 K&N splitter
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Over on the Delphi Bonnie forum, I ran across a thread where a guy with a regular Bonneville had adapted these splitters inside his K&N filters.  The principle behind them goes like this: "The idea behind the splitters is they accelerate the air going into the carb. The stock airbox does a good job of creating velocity (faster moving airflow). When you replace the airbox with K&N's, you give up that velocity." So that has me wondering if our bikes with Freak type mods to them could possibly benefit with this approach. Any gearheads out there care to chime in on this? Is it worth doing?
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Re: K&N splitter
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Learned Hand
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Just my $0.02 worth, but looks and sounds like a load of BS to me. All that seems to be doing is introducing yet another obstruction into the air path; might get increased gas velocity (torque) but now the mass air flow has another hurdle to jump, which will impact the top-end horsepower. Like anything else that's performance-oriented, the best place to validate or invalidate that would be on a dyno.
Michael D. Rodriguez
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Re: K&N splitter
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Big Bore
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Big Bore
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I'd want to hear the science behind this. Not the "I heard it from a friend who heard it from a friend" Hey, that's a song too! 
"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity" - Robert Heinlein
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Re: K&N splitter
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If K&N are making "performace air filters" I'm sure they would want their share of the market by producing this item themselves if it was worth it.....
TBA, Stainless extractors / drag pipes, 65mm over forward controls, Thruxton needles, 904cc, head ported, lowered 1-inch, Console removed, relocated battery box, Australia.
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Re: K&N splitter
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Learned Hand
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I don't see how this rig could increase velocity...Perhaps a round tube in attached in front of the filter could.
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Re: K&N splitter
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perhaps an exhaust-driven turbine would add some velocity to the intake...
There is no greater thrill than being shot at with no consequence. -Churchill
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Re: K&N splitter
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I was talking to a mate about increasing air flow, and he came up with a great idea..... Mandrel bend some muffler pipe to a right angle, then have a harley style hyper filter sticking out each side! Forced air induction for each carbureter!
Bring on another 5hp!  (and it would look sweet) 
TBA, Stainless extractors / drag pipes, 65mm over forward controls, Thruxton needles, 904cc, head ported, lowered 1-inch, Console removed, relocated battery box, Australia.
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Re: K&N splitter
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hyper charges are lame, and do nothing except look like an extra piece of poseur-biker accessory.
There is no greater thrill than being shot at with no consequence. -Churchill
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Re: K&N splitter
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Quote:
hyper charges are lame, and do nothing except look like an extra piece of poseur-biker accessory.
Surely they must do something? it is like sticking an air inlet snorkel out exposed to the on coming wind...... forced induction. (I understand they wouldn't help on a dyno)
TBA, Stainless extractors / drag pipes, 65mm over forward controls, Thruxton needles, 904cc, head ported, lowered 1-inch, Console removed, relocated battery box, Australia.
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Re: K&N splitter
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Saddle Sore
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Saddle Sore
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Just my addled opinion, but as long as you are going east, the air is moving west (relatively speaking). Unless you direct your intake west, the engine is just going to suck in what it can. This holey plate thing may add some turbulence to the airflow, but I don't see how it could increase velocity. Is turbulence a good thing??? I would imagine the same would hold true going north/south as well...
More flags
More fun!
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Re: K&N splitter
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Quote:
I was talking to a mate about increasing air flow, and he came up with a great idea..... Mandrel bend some muffler pipe to a right angle, then have a harley style hyper filter sticking out each side! Forced air induction for each carbureter!
I dunno that this would achieve the desired end result. imo, it would only serve to add to turbulence, which would restrict flow. The idea should be to have the carb's mounted to draw as much air as possible, in a non turbulent enviroment.
I suppose at some level this mod could work when thinking about it, it really serve's the same purpose as the so called "restrictor" in the stock airbox. Basically you create a smaller area for airmass to collect prior to entering the intake. This should in theory create more velocity.
I doubt seriously this would show a improvement on paper..( a dyno )...if there's one thing I have learned since I began modding my bike it's that gain's seen on paper compared to gain's felt by the seat of the pant's are 2 very different thing's.
Bring on another 5hp! (and it would look sweet)
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Re: K&N splitter
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Check Pants
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Check Pants
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Quote:
.....Not the "I heard it from a friend who heard it from a friend"
Hey, that's a song too!
