 i think i may have an idea as to whats causing it
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remember my post about finding my plugs sooty black and asking how it could run rich all of a sudden? Well, i did make the connection between the vibe problem but i wrote it off for various reaons. But today i looked at the used but not sooty plugs i put in after that fiasco and they are not only sooty, but even sootier. Now the entire plug including the formerly still while ceramic center is all black. Dry sooty black. so the bike is definatly running extrememly rich for no normal reason such as rejetting. This has got to be related to the vibe problem. For one thing it started right about the same time as far as i know. at least thats when i discovered it while looking for reasons for the vibes. the problem is, this is happening in BOTH cylinders so it can't be a problem like a loose jet or such unless it a million to one coincidence that both carbs had the same problem. And it's not the filter. It's a UNI and i cleaned it last week. this seems to leave me with either something like something clogging the airbox, which is unlikely because i felt in there and theres nothing i could feel. And after the 2 restictor plate holes it would have to be something huge like a cloth in there resricting both carb mouths. Then theres the engine internal......valves and whatever else. I don't know how anything in the engine could cause it. But if anyone has suggestions i'd sure love to hear them ! This has just got to be related. By the way, i removed all the EVLS hoses and capped the nipples and that didn't stop it, so it's not the emissions crape. Anything you can think of please speak up.......the rope is attached to the ceiling, the ottoman is in place, and all i have left to do is figure out how to tie a noose. 
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Re: i think i may have an idea as to whats causing it
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Daz,
I am probably wrong.
I assure you I am not smoking a doobie.
Have had a few Coronas though.
When I had my stuttering problem it only occured around 2500-2800 rpm in 4th gear.
Both plugs were sooty.
It turned out to be my coils.
I am not saying this is your problem.
I guess I will have another Hav a Tampa Cigar & a couple more Coronas.
Last edited by dowop; 09/29/2006 9:19 PM.
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Re: i think i may have an idea as to whats causing it
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2004 Triumph Speedmaster (J Lo) 2006 Yamaha Stratoliner (Adele)
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Re: i think i may have an idea as to whats causing
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Learned Hand
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Quote:
Daz,
I am probably wrong.
I assure you I am not smoking a doobie.
Have had a few Coronas though.
When I had my stuttering problem it only occured around 2500-2800 rpm in 4th gear.
Both plugs were sooty.
It turned out to be my coils.
I am not saying this is your problem.
I guess I will have another Hav a Tampa Cigar & a couple more Coronas.
That sounds like a possibility. After all, if it were so rich it was that sooty whay would it run good. I'll check the resistance tomorrow. How much were the coils? If they're more than nologys as i've heard they are, i may get those if thats the problem. Hmmm...side gapped plugs AND nology coils.......150 HP?
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Re: i think i may have an idea as to whats causing
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The stock coils are almost twice as much as the Nology.
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Re: i think i may have an idea as to whats causing
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Well dowop, i think you nailed it ! I checked the coils and the secondary on both is completly open. Unless theres something i'm missing,as per the haynes manual i checked resistance between the + terminal and the spark plug connection and tried all ohm settings and theres absolutly nothing. What i don't get, and someone please explain this to me, is how the bike ran as always (except for the sooty plugs and vibration) with no secondary. The wires read fine as does the primary. Problem is, i'll have to buy nology coils because the dealers i called will replace them under warranty, but i'd have to leave the bike for a week or 2 and i have no way to get back and then to the dealer to pick it up. And they won't let me just bring the coils in and give me a replacment. Not fun. Anyways, thats got to be the source of the vibration.
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Re: i think i may have an idea as to whats causing
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Alright Dale.... I've been following your posts for the last few days about your vibration and trying to track it down. I have got the exact same thing going on, you decscribed pretty much to the letter. Seems like it is only in second gear and between 15 and 25 mph. The "vrrrrrump vrrrrrump vrrrrrrump" vibration is felt right through the footpegs. Here's the strange part... I JUST had new tires installed. Pretty much picked the bike up from the dealer and immediately hit the highway for the NE Rally. I thought I noticed something a couple of times when hitting toll booths but wasn't sure. After riding slower in New York I definately noticed something.... then 700 miles back home and now that I've ridden to work a few times in city traffic that vibration thing is MOST definitely noticed and like you is really bugging me, I'm not suicidal yet but if it keeps up with no cure to be found I prolly will be.
