 Header removal
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,485
Learned Hand
|
OP
Learned Hand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,485 |
How difficult is it to pull the headers? Looks like some of the bolts might be a bit hard to get at.
"Despite all the amputation, you could dance to a rock 'n roll station..."
|
|
|
Re: Header removal
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,611 Likes: 1
Loquacious
|
|
Loquacious
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,611 Likes: 1 |
I had to pull off the R/H header awhile ago - If I remember correctly -it wasn't bad. I think I used a swivel socket on head bolts. The one I had a problem with was underneath - think I lost a bushing on the bracket. Hardest part was getting the pipes apart.
Stewart
.......
"It's outside your field of expertise."
"Poppycock normally is."
|
|
|
Re: Header removal
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,537
Check Pants
|
|
Check Pants
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,537 |
Getting them off isn't a problem, reinstalling is a bit tricky solo. The crossover is a bit fussy, but with a 2nd pair of hands shouldn't be a problem.
Al
|
|
|
Re: Header removal
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 202
Adjunct
|
|
Adjunct
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 202 |
Header removal is on my project list this winter....my plan is to plug the crossover in order to deepen the exhaust note....
|
|
|
Re: Header removal
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,485
Learned Hand
|
|
OP
Learned Hand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,485 |
Interesting Michael. How does that work?
Last edited by blackdog; 11/22/2006 10:57 AM.
"Despite all the amputation, you could dance to a rock 'n roll station..."
|
|
|
Re: Header removal
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,546
Learned Hand
|
|
Learned Hand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,546 |
Quote:
Header removal is on my project list this winter....my plan is to plug the crossover in order to deepen the exhaust note....
What effect if any will this have on performance?
if life gives you lemons keep them because hey,free lemons.
|
|
|
Re: Header removal
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,204
Learned Hand
|
|
Learned Hand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,204 |
Kenny. The crossover smooths the exhuast wave. You won't notice much performance gain but it should "sound deeper"...Angelis
1200CC BIG BORE, W/WISECO PISTONS,.250 STROKED CRANK, PORTED/POLISHED HEADS AND LARGER VALVES, CUSTOM WELDED EXHUAST, DUAL 42MM MIKUNI CARBS.
|
|
|
Re: Header removal
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,485
Learned Hand
|
|
OP
Learned Hand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,485 |
"Despite all the amputation, you could dance to a rock 'n roll station..."
|
|
|
Re: Header removal
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 202
Adjunct
|
|
Adjunct
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 202 |
since I don't want to make a permanent alteration, I'll probably just take the pipes off and tap and tack weld a freeze plug into the crossover pipe and just put it back on. do you remember the difference in sound between the 650 twins and the 750's?....that difference was mainly due to the crossover in the exhaust headers. by connecting them with a crossover, the exhaust pitch is doubled.....or placed in a "less offensive" range....the same reason that v-8 automobiles usually had an "H" pipe.....
|
|
|
Re: Header removal
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,172
Saddle Sore
|
|
Saddle Sore
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,172 |
Remember to use new gaskets (crush style - 1 shot) at the head and RTV on the clamped joints. Especially the crossover. I just picked up 4 new gaskets today for my 03 TA. P/N is T2200229.
More flags
More fun!
|
|
|
Re: Header removal
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,308 Likes: 4
Worn Saddle
|
|
Worn Saddle
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,308 Likes: 4 |
Quote:
How would you block it?
I would think you could shove a dowel into the pipe to do that. It would have to fit reasonably snug though. Then again, I wouldn't worry too much about it since the resistance would then be so high all the exhaust would then go out the slipons.
A word to the wise is not necessary. It is the stupid ones who need the advice.
Pat
|
|
|
Re: Header removal
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,485
Learned Hand
|
|
OP
Learned Hand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,485 |
I was thinking of pulling the headers to polish out the bluing. Might add this mod to the process in attempt to deepen the 'bass' of the Specialty Spares. Sounds pretty do-able.
"Despite all the amputation, you could dance to a rock 'n roll station..."
|
|
|
Re: Header removal
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,877
Should be Riding
|
|
Should be Riding
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,877 |
I think this was discussed back in the old days, right? I seem to remember someone saying it was no bueno, but I forget why....
