 Re: Thailand Americas
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 123
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 123 |
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oneijack
Yeah rigth dude have that printed up on a freaking card and mail it to me.
Give me you mailing addy, and I’ll send it special delivery
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bobu
Sightglass, I DID however purchase my '04 T100 because of where it was Made/Assembled. I bought a Triumph because I like the heritage and history associated with the brand. Which in my mind means I'm purchasing a British motorcycle that was assembled in England. I am well aware that many of the parts on my bike were manufactured elsewhere in the world ... that wasn't my point. My point is that it isn't a British motorcycle any longer in my opinion. It is now a Thai motorcycle being sold under a British brand name. No thanks.
Can you actually tell me what tie vintage Triumph, and new Triumph have besides the name, and styling of a line of bikes. Bloor could give a rats arse about history, to the point they had the logo changed to reflect the new company. Their only care for the past is the Marquee name. They also own the naming rights to all that was BSA, so they can use names like Rocket III, and a few that may come down the road in a few years. They don’t support the vintage bikes and want nothing to do with them.
Quote:
Adey
You hit the nail on the head there friend .. it's down to the £ at the end of the day.
Sad fact is, they can assemble the bikes cheaper in the Far East.
Triumph is a business and they're out to make money.
During the factory tour last week, the guide told us that profits are pumped back into the company (John Bloor obviously earns PLENTY from his building company ) so I suppose, in a way, saving money on labour costs but charging the same for the bikes means more money back into R&D etc ...
I don't think UK jobs will be at jeopardy because Triumph plans to build more bikes - more of the same plus new models along the way.
Triumph couldn’t keep up with the demand for bikes, and needed to open other plants instead of going the way Harley does with low supply keeping the demand up.
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satxron
Thaiumphs suck. They are not cool. They simply put a British worker out of work for the sake of profits. There will never be a Thiumph in my garages. They should not have the right to park next to a real Triumph "Made in England".
And another thing! For the Americans on this site. For many decades now, our greatest friend is Great Britain. Where we go they go etc. We have died for them and they have died for us. After 9/11 they played our anthem at Buckingham Palace. You may not know what kind of gesture that is. It ain't small, trust me. They brought me to tears with their support for us. We should not repay them by buying a bike that shipped jobs out of their country to a third world country for the sake of profit.
That Thailand plant means Brits not working. It means jobs and money shipped out of England for the sake of a bottom line. That is not cool. We need to not buy Thailand built bikes for the sake of the British worker. We need to also not buy them because they are not cool.
No brits have lost their jobs because of these plants opening. If anything it ensures that the company they work for will thrive. Get you facts straight before you get on the soap box. Ya, the Brits are great folks, and do support us in times of need. Playing our anthem was a wonderful gesture, but it doesn’t bring back the 13 friends I lost on 9-11, nor did it help their families recover, or their children understand why dad isn’t coming home anymore. So what does either of our statements on 9-11 have to do with where the bikes are being assembled ?
Quote:
Pes
Sightglass, I just checked the MSRP of an 07 America on the Triumph website. I'm not seeing that $1,000 lower price you are talking about. $8,199 for the two tone versions, which is a $200 or $300 increase over last year
I got the info from my sales department, and I will check into it tomorrow at work. If my info was wrong, I will gladly rescind the statement. They may have meant that dealer cost has gone down 1K, and I mis understood.
Quote:
Canyonwlf7
Better listen up Triumph!!! Sounds like you will be losing sales if this continues.............
I haven’t laughed this much in a week. Thanks
Quote:
Heneryhawk
The Thai ( Siamese ) people are not Chinese, nor is this plant one that uses slave labour like China. This is a capitalist nation, Triumph ADDED capacity in Thailand, they didnt take it from UK. They could have gone the ultra low cost way, and gone to RED China, they didnt. It the quality is there, the designs remain cool, then I will consider Triumph again, and will still recommend it to anyone.
For all that are screamin' about this, ever stop to ask why the assembly plant isnt located in the USA? Or even Mexico ( whose labour rate is four times that of China )? Would we rather that Triumph produce in low numbers, not have the capital to grow the line, and maybe not stay solvent?
The voice of logic and reason. You have some set of nads bringing that into this discussion.:)
Quote:
satxron
Not everybody that owns a Triumph wants the non-existent 1500cc mini-rocket. You may be surprised how many Triumph owners have been riding big bikes for a very long time and don't need Triumph to build them one.
