 Marijuana Legalization Question
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I read the AUP and am asking for a ruling here, but please consider this. This subject is a tad political, not religious at all, could be considered a bit controversial if the audience isn't mature enough for rational discussion, unlike the members here. I just believe that this subject is interesting enough to discuss with the learned and wise members of BonnevilleAmerica.com. I believe that the posesion/manufacture of marijuana should be legalized and unregulated. Well, not so much 'legalized', but not prosecuted. Let's face it, the harmful effects of marijuana are far less than the harmful effects of another legal substance..... alcohol. Those of you who have partaken of both will most likely agree with that statement. I, in my wilder, youthful, days had the occasion to imbibe both substances and will attest that I was more dangerous to myself and society at large when under the effects of alcohol than marijuana. I believe that the only reason marijuana is not legal in the US is because the Gov't hasn't figured out a way to profit from it yet. Problem is that the stuff grows naturally in almost every state in the union, as well as most countries globally. It's a naturally occuring substance that needs NO processing or manufacturing to be what it is. That's a capitalist's worst nightmare. Alcohol, on the other hand, is NOT made by nature. It takes distillation/processing and manipulation by MAN to make it what it is. AND, because it must be processed, it is easily regulated and taxed. The government loves substances that can be taxed so they can profit from them (okay, that just made this post 'political'). ANYHOO, if this post makes it through the moderators, I'm curious - Do you think Marijuana should be legalized, and why? Please keep your comments rational, unemotional and substantive. This is a serious question and deserves serious consideration. Thanks. BTW - I am a recently retired US military veteran with over 20 years of service who has not touched marijuana since before the day I first put the uniform on. Please don't think I'm a closet "Pot Head". I just believe that marijuana is WAY less harmful than alcohol.
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Okay, there have been quite a few 'viewers' and no responses. It's okay to express your opinion. This isn't Orwell's 1984. Let's hear it.
Last edited by 03Cruiser; 07/04/2007 2:09 AM.
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 Re: Marijuana Legalization Question
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Check Pants
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Legalize...yes and no. Yes, so it gets it off the street and then it can be taxed. No, cause if you tax it no one will buy it and they’ll grow it anyway. Yes, so quality can be controlled and remove the danger of laced substances. No, cause I don’t really want to be run down by some jacknut that’s high driving a semi (no offense to trucker, just an example). But then again what’s stopping anyone nowadays so isn’t this really a moot point. I don’t partake but at 36 years of age I am running into more and more closet smokers than ever in my life. I wonder what brings this out at this age and why I dint see it when I was younger. I prefer alcohol to other substances and I’m responsible enough to know when I should and shouldn’t drink. Anyone see the Hippies thing on History channel? It was interesting to find out that LSD came from our government and wasn’t illegal till the 60s. It only became illegal when the physical "look" of users changed and the general "public" didn’t approve of the new look and music. Anyhow…I see it as a double edged sword. 
SOLD: 07 Black BA, 39mm FCRs, TPUSA stage 1 head, TPUSA 813 cams, TPUSA 10.8:1 pistons, TTP #3 igniter, Specialty Spares Long Cannons, Tsukayu Hard Bags. 82HP/55tq
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 Re: Marijuana Legalization Question
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"No, cause I don’t really want to be run down by some jacknut that’s high driving a semi (no offense to trucker, just an example)."
That's exactly the currently existing risk you face every day with alcohol being legal. I've heard the same story for the last 25 years. "I don't want to have a bus driver/pilot/trucker/etc... smoking pot driving my bus/plane/etc"... You know what? That's exactly what's happening right now exept those exact same folks have been drinking alcohol instead of smoking marijuana. The exact same "Under the influence/While intoxicated" laws should apply to the Marijuana user as well as the alcohol user. It's a legislative issue at the most.
"I prefer alcohol to other substances and I’m responsible enough to know when I should and shouldn’t drink."
