Bonneville America Forums Forums Off Topic Discussion Forums Lounge No respect

My brother has been looking for a new motorcycle and we have looked at everything from a Rebel to a Rocket.

How do you tell when a motorcycle salesman is lying? Their lips are moving. I asked the Kawasaki guy about the small front wheel on the new 900 Custom, if it had a large enough patch for stopping. He told me cruisers always used their back brakes only. I asked him how he had suddenly repelled the laws of physics concerning weight transfer, that cars, trucks, motorcycles-everything uses up to 70% of their front wheels for braking.

Anyway of all the people we talked to most,(who knew what a Triumph was) were very respectful of my bike and thought it was a cool bike-except for the Harley sales guy. We looked at a Fat Boy and he was telling me how under powered my bike was and that I wouldn't be able to keep up, with a Fat Boy. We walked of course and I looked up the spec on the mighty Harley. 75 HP and 640 pounds, that comes to less than one HP per pound difference between my America and the Harley. It's a nice looking bike and 6 speeds would be great but I could buy two America's with change left over. Plus my brother and I both have livestyles.

Then I read the latest Torque magazine and the tone of the review of the America and Speedmaster was "I really wanted to do this review in California and the TBA and TBS are okay even if they are cruisers and all." He said, “Cruisers aren’t designed for sustained speed”. Funny thing I can run all day at 80.

The trend is toward bigger, heavier bikes and I know a bigger displacement twin will probably replace the Speedmaster in the near future but I hope they keep an 800cc America in the lineup. For 90% of the riders(myself included) the limitation is not the bike but the rider's skills.

Anyway, my brother is leaning toward the Speedmaster but shopping for motorcycles has been every bit as bad as cars. I really think an 800cc bike is a reasonably sized cruiser for average sized people. Hell of a lot easier to pickup or wheel around a parking lot than a 700 or 800 pound machine and does everything I want it to do-including cruise at 80 on the highway.

End of rant

Sometimes I go into these dealerships to kill time and look around. I often ask a stupid question or two just to check honesty and knowledge - Not many pass the test.

Don't get too disgruntled. I think most of us have experienced "small minded" sales people. I generally do a lot of research before buying a bike and find that most salesman know less than half of what I know about a particular bike. I usually test salespeople before I really start a converstation. My normal first question is how much horsepower the bike has. If they are WAY off, I start wondering what else their lying about. My wife does not bike shop with me anymore because I have corrected a few salespeople in her presence. Maybe next time they will actually research their product..... I'd rather they just say "I don't know". At least I would still have a little respect for them.
When I was shopping for my Mean Streak one salesman quoted me a price of $10,600 OTD for a leftover. I went back 2 days later and asked a different saleperson the OTD price on the exact same bike. He quoted me $8,800 OTD....NO JOKE! That is why I usually ask 2 salespeople about the same bike before even considering it. You never know what kind of deal "the other guy" might give you.
I had a very similar experience while shopping for a lawnmower. One guy offered me the SAME exact unit for 25% less than the first guy.

Get your America or Speedy...line it up against a bone stock Fat Boy.

Just makes me even more glad that I have the dealer that I do.

Soren

I made the mistake of knowing exactly what I wanted when I went in to buy my SM. Thanks to this website, and my own research, I already knew all the answers, and just needed someone at the dealership to write the deal.

Wound up being the worst "purchasing experience" I have ever had. Took 4 weeks to get the bike delivered to me, and I made every single phone call to find out what the hold up was. I don't even think that salesman was still working there when I took delivery.

Live and learn. THAT won't happen again.

One of the the reason's I was sorry see to my old dealer loose the Triumph line was. The sales staff and the owmer actually rode bikes themselves.If you went on a test ride one of the owners led. Now I'm gonna have to go to one of those Motor Cycle "Super" dealerships.

There are a lot of salesmen then simply don't - or can't - know everything about all the bikes on the floor, especially if the dealer sells more than one brand. Car dealers are no better.

You make a good point about the 865. It's a great mid-sized cruiser for those of us that don't want a full dresser just to take the wife out for a Sunday ride. That being said, I'm looking forward to the upcoming big cc Cruiser from Triumph. As long as it doesn't come from Thailand...

