Seems to me that most folks are paying close to full retail for thier Americas they buy new. I.e. 8100 for the two tone paint model. They may be getting extra stuff thrown in or save on dealer prep. The dealer that I visited didn't even offer any incentives when we talked. In fact he said that, because my bike was slightly "upside down" that the finance company they used would probably finance up to 20% above msrp? Are these bikes so hot that dealers just don't need to make deals or is the normally more negotiating that can be done.....in you'alls opinion?