 cams
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Greenhorn
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Greenhorn
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would I be right in saying that 790 cams from a model before 07 would give better performance than standard 07 S/M cams or are there after market better cams available?
A.H.inc
"Such is life"
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 Re: cams
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: cams
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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It would seem that the SM cams fall off about 2/3 of the way throught the power band, but I'm yet to hear anyone putting 790 cams in the 865.
2002 Bandit 1200/ GSXR cams/ 1277 BB Kit/ Holeshot header and can/ 38mm flatslides/ a good head/lotsa hp/lotsa tq- lots of rear tires...
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It seems to me your real question in this post is about the torque zone of the 865 Speedmaster. It has a wider zone than the America. I too went on a holiday recently. One guy had a B.M.W. cruiser. Nobody could get near him in our group. There were 2 America’s with 790 engines. 1 was stock except pipes. I had some mods. I had trouble keeping up in the twisties until I cranked up my rear shocks. I noticed I was making less gear changes than the Americas. They had a shorter torque zone. I have raced on a track with T-Birds. They are way too strong. The T 100 you will never keep up with a Bonnie in the twisties. They are built for that. You have a cruiser. If you want to blow them away buy a ZZR 1400.
Last edited by SpeedyKiwi; 05/06/2007 1:20 PM.
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Re: cams
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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SpeedyKiwi is correct- except a Triumph Daytona 675 will eat up a 1400 in the twisties! Buse's and ZZR's are godd for one thing- going really fereakin fast - straight.
I rode a Thruxton on Friday. A completly different bike than the speedmaster. I absolutely loved it. It had D&Ds, CRII carbs, NARK and some mild head work. It would flat out rip! Not speed triple territority by any means, but perhaps the coolest all around bike I have ever ridden. It has quite a unique vibe to it. But, definately an in-town bike. I was begining to get uncomfortable after about 20 minutes on it.
It has a different cam profile thatn the AM or the SM. might be another option...
2002 Bandit 1200/ GSXR cams/ 1277 BB Kit/ Holeshot header and can/ 38mm flatslides/ a good head/lotsa hp/lotsa tq- lots of rear tires...
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Re: cams
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Greenhorn
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Greenhorn
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speedy kiwi what I want to know is if a S/M and a thruxton or T100 Bonny were side by side in a straight line I would think a they (even though they have the same motor)would eat the S/M.Other than the weight difference WHY?What is different in the mtr spec,s.
A.H.inc
"Such is life"
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Re: cams
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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The thrux will smoke them all...
2002 Bandit 1200/ GSXR cams/ 1277 BB Kit/ Holeshot header and can/ 38mm flatslides/ a good head/lotsa hp/lotsa tq- lots of rear tires...
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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I think the 360 deg. firing adds power. I'll never understand why they went 270deg in our bikes. to me it even hurt the exhaust note. But don't get me wrong I love my bike and the sound anyway.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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What they have in common is they have , nowadays, 865cc. The America and the Speedmaster have a 270 cycle which vibrates less. The Thruxton and the T 100 have 360. The camshafts are different in that the valves are open at different times, with some opening earlier and some others for longer. The Thruxton is bred for racing, but with a seating position not suitable for cruising long distances. But man It goes and it does go around corners. I was lucky enough to be given the shop bike which was a Thruxton when my Speedy was being Dynoed up for the day. Hope that helps.
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Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
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Cams and gearing are about the only other differences. Maybe some carb tuning to go with that, but most of us change the stock configuration anyway. If you had a standard bonnie, you could put Thrux cams in it, but not with the 270 motor unfortunately.
Benny
Black & Silver '02
Too many mods to list
Not enough miles ridden
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Re: cams
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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Again and I hate to be continually beating this dead horse. But at the noreaster Rally, about 2 in moring after lots of libation. There was talk about putting thrux cams into a speedy at least on the exhaust side, and advancing the intake cam. I know Pat and Ed were in the conversation as were a few others.
Hopefully once Pat gets some more free time he will look back into how to get us 865 owners more speed.
