Bonneville America Forums Forums Technical Forums Performance Mods rejet advice: Specialty Spares long cannons?

OK I'm at about sea level (DC area), and just got the SS long cannons. the unifilter is coming in next week and i want to do all the mods at once. from research, it seems to me the best setup (w/o going w/ the freak) is the following, but not sure re elevation:

SS long canons
Unifilter
Drill-out-the-airbox mod
130 or 133 mains (i have both)
45 pilots

does this sound right? do i have to worry about needles and shims? I downloaded Pat's shim calculator but have no clue what to do with it (cool little app by the way, Dinq). I'm not a wrencher by any means, but i did the AI job last weekend w/o much trouble so i figure i can handle this one.

any advice much appreciated.

I have the SS long cannons, live in MD with the Uni-filter. Dale at SS sent me 132.5 mains and 45 pilots for the pipes. The jet kit is supposed to come with the pipes, at least that is what Dale's website said back in December. I didn't get jets with my pipes and after calling Dale, he sent me that set. I just checked the website and there is no mention of the supplied jet kit, but he is now offering free shipping, guess that is a decent trade off. The supplied jets work great, good throttle response with no glitches.
I'd call Bella Corse, tell him your setup and he spec the right jet kit for your altitude. He nailed it with my long off-road pipes but I bet they're close to my setup.

I just did the airbox mod on mine. I have the SS long slash w/thruxton needles & 135 mains & I'm still lean. I'm dropping in 145's tomorrow.

thanks SS - wondering if you did anything with your airbox or just left it stock?

Right now, as my sig says, I'm running SS Pipes, cut out the bottom of the airbox & removed all snorkels and a few other things, 132 mains, 45 pilots, TBS Needles, and I've drilled out ther vacuum port in the carb slides for throttle response.

I haven't checked for lean/rich yet, but it's not quite perfect. My air screws are 3.25 turns out and I'm still getting some popping on decel, and get an occasional light backfire with the popping.

At first I tried the TBS needles with 45 pilots and stock 120 mains because my new mains weren't here yet. It was strong in the low-mid but ran out of breath at the top end (as you would expect with a stock main).

Then my 132's came in and I tried the stock 42 pilots with the 132 mains. It was strong on the upper end but wasn't running well in the low-mid range.

Finally I put in the 45 pilots and now it's running strong from bottom to top, but as I mentioned I have some popping and occasional light backfiring.

I'm getting close. I think the next thing is to check my lean/rich status out and see what the deal is. I think I also need to tweak my air mixture screws a little yet.

I'll report back when I get it more dialed in, but since every bike is different, I think 132-135 mains with 45 pilots is a good starting point. Definitely do the TBS needles - they are cheap and really help out the mid range.

Pulled all the snorkels plus the Uni Filter.

Dale sent me the tuned kit: 132.5 mains 45 pilots 2 shims.

1 shim each needle & he says 3 turns on the airscrews.

Hmm, he didn't send me any shims, but I still have two per carb from the previous rejet. I'll experiment by removing one.

thanks for the input everyone. I'm going to go ahead and try the 132/45/shim combination. I have a set of TBS needles at my disposal, but figured I would try doing baby steps first before I start drilling the carbs and seeking out the "soft" springs for throttle response. I'll let y'all know how it turns out.

thanks again!

Sorry, this is long...

OK, the job is done!...(almost)

installed the pipes - no prob there except the one allen screw on the right stock pipe that had too much teflon on it - had to dremel the head off because the receptor (female part) on the pipe was spinning with the allen screw after about 1/2 way. anyway, i digress.

first, let me say: THANKS DINQ! those instructions for rejetting are great!

so I installed the following:

SS long pipes
132 mains
45 pilots (followed Dale's - from SS - advice instead of Dinq's instructions since Dale said the pilots were the most important part of the rejet job)
drilled paper air filter and airbox (2 X 1" holes - broke my hole saw on the last hole so I couldn't do 3) - waiting on Uni Filter
removed snorkel (couldn't find the two that are supposedly in the holes toward the carbs??)

