 Re: Fuel
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,639 Likes: 3
Old Hand
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Old Hand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,639 Likes: 3 |
Quote:
Post Script, I did learn about octane ratings here, so thats a good thing. My questions back to ya would be what about carbon deposits? My understanding is that the high grade fuels succumb to higher refinement processes are therefore cleaner burning and typically leave less carbon residue. Is this folly?
Since higher octane ratings mean longer ignition times high grade gas, if anything, will make more carbon deposits. It's not so much that it gets refined more, it just has different additives.
Let's hope there's intelligent life somewhere in space 'cause it's buggar all down here. -- Monte Python
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Re: Fuel
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,219 Likes: 61
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,219 Likes: 61 |
Thanx Bucky. I have recently been only buying from BP and Hess for that reason and was wondering how much truth was in it.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Fuel
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,337
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,337 |
Good to know guys- really- good stuff. THANKS!
2002 Bandit 1200/ GSXR cams/ 1277 BB Kit/ Holeshot header and can/ 38mm flatslides/ a good head/lotsa hp/lotsa tq- lots of rear tires...
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Re: Fuel
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821 |
Quote:
Aviation and racing fuel 'octane' numbers are an accepted misuse of the word octane. They get those higher than 100 numbers via Benzene, Methane, Ethane, Toluene, Xylene.
It would be a bother to say "well it's like 100 'octane', but 13 clicks better," and so 113 octane it is. In the abstract, it's not too far from "Kleenex" meaning facial tissue.
Hence the term "Octane Rating".
Octane itself,as you mention is a chemical component of gasoline. The amount of octane in the fuel used to raised by "cracking" the gasoline.
When that did not produce enough anti-knock properties, other chemicals were added and the term "octane rating" replaced "octane".
So, when one uses the term "octane" while referring to modern fuels, one is actually using an accepted, abbreviated form of "octane rating".
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Fuel
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821 |
Quote:
There are exceptions to this practice, where for instance brands P, Q, and R will only sell their own products at their gas stations.
Interesting stuff.
Think you use examples like "brand E" or "brand Ch" or "brand S", etc.? 
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Fuel
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821 |
Quote:
Here in Iowa, officially "The Tall Corn State" we love our ethanol.
I'm rather fond of it myself  .
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Fuel
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 3,971
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 3,971 |
'Round here brand E spent x million on a terminal upgrade, then shut it down a few months later. (it's only money, and they have a license to print their own) They're 100% throughput here, and probably save a pile of money by not paying terminal overhead. What must it cost to insure xx million of shore front gas & fuel storage these days? Ouch. Fuel trivia fact #313 - Wish'd I'da bought Valero stock 20 years ago. In buying up old refineries then refurbishing them*, they've now become the single largest refiner in North America. I'd never heard of them until the 90s. They're now #15 on the Fortune 500 list - not too shabby for a company born in 1980. http://www.valero.com/AboutUs/History.htm*No one is building new refineries in the US. When you think of who outside the oil patch could afford to build a few, but doesn't, it's fairly indicative of the way we're over-regulating ourselves back into the stone age. To buy existing refinery footprints like Valero did was fairly genius, in my opinion. Unless motor fuels hit $5 or $6 per gallon, I don't see our thirst for fuel declining anytime too soon. We began to learn our lesson after the embargo, then forgot soon after - not that I'm holier than anyone with a V8 Mustang in the driveway, although it does get 23 MPG on regular.
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Re: Fuel
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 691
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 691 |
Quote:
The non-ethanol fuel seems to get about 5-10% more mileage. When I’ve filled with non-ethanol fuel I normally go 10-15 miles further before switching to reserve than when I fill with the ethanol blend.
I have noticed that too. I was getting 40 mpg on ethanol blend and now get 44 mpg on non-ethanol. I always use 89 octane (mid-grade).
--Tom
02 TBA; 130 mains; TBS; Nology Coils&Wires;Unifilter/opened Airbox; -AI/snorkels; -2 baffles;Progressive 440s & Springs
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Re: Fuel
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 3,971
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 3,971 |
Lucky you - We're forced to run alco-gas here in the Commie state. Have been for years.  The alcohol lowers the available BTU's, thereby lowering the MPG, thereby burning more fuel per mile. Fuel tax is based upon gallons consumed, so - that means the more fuel we burn, the more fuel tax for the revenuers. Funny how every clean air initiative to get upchucked out the belly of the EPA has resulted in lower MPGs, ever since they began to meddle in 1969. Gosh, It's all about clean air, isn't it !
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Re: Fuel
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,219 Likes: 61
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23,219 Likes: 61 |
That and it has lower emissions on 1 gas but higher on everything else.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: Fuel
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 691
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 691 |
For all you fuel experts: If I am getting a 10% increase in fuel mileage without the ethanol (about 10%) fuel mix, does that mean that the ethanol provides no energy but only takes up space/volume? If so, why? To sell corn? To make us think we are getting more gasoline domestically? 
