Bonneville America Forums Forums Technical Forums General Tech who wants a belt drive

ok there has been a lot of tlak of people wanting it, and people who would buy one if it was less. lets get a count of who would HONESTLY get one and if we get a decent # see if we can geta group discount. i am in for one

Frank

Count me in. I ordered one back in June but when I still didn't have a delivery date in September I cancelled and put on a new chain.

I'm interested, especially at a lower price. I'm not so sure I want to install it myself, but if the parts were cheaper, I could afford to pay for some help. I've got Pat's instructions printed out, but it would still be a chore for me.

me

there 4 of us, i emailed brent to see if this could happen, but i am sure the more of us there are the better chances of this happening, and hopfeully the cheaper

Frank

I'd be in for the right price.

The belt that Brent sells has a ratio of 2.45:1, same as running 42/17 sprockets. I run 42/18 sprockets for a ratio of 2.33:1. I'd like to run a belt, but I like the taller gearing I have now, so I guess I'll stick to a chain.

Cody

I doubt you could get much of a discount. Brent isn't making these. QDP still needs to recover tooling costs & R&D.

I'd get one. Like yota said tho, I doubt we'll get a cheaper cost from QPD.

its worth a try no? to me it would make more sense to take a cut and sell 5 of these then not and only sell one, plus if more people buy it and like it that would be the best pr around correct? i think there is a chance but yes it may not happen. worth trying tho

Frank

I'd be in for one at a nice price.

I wonder if there could be a modification or adapter made to use an existing belt drive kit for another kind of bike; Harley, Yamaha, Suzuki??? If so, the numbers would be on our side, except for the adapter or modification cost.

I too would go for one if the "price was Right" !

Eventually I'll get one but probably not until my chain and sprockets need replacing. That way I can cost justify it a little better. If you take off $200 for a good chain and sprokets then the delta is $500. Much more reasonable to think of it that way.

Its tax refund time and bonus time in January. I'd still like a better price though.

brent got back to me and it does not look like there is a not good chance of this happening. i understand it is a specialized thing but wouldent any business man want to sell more of there product?

Frank

You don't know anything about the product's supply and demand or manufacturing costs. No businessman is going to sell his product at a loss unless it's a loss leader for something else. Ozzie is a one-trick pony so it's no surprise he won't or can't come down in price.

no i see what your saying, i guess i was just thinking since this is not the first time these are being done that there would be a little room to play, but again i may be totally wrong. thought it was worth a try though, either way i am getting one

Frank

Nice try Frank. Who knows, maybe over time the price will come down a bit. I guess I'll start seriously looking again when it's near time to replace the chain/sprockets.

It could be done and he (they) would make money. Its just a matter of making the effort as I see it.

Group buys are fairly common on other commodities. If a group of people went together and placed an order for 10 or 15 I suspect that would virtually overwhelm their supply chain.

I get the impression that if you order one you wait as it is?

I'd think any machine shop could make one using the stock sprockets as a pattern for the output shaft and rear wheel spacing etc, I don't know what it'd cost, but you could get whatever gearing you want.

Let me go talk to my two machine shop guys. See what can be done here.
Nothing against Brent for sure or Ozzie. But I also remember about a year or two ago he was very ill (he's also about 400 years old) and stopped all work for many months and nothing was available for anyone for any bike.
Might be a good idea to have a backup plan.

QPD is not far from me, I have often thought of dropping by with $500 in cash to see what could be worked out. Maybe I'll drop by and see what the options are for a group buy.

If I can arrange it:

$$ / 5-10 units
$$ / 10-15 units
$$ / 15-20 units

The margins in most businesses can generally be flexible when the overall profit picture is taken into consideration. A smaller margin on 20 units sold at once is better than making full boat on those 20 sales that might take a year to materialize - time value of money (think waaaaay back to economics class)... Then again, sometimes a business owner will react on principle (especially with a UNIQUE product) and not be willing to play. It will not hurt to try. To me, in my business, every thing is available for negotiation. I often lower my fees for quick payment, otherwise I can end up waiting 60 to 90 days.

I agree the margins could be cut, BUT lets remember if this is one guy at his lathe and bridgeport churning these out, it will take him the same amount of TIME per unit to make 5 or 10 or 20, so for him we are paying for his time too.

`

I want two different choices on the front drive pulley size. Simulation of a 17x42 is way to low for me. The big reason I have not bought is price. For a lower number I would be interested.

When I get back from Florida will also be looking for a machine shop to do them up.