Well, sort of...<g>. I'm more a fan of the earlier REO stuff.
Al
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Re: K&N splitter
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Check Pants
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Check Pants
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Quote:
hyper charges are lame, and do nothing except look like an extra piece of poseur-biker accessory.
Come on, you can't be talking about the Skull version, particuarly when partnered up with the skull theme mirrors....
Al
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Re: K&N splitter
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Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
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My intuition tells me that a stationary object can't accelerate anything.
Unless it has some sort of effect like the thumb on the garden hose. Yeah the water is flowing faster, but the pump has a harder time pushing it.
Benny
Black & Silver '02
Too many mods to list
Not enough miles ridden
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Re: K&N splitter
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Learned Hand
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To increase velocity you need to force air from a large diameter to a smaller one. A cone shaped object. The exact opposite of the K&N pods.
if life gives you lemons keep them because hey,free lemons.
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Re: K&N splitter
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Learned Hand
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Otherwise known as a venturi effect.
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Re: K&N splitter
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Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
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AKA the thumb over the end of the hose...
Benny
Black & Silver '02
Too many mods to list
Not enough miles ridden
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Re: K&N splitter
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Learned Hand
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Why are the carbs in back of the engine? I've seen pics of old Triumph choppers where they reversed the head putting the carbs in front and the exhaust out the back. Is it because of cooling? They want the exhaust side in the airstream maybe?
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Re: K&N splitter
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2 words. ridicules and rust 
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 Re: K&N splitter
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Loquacious
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Just recently I was reading CW(?) were they said even a Ninja or Busa only pressurize their airbox 1 or 2 percent.
Steelheart- '03 Speedmaster Black/Yellow
The Hayabusa Killa
16" Shorties/140 mains/Airbox drilled
Procom CDI
"There is no cure for Celibacy. But we can treat the symptoms."
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Re: K&N splitter
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Quote:
Why are the carbs in back of the engine? I've seen pics of old Triumph choppers where they reversed the head putting the carbs in front and the exhaust out the back. Is it because of cooling? They want the exhaust side in the airstream maybe?
I think it is because of heat disipation, if the exhaust was under the seat you would have a hot arse  . All bikes are set-up like this with exhaust sticking out the front so there must be a simple reason for doing so...
TBA, Stainless extractors / drag pipes, 65mm over forward controls, Thruxton needles, 904cc, head ported, lowered 1-inch, Console removed, relocated battery box, Australia.
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Re: K&N splitter
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Learned Hand
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I agree with Benny and Runner, a stationary object does nothing and if this was worth doing K&N would be doing it.
You do not want to create turbulence I thought that was the whole idea behind porting and polishishing to reduce turbulence.
John 06 America Mulberry\Silver
"Seemed Like A Good Idea At The Time"
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Re: K&N splitter
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Oil Expert
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Actually a degree of turbulence is a good thing in the right place. When porting & polishing you can go too far with the polishing as some turbulence is required to properly mix the air and fuel together. The idea in the inlet ports is to balance flow vs mix. However in the filter itself you're not mixing anything so you're after a greater flow rate hence LESS turbulence is the desired effect there.
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Re: K&N splitter
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right. That's why intake ports are rough-polished to promote good atomization of the intake charge, and exhaust ports are polished to a smoother degree.
There is no greater thrill than being shot at with no consequence. -Churchill
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Re: K&N splitter
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Complete Newb
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Complete Newb
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hay that guy knows some thing yall dont his little pice of
metel probably works there is two companys making this type
of thing for dirt bikes, one for the air box and one between the carb and cyclinder and i have felt them work first hand on a yz 250 big differance remember air volocity is very important some dirt
bike guys actully can change the id of there carb bores
with inserts and have anouther tuneing tool and alot of the time smaller is better
Last edited by bikefreak; 01/25/2007 9:59 PM.
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Re: K&N splitter
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Big Bore
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Big Bore
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I hear what you are saying but without any evidence, that's all it is; hearsay.
Like I said before, show me some science behind this. I always maintain an open mind for new ideas!
"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity" - Robert Heinlein
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Re: K&N splitter
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Loquacious
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Loquacious
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Phil- Heard it from another you've been messing around!!! I didn't think anyone remembered REO Speedwagon.
we should do this every weekend!
