(sometimes about as "fair" as what the Falcon QB does to his dogs...."allegedly", of course)

Nice analogy there.

The training and conditioning is probably very similar.
(If not the breeding).

Oh, the "breeding" might be VERY important in this regard, Bill!

I AM a MUTT, ya know.(my parent's adopted me without regard to any lineage....oh were THEY surprised!!!)

There!!!
Ya see Ian.
No tellin' how they'll turn out.

How's that for a segue back to the subject .

Smooooooth, very smoooooth, Bill.

But I'm still with Ian on this one, Bill. In the Nature/Nurture debate, I'm firmly and without reservation in the Nurture Camp, because as I said before, I've seen scores of Pit Bulls at the dog park who are pussycats...by NURTURE!

Yeah, yeah, that's what I get for swatting at the nuisances while doing business on the phone. (get away you little ankle nippers)

God put dogs on the earth for our enjoyment, Mohamed sponsored dog fights, Republicans accept zillions of bucks every year from the NPBFA (National Pit Bull Fighting Association)and the Democrats are mad because they didn't get the contributions.

Those who fight dogs come from a race so the fight may be racist in nature.

Oh, Ian is a Harley rider and Dwight rides a Vespa. but critical to this conversation.

On topic: Vick is a low human being. I would love to drop him in a pit. A bullet is a waste of money for these types of people.

Good ridance, bring out Joey Harrington......Im a long time Falcon fan, and think this is a good thing....what kind of idiot, on the way to the ground during a sack, throws the ball strait up, not just once, but, like everytime...MORON

I'd rather he spent a lifetime mucking stalls at some SPCA. Then he'd really be working at his own level...

Well, it's not like animal abuse is a capital crime.

Vick- This is so ironic. You guys argue between nature and nurture on the dogs, but what about Vick? Isn't he just a "hard" brother that suddenly has money? You know-, "I grew up with nuthin' (not you, Nathen), and look at me now" crap. You can take the rat out of the hood, but you can't take the hood out of the rat...

This isn't a racial comment. It's about upbringing and learning how to conduct yourself. If Vick fought dogs as a child, why stop when he has some dough?

Isn't it the same for dogs? I've got a chow that a sweetheart. Had rotties and pits, too. The meanest dog I've ever seen is my black lab, and two years latter, he is awesome- sweetest dog ever. Dogs are programmed genetically with behavioral patterns- just like every living creature on this earth. If they are the dominant, they will behave accordingly. If their is another dominant, they will work it out. There can only be one. The rest will follow like a pack -or be eliminated. Dominance does not have to be aggressive physical (physical hitting and aggression is actually bad- it causes aggression in return). Emotional control with a gentle physical correction dictates dominance and authority.

long winded point being- it isn't the breed. a Pit can be gentle and trusting, just as a small dog can be taught to not be hyper and snippy. A small dog charging and "ankle biting" is the same level of aggression as a pit, just less damage. the insanity is that for some reason a snapping terrier is "cute" and a pit needs to be put down.

Stupid People Suck.

I have had a couple of pits and would own another. I believe, and have read things to back it up, that a pit is not anymore likely to attack a human than any other dog - they just do more damage. One of the problems with pits is their popularity, there are just so many of them thanks to back yard breeders. Sure there are going to be more pit bites- pits outnumber many other kinds of dogs, and unfortunately unresponsible thug types are attracted to them. Another problem is the media - they couldn't tell the difference between a pit, a boxer, or a rot. I LMAO when a local news program was reporting a vicious pit attack and they showed a pic of some long haired dog.

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Vick- This is so ironic. You guys argue between nature and nurture on the dogs, but what about Vick? Isn't he just a "hard" brother that suddenly has money? You know-, "I grew up with nuthin' (not you, Nathen), and look at me now" crap. You can take the rat out of the hood, but you can't take the hood out of the rat...

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While environment does definitely play a role in ones attitudes, the comparison with dogs misses one thing.

Human beings have a choice in how they behave.
That's why we make laws and expect them to be obeyed.
Unlike the other creatures on this planet that act by instinct alone (and training is using the natural instincts), Humans have the capability to choose their actions, and behaviors.

Vick is the only one accountable for his actions since he is an adult human being.

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One of the problems with pits is their popularity, there are just so many of them thanks to back yard breeders.

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That also leads to irresponsible breeding where aggressiveness (not trainability, pit bulls don't need to be trained to fight) is the desired trait.

And of course we know the hazards of inbreeding.
(Someone should have fun with that )

For some reason Bill, all I can think of right now is that scene in "Chinatown" where Faye Dunaway says to Jack Nicholson..."She's my sister!"(slap) "She's my daughter!"(slap) "She's my sister!"(slap) "She's my daughter!"(slap)



(well THAT and the fact that pampered pro athletes since the time they're found as children to possess the abilities to throw a ball harder, run a little faster, or shoot a ball at a basket a little more accurately than the other kids, are conditioned[i.e. "nurtured"] by society to expect preferential treatment)

Who the F*&^ is Michael Vick?

football player

Frank