True enough. The exact same attitude applies to pot smokers. I applaud you on your maturity and control. Do you think that marijuana smokers have less control than you do?
"Anyone see the Hippies thing on History channel? It was interesting to find out that LSD came from our government and wasn’t illegal till the 60s."
I didn't see that, but I'm not concerned with LSD. That's another of those substances that has to be processed by MAN. Pot grows in the wild without any intervention by humans.
"Anyhow…I see it as a double edged sword."
Definitely, would you please elaborate on that? I am interested in hearing exactly what your thoughts are.
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Bar Shake
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Should be legal, but regulated. Just like alcohol, weed shouldn't be available to minors. Using should be an adult decision made by adults. Yeah, I know. Minors get booze, and they'd get the weed too, but it would be harder than it is now where no I.D. is required. Legalization would disrupt an entire criminal enterprise of distributors, and stop a lot of people from going to prison for possession who should never be there anyway. I don't think that the fact that people could grow their own is a determining factor in pot being illegal. True, some would but most would be happy to buy tailor mades at the store and pay the associated taxes. Just like some people like to brew their own beer, or make their own wine. But most prefer to just buy it. The real reasons may get too political (if this isn't already) but suffice it to say that it has to do with control and personal moral decisions being forced on a populace. P.S. I don't smoke pot either. (Ignore Phineas, Freewheelin' Franklin, and Fat Freddie there  )
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
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Who cares? I don't know a single person who does not smoke Pot because it is illegal. Your assertion sounds like for some reason pot is good and will cure all the ills of society. Pot is everywhere, its cheap, and rarely enforced. So, again who cares? I can just visualize 1/2 my neighbors wringing their hands saying "wow, I hope they make it legal so we can smoke some after all these years of not doing it." All will be right with the world. Its a stair step arrest drug. Meaning the police like to pinch folks for pot to get information on the other harder drug movements. I say make it all legal and let the losers fry their brains and save the 40 Billion a year spent on enforcement that doesn't work. We discuss this while the fat police are busy looking in your cabinets and the legal industry of tobacco is being destroyed by law, taxes, and social attack in every city in America. So if you can't smoke in public, where to fire up that bong!!! Regulation will have it every other Thursday in an concrete bunker with air filters 1000' away from anybody with more than 3 brain cells. The tax will exceed the illegal street value now. Regulate it! We can't even enforce it! 
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
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wow...I give an opinion then it gets dissected. That’s cool though. Double edged sword meaning your ****** if you do and ****** if you don’t.
Legalize it and now you have to tax it and control distribution etc...more cost that gets passed to the consumer and really...it grows everywhere. It’s like a weed (haha...LMAO)...seriously though. If it was easy to grow tobacco and roll my own cigars I would do it instead of paying upwards of $25 a stick for a great smoke. But I can’t so I pay. Pot on the other hand grows in a person’s closet with a heat lamp on it. Why would anyone buy it legally and pay tax on it! Legalize it and you can free up the $$ we spend on convicting small time users and free up some prison space. Now we get into a whole other realm of a conversation and I just don’t feel like typing that much right now. Don’t legalize and things stay the same. People use it by their own free will and will keep doing so but risk the possibility of getting caught. Don’t legalize it and you keep the mystery around it and we all know we want what we can’t have and now we have made it desirable to try and do.
Alcohol…I like it, I prefer it and yes…I know…it’s really no different. Alcohol impairs as does pot. I hope I didn’t give the impression one was better than the other…neither is one way or another. Yes, I smoke cigars and no they aren’t any better (in the long run) than cigarettes except that cigarettes make me gag and cigars smell good to me (relax smokers…I said to me, not to everyone). If I could and one day I will, Ill take up smoking a pipe…cause I like the aroma. Its still going to give me cancer and kill me.
You see…â€Âdouble edged sword†means the conversation can go on forever and there is no end as there is no right answer. I can debate this all day and night and I don’t even need someone to do it with.
