Bonneville America Forums Forums Off Topic Discussion Forums Lounge Thailand Americas

Funny how one will buy a German BMW for its "quality", and yet its assembled in the USA, and that comes at the expense of German jobs, right? Look, if the quality stands up to stuff, or even improves, I am okay with the place of assembly. Asia is bigtime growth market for the world, to assemble closer to the big growth markets just makes sense on so many levels, its easy to see. Plus, add in a seond plant to build product offers expanded ability to bulild more products, expand the lines, develope newer prodiucts, and get benefits from economies of scale. Another plus is that the bikes wont be made in the world's bigger slave state ( China ) and thus is much more respectable for a place of manufacture, and one can have a clear conscious for buying products sourced from here.

As for the jobs situation, I need proof that this creates layoffs and the like. This is a competitive world, and jobs are going to be fought for, so if the jobs were so dearly wanted they should have made the needed accomodations to get Triumph to build it all there ( although, that doesnt address the reduced costs of shipping one gains from assembly in Asia for products destined for Asia. Here in the USA, jobs often are not at risk because of wages, but more so for benefits that are out of sight, the retirement packages that bleed ( think GM ) companies dry, and super heavy handed govt regs that skyrocket costs of production and make overseas production much less complicated and less expensive.

So, with a beautiful, well designed bike, make quite well and priced quite nicely, why not buy it?

Hi Bobu,

According to that vin decoder my 02 America is an unknown model of a Norton/Austin with an invalid check digit that was built in 1990.

I agree with Bob. Part of the reason I bought my TBA was because it was made in England. I completley understand about the "global market", Dwight. PT Cruisers made in Mexico, Mercedes made in Alabama, BMWs made in SC. It is important to keep a company healthy and keeping cost down to be competitive. But I want to know where my things are made including, clothes, stereos..whatever. I even know my old '95 Ford Explorer is made in Louisville,Ky. The point is, if I buy a Triumph, I want it to be made in England. If I buy a BMW or Mercedes, I want it to be made in Germany. If I buy a Chevy or Dodge or Jeep I want it to be made in America. Call me a purist or whatever you want to call me, that's just the way I am. And Adey would you feel the same way if the British would receive the made in Taiwan twins? I guess the next bike I buy will have to be a R-III. They are still made in England aren't they

See, Gina that's another thing I don't get. A Triumph made in Britain is more expensive to buy there then in the US and they don't have to be shipped half way across the world. What's up with that? Is it an economy thing? As you can tell I do not understand the whole exchange rates thing.

well, I guess I have to side with Adey, Dwight, and some of the others here. I bought my America because of how I felt when I saw the bike, and read the reviews, and sat on it, not because of where it was assembled. That it WAS assembled in England is just and added bonus for me. But had it been assembled in Japan, Malaysia, etc..., it wouldn't have mattered, because I have come to grips a long time ago with the whole global economy thing. Doesn't mean I like it lock, stock and barrel, and some of the effects it has locally on working people, but sorry, anyone who buys anything based on "where it was made" is SORELY, SORELY deluding themselves. For those people who buy Bosch Power Tools, or Automotive parts, or their really cool high priced German appliances for example, well, some components MIGHT actually be German, but the Spark Plugs are made in Ukraine, the Appliances in New Bern, North Carolina, and Power Tools south of the US Border I'm sure. When BMW put up their plant in South Carolina, their quality and the "Made in Germany" thing were a BIG concern, but that seems to have gone by the wayside, cause I see an AWFUL lot of SC-Made BMW's on the road, in fact, they're almost as common as Toyotas anymore. The Japanese are VERY proud and nationalistic sometimes, and they don't seem to have a problem reverse importing "Made in Ohio" or "Kentucky" Hondas and Toyotas, so why should I have a problem with a made in Asia Triumph. I laugh when I talk to a girl friend of mine who tells me her family will only buy American, cause they don't want the money going back to Japan. Now she is a pretty smart cookie by my book, but I just don't get here on this one, cause GM and FORD have singlehandedly done more to undermine the working man/woman in the US than any other company (with the exception of companies like Maytag!), by almost exclusively sourcing their components from overseas or Mexico, while the "Foreigners" make a point of sourcing components from US BASED suppliers, because of quality issues. Sure, the money goes back to Japan, but last I checked, all of the Foreign companies are also trading on Wall Street, and that's her point. Profits from GM & FORD & DC are "going into American pockets, not Japanese". Well, no offense, but I'm not particularly thrilled if I help someone out on Wall Street, because it's pressure from stock brokers and the hope of driving up short term gains on Wall St. that has been the demise of many American factories, not to mention speculators driving up the cost of living. My point being, if you're going to pass on something because of a baseless argument over something like where it's assembled in a ever-more global economy that is unstoppable, then you'd better be prepared to miss out on a LOT of things in life.