Benny
Black & Silver '02
Too many mods to list
Not enough miles ridden
|
|
|
Re: Header removal *DELETED*
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,172
Saddle Sore
|
|
Saddle Sore
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,172 |
More flags
More fun!
|
|
|
Re: Header removal
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 202
Adjunct
|
|
Adjunct
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 202 |
I seriously doubt that the dealer warning is really worth heading, but just in case, the tack welded freeze plug will be very easy to undo....
|
|
|
Re: Header removal *DELETED*
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,172
Saddle Sore
|
|
Saddle Sore
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,172 |
More flags
More fun!
|
|
|
Re: Header removal
|
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,025
Learned Hand
|
|
Learned Hand
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,025 |
06BA,-AI,NoBfls,K&NPods,TBS,155/45,2 3/4Out,SidGapPlgs,Wirsnbrs
NawImPrityFknFarFrmOkMan
|
|
|
Re: Header removal
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 138
Adjunct
|
|
Adjunct
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 138 |
there is a reason for the cross overs.
it helps the power in the low to mid range rpm's.
stock mufflers are so restrictive that to get any ponies out of the engines they need to connect the exhausts,its easier to exhale through two quiet mufflers than one.
the less restrictive the mufflers the less effect the cross over will have.
i havent looked into the header outlets to see what size our exhausts actually are but am pretty sure that they are about the same size as the straws on the bonnevilles.
the best thing is to get real headers that would actually help the engine breath easier.(on my to-do list.)
and i would still want the cross over because i dont run straight thru open pipes.
stv
GRAND MASTER WIZARD
|
|
|
Re: Header removal
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 202
Adjunct
|
|
Adjunct
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 202 |
Wive's tale......yes, there is a reason for the crossover, but that is not it....it's there to limit noise.......bite me?
|
|
|
Re: Header removal
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 222
Adjunct
|
|
Adjunct
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 222 |
michael, before you do this header mod, make sure you get a before/after sound clip, then post it here so we can hear the difference. I would think that plugging the crossover shouldn't lose any performance for your bike if you have straight thru pipes...there's probably little exhaust flow exchange between the headers, but the sound might improve.
Hope it works out for ya
'06 Speedmaster, Long TORS, rest is stock (for now)
|
|
|
Re: Header removal
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 31
Greenhorn
|
|
Greenhorn
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 31 |
Quote:
Header removal is on my project list this winter....my plan is to plug the crossover in order to deepen the exhaust note....
If you plug the crossover pipe you WILL loose Hp.The crossover pipe balances the exhaust from one bank to the other.
|
|
|
Re: Header removal
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 749
Adjunct
|
|
Adjunct
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 749 |
Quote:
How difficult is it to pull the headers? Looks like some of the bolts might be a bit hard to get at.
Doug,
I just changed out my headers today. You can use a long socket and small ratchet with no problems. To pull the old ones off and remount the new headers, it took about 40 min.
Gene
"It's a hundred and six miles to Chicago, we've got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses."
|
|
|
Re: Header removal
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 138
Adjunct
|
|
Adjunct
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 138 |
Quote:
Wive's tale......yes, there is a reason for the crossover, but that is not it....it's there to limit noise.......bite me?
the cross over has nothing to do with noise.
it's to help the engine breath.
talk to a mechanic.
a decent one.
GRAND MASTER WIZARD
|
|
|
Re: Header removal
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 202
Adjunct
|
|
Adjunct
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 202 |
trboam.....its function is to increase the pitch of the exhaust note by doubling the pulse in each pipe....it does very little to help the engine breath.....what it does is allow the engine's exhaust note and volume pass noise standards...as I said in an earlier post; listen to the difference between a 650 bonneville and a 750.....in the 750, the beautiful exhaust note is gone......this was entirely due to its exhaust crossover....there were many of us that got that note back by eliminating the crossover - with no loss of horsepower....and by the way, you're talking to a mechanic.....a decent one....
|
|
|
Re: Header removal
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,485
Learned Hand
|
|
OP
Learned Hand
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,485 |
That's good to hear Gene. Thanks.