I have yet to have any Harley keep up with me on my America. I love playing with those boys, ticks them off. Fact of the matter is, I have only had one bike utterly smoke me, and that was a Rocket. Folks I ride with feel bad that even though they have 1200-1600 CC Cruisers, I blow them away. I am pretty sure it is the CC weight ratio that gives me an edge on performance and handling.

Seems most Americans still have the "bigger is better" mind set. I dont see too many of the Brit's whinning for a big bore "heavey cruiser".

I agree with Speedy 05. Can't wait for the new Cruiser to debut, but it has to pass my visual test first, then of course be made by Brits.
Tommy

I stated this in a previous post. I currently have a 1600 Mean Streak and I find that sometimes I just don't want to have to push it out of the garage. It weighs 700lbs. I liked my previous Magna, at 550lbs, much better. That is why I'm shopping for a SM. I'm sure it won't be as fast at the Meany, but it might be close.

I just do not know why I feel this way anymore, but I will not buy Jap cars or Jap bikes.

I quess it is still an late 70's early 80's thing when I lived in Chicago and so many people I knew lost their jobs directly or in-directly in the US auto industry with the Jap invasion.

I worked at Electro-Motive in LaGrange, IL. (GM) and anyone who drove a Jap car had to park in an enclosed lot about 1\2 mile walk to the plant entrance, alot of those Jap tires seemed to fail unexpectedly prone to slash type blow outs and their windshields seem to blow out at night for some reason.

there was a time when a 650 was the big boy on the block, h.d. was the next step and the you either got a 45 or a 74 and the Brit 650 would dust them. then came the Brit 750 twins and OH WOW that was the bike to have. h.d has always been a slug, even their 74 was so much slower and way more combersome then the Brit 650. and then came the jap's with their 750-4 and the rest as they say is history. that bike didnt handle all that well, great in a straight line but not so good in a situation that called for manuvering. bigger is not always better !!!!! i think my America is one of the best handleing bikes out there and is fast enough to get me from point A to point B in as much time as anybody else with a cruiser. i tell most people she handles like a sport bike and sits like a cruiser, what more could you want?? i may not be as quick as some bikes but i really dont care, if i wanted quick i would be all hunched over on a crotch rocket of some kind. my main concern is AM I COMFORTABLE GETTING THERE. answer YES!!!!!! i really dont care about stats!!!! i care about me, comfort, dependability, and agility. so these days with technoligy being what it is and engineering being what it is, i dont know if it matters about stats, i think it is more of an eye of the beholder thing. Are you happy about what you see when you look out at your bike, are you comfortable when you ride it, does it get you where you want to go without trouble, does it keep up with a crowd if you are rideing in one and are you able to move it around comfortably in its resting place. hahahahaha i have a friend who rides a maxed out h.d. (top of the line, everything on it) and the other night i stopped by to see him and maybe take a ride, well, he was trying to get this big ****** bike up on the lift he had just got hahahahahahaha he was haveing to stand the bike up straight to get the jack lift under it hahahaha he couldnt do it by himself hahahaha he was glad i showed up when i did cuz he was haveng a time hahaha and was scared to death when we were letting it down cuz of the lean to the kickstand hahahahha i kept sayin, i got it relax hahahahaha but when i want to put my bike up on the lift, its no big deal ( and believe me i let him know it hahahahaha i love raggin on them h.d. boys hahahahaha) remember BIGGER IS NOT ALWAYS BETTER!!!!!

Newt,
I have to agree with all you said and I might add that the America's and SM's with the 790 or 865 will go thru the twisties much faster than the average rider can push them...bigger engine/more power...why?

right larry!!! when i run the Dragon and them kids on their crotch rokets couldnt believe how that cruiser leaned, i knew right then and there i had made the right choice for sure. i was rideing with a small group of v-twins and i would find myself waiting for their arrival, i would usually be finished with a smoke before they started showing up hahahahahaha NAAAA this Triumph does everything i need a bike to do, and thats all that matters to me. like i said BIGGER IS NOT ALWAYS BETTER. and in the case of motorcycles i am a firm believer agility and adiquit size means alot!!!!! i laugh when someone ask the CC'S of my bike, i always ask back, does it really matter if it gets me there and i can stomp just about any h.d. in the process hahahahahahaha

I know how you feel Poppy. I worked for Beth Steel for almost 20 years in their state of the art Electric Furnace meltshop. Built in 1979 at a cost of 110 million dollars. World class, no better steel produced anywhere in the world. Oh and I forgot to add - Within the last two years the entire facility has been dismantled and sold to China for SCRAP. -Tommy

Tommy,

Nice looking bike, what is that thing sticking up looks like an old suicide shifter.

yes , right side jockey shift
Tommy

Never saw one on a Triumph looks cool.