Bike is running great otherwise and seems really odd that it would be the coils but hey, if that is what it turns out to be then looks like Brent is getting an order. My bike is JUST out of warranty so haven't really entertained the idea of them doing anything about it. Can't find my plug socket anywhere so heading to Sears for a new one then will pull the plugs and see if I got the same thing going on..... tell me what you find out and I'll do the same.
Steve
P.S. I too thought the front wheel immediately but I've had it up on the jack and looking at it with the utmost scrutiny and it looks perfectly fine to me...
Steve
(hewhoshallremainavatarless)
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Re: i think i may have an idea as to whats causing
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Quote:
Here's the strange part... I JUST had new tires installed.
If you have the same problem with the coils, that would be one hellofa strange coincidence having it happen after a tire swap !!! Then again, maybe my coil problem is simply coincidental and the vibes are not going to be cured by this. I gotta think it is, but after your post it would be too big a coincidence having both had our coils go out after a tire swap ! theres just no connection imaginable between tire swap and coils going out. What kind of tires did you get by the way? Let me know what you find with the plugs. By the way, i found a dealer just now that will check my coils right there and give me a new set on the spot w/o a appointment or leaving my bike. They stock the coils regularly too unlike the others i've called. But they're out and won't have more till wednesday. So i guess it'll have to wait till next weekend. I'd like to get the nologys, but i'd rather spend $0 than $150.
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Re: i think i may have an idea as to whats causing
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Dale,
Just had a set of Maxxis whitewalls put on. Like I said, I've been checking that tire/rim out, spinning it round and round and measuring and can't find anything out of whack. It's the wierdest thing, only at slow speed, and when braking from a higher speed I feel it pulsing in the brake lever when I get under 25.... but only in second, not third. A big WTF!?!? Tire? Transmission? Rotor?, arrrrgh!
Wife came home before I got to Sears with a couple of chores so will have to pick up the socket later. By the way I'm supposed to hook up with some of the boys from here tommorrow for a ride so will let them check it out and see what they think.
Steve
(patiently awaiting the coil diagnosis)
Steve
(hewhoshallremainavatarless)
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Re: i think i may have an idea as to whats causing
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Check your rear pads if you haven't rplaced them recently. I got a pulsing in the rear brake and it was the pads being down to the metal. Luckily it didn't groove them so bad i needed a new disc. But the bike was only at 6k miles, and i heard one person say thiers were gone at 3k. So check them if you're unsure before you ride again.
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Re: i think i may have an idea as to whats causing
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Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
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Quote:
If you have the same problem with the coils, that would be one hellofa strange coincidence having it happen after a tire swap !!!
Maybe the mechanics forgot step one of every job, disconnect the battery!
Guys, if the problem you are seeing is directly related to speed or a specific gear, I highly doubt it is related to the motor. MAYBE the tranny, but more than likely the running gear. Tires, axles, something along those lines. If it was the motor, it would happen in every gear.
Benny
Black & Silver '02
Too many mods to list
Not enough miles ridden
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Re: i think i may have an idea as to whats causing
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Not necassarily. Just like the lean condition vibration thats been mentioned which happens only at certain points, a resonance may be setup right where it's happening. Instead of a mixture problem tho, this is a spark problem. I'm not saying it's definatly the coils causing the vibe at all, but it's awful suspicious that they seemed to happen about the same time. And considering the bike runs as good as always you'd thing with open secondarys there would have to be some sort of symptom, right? Well, the only symptom in how the bike runs right now is the vibration. Hopefully i'll know next weekend.
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Re: i think i may have an idea as to whats causing
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Quote:
remember my post about finding my plugs sooty black and asking how it could run rich all of a sudden? Well, i did make the connection between the vibe problem but i wrote it off for various reaons. But today i looked at the used but not sooty plugs i put in after that fiasco and they are not only sooty, but even sootier. Now the entire plug including the formerly still while ceramic center is all black. Dry sooty black. so the bike is definatly running extrememly rich for no normal reason such as rejetting. This has got to be related to the vibe problem. For one thing it started right about the same time as far as i know. at least thats when i discovered it while looking for reasons for the vibes.