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you cannot put thrux cams into a speedy or america...period, end of story, finito. READ IT AND BELIEVE IT.
There is no greater thrill than being shot at with no consequence. -Churchill
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Re: cams
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Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
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I believe you, but you would need to cut off half the lobes and weld em on 90 deg back  Unless I am missing something and the Thrux is a 270?? Also, one thing about cams, seems to me like they are a lot of money for a little gain, ya know?
Benny
Black & Silver '02
Too many mods to list
Not enough miles ridden
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thrux is a 360 motor, an I guess you could cut and weld, but it'd be just as much work to get custom 270 cams made.
I agree, cams are a lot of $$$, the money is better spent on big bore kits and mikuni flatslides.
There is no greater thrill than being shot at with no consequence. -Churchill
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Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
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Quote:
I think the 360 deg. firing adds power. I'll never understand why they went 270deg in our bikes. to me it even hurt the exhaust note. But don't get me wrong I love my bike and the sound anyway.
I don't think that the 360 degree could add power, in fact with the inherent vibration, it may have the opposite effect. As mentioned the 270 degree has less vibration.
Another way to look at it is similar to a 90 degree v-twin such as Ducati (360-270=90).
The main purpose of the 270 however was to give the engine a bit of a loping idle note like V-twins.
Marketing thought that's what the cruiser riders would prefer.
And I too, think I would rather have had a traditional Triumph sound.
Hmmmmmm, maybe a Thruxton engine install.
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: cams
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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The Thruxton engine in my frame had crossed my mind or at least crank and cams and if that route probably 10.5:1 pistons.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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i must say i am quilty in the fact i like the loping v twin sound. have had a lot of people complement on how good my bike sounds, even guys who owned older triumphs
Frank
(Former)05 BA tbike pipes, ai removed, Freak, mikuni hsr 42's, 904, ported/polished head, 1mm oversized valves
NOW-2010 silver and black tbird
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 Re: cams
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Greenhorn
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Greenhorn
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OK that helps heaps, now what is different to change 270deg to 360? Im new to all these mtr,s Im use to the old 650,s and 750,s
A.H.inc
"Such is life"
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Re: cams
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Greenhorn
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Greenhorn
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I think I just suss,d it out 270deg, one piston TDC the other piston bottom of the stroke 360deg, both pistons are both at TDC but only one is on compression stroke the same as the old pommy twins.
A.H.inc
"Such is life"
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Re: cams
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Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
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Yup you got it. I think someone over on trat.net converted theirs. New crank, cams, and ignitors I think would do it. Or you could just look out for a wrecked bike and do a transplant.
Benny
Black & Silver '02
Too many mods to list
Not enough miles ridden
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Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
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Quote:
I think I just suss,d it out 270deg, one piston TDC the other piston bottom of the stroke 360deg, both pistons are both at TDC but only one is on compression stroke the same as the old pommy twins.
Your take on the 270 is a 180.
On a 270, one piston at TDC, the other halfway between TDC and BDC.
This link had been posted before, shows them pretty well:
web page
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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 Re: cams
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so in your oppinion does a 360 deg mtr better than a 270 and if it is why the ****** would Triumph go to the trouble of making a less powerful mtr just to put it in a cruiser when most of us like some grunt out on the open road anyway.
A.H.inc
"Such is life"
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Re: cams
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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I think they were shooting for a galloping exhaust note.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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the power has less to do with the crank and more to do with the cams.
There is no greater thrill than being shot at with no consequence. -Churchill
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Re: cams
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Greenhorn
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Greenhorn
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I dont know it might be just me and I might be expecting too much but out on the open road when I go to pass a car I like to twist the grip and feel the mtr want to red line straight away.A big bore kit would fix that prob I would hope but you shouldnt have to go their.
A.H.inc
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Yes Bernie you are expecting too much. If you want to go fast buy a Daytona or something. You bought a cruiser.