Triumph already knows that too with their more comprehensive focus group. Thats why they don't have one, they can't sell it in America in any volume and they know it.
We saw the plans for the bike at the dealer expo this past sept. You may want to tell that focus group that they have their heads up their collective keasters. The bike is due to hit the streets in 08.
It’s so funny to me how people can get all bunged up over stuff like this. If you go to most of the auto and motorcycle plants in Germany, where the “best†products in the industry are made, you find a majority of Turkish workers building cars and bikes. They call them White “Schwartzers†there. You want to talk slave labor......
How about the new G series 650 BMW’s made in Italy at the Aprillia plant. German or Italian ? You don’t see BMW owners throwing hissy fits over it. You don’t see Ducati owners pissin and moaning that the famous “trellis†frames aren’t being made in house. They trust the powers that be to continue to produce a quality product. BMW actually cares about heritage, and support their vintage bikes as best as they can to this day. Wish I could say the same for Triumph. I grew up on Triumphs, and don’t want to see the company go down the crapper again.
The heritage everybody speaks of is boiled down to parallel twin engines, and a hand pin striped tank. They build these retro bikes to play on peoples sentiment for days long past, and there’s nothing more to it. If there wasn’t a market for it, the line would be dropped in a second. Their market share grows every year in the US, and are the # 1 selling street bike down under. I have faith they know what their doing.
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Re: Thailand Americas
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,026
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,026 |
If your going to turn to Halford, then thats some unstable gorund ( ever listen to the lyrics? ).
Our Liberties We Prize and Our Rights We Will Maintain
If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and will never be.----Thomas Jefferson
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Re: Thailand Americas
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 898
3/4 Throttle
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3/4 Throttle
Joined: Jan 2005
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So you laughed at my analysis Mr. Sightglass, seems you have no common sense. If over 50% of the people in the poll said they would NOT buy a Triumph assembled in Thailand, and you still disagree with my assessment that Triumph could lose sales over this?? You are the funny one...............
Triumph Scrambler Diablo Red & Silver (2014), Arrow Exhaust, FI remapped with TTP #4, 16 tooth sprocket, Triumph Gel Solo seat & Rack, Progressive 440 1" lowered Shocks, SAI & O2 Removal, Airbox Restrictor Plate removed.
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Re: Thailand Americas
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,693 Likes: 22
Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,693 Likes: 22 |
Harley Davidson is the number 1 street bike in Australia followed by the Honda VT750 and the Yamaha XVS650. Honda has the highest market share and Yamaha is number 2 with Suzuki 3rd. Anyhow Triumph is 7th overall in Australia and not close to the #1 street bike. (You must have been told about the #1 street bike thing with the big 1500cc twin.)
I never said they were not going to make a bigger bike Sightglass, I said many of us don't need them to make us a bigger bike. Many of us don't want anything that even resembles a Rocket. No disrespect intended to the Rocket or its owners. To date, it is a non-existent bike. A rumor and a plan is not a bike. They are not going to build a 1500cc twin cylinder bike. I hope you know that, I really do because if you don't you are very mistaken.
If you don't think jobs are lost to overseas factory construction and you don't understand trade deficits and how it changes the global markets, I can't have a discussion with you. Its economics 101.
Thailand has been a manufacturing hub for 40 years. Huge factory facilities making literally billions of dollars in product every month. Its still awash with poverty and corruption. Why is that? Global markets don't work is why. Business finds 3rd world countries, they exploit the corrupt politicians with money and favors who in turn exploit their people for cheap labor for their business buds. It works so well, they make sure the 3rd world countries never emerge from that status.
When you build factory facilities outside of your own country you don't lose money, your country does along with all the jobs you didn't need for the local factory. You also lose jobs for the companies that do other things like transport, security, HVAC, etc.
I take it you have never been to Detroit and you are not aware of the 40 plants GM has in Mexico. Ask Detroit if they lost jobs.
Remember this thread 5 years from now when the Triumph building is converted to offices because all bike construction from frame to final shipping happens in Thailand.
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
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 Re: Thailand Americas
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 123
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 123 |
Quote:
So you laughed at my analysis Mr. Sightglass, seems you have no common sense. If over 50% of the people in the poll said they would NOT buy a Triumph assembled in Thailand, and you still disagree with my assessment that Triumph could lose sales over this?? You are the funny one...............