the problem is, this is happening in BOTH cylinders so it can't be a problem like a loose jet or such unless it a million to one coincidence that both carbs had the same problem. And it's not the filter. It's a UNI and i cleaned it last week. this seems to leave me with either something like something clogging the airbox, which is unlikely because i felt in there and theres nothing i could feel. And after the 2 restictor plate holes it would have to be something huge like a cloth in there resricting both carb mouths. Then theres the engine internal......valves and whatever else. I don't know how anything in the engine could cause it. But if anyone has suggestions i'd sure love to hear them ! This has just got to be related. By the way, i removed all the EVLS hoses and capped the nipples and that didn't stop it, so it's not the emissions crape. Anything you can think of please speak up.......the rope is attached to the ceiling, the ottoman is in place, and all i have left to do is figure out how to tie a noose.
You might want to invest in a MSD ignition system if you continue to run side gapped plugs. The coil on our bikes were not designed to provide a bigger spark(Hey..its a Triumph). Side gapping is fine..at a 1/4 mile at a time. Its an old drag racers trick. But idling around town with side gapped plugs or over gapped plugs may result in premature valve wear and failed coils. With the MSD system you can gap the plugs to.060 or side gap them with no problem. The MSD resides between the coils and plugs.
I've replaced a few coils before. All the riders stated they got the side gap idea from this web page.
Put in a set of regular plugs and see if the problem goes away. The coil may be damaged but not to the point of providing the recommended spark. Good luck
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Re: i think i may have an idea as to whats causing
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From everything i read it's not that it makes a bigger spark, it just re-directs it. Even the gap remains the same as stock so it should be no harder for the ignition to jump the gap, so the ignition should be seeing the same load AFAIK. But i will try the new ones as stock. But with the secondary open they have to be replaced anyways unless i'm missing something here. There are a lot of coil problems with many new triumphs so i'm sure they're toast. Tho i have no idea why the bike runs great aside from those vibes. The coils apparently aren't very reliable and are one of those triumph bugs like cush drives and a number of other parts that seem to fail in large numbers from reading the forums. I never heard of MSD, only nology. Are the nologys basically the same thing or is there some benfit to the MSD coils, and do they fit our bikes?
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Re: i think i may have an idea as to whats causing
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Big Bore
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Big Bore
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Quote:
per the haynes manual i checked resistance between the + terminal and the spark plug connection
I just read that too and you may have found an error in the manual. Checking those two points should be wide open! All coils are basically transformers and the primary and secondary windings have to be isolated from on another.
You know how I love pictures and disregard the firing circuit in the one below (points, ugh), but notice that the primary and secondary are completely isolated from each other. As far as I know, the only way to measure the primary side of the coil's resistance is by ohming between the + and - terminals and the only way to measure the secondary portion is between the high tension output and ground. Anyone can please correct me if I am wrong. Already happened last week!
"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity" - Robert Heinlein
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Re: i think i may have an idea as to whats causing
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I thought about that because i work with audio gear and i knew that. But not knowing anything about ignition coils i just figured the manual had to be right. But if thats the case, what else in the ignition could be causing the sooty plugs? Any idea? It just can't be a fuel thing because it's both cylinders which rules out a carb problem, and add to that the fact the bike runs fine and the airway isn't blocked before the carbs and i don;'t see how it could be fuel. This is getting more and more confusing ! Anyways, i'll try the HT/graound check and let you know what i find in a few. I hope you're right, but then that means i'm lost again ! Thanks.
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Re: i think i may have an idea as to whats causing
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Do you ever just get to ride the thing? Really, Man...What gives? 
Q.
Can't get the Fig Newton song out of my head.
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Re: i think i may have an idea as to whats causing
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I rode it for over a year straight since new. Now it has a problem, so no. Make sense?
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Re: i think i may have an idea as to whats causing
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Oil Expert
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Oil Expert
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Phil's right.. a coil is a step-up transformer and the primary & secondary should be completely seperate. They have a bath of oil inside them that keeps the whole thing cool and this can degrade over time (more heat = faster degradation = more heat, vicious circle) which can cause part of it to melt which stops the thing working completely. You can also have parts of the coil short together, effectivley reducing the number of "loops" inside the coil, which reduces the maximum output.