It just occurred to me that I have the most expensive SM in the world (or at least on this site).
I paid 10.700 Euros for my bike in '04 which works out to about US$14.000.

Boy, do I feel unique!

Ok ... for those that used the VIN Decoder and got some somewhat off information, that decoder is generic and should only be used to figure out some of the placement numbers. The actual Vin configuration that Triumph uses is slightly different. You'd have to refer to the thread from Triumphrat.net that I linked in that post for the exact info.

For those that think I'm short-sighted or that I'll be missing out on a lot of things because I am concerned about where my motorcycle of choice is manufactured ... I don't get this worked up over anything else regarding location of assembly. My motorcycle is an extra expense. I don't have to have it ... therefore, as a luxury item I can and WILL be rather discerning in what I purchase. I will also use whatever criteria I feel is necessary to insure that I am happy with said purchase. I would not be happy with a Triumph assembed in Thailand. As a matter of fact I rather think there should be a decal on them like the earlier Triumphs had ... only now instead of "Made in England" ... the new ones should have a "Made in Thailand" plastered right on the side of the bike somewhere.

Sure it's a British motorcycle, same design, same parts, same everything pretty much ... but it's missing one very important thing. Where it was made or assembled for those who would like to be picky. Yes many of it's parts come from all over the world ... I understand that. But as a luxury item ... I get to choose why I do or do not spend my hard earned money. I WILL NOT purchase a "Made in Thailand" Triumph.

Yes I'm happy that the company is doing so well that they have to open another assembly plant. Yes this IS the price you pay for success. If I want an America that I can proudly say was "Made in England" then I suppose I'll have to wait till sometime next year.

Yes I have a plan. My younger brother will be stationed in Germany in the Air Force. I'll just send him the money to cruise on over to the UK on a weekend and purchase an authentic "Made in England" Bonneville America. He can ship it back when he returns to the states ... till then he can break her in for me.

Problem solved.

Oh by the way. Adey, if this were not an option for me. Yes, I would take you up on your offer to bring my "Made in England" TBA to me.

Ade, it is now a new day. I have read all of the above posts and they have their merits. It is after all a matter of choice. I have thought about it and I agree with those that will not purchase a made in Thailand Triumph. Someone asked if they would purchase a Triumph made in England, but assembled by Thai workers. I would, as those Thai. Workers would live and work in England and it would still be a made in England Triumph. A Triumph assembled in Thailand would be made by Thai. workers living and working in Thailand. It would not be made in England, and that is what I want. Even if it is just as good I still want my Triumph to come in a crate from England. I could not connect to(as someone here put it ) a “Thaiumph” I am going to take very good care of my “made in England” Triumph America because I will not be buying another.
Would you buy A Ducati made in China?
Would you buy a BMW made in Turkey?

Be honest, if Triumphs were made in Thailand from the very begining would you have bought one?

I posted this on the RAT site and will just cut-and-paste what I said there:

You know things could be a lot worse - look at MG for example. Another long time British icon that is now owned by a Chinese company that plans on re-starting the brand with Chinese built vehicles. There was even a rumor that they may build a plant in Oklahoma to build vehicles. A "British" vehicle, owned by a Chinese company and built in Oklahoma. Don't know what to think of that.

Or how about Mini and Rolls-Royce, which are owned by BMW. Even though they are still assembled in England, ultimately the profits go back to Germany. FYI, BMW also owns the trademark for the Triumph Motor Company, in case they ever start building Spitfires again...

Bentley is owned by VW. Jaguar and Aston-Martin are owned by Ford (although, maybe not for long). Norton trying (and failing?) to get going again by a U.S. company.