 Cool, I'm a Mr now 
So, Mr canyonwlf7, do you actually think this small comunity gives any real sample of what the entire motorcycle buying world thinks ? What you have here is a miniscule percentage of what the world thinks, and common sense tells me that. Now, if Triumph will ignore the broken rear spoke problem that's been blasted all over the net and the British motorcycling press, a safety issue, do you think a small group moaning about where they assemble bikes will change their view ?
For every 200 people who say they won't buy a P Twin Triumph because of where it's assembled, I'd venture a guess theres easily 2000 world wide who don't care and would line up to get one.
Fact of the matter is, the bikes may be getting assembled out off England, but the quality is the same, and better in some ways. I haven't had one bike from Thailand with crate damage, and don't have to deal with bikes being coated with cosmoline. I know this because I service and repair Triumphs every day.
Don't hold your breath waiting for Triumph to have a change of heart. This move has allowed them to build and sell more bikes, and that's the name of the game. Do you actually think they would gamble with their # 1 selling bikes in their second biggest market.......... and no, it's not the America, it's the standard Bonneville & T-100.
So in short, yes, you made me laugh with you threatning tone towards Triumph.  Reminds me of the the line from the movie, The Ten Comandments...........
"So it is written, so shall it be done"
Last edited by Sightglass; 03/08/2007 1:33 AM.
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Re: Thailand Americas
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 207
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 207 |
for whatever it's worth- seems that harley went for the streamline save the dollar production gig through AMF. I think that was even an American company just new shrewd production practices that ultimately led to the buy back. Maybe we'll have the oppurtunity to buy back Triumph in 10 years and make it stronger than ever.
Have a nice day , "unless you've made other plans"
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Re: Thailand Americas
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 123
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 123 |
satxron, the # 1 thing came directly from a Triumph service bullitan, so if their telling lies, it's to the entire world. Yes, you did say there not going to make the bigger bikes by saying they don't have one. Quote:
Thats why they don't have one, they can't sell it in America in any volume and they know it.
There marrketing know that the need a cruiser between the tinker toy 865cc, and the monster 2300cc to compete with the likes of Harley.
Lets see, in the past three years Triumph has deneyed they were making the Daytona675, the Scrambler, and there's lots of people who are riding the bikes the deneyed they were making. Triumph takes 5 years to develop a completely new model, but two bikes are being done faster as spinoffs of the 675, and one based on the 1050 engine, a new big Daytona. Triumph will deney it of course until there ready to start selling them. I've already seen the bikes pics of the bikes being riden at the factory testing area. I guess that there's not going to be a tourer based on the rocket acording to your info too.
Building more facilities in england would have tapped Triumph out. GM had no choice but move into places like mexico. The product was substandard, and completely over priced due to unionized labor getting paid off the wall wages for being a non skilled worker.
Times change, and because moving production has classically caused the loss of jobs in the original country doesn't mean it will happen with Triumph. I guess we'll know in a few years won't we.
I'll buy the beer if your right 
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Re: Thailand Americas
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,681 Likes: 1
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,681 Likes: 1 |
Enough of this petty bickering. Triumph should have kept the whole Thailand thing, top secret then no one would have known the difference. Now lets get down to the nitty gritty. Since you are now our inside man Sightglass, and see all the bulletins and go to new product openings and such. Tell us about this new Triumph 1500.  Is it a twin? Does it have a belt or shaft drive, does it look like the America/speedmaster??? come on guy..give us the skinny 
"Catching a yellow jacket in your shirt at seventy miles per hour can double your vocabulary" Author unknown
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Re: Thailand Americas
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,693 Likes: 22
Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,693 Likes: 22 |
Yeah, I did say they are not building one. Thats wrong, sometime in the company history they will build a new bike between 1050 and 2300cc, I agree. It will not be a low slung cruiser. The drawing I saw was a mini-rocket with a fairing, hard bags, and 3 cylinders.
They have not brought one out yet because it takes a lot of bucks to make a new mass produced bike. The market has not been there so they focused on the sport line that was selling well. Sales slumped a bit but I wish they would have kept the 955i. I think it would have caught on.