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Re: i think i may have an idea as to whats causing
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Big Bore
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Big Bore
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"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity" - Robert Heinlein
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Re: i think i may have an idea as to whats causing
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I am. I put them in yesterday. What i'm thinking is all this low speed testing with the screws at 3 and 1/2 to 4, maybe the screws are too rich. I've always run them like that but i normally don't run around on the low speed circuit constantly like i have been in the last month of much 2nd gear testing with the throttle barely open. So i turned the screws down to 2 and 1/2 and new stock plugs and i'm just gonna ride till i have some miles and see what the plugs look like. Somehow it does seem to be rich even tho i've had the same setup for almost a year. I don't know if it has to do what i just mentioned or if somehow it changed. You might have seen my thread asking about summer vs winter fuel. maybe even that could be it. The jetting may have been finalized with one of them and the richness happened when the fuel changed from whatever was being used when i finalized the jetting. You never know. Wierd little things like that happen and they're such obscure reasons you'd never think of it. But i've been trying to troubleshoot this and the vibes so long now i'm at the point where i'm coming up with ideas i normally wouldn't. I'm just gonna ride and see what happens with the plugs and see if this vibe thing works itself out.
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Re: i think i may have an idea as to whats causing
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I finally eliminated the tires wheel and drive train. It's definatly in the engine or tranny. If i'm at a stop in neutural and i very slowly bring the revs up, at 2.2k it hits an area where theres a vibration and as the revs keep climbing it goes away right after that. So i guess i'm screwed.
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Re: i think i may have an idea as to whats causing
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Big Bore
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Big Bore
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Quote:
I'm just gonna ride
Not a bad idea!
"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity" - Robert Heinlein
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Re: i think i may have an idea as to whats causing
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Yeah, well if i can't find it i may as well see if it works itself out. But i gotta tell you, i really can't enjoy myself. What i'd like to hear, tho i've started so many threads i'm afraid to start another one, is what things people here can come up with as possibilities as to what could cause this now that i'm pretty sure it's the engine. I'm considering ordering some nologys tomorrow in hopes that helps somehow if it is something ignition-wise. Plus i would like to see what they do.
Here's a thought i had tho, and maybe someone can speak to it.....since the vibe happens at about 2.2k rpm's with the throttle held static while the revs slowly rise, the only thing that i can think of besides timing that changes (if it even does in that range) is the slides rising. So as it hits that point where it begins, maybe theres something going on there like a leaky diaphram or something. The only other thought is the ignition but as little as i've done (just checking coils) i don't see what else i can do aside from swapping very expensive parts and as i said the nologys. At least thats an upgrade if it doesn't cure anything, so i won't feel like i wasted the bucks.
So anyone have any idea why it would hit 2.2k rpm's while slowing allowing the revs to rise in neutural and pass thru a short range of vibration right there?
Last edited by dazco; 10/01/2006 10:03 PM.
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Re: i think i may have an idea as to whats causing
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Quote:
Yeah, well if i can't find it i may as well see if it works itself out. But i gotta tell you, i really can't enjoy myself. What i'd like to hear, tho i've started so many threads i'm afraid to start another one, is what things people here can come up with as possibilities as to what could cause this now that i'm pretty sure it's the engine. I'm considering ordering some nologys tomorrow in hopes that helps somehow if it is something ignition-wise. Plus i would like to see what they do.
Here's a thought i had tho, and maybe someone can speak to it.....since the vibe happens at about 2.2k rpm's with the throttle held static while the revs slowly rise, the only thing that i can think of besides timing that changes (if it even does in that range) is the slides rising. So as it hits that point where it begins, maybe theres something going on there like a leaky diaphram or something. The only other thought is the ignition but as little as i've done (just checking coils) i don't see what else i can do aside from swapping very expensive parts and as i said the nologys. At least thats an upgrade if it doesn't cure anything, so i won't feel like i wasted the bucks.
So anyone have any idea why it would hit 2.2k rpm's while slowing allowing the revs to rise in neutural and pass thru a short range of vibration right there?
Daz...stop the threads. I can't take this anymore. Please PM me. Its time for someone else besides you to look at your bike. Things have nose dived for you and I am willing to spend a day, with you, to dive into this mess. Think of it as getting a 2nd doctor's opinion. Asking for opinions over the internet is like asking for opinions over the phone. I don't want you spending $$ by guessing. I have disassembled my bike twice to the frame. Look at my photos. Big bore kits and Freaks are common. I live in Torrance. Doug 
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Re: i think i may have an idea as to whats causing
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So let me if I have this straight:
1. Only happens in 2nd
2. Only happens at 2.2k
3. Only a short range of vibration
How about driving right through it and get on with riding!! It's a friggin motorcycle...