Yeah, building bikes in Thailand is the end of an era, and it sucks. But lets get real, that era really ended 20 years ago and this is the most noticeable sign of it. I was never part of that era, so this doesn't bother me too much. The world moves on, and I'm young enough to move with it. I'm sure in 20 years, I'll be the cranky old fart yelling at kids to get off my lawn and telling people about my "classic" 2004 Triumph Speedmaster and how that was a "real" bike.

I think everybody should happy that the company is still an independently owned British company and that the profits still go back to the U.K.

You make a lot of good points Matt.(you whipper-snapper, you)

I think some of the resistance to this idea of the "siamese twins" is exactly because of the so-called "heritage" of this brand of motorcycle, which only H-D can also proudly boast, and which many of us older farts still put somewhat of a premium on when it comes to major purchases.

Secondly, when this talk of how much the same products costs in other countries, I sometimes think back to all the recent articles that I've read which state that an american can purchase a Corvette all day long for about $50,000....and yet, if a european or an asian wished to by this very same Corvette(or any "american" automobile....or even a H-D, for that matter)....SOMEHOW MAGICALLY the cost, after the currency conversion is calculated of this very same american product is about 50 percent higher than it would have been in the U.S.

So this tells me that is supposed "free-trade" that america has entered into these last 30 years, "kind'a/sort'a/maybe looks to be a one-way street, wouldn't ya say?

Yep! Let's dump all of these asian-made products in the good ol' U.S. of A, but for heaven sake, let's not make sure that there is a recipricating "open market" going the other way, huh?!

Hummm....What WAS that lastest dollar figure I saw recently about the trade imbalance between the U.S. and the rest of the world(especially China), anyway?

Was that really in TRILLIONS, with a "T", of dollars???

But I guess, seeing as how the american working stiffs purchasing power and his salary(subtracting of course for inflation) appears to be wanning, I guess all the new Walmart shoppers out there DO have to find someplace where they can afford to clothe their families nowdays with cheaply made chinese manufactured goods, huh?

Cheers,
Dwight

What about the Dutch shrimps that they send by truck down to Marocco to get peeled and then all the way back to be sold as "Fresh north sea shrimps"
but i still wouldnt like to buy a Triumph made in Thailand

Nick

I side with the "Would not buys".

Be honest, if Triumphs were made in Thailand from the very begining would you have bought one?

---

First of all I'm not anal enough to look and research who's building were and the nationality of the work force. Like I said I researched dependability, customer satisfaction, looked at the bike at the dealer, sat on the bike, and test drove then I was sold. In other words, HELL YES !

If my bike had been made in Thailand I probably would be riding a harely.

If my bikes had been made in Thailand, I would probably be riding some other euro trash....

Better listen up Triumph!!! Sounds like you will be losing sales if this continues.............

Chon Buri _ Triumph Motorcycles, one of the world's top producers of high-end motorcycles, yesterday opened its second plant in Thailand amid rising sales for the British company. ''We hope to open another one sometime soon,'' said Steve Sargent, managing director of the Thai operations.

The local unit, which has a capital base of 525 million baht, has already started operations in the second plant.

The British motorcycle icon, which competes with the likes of Harley Davidson of the United States and BMW of Germany, makes parts and components, while assembling the motorcycles in the Thai plant to be shipped outside Thailand.

The second plant, which was officially opened by Prince Andrew, will nearly double the production capacity of Triumph in Thailand from the current 50,000 units.

''Although I have never tried a motorcycle, my nephew, Prince William, owns a Triumph and enjoys it,'' Prince Andrew said.(But it wasn't built in Thailand though

''This is a turnaround story ... and shows where [Triumph] will be in the future and this has partly been possible by such facilities as we have here in Thailand.''"

I'm with the nay sayers, too. This is not just some generic transportation. It's a Triumph! I would love to buy a Tiger but if it were made outside England, I would look elsewhere. That's just MY opinion. We all do what's best for us.

Does this mean the Pinstriper signs the tank with a Chinese character? And NO, I would not buy a Triumph unless it was made in England.