Other than switching the do-dads around they didn't need any re-tooling for the Bonneville and little cruiser markets.
I don't want to stop arguing, pissing people off gives me a reason to wake up.
Pete, I will buy you a beer anyhow even though you are hard headed.
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
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 Re: Thailand Americas
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,630 Likes: 7
Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,630 Likes: 7 |
Hey Moderators, tell me again why we don't allow political discussions here?
We all like to think of ourselves as rugged individualists. But when push comes to shove most of us are sheep who do what we are told. Worst of all, a lot of us become unpaid agents of whoever is controlling the agenda by enforcing the current dogma on the few rugged individualists who actually exist.
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Re: Thailand Americas
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,823
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,823 |
Quote:
It will not be a low slung cruiser. The drawing I saw was a mini-rocket with a fairing, hard bags, and 3 cylinders.
and every thing i have been told it will be a twin AND I HOPE THATS WHAT IT WILL BE..
but time will tell
BIKER
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Re: Thailand Americas
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,590
Check Pants
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Check Pants
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,590 |
Quote:
Hey Moderators, tell me again why we don't allow political discussions here?
Hey Larry,
I think Hillary, McCain et al are clearly ducking the the mid-sized Triumph cruiser, country-of-origin debate. Most politico's drive HD anyway, not because they particularly like 'em, but because it's makes for a great kindamadeinamerica photo-op.
.....just kiddin . Off to moderator Hell with me. There goes my bonus 
jh
"It's not what I say that's important, it's what you hear" Red Auerbach
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Re: Thailand Americas
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,823
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,823 |
Sightglass first off thank you for all to info and insight about triumph and the new bike and i for one agree in what your saying if triumph had learned to change with the times many years ago it would not have gone into the slump that it did.. triumph is doing what it has to.. to stay competitive in today's world BIKER
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Re: Thailand Americas
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
Quote:
I think Hillary, McCain et al are clearly ducking the the mid-sized Triumph cruiser, country-of-origin debate. Most politico's drive HD anyway, not because they particularly like 'em, but because it's makes for a great kindamadeinamerica photo-op.
jh
Well John,
After viewing your response, I took it upon myself to visit the websites of McCain, Hillary, Obama, Edwards, Rudy and ahh, what's his name, you know, the Mormon dude...oh yeah, Romney...to see if perchance one of our possible future Presidents have made any pronouncements regarding this issue.
But they have ALL taken a FIRM stand of stating that at this juncture they have taken NO firm stand on this matter...EXCEPT to add their own querries of:
"Triumph?! When did they start making THOSE again???"
Yep! They're ALL still pretty much clueless, my friend.
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: Thailand Americas
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,954
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,954 |
Quote:
Hey Moderators, tell me again why we don't allow political discussions here?
Tell me about it, I searched and searched through the posts to see where I could find the mention of guns, gays, Iraq, or W that started all of this name calling, all in vain...
Some might say this is just a contentious lot!!!
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Re: Thailand Americas
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,138
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,138 |
Hey Bayern710,
Here you go !!!
A gay guy went to Iraq with a gun to protest W.
John 06 America Mulberry\Silver
"Seemed Like A Good Idea At The Time"
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Re: Thailand Americas
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,541
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2005
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I knew some one would say something that would get me involved in this discussion/thread. Quote:
A gay guy went to Iraq with a gun to protest W.
I object. Your reference to a "Gay Guy" goes to Iraq. Are you assuming that because the person was "Gay" then that person was a guy, it may have been a bird, which if so you should have said a "Gay Girl". Dont assume that just because a "Gay Person" went to Iraq, that it was a bloke. it might not have been.
Besides, he may not have been gay at all. Maybe he was just a very happy little chappy.
Arsenalfan. AKA Mark Able
Seller of fine automobiles.
Jaguar, Land Rover, Porsche of Chattanooga
423-424-4000
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Re: Thailand Americas
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,954
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,954 |
Quote:
I knew some one would say something that would get me involved in this discussion/thread.
Quote:
A gay guy went to Iraq with a gun to protest W.
I object. Your reference to a "Gay Guy" goes to Iraq. Are you assuming that because the person was "Gay" then that person was a guy, it may have been a bird, which if so you should have said a "Gay Girl". Dont assume that just because a "Gay Person" went to Iraq, that it was a bloke. it might not have been.