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Re: i think i may have an idea as to whats causing
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Learned Hand
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Why don't you consider contributing instead of insulting? Grow up or read other threads. Seriously, i have a problem with my bike and when i try and get some help this is what i get? Do a search with my username and you won't find a single post where i abuse anyone. Unlike you i don't have a kindergarten mentality, which of course will have you running back to this thread to with further childish insults.
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Re: i think i may have an idea as to whats causing
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Bar Shake
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Bar Shake
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If you can find someone with a scope, you can see your ignition system in action and know exactly how it's performing. That way you can either know where it is, or at least where it isn't so you can check other systems. Any older auto mech shop should be able to scope it.
Contra todo mal, mezcal; contra todo bien, también
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Re: i think i may have an idea as to whats causing
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Old Hand
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Quote:
Well dowop, i think you nailed it ! I checked the coils and the secondary on both is completly open. Unless theres something i'm missing,as per the haynes manual i checked resistance between the + terminal and the spark plug connection and tried all ohm settings and theres absolutly nothing. What i don't get, and someone please explain this to me, is how the bike ran as always (except for the sooty plugs and vibration) with no secondary. The wires read fine as does the primary. Problem is, i'll have to buy nology coils because the dealers i called will replace them under warranty, but i'd have to leave the bike for a week or 2 and i have no way to get back and then to the dealer to pick it up. And they won't let me just bring the coils in and give me a replacment. Not fun. Anyways, thats got to be the source of the vibration.
Why not have the dealer order the parts, set up a time to install them, then call you when they are ready to go? Shouldn't take 2 hours to swap the coils, much less 2 weeks!
The reason it still runs is that there is enough voltage generated to arc over the break in the winding. You aren't getting enough spark to light off the fuel properly because the secondary circuit is sparking at both ends.
Let's hope there's intelligent life somewhere in space 'cause it's buggar all down here. -- Monte Python
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Re: i think i may have an idea as to whats causing
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Big Bore
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Big Bore
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GB, he was measuring between the primary winding and the secondary. It's supposed to be wide open.
"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity" - Robert Heinlein
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Re: i think i may have an idea as to whats causing
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Quote:
Why don't you consider contributing instead of insulting? Grow up or read other threads. Seriously, i have a problem with my bike and when i try and get some help this is what i get? Do a search with my username and you won't find a single post where i abuse anyone. Unlike you i don't have a kindergarten mentality, which of course will have you running back to this thread to with further childish insults.
Simmer down Daz, he was just bustin your nads.
Learning from my mistakes... again and again.
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Re: i think i may have an idea as to whats causing
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No, sorry but thats not friendly ribbing. I'm not that young and naive to not know that. Funny how every time someone insults me and i come back at them I'M the one who get the reprimand. PC out of control.
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Re: i think i may have an idea as to whats causing
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Not insulting, just an observation and suggestion.
However, here something constructive:
There's nothing wrong with your bike.
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Re: i think i may have an idea as to whats causing
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Daz, I know you want your bike fixed so you can enjoy some riding time. Purchase the coils from brent and install new plugs with the factory gap(forget side gapping); heck call Brent and see if he will work out a deal for the whole package--nology coils,nology wires and spark plugs. I think your bike will run fine after the upgrade.......Angelis
1200CC BIG BORE, W/WISECO PISTONS,.250 STROKED CRANK, PORTED/POLISHED HEADS AND LARGER VALVES, CUSTOM WELDED EXHUAST, DUAL 42MM MIKUNI CARBS.
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Re: i think i may have an idea as to whats causing
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Way ahead of ya Angelis. I just did today, tho i didn't get them from Brent. Sorry Brent.......i would have but i had to have them this weekend in hopes of avoiding yet another weekend of troubleshooting, and this place said they'd ship today and i'd have them easily by the weekend since they're in san diego. Anyways, i got the coils and wires. Fingers crossed ! (better be good.....$250 !) If it fixes the problem i'll be ok with it even if there is no performance increase. I'm fairly confident it will because i've done a lot of searching and there are a lot of people who's coils have gone bad, many not to the point of keeping the bike from running. And i can't think of what else it could be. It's a shame triumph builds such nice bikes then equips them with several problematic, weak parts. I don't think it would cost them a lot more to install good coils, cush rives, brake pads, spokes, and several other things i always read about or experienced. Add another couple/three hundred to the list and i'm sure thier sales wouldn't suffer, and thier rep among owners would be nearly spotless compared to how it is currently. I'd certainly be happy to pay a bit more for a bulletproof bike.