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Re: K&N splitter
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Check Pants
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Check Pants
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Quote:
Phil- Heard it from another you've been messing around!!! I didn't think anyone remembered REO Speedwagon.
Hey, we're all just ride'in the storm out....
Al
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Re: K&N splitter
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Learned Hand
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And of course you can tune a piano but you can't tuna fish.
"Despite all the amputation, you could dance to a rock 'n roll station..."
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Re: K&N splitter
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Member
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Guys, this is pretty straighforward high school physics. The splitter may (emphasis on MAY) accelerate the air flow, but it does that, if it does it at all, by reducing the diameter. Bernoulli's equations explain it. And the low rate of airflow involved surely can't be affected much by turbulent vs. laminar flow. At any rate, it can't increase the mass of air per unit time (which is what you need - MORE air, not faster air) without additional energy input (like a fan/supercharger/turbo). Hmmm - an electric fan... that might be cool...
Man, if I knew anything, I'd be rich and famous...
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Re: K&N splitter
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There's this thing my buddy put in his dirt bike from a co. called SCary Fast that is some kind of venturi.. you need to rejet the carb to lean it out more. here's the link: http://www.scaryfastracing.net/
"Got the wind in my face the road goes on for miles...."
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Re: K&N splitter
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Loquacious
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Quote:
Hmmm- an electric fan... that might be cool...
There is a device called an E-RAM that is an electric supercharger. There are 2 models, 1psi and 1.7psi boost. It's more like electric nitrous because it uses an extra battery and only lasts about a minute before needing recharging. Probably too heavy for bikes.
Steelheart- '03 Speedmaster Black/Yellow
The Hayabusa Killa
16" Shorties/140 mains/Airbox drilled
Procom CDI
"There is no cure for Celibacy. But we can treat the symptoms."
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Re: K&N splitter
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Greenhorn
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Greenhorn
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PowerNow/ScaryFast has been pushing the idea of the carb venturi for a few years now, and they still are convincing people that the device works.
I've used the product on my dirtbike, and jetted accordingly and have noticed absolutely no difference.
Power
Black 2007 Speedmaster
2007 Ducati Monster S2R
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Re: K&N splitter
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Complete Newb
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Complete Newb
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kileface, altho you sound smart in your note you are very
very wrong air speed or volocity dose make a differance(faster air often means more air when cylinder fill times are so fast) and
the spliter before the carb in the intake on SLIDE TYPE carbs increases the speed of the air at partly open throttle
pos by reducing the diameter of the opening basiclly giving you two intake sizes, a company called
power now makes them for two stroke dirt bikes and i have felt the change before and after the throttle was way more crisp now were not talking about shoving more air in to the
cylinder like turbos and superchargers, all an engine has to
go on with out those devices is atmosphric pressure so the
key word is efficincy get as much air as you can while you
can but you will never get more than 7.2 pounds or what ever
atmosphiric pressure is i cant remember. if you still dont
beleive me why are the intakes on f1 cars length and size
changed with the amount of throttle given same with the mv agusta motorcycle there changing volocity and volume where and when thay need and dont tell me that tubulance dose not
make a differnce or are all those guys porting and POLISHING
cylinder heads wasting there time
Last edited by bikefreak; 02/06/2007 10:38 PM.
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Re: K&N splitter
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Learned Hand
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Quote:
At any rate, it can't increase the mass of air per unit time (which is what you need - MORE air, not faster air) without additional energy input (like a fan/supercharger/turbo). Hmmm - an electric fan... that might be cool...
I agree. This device MAY increase velocity (by reducing turbulence), but adds nothing for volume (mass). The venturi gizmo is likely to reduce turbulence as well, but possible at the loss of already available volume. I can't see either working to any significant benefit without some 'push'. You need both velocity and mass to build a better mouse trap.
2004 Triumph Speedmaster (J Lo) 2006 Yamaha Stratoliner (Adele)
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Re: K&N splitter
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A guy named SnowBum gives a very good, semi-technical essay on his website about intake tuning, velocity, air flow, etc... You can find it here He's a BMW guy, but the principles are obviously the same. It is lenghty, but a good read nonetheless
'05 America - Tec 2-1 (from a Thruxton)/ 4 pot caliper/ Kurt's Rearsets /
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