Bonneville America Forums Forums Off Topic Discussion Forums Lounge Harley-Davidson York,Pa plant shut down

The union voted to strike starting tomorrow, so they shut the plant down.

Harley shuts down.

So if you want to buy a Softail or Touring model, better get it now.

Thats crazyness. This line from the article is intersting....

Quote:

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two-tier wage system under which new hires would be paid less than current ones.

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All they are doing is driving up costs for the rest of us...

York is a small town, thats not a good thing for them.

Called their bluff. I hope the big automakers are paying attention.

This is convenient for the Motor Co. considering that the supply of HD's has now exceeded the demand.

But bad for York, as noted. I predict this strike will not last long. It's mostly posturing. Everyone involved has too much at stake.

I'll never understand the mindset of union workers. I'm glad I'm in Texas. I had a friend in MI once tell me that she couldn't shop at the grocery store near her house because it was "non-union". I don't exactly know what that means, but it sounds pretty rediculous.

Well having spent 14 years in a labor union. I do to some degree understand the "mind set". Alot of people would say that the unions have out lived there usefulness. But in some cases it's a the only way to get a fair shake from a greeedy employer. Before you come down too hard on the union
take a look at CEO pay and share holder profits. It's the guys in the trenches that made them rich.

On the otehr hand unions do protect dead beats and slackers.
And can be pretty unreasonable about crap like hey I cant sweep the floor thats a maintanence job.And it's been my experience that the union leadership is more concerned about
keeping there own cushy jobs and looking after their buddys than anything else (kinda like congressmen).Got a long story to tell about that but I'd need a couple beers first.

But thinking back to my union days, most of the stewards where I was were "rough tough harely boys". Who swore they would not ride their bikes if the unions at HD ever struck.
Would be interesting to see if they keep their words and boycot.

Unions are worthless. If these schmoes want to run a company, then go out and start your own company and make the decisions yourself. Otherwise, you are an employee, just do your job.

Another one with no clue of American history has spoken.

i dont know i agree with HeneryHawk. I see the point with unions in the past. but in this day and age if you can do a better job and can make better things when not start your own company?

And you feel that without the unions (even as corrupt as they have become) there would be not regression to the "good old days"?

Motorola has been union free since it's inception. Seems to have worked for everyone I know that works there.

The place I wokr is none union, and I am quiet happy there.
But I still feel that without some organizied labor that we'd slowy see a return to some pretty crappy conditions.

I have to agree with you there jack



but we should stop now before it becomes political.
before you know other topics like "right to work" and
immigration will come up and I will have to voice my
opinion , then it will get ugly .

and I don't want that.

I dont think that would happen. But dont get me wrong I do agree with the idea of a union but they have become to powerful. I mean where else can you make $40 an hour for working on a assembly line?

Further more i think that one reason that the company i work for treats us as well as they do, it the threat of bringing a union in and f.....g the whole place up.

Dont get me wrong I feel that most labor unions as they exist today are a mess. But to come out and say they are worthless is just plain ignorant.

um show me somone who makes 40 an hour on an assembly line please.

the 40$ thing was a random number i didnt really feel like doing the research but im sure you get the idea.

The assembly line base pay at Ford, GM and Honda is $30 an hour on average. With overtime in a good year it works out to $40 an hour or more. There has been a lot of overtime in recent years as the companies can avoid costly new hires that way.

Many speculate that Honda matches UAW wages at Ford and GM to keep the union our of its plants in Marysville, OH.

Oh yes a common misconcetption and a completly off the wall statment.

Its not about makeing a better product, there is labor and there is managment, The unions are not trying to run the companys . Most members will tell you that.

Philsophy of the Union I once belonged to was.

It's managment job to get the work. Its out job to do it.
How it get done is up to managment to decide.

The union's job was to negotiate a fair compensation pakage for the workforce.

I dont know of any union out there that wants to take the company over.

there have been some companies that have been bought out by the unions. Some do well otheres fail. Such is buisness.

Yes banjo now tell me the base pay of the CEO's of ford gm and honda. And then tell me that 30 an hour is not reasonable.

We were taught in grade school that Henry Ford invented the assembly line and then paid his workers $5 a day, double the going rate, so Ford workers could afford to buy the product they made.

Everyone in the business told Ford he was nuts to pay so much, he was wasting his money.