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Re: i think i may have an idea as to whats causing
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Dale,
I had posted that I have the same thing going on and still do. I haven't tracked it down yet myself other than spending a few hours going over the wheel/tire thing. I feel for you because I know exactly what you are talking about plus a pretty good idea how you feel. For the rest of you, to hear it from somebody else besides Dale..... this vibration that just started is nothing I'm sure any of you would take lightly. It's annoying practically to the point of distraction. Wait, not practically, it IS. I almost rear-ended somebody coming home today because I was trying to reach down and feel the primary cover along with other parts when the vibration was at it's strongest. It's not something that is supposed to be there.... put almost 10,000 miles on the bike without any real probs at all, but now I'm not sure I wanna ride it anymore till I find out just what the **** the problem is. If it was to turn out that it is just now part of the bike as in a quirk that could not be remedied, well then I'm getting rid of it (the bike).
Hang in there Dale and I await your findings with the new coils..... still in disbelief that this would do it but won't hesitate for a moment to get new ones if it solves the prob.
Steve
Steve
(hewhoshallremainavatarless)
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Re: i think i may have an idea as to whats causing
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Thanks. I guess you had to be there as they say, eh?  I will certainly let you know what happens with the coils and wires. Like you i may be selling it if i can find the problem, tho i'll keep the coils for my next speedmaster which will be another identical one, not an '07. Hate to do it, but like you i find it extremely bothersome and worrying. I really don't enjoy riding it like this, so w/o a fix theres no other option as far as i'm concerned. Problem is, who's gonna want to buy it? But i know what you mean when you doubt it....it's certainly not a problem that feels like it would be engine related. In fact, i was certain it had to be the chain because it feels exactly like a chain that is so stretched that the varience between the tight and loose spots is huge. So much so that the first thing i did was to order a chain and sprocket and i was dead sure that was it. What a suprise when i found it wasn't. Little did i know what i was about to go thru. Anyways, if it works i may or may not post about it. But if i don't i'll certainly PM you.
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Re: i think i may have an idea as to whats causing
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Hope you get your bike fixed soon. You really do need to post the results though, it's just good form after starting this thread. Good luck.
Not you fat Jesus!
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Re: i think i may have an idea as to whats causing
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I am probably way off, but in regards to the sooty plugs, you said you just cleaned your uni filter. Could it have too much oil on it, blocking airflow and making a rich condition? Just a thought.
jeff
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Re: i think i may have an idea as to whats causing
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Big Bore
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Hey Steve/Dale, I want to try to recreate this problem on my bike and see if this is an issue that I am ignoring (wouldn't be the first time! ). What do I need to do to recreate this?
"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity" - Robert Heinlein
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Re: i think i may have an idea as to whats causing
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take off and in 2nd go to about 15 then let off the throttle and decellerate. from that point to 15 MPH you should (if you had this problem) feel a jerking like vibratiion thru the footpegs that CANNOT be mistaken. In other words, if you THINK you feel something, you ain't feeling it !
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Re: i think i may have an idea as to whats causing
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Big Bore
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"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity" - Robert Heinlein
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Re: i think i may have an idea as to whats causing
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Phil,
Ya gotta believe me when I tell ya, this is not something you can recreate unless you find the source of the problem. As Dale says, there is no mistaking it.... it's there or it isn't and I can tell ya it's not supposed to be there. Mine has gotten to the point that it does it now just sitting at a stoplight idling. Feels like you are driving over rumble strips. I was still thinking it just HAD to be something with the wheels since it wasn't happening before the new tires and especially since Dale said he had new tires installed as well. I even made an appointment to take it back and have the wheels/tires checked out... sitting at idle at a light this morning and feeling it, well cancelled the appointment as there is no way it's coming from the wheels.... it's IN the engine somewhere, somehow. Gonna have to take it out to the Triumph dealer now and see what they have to say.