--Tom
02 TBA; 130 mains; TBS; Nology Coils&Wires;Unifilter/opened Airbox; -AI/snorkels; -2 baffles;Progressive 440s & Springs
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Re: Fuel
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 3,971
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 3,971 |
I believe alcohol in whatever name they called it then began it's duty in motor fuel service as an air cleaning elixir, as part of the oxy fuels program.
(It may have gradually supplanted that wonder potion we knew as MTBE?)
It's now in vogue as a fossil fuel replacement / renewable resource, even though that doesn't quite make economic sense in the acreage required vs. benefit to mankind department. Bush is even encouraging So. American countries to make alcohol as a motor fuel supplement in order to mess with Venezuela's King Chavez.
So to make a long story short, it's a popular political commodity, that lends itself to a variety of games.
Pardon my acute cynicism, but all these 'games' have one primary end result - they raise my cost of living, with smoke & mirrors type benefit.
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Re: Fuel
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,017
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,017 |
what a waste of perfectly fine ethanol...
Mark
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Re: Fuel
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 948
3/4 Throttle
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3/4 Throttle
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 948 |
Several years ago an old transport driver told me they put a 'water block' in the pipeline between certain products and that was why it was possible to get water in your gasoline. Wonder if that was an old practice of if he just smelled too many fumes.
I had two uncles that were transport drivers for years-they had some interesting stories.
Redbike7
2006 America
No amount of skill can overcome gross stupidity. Ask me how I know...never mind, I forgot...
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Re: Fuel
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821 |
Quote:
Funny how every clean air initiative to get upchucked out the belly of the EPA has resulted in lower MPGs, ever since they began to meddle in 1969.
Not true at all.
While initially it has that effect, as the technology catches up the opposite is true.
Just look at the performance of modern car and truck engines.
They are way ahead of what they were before emission standards thanks to the development of electronic controls.
Chevrolet Corvette:
400 HP and 28mpg out of a 6.0 liter (366ci) V-8.
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Fuel
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 691
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 691 |
Hopefully the electronic controls will last longer than 10 years??? and be inexpensive and easy to diagnose and repair???
--Tom
02 TBA; 130 mains; TBS; Nology Coils&Wires;Unifilter/opened Airbox; -AI/snorkels; -2 baffles;Progressive 440s & Springs
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Re: Fuel
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,630 Likes: 7
Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,630 Likes: 7 |
Just think what kind of fuel milage we could get if they weren't constantly "reformulating" it.
We all like to think of ourselves as rugged individualists. But when push comes to shove most of us are sheep who do what we are told. Worst of all, a lot of us become unpaid agents of whoever is controlling the agenda by enforcing the current dogma on the few rugged individualists who actually exist.
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Re: Fuel
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821 |
Quote:
Hopefully the electronic controls will last longer than 10 years???
Many vehicles and equipment from the late eighties and early nineties still going strong.
I expect the new ones are even better.
Quote:
and be inexpensive and easy to diagnose and repair???
Hey!!!
Mechanics need to make a living too 
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Fuel
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821 |
Quote:
Just think what kind of fuel milage we could get if they weren't constantly "reformulating" it.
One can only imagine 
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Fuel
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 3,971
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 3,971 |
edit - Upon reflection, I deleted the content Coffee is very good this morning - politics in a moto forum - not so good 
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Re: Fuel
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,626
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,626 |
Quote:
politics in a moto forum - not so good.
Can I get an Amen! 
Steelheart- '03 Speedmaster Black/Yellow
The Hayabusa Killa
16" Shorties/140 mains/Airbox drilled
Procom CDI
"There is no cure for Celibacy. But we can treat the symptoms."
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Re: Fuel
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 1
Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,432 Likes: 1 |
Amen. 
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Herm Albright (1876 - 1944)
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Re: Fuel
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,337
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,337 |
amen- uh I mean yeesss! you are correct, sir!
2002 Bandit 1200/ GSXR cams/ 1277 BB Kit/ Holeshot header and can/ 38mm flatslides/ a good head/lotsa hp/lotsa tq- lots of rear tires...
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Re: Fuel
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 11,126 Likes: 13
Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 11,126 Likes: 13 |
Quote:
More trivia - I would advise to avoid fueling up while the truck delivers at the station. Dumping fuel could well stir up the small volume of water (from condensation) that is on the bottom of most underground storage tanks. Water is a known and managed commodity in USTs, and is usually of no concern as the pick up tubes are well above the tank's bottom, and many gas stations pumps have water occluding 'Hydro-sorb" type filters inside their shell, but I feel better waiting a half hour to let the water settle. Call it superstition I suppose.
My Cousin told me a long time ago to not even stop at the station if you see a fuel truck there.
Blowing gravel off rural roads
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