This will make you crazy, but years ago around the time that Ozzie was adapting his stuff to the Bonneville America someone posted about a belt drive kit in development elsewhere with billet aluminum pulleys. IIRC, the projected price was in the $550-600 range. Needless to say, that project dried up. What we really need is a competitor to QPD.

Yup thats whats needed. It sounds to me like QPD is too small and too much of a one man operation. I am sure the finished product is top notch but the lead times for something like this should not exceed two weeks after someone orders it.

I also would probably be happier with an 18x42 equivalent as I've gotten quite used to it. Not sure I want to go back to "looking for 6th".

You all americans are living in Harley country !!!!!!
there should be a machine shop which is making aftermarket kits for H-D maybe they (if they exist)could do for ours bikes.
setting machines for one or 20 kits is the same job making 20 is of course longer but machine is set already

Just question??


maybe this bloke who made this triumph for Metric TV he knows our bike already???

Setting up machines - yes, but one man running it still takes time. Good idea on the harley parts tho! All we really need is pully size and bolt pattern right?

I don't mean using harley parts but if there is machine shop wchich is doing harley thingy they should know how to do it for ours bikes, they have knowledge, and they now what they need to know to do this !!! clear??

ok english is my second language

Gregorz,

Quote:

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ok english is my second language

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Mine too!!!!!

I hope it happens. These things should be no more than a few hundred bucks. Lets say a guy spends a day setting up the specs. If he sells for 300 per set of pulleys and 10 of us buy, thats serious good money.

It is possible even some of the Bonnie folks will go belt if affordable.

Yeah I see what you mean and agree. I meant that the QPD guy is a one man show from what I hear. You are right, the tooling difference between the harly and ours shouldn't be much!

just now problem is to find machine shop which want to do something different- triumph belt drive set-but in my opinion there is a market for this item if the price is right looks like the number of america and speedie owners are growing as we can see on our web site

Yes...thats all we need is a shop or two somewhere willing and able and it looks like we have enough to probably make it worth their effort.

I have a friend that runs a machine shop..anyone care to donate their pulleys so he can have a look @ them?

If someone can do GOOD measurements I can whip up some CAD drawings of them.

Realy wouldnt be too hard to make, some drawings would be all a good machine shop should need. Why dont one of you engineers crank up the auto cad?

Patent Infrigement if you just take a part and copy it.Isnt it?

Ummmm yeah....
I just got a ...um... "copy" of autocad 2000 for my computer. I haven't mastered it yet, but what we really need is a bolt pattern, diameter, width, etc. That'll be standard no matter what.

if he can't do it I'll send you a used chain & sprockets.

Actually it is. I suppose I can't send mine to anyone for copying, ESPECIALLY now that I've posted about it publically. Oh well.

R&D= recover & duplicate

Hopefully this mythical machinist can find a way to make each sprocket a single piece. I've had the side plates on my front pulley get bent twice, semi-inexplicably. The first time was when my belt broke. The second is when my saddlebag bracket whacked the belt near the rear pulley under full shock compression whilst giving a young lady of rather considerable size a ride. I was able to fix it both times but it is a bit disconcerting.

Well this might be one of those things where its like how different can you possibly make it?

At any rate, if someone does have ideas, I'm happy to help with drawings. Or maybe if we can just give a machine shop some overall dimensions and they can take it from there...

for the right price, I would definately be interested

>Hopefully this mythical machinist can find a way to make each sprocket a single piece.

I kinda made reference to that possibility in this thread:
http://www.bonnevilleamerica.com/forums/...p;page=0#179524

That would be the MPB sprocket option, and would depend on the availability of sprockets in the desired dimensions.
Then there's the problem of getting splines broached.
Is there another way?
Dunno.

This duscussinon seems to be focused on replicating the QPD design.
According to what some have said, it appears that that design in turn is based around a Harley belt.
That's good in terms of availability, but is it optimal for this application?
Dunno.

If the belt could be wider and/or pulleys larger, that would contribute a lot to longevity.
Is this possible?
Does it mitigate the downside re: availability?
Dunno, dunno.

I think alternative tooth profiles are worth a look, too.
Goodyear eagle belts use what they call a helical tooth design.
It looks like the tread on a tractor tire.
The helical part comes in because the teeth run onto the sprocket smoothly.
Like the difference between a Borg-Warner T10 & an old Mopar singing 4 speed in reverse gear.
In this analogy, the blackhawk is "spur cut" like the mopar's reverse.