Heck…legalize it, lets see what happens. In a few years if things are out of control then ban it. Maybe the problem gets worse maybe it gets better.
Do you think society is ready for this!? Isn’t that the real issue/question here! I for one can go either way, leaglize it...great, Im still not buying (at least I dont think so). Keep it illegal...fine, I dont use it anyway! Didnt like it when I did those few times. I suppose if alcohol didnt make me feel the way it did I woudnt drink it and if cigars didnt calm me down like they do I wouldnt smoke them. Was that a big enough circle for ya?
SOLD: 07 Black BA, 39mm FCRs, TPUSA stage 1 head, TPUSA 813 cams, TPUSA 10.8:1 pistons, TTP #3 igniter, Specialty Spares Long Cannons, Tsukayu Hard Bags. 82HP/55tq
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 Re: Marijuana Legalization Question
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Quote:
"No, cause I don’t really want to be run down by some jacknut that’s high driving a semi (no offense to trucker, just an example)."
That's exactly the currently existing risk you face every day with alcohol being legal. I've heard the same story for the last 25 years. "I don't want to have a bus driver/pilot/trucker/etc... smoking pot driving my bus/plane/etc"... You know what? That's exactly what's happening right now exept those exact same folks have been drinking alcohol instead of smoking marijuana. The exact same "Under the influence/While intoxicated" laws should apply to the Marijuana user as well as the alcohol user. It's a legislative issue at the most.
Your right! Quote:
"I prefer alcohol to other substances and I’m responsible enough to know when I should and shouldn’t drink."
True enough. The exact same attitude applies to pot smokers. I applaud you on your maturity and control. Do you think that marijuana smokers have less control than you do?
Your right again! Quote:
"Anyone see the Hippies thing on History channel? It was interesting to find out that LSD came from our government and wasn’t illegal till the 60s."
I didn't see that, but I'm not concerned with LSD. That's another of those substances that has to be processed by MAN. Pot grows in the wild without any intervention by humans.
This matters cause its a prime example of how society decided that what was good for so may years both socially and medically all of a sudden became a bad thing.
SOLD: 07 Black BA, 39mm FCRs, TPUSA stage 1 head, TPUSA 813 cams, TPUSA 10.8:1 pistons, TTP #3 igniter, Specialty Spares Long Cannons, Tsukayu Hard Bags. 82HP/55tq
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Phil C
If you dont believe there's a price for this sweet paradise
Remind me to show you the scars...
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Loquacious
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Thought I'd throw this in.. same discussion from awhile back.
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Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
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Why would anyone want to legalize the nation's #1 cash crop and bring an end to the crime world's multi billion dollar black market? That would be too sensible.
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
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You could try banning alcohol, again, but then Mark and Matt wouldn't have any breakfast. 
He was fun while he lasted.
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Saddle Sore
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Saddle Sore
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Decriminalize it. Let's stop spending millions to fight this particular "War on Drugs" Now if want to talk about a real drug issue in the US Crystal Methamphetamine is the most dangerous drug readily availible to our nations youth. That my friends is a very serious issue.
Hey man how's my driving? Uh, wow man I think were parked! Mike
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Loquacious
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No. They call it dope for a reason. 
Kevin - Luceo Non Uro
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I had to laugh when I saw, onthe main board, Speedmaster05 Legalize marijuana
Erwin 05 America
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Worn Saddle
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I always liked Bill Cosby's take - "So, they say drugs enhance your personality, what happens when an a-hole takes drugs?"
A word to the wise is not necessary. It is the stupid ones who need the advice.
Pat
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Loquacious
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Quote:
I always liked Bill Cosby's take - "So, they say drugs enhance your personality, what happens when an a-hole takes drugs?"
He goes into politics.
The percentage you're paying is too high-priced
While you're living beyond all your means
And the man in the suit has just bought a new car
From the profit he's made on your dreams
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"Lighten up, Francis."