Besides, he may not have been gay at all. Maybe he was just a very happy little chappy.
WHOAAAA NOW, HOLD ON NELLY!!! And just WHY does he have to be a LITTLE chappy, maybe he's perfectly normal sized, or maybe very tall!!! WHO said ANYTHING about "LITTLE", HUH?! Typical condescedning Brits!!!!
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Re: Thailand Americas
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,541
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,541 |
Arsenalfan. AKA Mark Able
Seller of fine automobiles.
Jaguar, Land Rover, Porsche of Chattanooga
423-424-4000
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Re: Thailand Americas
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,527
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,527 |
A wholly supercilious thread at this juncture. Sheesh. Its really more fun to argue "real" politics than the silly insignificance of this numbnuts thread.
Everyone knows that McCain if he rode would ride a Harley. Kucinich if he rode would ride a Chi-com bike of some type.
Mitt Romney would ride a Harley.
Same for Guliani.
Hillary could not possibly ride with those thick ankles of hers for fear she would scrape them in a corner.
Obama will not ride cause it would identify him with middle America too closely....
Edwards would also ride a Chi-com bike. (with training wheels)
Al (global warmin) Gore would never ride cause it would identify him as a destroyer of the ozone layer.
Most a the Republicans might have a Triumph but they would never publicize it.
All the dems would be identified as posers in a quick fashion.
LOL
"Proud to be an Infidel" ... "100% pure American Jingoist"
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Re: Thailand Americas
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2
Fe Butt
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Fe Butt
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,096 Likes: 2 |
Yep! Just like a good Single Malt Scotch, you might call me "an acquired taste" TOO.(among the many OTHER things you may care to call me, of course)
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Re: Thailand Americas
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,138
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,138 |
Ok,
Point well taken, let me revise.
A homosexual went to Iraq with a gun to protest W
John 06 America Mulberry\Silver
"Seemed Like A Good Idea At The Time"
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Re: Thailand Americas *DELETED*
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,172
Saddle Sore
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Saddle Sore
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,172 |
More flags
More fun!
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Re: Thailand Americas
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23
Complete Newb
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OP
Complete Newb
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 23 |
Grump wins with the reference to Cankles.
Flawless victory.
'07 Tiger (white)
'04 Bonneville T100 "Made In England" - retired
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Re: Thailand Americas
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 123
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 123 |
OK, I would like to make a few corrections to former posts I have made. First, Triumph didn't drop the prices on the entire line by 1K. It was the standard Rocket III. The Rocket classic went down by 600$ I have got to stay away from those sales guys  Also, the Auz sales thing was not from a SB, and I can't seem to find where I read about it, so I conceed the point. Any how, yes I have access to all SB's from Triumph, and online parts breakdowns for every bike from my home computer. I check this forum every day, so if I can help with something, just shoot me a PM. And yes........... I have a very hard head. Hey, I'm a Calabrase Italian from the Bronx.
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Re: Thailand Americas
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,693 Likes: 22
Monkey Butt
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Monkey Butt
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,693 Likes: 22 |
So finish the story bout the guy in the Iraqi gun shop that shot the gay guy in the cangles for riding a Harley.
I try to aggravate one person a day. Today may be your day.
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Re: Thailand Americas
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 224
Adjunct
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Adjunct
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Don't our dealers get the Triumphs in a crate and do some of the assembling at the dealership? Just how much of the assembling goes on in Thailand (or wherever) and how many pieces to the dealers get them in?
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Re: Thailand Americas
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 123
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 123 |
Quote:
Don't our dealers get the Triumphs in a crate and do some of the assembling at the dealership? Just how much of the assembling goes on in Thailand (or wherever) and how many pieces to the dealers get them in?
The America, Speedmaster, and Rocket come with the front wheel, off the bike. The mirrors are also off the entire Bon line. The rocket also has the handel bars off. All of this is done to keep the height of the crates a standard size, keeping shipping costs down.
Not much to really assemble on the bikes, but Triumph has a pretty stringent check list for PDI on the bikes.
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Re: Thailand Americas
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,555
Loquacious
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Loquacious
Joined: Aug 2006
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And you thought this thread was gonna die.
Had to know so i went and checked the vin on my 06.
I have what may become the coveted "J" so at least I can say
when asked. Yes this bike was at least assembled in England.