The belt is self-centering as it runs, so flanges are not required.
This could result in an ability to use a wider belt, because the width of the flanges has been saved.
Goodyear distributors sometimes state that they are stronger by virtue of having longer teeth for the same belt width.
I don't know that Goodyear makes this claim, though.

Downsides & potential show stoppers:
Pulleys are scarce & dear.
There may not even be a stock pulley small enough for the front.
The element of economy that's the focus of this thread may be sacrificed.

I think the biggest downside to using a wider belt is replacing the sprocket cover. Anything wider than the belt used by QPD and there should be interference with the cover. On the QPD pulley the side plates are no thicker than 1/16" so you're not gaining much by omitting them. A wider belt would probably interfere with the shock and/or frame. You can't go anymore inboard so the thickness has to be added outboard. I'm already running without the chain guard so no biggie there.

bump!!!

I talked with one machine shop and he said it would be cost prohibitive for him to make them much cheaper than Ozzie sells them for. He says it really is a lot of work, hence the big price tags. he told me about $700-800, pretty much the same cost. I still need to talk to another machine shop that specializes more in fabrication then motor work.
If it had transistors in it I could make em!

I would imagine anything that is round and has teeth is going to be expensive to make no matter what.... But maybe a shop that makes these kind of things for a Harley might be better off. But then again they all come with belts, so is there even an aftermarket for them?

they have kits for older sportsters

Frank

oh and i emailed oz and he never got back to me

Frank

Insult his integrity (or ask a question that seems like you're impugning his integrity, even though you're not, you're just asking a question). He'll call to scream at you within a couple hours.

Would love a belt drive. But the chain is no problem, with the Scott Oiler, I rarely think about it.

It would have to be real cheap to justify the change.

Hmmm. Its safe to say we wont get a response to emails sent to him on this matter.

sadley i will still prob order one

Frank

ok boys if I can get from someone CAD drawing then I know where to ask and important thing what type of metal has to be used I've been advised that PA6 (non welded hard alu)and I think price could be more than right but need drawings for another step

I'd be in for one if some one else starts making them. My biggest problem with the QPD is, for the price, it's kinda ugly. If some one else was making them at the same price but they looked better, that would be something to think about.

I would buy a belt drive if it run 2.33:1 gearing (42:18), and was cheaper... the gearing is the main thing I'm after because after running this with the chain anything else would feel way too small!

This could be done. I highly doubt we would be dealing with any type of patent infringement issues. It's very simple: there are belts out there, they have specific teeth geometries, our bikes have specific bolt hole patterns front and back, gearing is an issue of geometry (ratio of one gear/sprocket/cog to another), belt width and frame/cover clearance issues need to be taken into consideration. It’s a matter of getting the dimensions, drawing the stuff up (of course always considering manufacturability issues), ensuring you are using proper materials, finding a machine shop with the right equipment, buying some hardware and voila (spit).

Umm, now that I have gone through this thought process, $700-$800 does not seem all that crazy for what needs to be done to make these dam things. Perhaps I’ll have to do a one off and see how that goes.

Was talking about belt drives with a friend of mine today.
(yes I have one or two of those)

He's doing a chop job on his sportster, going to convert it to a chain drive. Said he'd give me his old belt drive in exchange for some manual labor and a bit of machine work.

I'm gonna see if I can adapt the snortster drive to America,
If successful and I dont wreck when done I'll post some detail drawings.

Dont anybody hold your breath waiting this could take forever.

I went to his shop an picked up my belt drive.
he really is an cool old dude to talk to( listen to ),
I think he is in his 70's.

Hello Again !!
So I guess I'm the guy who opened this old can of worms again! I'm glad I'm not the only one with these same apprehensive thoughts! Good luck to all who are going to try and come up with a solution.
I feel obligated to let you know where I stand on this....I may well buy one in the future if the project is successful. I can't commit financially because I need to do something right now. I am guessing this will take more than a couple months. My winter is over here in early April, so I need to get the rag out and buy something for the old girl. The other factor is the carrot that Triumph is holding out for us about the "Rocket Two", I've been patient and had almost given up, but now I'm hearing "probably for sure" next year. So I don't want to spend too much money on this old Black Beauty.
Guess I'll just replace the chain and sprockets for now. Think I will use a JT brand x-ring 530 chain. About 2/3 the price of the dealer kit.
I am also planning to order the VTS visors and the memphis shades lowers. Any thoughts??

I envy a lot of you guys who can ride all year long!

Gerry.