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Or becomes a moderator. Cuz you have to be on drugs to take that job.
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I think the whole issue is ahhhhh wait ahhhhh what was the question? Did you hear that? Ah man I'm hungry. Hey Dinq, I resemble that remark. Legalize it, I need something that makes money to put in my fields and empty houses.(without the risk of losing everything I own.)
Last edited by Larkfarms; 07/04/2007 10:19 AM.
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Learned Hand
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Legalizing marijuana would also entail modification of current drug testing for FAA and DOT employees...and any other safety sensitive field. Right now, THC can be detected in a persons system (depending on weight, amount ingested, frequency of use, and time between use and testing) for up to a month, so that would have to be adjusted to detect use only for the past 8 hours or so, same as alcohol (8 hours from bottle to stick)...
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I'm not a fan of marijuana. Not in the I think it should be illegal way but more in the former pot head, I know first hand that it slows me down mentally, makes me lazy, kills all motivation to do anything kinda way. It's just not my bag. I'm am a huge supporter of personal choice though, after living in Italy for two years and traveling around Europe extensively during that time, I don't believe that we live in a free country. We live in a country where we're told to walk in a straight line and follow a preset path that someone else chose for us and if we decide that that straight line isn't for us, it's jail, even less "freedom." If some one wants to smoke pot, even if it makes them non-productive members of society that should be their choice (I'm not saying that it effects everyone the same way, I'm just speaking from personal expierence.) But my belief in personal choice doen't stop there (off topic [sorry, you got me on a rant]) Prostitution, once again not my thing but two words CONSENTING ADULTS. If they'd like to exchange money over the interaction why nt? Speeding, ok this one might be an issue of safety but in other countries people go to school for upwards of 4-6 months to learn to drive, I went for two weeks. I really think that that we should learn more about driving before we are put on the road and up the speed limits. Also we shouldn't be allowed to use cell phones, in dash DVD players, or any of the millions of distracting gagets on the market today while driving, studies show that a person has the same amount of concentration while talking on a phone and driving as a person whos drinking and driving. Just thought I'd throw that in there.
Let my dying thought be that every mile was fun and let my tombstone read,"They never made one fast enough for me."
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 Re: Marijuana Legalization Question
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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pot made me sleepy & meth made me stay up too long.
we should do this every weekend!
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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I think we should all slow down and take a long hard serious look at this issue, gentlemen. May I suggest a viewing of this seemingly well researched documentary film which was produced a few years back before we decide on any future course that this country should take..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bM_vLk1I6G4(Warning: For the younger set out there who only like to watch movies filmed in vivid Technicolor, this "documentary" was filmed in vivid Black And White some years back, but hang in there kids, it's well worth the viewing, and it's so realistic too...at least that's what I hear)
Last edited by Dwight; 07/04/2007 11:42 AM.
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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Make it legal. I then would not have such a hard time finding some. It is too expensive to buy, and contrary to popular belief it is expensive to grow.
if life gives you lemons keep them because hey,free lemons.
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Excellent discussion. I really appreciate the fact that it has been kpt rational and intelligent.
Zmilin, Didn't mean to pick on you. You were just the first reply.
I also didn't realize that this topic has previously been discussed for 9+ pages. I should have searched the subject before starting this post.
Thanks for the well-thought-out responses everyone. Have a Great Independance Day!!!
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Learned Hand
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Yes, Then we could free up some of the folks running around trying to catch drug dealers and have them check more of the contaminated food products being imported into this country. And you could catch a nice buzz at the end of a stressful work day. And if you could buy at your local pot store ,then we wouldn't have to go into these questionable areas and deal with guys named  big red and cool mo fo. Not that I smoke pot. I was just thinking about what the poor guy who does most go through.