Pulled the plugs today, not the picture of perfection, a little bit black but not awful. B!tch of it is that I am one month out of warranty so I wanna see what the results are with Dale's new coils before I just had the bike over to the dealer and have to start throwing down for diagnostics and "maybe" fixes.
Steve
Steve
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Re: i think i may have an idea as to whats causing
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Quote:
Mine has gotten to the point that it does it now just sitting at a stoplight idling
really ! Is it cyclic even at a standstill? Mine doesn't do that, tho given time who knows. One thing i noticed thats VERY wierd. I can go down a hill so i can coast at a steady speed, the speed range the vibes happen at when the engine is engaged. Then either pull the clutch or put it in neutural and rev the engine and hold it at a steady 2k RPM's or so WHILE in neutural, i get the same cyclic vibration ! And this is with the engine disengaged. But the really wierd part is that if i do the same thing at over 25, it doesn't happen ! tell me that ain't bizarre ! The only thing i can figure is somehow at the rpm and speed the engine's cyclic vibe is there and tires/wheels are interacting harmonically when things line up just right to create it. Sounds freakin wierd but it does it none the less and i can't figure out any other way to explain it. I have my fingers crossed on the coils because if that doesn't fix it i'll check the carb slides, the only other thing i can think of and easily check, and if after those things it still does it i think i'm gonna list the bike.
by the way, it just cannot be the wheels, of that i'm becoming very sure. I think they may play a part in it as i said before, possible creating a harmonic along with whatever the motor problem is. And something extremely odd like that would obviously make troubleshooting it very very tough. Today i added weights at a couple different places on both front and back wheels to change the balance and nothing changed even slightly.
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Re: i think i may have an idea as to whats causing
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Quote:
really ! Is it cyclic even at a standstill?
Yup.... if your new coils solve the prob then I'm sending you a bottle of your favorite spirits as a big thank you. I'm hoping they do but I gotta tell ya, as of right now my money is on something in the clutch/transmission.
For the rest of you that may be following along on all this, bear with me/us, nobody wants something else to obsess over more than me.
Steve
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Re: i think i may have an idea as to whats causing
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If it does work it's still not time to send the beer. Could be 2 different problems here that both manifest the same symptom. The reason i ask that is mine isn't doing anything abnormal at a stoplight. So i'd hate to see you buy new coils only to find it worked for me but not you.
The clutch or tranny just seems so unlikely. Not because they wouldn't cause this sort of symptom. In fact they probably would more likely than most anything. But with 9k miles on a bike thats been treated very well with new oil more often than it needs, and the best oil at that, it just doesn't seem theres any reason for that. Sure, it could be a defective part i spose. Just doesn't seem likely.
Last edited by dazco; 10/03/2006 11:38 PM.
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Re: i think i may have an idea as to whats causing
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Should be Riding
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Anyone checked their clutch?
Benny
Black & Silver '02
Too many mods to list
Not enough miles ridden
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Re: i think i may have an idea as to whats causing
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Not really. Just the adjustment. This would be one of the last things i'd do because i'd have to dump the oil and remove a side cover. So if all else fails, maybe. I think that the fact i can recreate it with clutch in or out probably eliminates it as a suspect tho.
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Re: i think i may have an idea as to whats causing
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Should be Riding
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OK yous guys, ensure that your crankcase vent is unobstructed too. If I recall from the Nor'East rally, Steve's ride has a jingle sound while at idle. I bet if you guys pull your left engine cover you will see something amiss. The early clutches had an issue with vibration and such. A factory fix has been conjured up and Pat can speak to the details of why the older clutchs are somewhat out of touch with fluid dynamics. Another member had to replace his oil pump gears. Have a look see at those gear's teeth too. (while you have the left cover off). Dazco, Pay no attention to that sparkplug behind the curtain! He is an old spark! hahahhahahahah Hey newt? Can you dig it brother?
Blowing gravel off rural roads
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Re: i think i may have an idea as to whats causing
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Should be Riding
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Quote:
Not really. Just the adjustment. This would be one of the last things i'd do because i'd have to dump the oil and remove a side cover. So if all else fails, maybe. I think that the fact i can recreate it with clutch in or out probably eliminates it as a suspect tho.
Grasslopper, having your clutch engaged or disengaged. The basket still spins...Just a thought.