i've been riding, tweaking, riding, tweaking, etc. gradually went from 3.0 to 4.0 turns on the mixture screws and the decel popping (and throttle-on lag) seemed to get better as it got closer to 4. then, to confirm my thoughts, I turned them back to 2.5, and got what seemed to be more popping on decel, and more lag when throttling-on (my test for that was 5th gear @ 50 MPH - 4 turns seemed to be best setting). I have them out to 4.25 now but haven't tested that setting.

there's still a fair amount of popping during decel. I just don't know how many turns I have left - pretty soon those mixture screws are going to be full-open.

anyone got advice to get rid of decel popping and get better throttle-on response? I figure i've got three options:

1. replace 45's w/ stock pilots
2. replace stock needles w/ TBS (maybe also shims? i don't know much about what i'm talking about here obviously)
3. completely drill out filter and airbox instead of just 2 measley 1" holes - i.e. more air

any suggestions much appreciated. the new mufflers sound great (if a little loud) and I could actually live with the way it's running now, but I want to get it as good as it can get of course!

thanks for all of y'alls help so far. I'm going to have to contribute to the future fund now since i've guilted myself into it. haha.

I had my air/fuel screws set at 3.5 turns out which eliminated the popping. The only difference in out setups is I did not drill any airbox holes. My plugs looked like it was running a little on the rich side, so on the advice of a Yamaha mechanic (daughters boyfriend), I moved them in to 3.25 turns out. That gives me a little popping on decel. I currently have two shims, will pull one (leaving one). I had two shims with the jets on my old, Triumph long-offroads and just left them in place.

I don't believe I've heard of anyones setup requiring more than 4 turns out on the air/fuel screws. I'd recommend you wait and see how others respond before making any other changes.

My bike is FINALLY dialed in. It rides like a champ, and our setups are nearly identical. Here is what I would recommend...

You could try a smaller pilot, but I bet you get what I did - major lag in the low to mid range.

I would get a TBS needle, and finish off the air box. Read my air box post that I posted last night - it has some pictures as well. If you can let in some more air, you will lean it out a little. I would also HIGHLY recommend getting TBS needles. They are inexpensive, take only a few minutes to swap in, and make a big difference in the mid range.

I am running 132/45's as well, so you should be very close to what's going to work. Also, you may want to consider drilling out the hole in your slide for throttle response... if you have the guts.

I am 3.5 turns out, and I get a very minor amount of popping on decel. I may try to dial it out, but it's so much better than before I'll probably live with it.

The slide drilling and airbox info is also on my site (the link in my signature).

Hi Joe, JR, Ken, Dan and Al,
I appreciate all your answers here (and some questions). I am around 600 feet above sea level, so I might as well be on the coast. I was Looking at Dan's mods yesterday morning. I have been getting a little popping on decel and wanted to check my mix screws. While idling, I started to turn my screws in and noticed my carbs taking turns squishing against the rubber manifold adapters. Like they were dancing to the beat of the exhaust. I asked myself why? There must be a lot of vacuum and resistance to cause this. I decided to go ahead and yank my inner snorkels and used a 1.5" hole saw to punch the bottom of my UNI, then used that as a guide to drill a matching hole in the airbox bucket - got my shop vac and cleaned the area well. Fired it up, took it of the jack and after it warmed up, I tried it out. The carbs lay almost still now in their little rubber cradles, and the bike runs like a scalded dog. Smooth as silk and slicker than snot on a gold tooth! Smooth power band and the exhaust note is much deeper and smoother. The roar of the intake is only slightly louder but it is nice and deep too.
My bride said, "Honey, that's enough, it's starting to sound like your old Superglide." (The HD was an '87, so it wasn't that old.)
Thanks again for mellowing me out. My Grin-O-Meter was pegged out all afternoon!
Ride Safe,
Dennis

I've resisted the urge to drill my airbox, maybe I'll have to give it a try! I was running a little rich at 3.5 turns out with my 132/45 jet setup so backed it down to 3.25 turns. Now I'm getting a little decel popping. I need to remove one of the two shims currently installed and probably get the TSB needles as well.

Glad to hear it worked out for you Dennis!