Post deleted by Grump

I have experianced very little lack of respect for the Triumph name, and my dealer was great. I've been lucky. I've smoked a few Harley's and look forward to smoking more. I've had my bike on the Dragon and was amazed at the handling. I have to keep mine in a basement and it AIN"T easy getting it in and out... the low weight of the bike was the first selling point for me. (bad knee)Now the whole bike is a huge selling point in and of itself. I'm in love and plan on not ever having to replace it. Hmm, somehow I feel better having shared. ;-)

hey Tal, how do you get them hardleys to fit in the paper, or do you prefer a pipe???

redbike....go to Waco to the folks at EuroCycle and just buy an America/Speedmaster or a Rocket III .. Great guys

I have mentioned before I like to stop at the local yocal new and fancy Harley shop* nearby just to talk Motorcyles with ANYONE...and the salesmen NEVER know about any new HDs (let alone other brands) coming down the pike. Don't they EVER READ the RAGS at the grocery store??? I think I know more about HD's just from reading discussions on THIS TRIUMPH forum than a number of the salesman...go figure?

good night (i'm just frustrated 'cause the inevitable happened--the Bears lost)

*Hearing all the HD's fly by every Saturday morning when the new store opened in 2004 is what got me interested in resurrecting my '73 bonnie and eventually getting my current '04 TBA!

I wonder how much of this comes down to maybe that most salesman are basically looking at the dollars and cents equation of any encounter. While a few may know their stuff(the particulars of each model, the history of their product or the industry in general), I'd say many if not most are just trying to put food on the table.

While this does not excuse that fact that many salesmen don't "do their homework" and appear to not know what they're talking about(I believe one has to have a passion for something to really know the in's and out's of whatever that "something" is), I'd say this pretty much explains this phenomenon.

And BTW Jack, off-hand I'd say that the reason our brit friends seem to complain less about the lack of "real" power in our bikes is because the whole island over there is about the size of California. If one would attempt to ride the "Superslabs" of America, say from CA to NY, on a BA or Speedy, I think a "little more" power would be quite welcomed by most of us Yanks who could find themselves out in the middle of nowhere on Interstate 40 attempting to stay well ahead of those semi-trucks that roam those superslabs at 80+ MPH, hours on end.

Cheers,
Dwight
(now if you'll all excuse me, I have an appointment with Dr. Vinny Boombatz!.....the Rodney Dangerfield fans["no respect"] out there will get this one)

We also have these things called mountains over here. Go up any good sized mountain grade into a headwind and you'll find out why our bikes could use a little more power. Our bikes are built to be around town cruisers, the 16 tooth front sprocket on the original Speedmasters is testament to that.

(And Dwight...that was Dr Vinny Boombah, not Boombatz.)

I have been a salesman (freight) for thirty years now and pride myself on KNOWING EXACTLY WHAT MY COMPETITION IS UP TO.

I have taught myself every facet of the company I worked for and I know the LARGE and FINE PRINT of every service we offer.

I do not care if you sell cotton balls or airplanes take the manuals home at night, and read everything you can get your hands on about your company in industry and financial publications.

The most important thing is to use your product and understand its strenghts and weakness as well as your competitors.

There is a fine line between slamming your competition (you should never do)and comparing (which you should do).

This is the difference between working like a slug for twenty different companies in one year. Or running a successful sales force for over 15 for one.

The Japanese and everyone else is getting what they gave back in spades from China and Korea. These countries start out with nothing wages but little by little their standard of living rises and as it does they buy more things and they have to look around for better paying jobs--and the wheel keeps going around. The cost to have something manufactured in Japan is about the same as the US now.

You're right. Good salespeople don't get enough credit-it's the jerks that everyone remembers.