Then we were taught in the next decade Walter Reuther was a saint for starting the UAW and organizing the Ford plants. Ford was evil for kicking Reuther's butt off Ford property.

Something does not jive here. Organize and strike the Company that pays it workers twice the going rate?

Ford has been very good to my family and friends.

Being a self employed businessman for the last 22 years I would take Ford's methods over Reuther's.

I believe I would call that the 'Two Wrongs Make a Right' fallacy.

no arugement there Mr ford was a good man. However what he did was take skilled craftsmen and put them to work doing very borring repititious jobs. He had to pay them double the going rate to get them to stay...YOU sir of all people should understand that.

ok i'm going to bed thanks all for the argument, and I do appoligise to Mr Hawk for calling his view ignorant that was out of line of me.

I would not work for less than $30-40 an hour, but some people I come in contact with I would never pay half that.

All the folks I know at Ford earn every penny.

What the owners, CEO's and stock holders earn is irrelevant. People get paid what their time is worth in a free market. In a Socialist or Communist society it does matter. Everyone gets the same miserable pay with little hope of moving up. But the US is as close to a free market econmoy as we will see in our lifetimes. I wish we had the true free market that Milton Friedman visualized and then everyone prosper.

If I worked at Ford and made 100 grand a year (as many of my friends do) I would not begrudge Bill Ford taking home a couple million.

From what I heard, old Henry used to make good (for him) use of the unions. If inventories got too high, he would go out to the assembly area and "offend" someone. The union would go on strike. Inventories were reduced, Ford got a tax break because of the strike and no unemployment was paid out.

As for HD, could it be that outside interests have infiltrated the union?

The parts guys and mechanics just voted out the union at work a few months ago. They are now able to get paid fairly based on experience and more importantly performance. They also have a better benefits package.

There was a time for unions. However, it was a time before labor laws as well.

I have done the union thing a couple of times (as a requirement for where I was working at the time), but for the most part I agree with this... http://www.cafepress.com/antiunions

Soren

Three things unions need to do to make a comeback.

1) Get out of politics. It's not good for unions OR politics.

2) Recognize that companies need to make money. The more the better.

3) Defend and support honest productive workers, not thieves, deadbeats and disruptive a$$holes.

Oh, make public sector unions illegal.

You won't see #3 happening any time soon, it would eliminate most of the union bosses.

Kinda off topic but, all the talk about auto workers reminded me of a book I read years ago called Rivethead ... By Ben Hamper I think... The guy worked the lines for years ...good read you wouldnt believe some of the stuff that went on

HD could out source to Mexico or China cut there labor cost by 3/4 and still charge the same amount for there bikes. Then the CEO's can make more money and brake the union. Then bring it back to USA and hire new work force for half the money no vacation,no health insurance and no pension to cut cost. This happen to me at Black&Decker Dewalt. I will not buy there stuff ever again!

Unions are completely and totally useless in the US in this day and age. Back when they first started there was a reason for them ...but not now.

Unions are BS and STRIKES are only good for bowlers. I heard part of the reason the Hardly workers are striking is cause they will also have to start contributing to their health care program with monies from their own pocket. All I can say to that is welcome to the club now quit your whining and go build those hardlies. A vested future RUB awaits your labor on HIS piece of unique Americana.

ladisy - well said ! As a business owner myself, I believe it is a responsibility to care for ones employees. This responsibility is to ensure the company is financially strong, forward thinking (looking for pot holes in the road) and thusly provide oportunity for financial growth. The problem is that, in my experience, Unions and most employees do not have an appreciation for the financial risk that business owners take in starting/running a business. If things take a turn for the worse ,financially, the employee does not recieve bonuses or raises and at worst is looking for another job while the business owner usually looses it all. The problem with most CEO's is they have no sense of ownership thusly no consequences for their actions...gee ! kind of like politicians. I think the way to help solve this problem long term is better economic education to our kids but there you again have to many administrators making money and not stepping foot in a class room...Basically, the entitlement mentality is breaking us !

Considering that my job is defending management's actions in the grievance procedure (900+ employees, two unions/two National Agreements), this has been a very interesting thread.

Having worked for the Phone company for over 20 years and lived through 4 strikes on both sides of the table I can tell you that the only ones who win in the long run are the CEO's. Most of the time the wages saved by the company pay for the concessions at the table. It can be a real shell game.