"Despite all the amputation, you could dance to a rock 'n roll station..."
|
|
|
Re: Header removal
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 749
Adjunct
|
|
Adjunct
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 749 |
Couple of quick notes to make the job a little easier.
After you remove the old headers, put the left header on first. Put the header pipe in place then start the lower mounting screw in the nut before putting on the top two nuts onto the heads. After you start the lower screw then start the two top bolts on. Do not tighten them all the way. Then put the right header pipe in place and slip the center pipes together. I used a rubber mallet to tap the side of the headers and it makes sliding the center pipes together a lot easier. Just don’t hit it hard enough to damage the pipes. Again as the left side, start your lower mounting screw first, and then put your upper bolts in place. Once all bolts and mounting screws have been started, tighten them all down.
The above process took me about 40 min.
"It's a hundred and six miles to Chicago, we've got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses."
|
|
|
Re: Header removal *DELETED*
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,172
Saddle Sore
|
|
Saddle Sore
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,172 |
More flags
More fun!
|
|
|
Re: Header removal
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,308 Likes: 4
Worn Saddle
|
|
Worn Saddle
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,308 Likes: 4 |
I will add that the crossover is the last thing to tighten too! Be sure to tighten the two rubber mounted allens before the crossover. I find it easier to get the header bolts on loosely, then start the rubber lower ones, then tighten the header bolts, rubber mounts then crossover.. Oh, and if you pulled your foot controls, be sure to put them back on BEFORE you reinstall the headers. Or you have to pull the headers again....don't ask how I know that one. 
A word to the wise is not necessary. It is the stupid ones who need the advice.
Pat
|
|
|
Re: Header removal
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,337
Learned Hand
|
|
Learned Hand
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,337 |
The crossover, or H pipe, has to do with scavenging and pressure balance. You plug that, and you change the back pressure and scavenging of the exhaust. The difference in the 650 and 750 sound/pitch was due to how the the exhaust was dismissed. Smaller valves, smaller pistion, and a shorter stroke dictate the pitch, while the diameter and length of the pipes makes the tone. Remember, sound is just air pressure. You want a 650 sound? Choke down the diameter of the headers and run a set of TT pipes or take the pipes off and run open headers.
2002 Bandit 1200/ GSXR cams/ 1277 BB Kit/ Holeshot header and can/ 38mm flatslides/ a good head/lotsa hp/lotsa tq- lots of rear tires...
|
|
|
Re: Header removal *DELETED*
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,172
Saddle Sore
|
|
Saddle Sore
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,172 |
More flags
More fun!
|
|
|
Re: Header removal
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 202
Adjunct
|
|
Adjunct
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 202 |
Grump.....I was speaking of the difference between the 650cc and the 750cc.....same ignition sequence....removal of the crossover gave the 750 the deep tone of a 650
|
|
|
Re: Header removal
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 749
Adjunct
|
|
Adjunct
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 749 |
Quote:
Header removal is on my project list this winter....my plan is to plug the crossover in order to deepen the exhaust note....
There was someone on the old board who removed the crossover pipes. I finally remembered it was Ron aka “Buddy†on the old forum who did it. I went back in the archives and copied his comment after he did it. Here is what he had to say:
“Well I did it! I removed my pipes today and plugged my cross over pipe. I found no difference in power or torque, if anything it seems to have a little more torque on the low end. BUT!!! O the difference in the sound. The thing I did not like about the cross over was the exhaust smoothed out at anything over a fast idle. Now she barks like a big dog all the way through. To each their own, I love it and would never go back. Ronâ€Â
"It's a hundred and six miles to Chicago, we've got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses."
|
|
|
Re: Header removal
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,297
Oil Expert
|
|
Oil Expert
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,297 |
Quote:
Quote:
Now she barks like a big dog all the way through. To each their own, I love it and would never go back. Ronâ€Â
Great. Just what I need for that long ride back from the Nor'East! 
In Between the Dark and the Light..
|
|
|
|
|