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Excelent choice in well prepaired documentaries Dwight. Here's one where they tested the effects of different drugs on different spiders. The results are shocking. See for yourself... Effects of drugs on Spiders
Let my dying thought be that every mile was fun and let my tombstone read,"They never made one fast enough for me."
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Q: Quote:
Why would anyone want to legalize the nation's #1 cash crop and bring an end to the crime world's multi billion dollar black market?
A: It's a Tri-Lateral Commission plot to prevent an epidemic of man-boobs. Now where did I put my "mansierre" (or "Bro" - not that there's anything wrong with that...)?
Last edited by wrwallpi; 07/04/2007 11:43 AM.
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Learned Hand
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It's always an interesting question regarding Marijuana. I just think back to when prohibition of Alcohol in the US was enforced. More alcohol was consumed during prohibition than before when it was legal. The government lost all kinds of money and a lot of crooks made obscene amounts of money like Joe Kennedy.
Tom
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin, US author, diplomat, inventor, physicist, politician, & printer (1706 - 1790)
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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Ahh but Tim, I noticed that the spiders who participated in this little experiment were Canadian spiders, and thus I'm wondering if the same results would be reached if good old American spiders would have been used.
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and hyPOThesize that much like canadian money, there would only be an 80 percent value of these findings holding true down here south of the 49th Parallel!!!
(BTW...I laughed my you-know-what off watching that)
Last edited by Dwight; 07/04/2007 12:03 PM.
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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 Re: Marijuana Legalization Question
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Quote:
Let's face it, the harmful effects of marijuana are far less than the harmful effects of another legal substance..... alcohol. Those of you who have partaken of both will most likely agree with that statement.
Disagree. Moderation works the same with both. Though the affects may differ, too much of either (or both) result in impairment.
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I believe that the only reason marijuana is not legal in the US is because the Gov't hasn't figured out a way to profit from it yet.
You’re kidding right? The government’s always figured out a way to make a profit. Now, what it does with the profit is another matter (search defecit).
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It's a naturally occuring substance that needs NO processing or manufacturing to be what it is. That's a capitalist's worst nightmare.
Much like the Coca plant, Opium Poppy, Ma-Huang (ephedra), and Tobacco (Winston is now additive free). Does “naturally occurring†make it or its affects safe or justified? Marijuana is routinely processed to increase the affect of THC, ie. hash and hemp oil.
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Do you think Marijuana should be legalized, and why?
Yes; only due to my very thin libertarian streak.
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Quote:
in other countries people go to school for upwards of 4-6 months to learn to drive, I went for two weeks. I really think that that we should learn more about driving before we are put on the road and up the speed limits. Also we shouldn't be allowed to use cell phones, in dash DVD players, or any of the millions of distracting gagets on the market today while driving
Not for nothing Arsnel - but you can't have your cake and eat it too. You say you want more personal freedom, and then two periods later your backing it up with more restrictions and more people telling me how to live my life. Which one is it?

Sometimes you get the bar, sometimes the bar gets you.
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"Lighten up, Francis."
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"Lighten up, Francis."
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Disclaimer: I've never done any illegal drugs but I've know a number of potsmokers, many who've tried more serious drugs. I know one biker who destroyed his life with meth and heroine, but I've heard about countless others. Ideologically as a libertarian (small "l") I think everything should be legal. But practically, as evil as the man-made drugs have become, they need to be illegal and battled. That said, I can easily enough draw the line between natural and man made. If it can be grown, it should be legal. If it's created by modern chemistry in a lab (even if that "lab" is in someone's basement like the meth lab they busted in my neighborhood) it should be illegal. Sorry, acid trippers. I am 100% behind the Montana Meth campaign, which is being exported to a number of other states. But the similar pot campaign is ridiculous and a waste of money.
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None of our elected lawmakers are going to introduce a bill to legalize marijuana. The only logical step would be a push toward decriminalization while public awareness and enforcement options can be accessed. I lived through the "hippie" period, made my living in the entertainment business, and did whatever drugs where commonplace at the time.