We should make a poll. Wonder what the stats would be for a simple question of would you buy a Made in Thailand America or Speedmaster. As this group is very focused on that model range and already bought once it would say a lot.

Funny you should mention that, Brian.
A little side note:

Back in 1991, when the first modern Triumphs rolled out of then new Hinckley facility, the only worker who had any affilliation at all with the old Triumphs manufactured at the then razed older Triumph factories, was the gentleman who applied the pin-stripping to the new machines. I wish I could remember his name.

The new Triumph Company proudly acknowleged this little bit of information during their initial debut as some sort of proof as to their continuity of heritage and commitment to the english worker.

(just thought you'd be interested in this)

WHAT???!!!

Now Jackson....You can't be BOTH a Blue Oval AND a Bow Tie guy, you fence-sitter, you!!!

Pick one OR the other DUDE!!!

Cheers,
Dwight
(proud owner of a '69 El Camino and a 2000 Silverado...I mean you DO know that the other one stands for [F]ix [O]r [R]epair [D]aily, don't cha?!)

I would not buy ANY bike made in Thailand. Certainly not a bike with the colors of the British flag on it.

It would be disengenuous for Triumph to sell Thairumphs without the Thai flag on them.

If the long-awaited big cc cruiser is Asian-made, I'll be buying a Victory.

I am glad I purchased a 2k5 SM pre-thai assembly but I wonder how much it would have mattered if I was looking today? The bikes looks is what drew me to it followed by its heritage. I am on the fence on this one but can honestly say it would have a strike against it if it was made/assembled in thialand vs the UK. To me a bike is a luxery item and if I want something well assembled and functional I'd be riding a Honda.

my 2 cents.

Of course, always being the opportunists, I see the value of true UK made Triumph twins rising!

If they had to build a assembly plant outside the UK, here is where it should be.

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&sa...um=1&tab=wl

I really hate that they would move assembly out of the UK. It would still be the same British engineering and classic look that endears the name Triumph in all of us. If I looked at bikes all over again, I don't see another bike I would want over the Triumph. I really love the 05 TA I have and don't want to give up my wire wheels, tubes or no tubes. I guess it is just a little more special now.

It does seem like it would be smarter to build the bikes that are most popular over here in the U.S. That's why Honda builds the Gold Wings here. Triumph has to ship parts and assemblies to Thailand to be built and shipped to the U.S. You would think that the freight savings would offset the labor, but I guess our labor and UK labor are way higher.

There's a few points to this argument that a lot of us don't want to own up to.....Dwight has touched on some of these:

1. As consumers - we ultimately dictate the financial realities of the products we purchase - which (now) often includes Asian manufacturing. Your decision to shop at Walmart (which happens to be the number one leading offender on the falling prices philosophy) means that all others retailers must follow suit or fail. This trend ripples through every product made in the USA or the UK.

2. Resistance to improve - I can't speak for the UK, but I have been in the manufacturing sector most of my working life and the resistance to change (improve) is truly staggering. We're finally starting to get it. Toyota's Manufacturing System is considered the worlds standard in Lean (since the 60's) - and we are just starting to embrace it.

Toyota and Honda can make money using US labor, but the big 3 can't?

I'm fighting like he!! to keep the 130 people employed in our little factory - 75% of our products are shipped to Mexico and China to be assembled for our US based customers. We are starting to get it though....we have reduced our core product costs by nearly half over the past two years through lean efforts.......

Anyways - you can't avoid buying foreign goods, but you can chose not to fuel the Walmart fire.........

I'm not happy about the Thailand connection and don't know how this will impact my next bike purchase - but keep in mind the little things you can do to insure that your kids will have jobs in the future....

The Thai ( Siamese ) people are not Chinese, nor is this plant one that uses slave labour like China. This is a capitalist nation, Triumph ADDED capacity in Thailand, they didnt take it from UK. They could have gone the ultra low cost way, and gone to RED China, they didnt. It the quality is there, the designs remain cool, then I will consider Triumph again, and will still recommend it to anyone.

For all that are screamin' about this, ever stop to ask why the assembly plant isnt located in the USA? Or even Mexico ( whose labour rate is four times that of China )? Would we rather that Triumph produce in low numbers, not have the capital to grow the line, and maybe not stay solvent?

Well said.