All be it the parts come from everywhere. So I wont go taking the Union Flag stickers off.
Heres somthing else that I dont think anyones brought up.
Lets say there's a guy at one of the Thai plants making 7 bucks a day, knowing that there are workers in England doing the same job for a whole lot more,he knows hes building a machine that is probly going to be shipped to the US, and that its a machine that he himself would never be able to afford to buy. Ya think this guy might be just a little bit
bitter?. Lets say he accedently drops a small screw in a crankcase, a real accedent not on purpose, but just how hard you think that guy is gonna look for that screw?
Historicly thats been the problem with slave labor.
Second thought is. Ok Triumph is doing this to expand production to meet a growing demand. Thats cool.
What if there is a future slump? And Triumph decides it needs to make cuts. Do you make the cutbacks where you are
paying someone 3 bags of rice aday? Or do you make it where
you are paying a real wage in Pounds?
The percentage you're paying is too high-priced
While you're living beyond all your means
And the man in the suit has just bought a new car
From the profit he's made on your dreams
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Re: Thailand Americas
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,836 Likes: 5
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,836 Likes: 5 |
Sadly, the answer to 1 is yes, because in third world countries, where outsourcing occurs, that dude is conscientious purely because he or she has a long line of hopeful replacements waiting to get the job he screwed up. They don’t give a ****** what they make, assemble, grow or pick. They need that job and they have to protect it.
The answer to 2 is, Once industry tastes the sweet fruits of outsourcing, they’re hooked – Like a drug. If there is a downturn in production, rest assured payment to the remaining assemblers will be in rice not pounds.
And that is the problem when confusing ‘Global Economy’ with pure ‘outsourcing’, the later of which is what is happening here. It would be different if the good folks on the board at Triumph were looking to satisfy expanded demand in a region they could not supply, i.e., North America – Much like the Japanese did. But that isn’t what’s happening here folks. Sometimes ‘outsourcing’ is a by-product or this Global Economy, just by nature of Geographic’s – but they are not, and need not be one-in-the-same. What’s happening is cheap, underhanded ‘labor pimping’, purely to save a buck. Don’t confuse the two.
The Triumph will continue to be a good product, simply by design. But, the mystique and lure of the marque will certainly be tarnished for some of us.
2004 Triumph Speedmaster (J Lo) 2006 Yamaha Stratoliner (Adele)
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Re: Thailand Americas
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 123
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 123 |
Quote:
And that is the problem when confusing ‘Global Economy’ with pure ‘outsourcing’, the later of which is what is happening here. It would be different if the good folks on the board at Triumph were looking to satisfy expanded demand in a region they could not supply, i.e., North America – Much like the Japanese did. But that isn’t what’s happening here folks. Sometimes ‘outsourcing’ is a by-product or this Global Economy, just by nature of Geographic’s – but they are not, and need not be one-in-the-same. What’s happening is cheap, underhanded ‘labor pimping’, purely to save a buck. Don’t confuse the two.
First off, the reason Japan started manufacturing in the US of A was to beat the very stiff tarrifs on inport vehicles the government imposed to drive the prices up on them, in an effort to push people into buying American. Japanese companies foud a way to beat the system by staring opperations here. They also brought prosperity back to some failing comunities.
Triumph was having problems meeting demands, and needed a way to bump up production. Most people don't know that Triumph had suspended their demo program for a few months this past year because the demand was beyond the supply they could put out of the Hinkley plant. If wanting to continue growing, and doing so by upping production in another part of the world is wrong, I guess people wouldn't mind getting on a wait list for bikes, and the price being a great deal higher.
Triumph couldn't open a factory in the US unless they staffed it with illegal aliens. At our labor costs, they would have to charge about 13K for a base model America.
Of course, if you and a few hunderd people you know are willing to work for say 6.53 an hour, Triumph may look into opening a plant in the US.
Also, what I'm getting from a few here is you wouldn't have a problem with a Triumph assembled in the USA, but have a problem with one being assembled in Thailand. Being that easily 65% of building a motorcycle falls to the hands of unskilled labor, unskilled Americans are better then unskilled Tahilanders ?
IT's 2007 people............. wake up.
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Re: Thailand Americas
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821 |
Quote:
Triumph couldn't open a factory in the US unless they staffed it with illegal aliens. At our labor costs, they would have to charge about 13K for a base model America.