Blowing gravel off rural roads
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Re: i think i may have an idea as to whats causing
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I may be wrong, but i've read about that and i thought the clutch issues were remedied before 05' which is what mine is. Steve's is older tho i think.....seems like he said it's an 03 at some point.
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Re: i think i may have an idea as to whats causing
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Should be Riding
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Should be Riding
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I thought of the clutch because someone said theirs changed with the clutch in. It may still happen, but the act that it changes with clutch engagement would point me in that direction. With the time you've spent on this so far, what's a half hour of oil-drain time?
Benny
Black & Silver '02
Too many mods to list
Not enough miles ridden
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Re: i think i may have an idea as to whats causing
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Daz, Jefferson may have a point there. I wasn't aware that that you had an aftermarket air cleaner(K&N or UNI'S). If you do then clean it and LIGHTLY!!!!!!! oil it then see if you plugs are fouling.........Angelis
1200CC BIG BORE, W/WISECO PISTONS,.250 STROKED CRANK, PORTED/POLISHED HEADS AND LARGER VALVES, CUSTOM WELDED EXHUAST, DUAL 42MM MIKUNI CARBS.
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Re: i think i may have an idea as to whats causing
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No, the filter is clean. I cleaned it after that happened and i oil it VERY lightly and always have. And i've been doing it that way since i got it.
Benny...i may have said that when i first started posting. But if you read all my posts in both (maybe 3?) threads you'll see i have updated what i've said on a few things as i've investigated deeper. I've since found, and i think i mentioned it in this thread just withing a day or 3, that i can recreate it in a number of ways with clutch out, clutch in, or even in neutural. I posted this in this thread just yesterday....
"One thing i noticed thats VERY wierd. I can go down a hill so i can coast at a steady speed, the speed range the vibes happen at when the engine is engaged. Then either pull the clutch or put it in neutural and rev the engine and hold it at a steady 2k RPM's or so WHILE in neutural, i get the same cyclic vibration ! And this is with the engine disengaged. But the really wierd part is that if i do the same thing at over 25, it doesn't happen ! tell me that ain't bizarre ! The only thing i can figure is somehow at the rpm and speed the engine's cyclic vibe is there and tires/wheels are interacting harmonically when things line up just right to create it. Sounds freakin wierd but it does it none the less and i can't figure out any other way to explain it."
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Re: i think i may have an idea as to whats causing
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by the way, the coils and wires are due tomorrow so hopefully i'll be posting some good news. The way things are going tho i have no delusions that i'll be doing so for sure.
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Re: i think i may have an idea as to whats causing
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Should be Riding
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Oh I'll happily admit to not reading every single post I'm just saying that as long as the motor is running, part of the clutch is spinning...
Benny
Black & Silver '02
Too many mods to list
Not enough miles ridden
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Re: i think i may have an idea as to whats causing
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Nologys and wires in, no change.
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Re: i think i may have an idea as to whats causing
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I think i may have figured out why it's rich. I pretty much finalized the jetting last winter, having bought the bike that summer. I jetted it by going larger till it was too rich then backing down a size. So it was on the edge of being rich. The plugs always looked good but It wasn't till this heat wave that i noticed the plugs getting sooty. My theory is based on what i've been told here before, which nis that in cold wether your bike runs leaner, hot, richer. So it would make sense that the very hot weather we've had put it over the edge and made it too rich. Coulda sworn i had 1 shim on the TBS needles, but i just went to check the slides and remove the shim and realized i had 2 shims. So i removed them all. The bike seems to run about the same,so i'll leave it there and see how it does. I think it'll be fine because the midrange is where i do most of my riding and thats where it was jetted very rich.
as to the vibes, i have yet to really give the front end a good going over. And as i said before i had a problem getting out one of the axl clamp bolts and had to really bang on the fork with an ez out. So i'll take the front end completely apart tomorrow and inspect the bearings and everything then put it back together. Could be the forks just have to be reset. The fact that i can recreate the cyclic vibration while coasting and then holding the revs at about 2 k, but it won't do it coasting at any speed higher than about 25 tells me it could well be a harmonic between the wheel and the engine at 2k RPMs. Or the rear, tho i've removed and checked that so many times i doubt it.
Last edited by dazco; 10/06/2006 8:26 PM.
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