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Re: cams
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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my dealer suggested cams over big bore with the 865 but that is his opinion.
mike
2006 neon blue speedmaster
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Quote:
my dealer suggested cams over big bore with the 865 but that is his opinion.
mike
Based upon what verifiable data does he make this suggestion on? You'll never get 8-10 rear wheel hp out of cams...so whats the real motivation for him making this suggestion??
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
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Quote:
my dealer suggested cams over big bore with the 865 but that is his opinion.
mike
I wouldn't ask that dealer any more performance questions...
There is no greater thrill than being shot at with no consequence. -Churchill
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Re: cams
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Worn Saddle
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Worn Saddle
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Quote:
Quote:
my dealer suggested cams over big bore with the 865 but that is his opinion.
mike
I wouldn't ask that dealer any more performance questions...
ditto on that one for sure.
edit part:
Ok guys, I installed MegaCycle custom made cams, made specifically for a 904 Speedmaster, and got another 4hp, but the torque went down by 2 ft/lbs. Sure it runs great, feels wonderous...but, all in all, for the $$, WISECO big bore with increased compression all the way. A little porting, maybe even some 1mm oversized valves. But as far as souping the cams up, I haven't been overly impressed with $/hp value.
But then again, "Speed is money, how fast do you want to go?"
Last edited by Dinqua; 05/09/2007 8:06 PM.
A word to the wise is not necessary. It is the stupid ones who need the advice.
Pat
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Greenhorn
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there are plenty of cruisers out there that go fast and hard.I like the look of cruisers I,m not an old fart that wants to go slow. 
A.H.inc
"Such is life"
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Well this old farts Speedy can do 120 mph, and thats plenty fast enough for me
Such is life eh.
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Re: cams
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Greenhorn
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that's ok but they dont seem to get there fast like something is restricting the mtr eg detuned. Had a mate buy a H/D (eeeerrrrr)they dont go that hard in standard form but at least he could get cams and other go,ee bits and man does it get up and go now.I think there is nothing worse than not having a mtr running at its full potential 
A.H.inc
"Such is life"
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Re: cams
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Greenhorn
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Greenhorn
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Are you an old fart? 
A.H.inc
"Such is life"
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I did the big bore and port job for LESS than a set of cams, and it was my first motorbike engine re-build. So for $$$ value, the choice is easy.  Although I do have 790 cams which I guess means I'm lucky! 
TBA, Stainless extractors / drag pipes, 65mm over forward controls, Thruxton needles, 904cc, head ported, lowered 1-inch, Console removed, relocated battery box, Australia.
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Greenhorn
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Greenhorn
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so chris was the difference in performance heaps or just ok & did u change the carbies
A.H.inc
"Such is life"
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Re: cams
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Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
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I rode my friends bike that was a 790 who did the big bore and I can tell you it is quite a bit of a jump in power. Especially when I went from my stock displacement with stock compression bike to his BB then back to mine. Made me want to BB mine but I don't have the cash. His still has the stock 790 cams. I didn't ask about head work either but the way he talks I think he would have mentioned it if it had been done.
I learned all I need to know about life by killing smart people and eating their brains.
Eat right ,Exercise ,Stay fit, Die Anyway!
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Re: cams
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Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
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I don't want to start anything but I found the site that my dealer used to make the comment to me regarding the cam vs big bore. http://www.thunderbike.co.nz/newsletters/06autumn.htmthe one chart shows significant increases in the 5500 to 7000 rpm range for the speedmaster using their cam/exhaust kit. the kicker, click on "buy now". thought I was gonna have the big one.  just like Dinqua said,the $ to hp thing isn't quite there  mike
2006 neon blue speedmaster
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Thunderbike is full of it. They won't give any cam specs, and the graph they show (by their own admission, I traded a few emails with Graeme) is on an engine with headwork AND their cams. So the dyno runs (subjective anyway) are basically false adverstising. BS. 100%. No Fing way are cams alone are going to net those results.
You want 80-85hp? get a wiseco 904 and a set of mikuni flat slides. Period. Forget cams.
Last edited by sweatmachine; 05/21/2007 12:53 AM.
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machine speak's the truth....
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