Of course, if you and a few hunderd people you know are willing to work for say 6.53 an hour, Triumph may look into opening a plant in the US.
Some interesting figures you're tossing around there. I'm interested in the method you used for your calculations.
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Thailand Americas
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,836 Likes: 5
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,836 Likes: 5 |
Quote:
Also, what I'm getting from a few here is you wouldn't have a problem with a Triumph assembled in the USA, but have a problem with one being assembled in Thailand. Being that easily 65% of building a motorcycle falls to the hands of unskilled labor, unskilled Americans are better then unskilled Tahilanders ?
I don't have a problem with Triumph. I have a problem with outsourcing and the effect it has on the GLOBAL freakin ecomomy. I have nothing against Thais. I just believe that moving operations to a region or nation in which there is little or no market has a resulting detrimental affect on national (any nation) trade deficits. And I have nothing against someone, yes even outsourced labor, of getting ahead. But, I also believe ones progress should not be at the expense of anothers. The primary industrial nations are fast becoming the place where the only available work is in the service industry - ecomomies can't survive that way and standards of living of the working stiff is the first to suffer. It didn't start with Triumph, or the big three, the steel industry, or the textile industry. It started with those ****** rubber shower shoes immediately after WWII and has escalated ever since. And each of the aforementiond has either withered or died in the aftermath. Keep that in mind each trip you make to Wal-Mart.
Last edited by pipedr; 03/10/2007 11:57 PM.
2004 Triumph Speedmaster (J Lo) 2006 Yamaha Stratoliner (Adele)
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Re: Thailand Americas
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 123
Adjunct
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Adjunct
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 123 |
I'm just spitballing to make my point with the numbers on the price of a Triumph built in the US, it would more then likely be higher then I stated.
As for the manufacturing of the motorcycles, it's also off the top of my head, but I'd wager I'm fairly close with the precentage . The skilled labor to build a bike is in the machining of parts, engine assemble, welding of members, and some paint work.
In the machining end of it, it's often an operator keeping up with CNC machinary, not 30 machinests doing line bores on cam journals, so even there, much of the skilled labor that was present in days past is gone. Once a CNC program is made for a job, there's little to do besides setting pieces into position. I serviced and repaired automated production machinary for about 3 years, so I do have some background in what I'm saying here.
A lot of welding has also gone to an automated process on a number of components. So has painting, so that leaves engine assemble as the highest skilled need to build bikes. General assemble is not rocket science, and most people can be trained to be a human robot installing swing arms on 3 models of bikes all day long.
Now, I'm not looking at only Triumph, but the industry with my conclusions. Yes, some places do encourage cross training to cover themselves in the event of a person caling in sick, vacations and such to keep production from falling behind.
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Re: Thailand Americas
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
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Well, HD can sell a Sporty for around 8k. They pay their workers about $34 per hour including benefits.
One can make a product and sell it at a profit while taking care of ones employees at the same time.
The whole outsourcing thing and the argument of losing business is nothing new. In the antebellum southern USA one argument for keeping slavery was that it would ruin the economy if plantation owners had to pay employees to do the work of slaves.
It really boils down to how much profit is enough, and with the maturation of the "me generation" the answer is that it's never enough.
It would be a wonderful thing to bring the economies of third world nations up to competitive status, but the whole purpose of the outsourcing trend is to keep them repressed so as to maintain a source of cheap (read slave) labor.
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: Thailand Americas
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,183 Likes: 2
Learned Hand
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Learned Hand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,183 Likes: 2 |
Just to add fuel to the fire.
I asked questions to the people I know , who know people.
the bikes are made in Taiwan not Thailand.
it was a parts plant that shipped parts to england for assembly.
Now it does the assembly also.
Now or in the near future all the classic line will be produced there.
this includes every bike but the sport line.
all classics and cruisers; Rockets, Americas , Speedmasters,
Bonnies, Scramblers and Thruxtons.
I can not and will not verifiy anything I have stated here.
I am only repeating what I have heard.
And yes , I would buy one regardless.
this is the way of the corporate world.
I would by a Triumph , because it is a Triumph not for any
other reason.
Thank you , and have a nice day.
Pete
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Re: Thailand Americas
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821
Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,821 |
Hmmmm, that could explain why the PRC wants Taiwan so badly.
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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