I now live a much different lifestyle and have no social friends that use illegal substances. I disagree with one earlier statement about choice. At this time in my life, the fact that it is illegal does make a big difference. I don't really want any as I would probably be using it alone, but I definitely would not go through the risk of illegally obtaining it when I can do without.
With decriminalization, the majority's attitude would slowly change and there might be increased social acceptance (outside of illegal drug cultures). Unfortunately, I don't think I'll be around long enough to see change that would affect me.
Bob
2005 America, 904cc - sold. 2014 Trophy SE.
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Good thing Phil is on vacation!
we should do this every weekend!
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Quote:
Quote:
in other countries people go to school for upwards of 4-6 months to learn to drive, I went for two weeks. I really think that that we should learn more about driving before we are put on the road and up the speed limits. Also we shouldn't be allowed to use cell phones, in dash DVD players, or any of the millions of distracting gagets on the market today while driving
Not for nothing Arsnel - but you can't have your cake and eat it too. You say you want more personal freedom, and then two periods later your backing it up with more restrictions and more people telling me how to live my life. Which one is it?
Telling someone not to use a cell phone or watch a DVD while driving isn't telling someone how to live their life, it's telling someone not to end my life. In 2003 almost every highway fatatily involved alchol. Studies show that a person talking on a cell phone has the same amount of concentration as someone who's drinking and driving. If you want to smoke pot, by all means, smoke pot. If you want to shoot herione, do it, **** up your life, really, that's your choice. If you want to put my life at risk, I'll get a little upset at that. Since almost all deaths on the highway were caused by alcohol consumption on someones part, speeding isn't putting someone eles's life at risk as long as the proper schooling is implimented like it is in other countries. We're not taught anything but the fundamentals, we're not taught anything about adverse conditions other than to turn into the slide. There is so many aspects of driving we're not taught before we're giving the keys to 2000 pounds of steel and told to figure the rest out for ourselves. That's why I get so much more upset about bad drivers when I'm on my bike than when I'm in my Jeep, if someone hits me when I'm in my Jeep, I'll have to get the insurance company to fix it, they hit me on my bike and that's my life! If I want to risk my life, it's my life to do it with, if someone want's to play with my life, I'll let them know it's not appreciated with the marbles that I keep in my pocket. Speed away as long as you're paying attention but if my life is less important to you than the new DVD you just bought yes I'm gonna get upset. 
Let my dying thought be that every mile was fun and let my tombstone read,"They never made one fast enough for me."
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 Re: Marijuana Legalization Question
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,026
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,026 |
"I want absolute freedom, but here are some laws I think we need" ( paraphrased, or should I say summarized )...thats rich!
Drugs should be as they are illegal. The use of said drugs should be prosecuted, for when a price is to be paid for the use, the complete ignorance of the law wouldnt be so cavalier ( say you get caught, you pay a stiff fine, say $5K ), that can alter one's thinking too.
Our Liberties We Prize and Our Rights We Will Maintain
If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and will never be.----Thomas Jefferson
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 Re: Marijuana Legalization Question
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
Gotta agree with Tim here... "Oh what a tangled web we weave, when 'er we drive high on THC!"(or alcohol, OR any drug for that matter...but nicotine and caffeine that is...I do THAT all the time, I'm sorry to say) 
Last edited by Dwight; 07/04/2007 1:34 PM.
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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 Re: Marijuana Legalization Question
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,932 Likes: 2
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,932 Likes: 2 |
what we really need is to make hand grenades legal.
we should do this every weekend!
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 Re: Marijuana Legalization Question
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
Oh GEEEEEZ Yota. You gotta know if that happens, the lawyers would be all over it!!!
They'd want each and every hand grenade produced for public comsumption to have the following disclaimer attached to it.....
"Warning: Do NOT eat this device. This is NOT a pineapple!"
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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