After I cut the hole in the bottom, I couldn't believe how much of a difference it made. I noticed the same thing regarding the carbs looking like they were "huffing" for air before the mod, and now it runs much smoother after.

It also made a slight difference when I took out the "wall" that the inner snorkels mount too, but not like when you cut the bottom out. What I did notice is that my bike runs better now. It was still running a little on the rich side and was popping on decel - with an occasional *light* backfire. The backfiring went away completely once the wall was removed and the air mixture opened up to 3.5 from 3.25 turns. It just needed a little more air.

Al, GO FOR IT! The TBS needles are cheap, and make a nice difference in the mid range. The airbox mod is *free*. How often to you get to mod your bike to get extra HP for free?

What are the TBS needle application numbers? Ma's owes me a seat bracket that wasn't included in my shippment last week, I'll have them stick a set with the bracket.

Hi Al,
The TBS needles part number is: T1241024 (order two). What I did with my airbox seems to be OK. I drilled a 1.5" hole in filter bottom and airbox, so if I didn't like it, I could patch it up easier. Worked great.
Ride Safe,
Dennis

Dennis - if you decide you like it, I'd open the bottom the rest of the way up to the full size of the bottom of the filter. It would give you about 2.5x as much airflow through the bottom.

I'll order a pair, thanks!

Dennis:
How much do those needles run?

I think I paid more than anybody else I've heard of, and they ran me $15 each.

OK - still getting decel popping. everything else is OK, i.e. throttle response, midrange, etc.

can someone review the following article to tell me if the second paragraph in the last section labeled "LOW SPEED (PILOT) JET" makes sense? I'm at 45 pilots and continue to get decel popping - wondering if I should move up to 48's but not really excited about pulling the carbs again if I don't have to.

Carb rejetting explained (pretty well, i might add!)

thanks a bunch!

Toofless, how many turns out are you on the Idle Screw. What he is saying is that if you can't eliminate the popping by turning the screw out 4 turns (or less), then going up a size on the Pilot Jet is probably needed. hope that helps...

I'd try the TBS needles at this point. They really help out the mid range. Although, technically, I don't think they affect idle, which is where your decel popping is coming from. It just seems that a 48 pilot would be big.

Also, you can change your jets without pulling the carbs if you have in brent's hex screw kit for your carb. I can rejet in under 30 minutes easy.

How bad is the popping? Download the Specialty Spares video on my site (link in my sig) and pay attention the the first stop I come to. There is popping as I slow down. Mine doesn't pop nearly that bad anymore. Is yours popping more less than my vid?

yeah, i've tried everything from 2.5 to 4.0 turns with no success. I also tried covering the holes in the airbox, but got the same results, except then i also had a serious lag in the bottom end of the throttle. i think it just plain needs more fuel in the bottom end. I checked with Dale (Spec. Spares) and he confirms that if I've already removed the AI (which I have), that it's probably the pilot that's too small. he's sending me some 48's.

in the meanwhile, i plan to install the TBS needles i picked up yesterday, but doubt that will help much in the low end.

thanks everyone!

p.s. does anyone know if the pilots i can pick up at any HD shop will fit? they use basically the same CVK carb, right? it's gonna take at least a week to get them from Dale.

and, yeah, i have those allen screws for the carbs, but forgot to put them in when i did the job last time! ******...

Quote:

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p.s. does anyone know if the pilots i can pick up at any HD shop will fit?

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Yes, they'll fit. I've bought mine from a Hardly shop.

Toof,
You will always have some popping, if you're trying to eliminate all of it, you probably never will be able to.
Even with stock setups you get it, but it's so muffled by the pipes you can't hear it.
If it's a lot of popping and loud, you have an air leak somewhere, look there and stop dicking with the carbs.
Check vacuum caps (they get minute cracks on the tops, check with a flashlight and a magnifying glass if need be), the little hose that goes from one carb to the other, the rubber boots on the manifolds, be sure they are tight, check that your crossover and pipes are snugged down, the headers get loose and will cause popping, tighten everything down, check again.
If you are running the 45 pilots there should be virtually no popping being caused by the carb adjustments.
It's probably something else if you have eliminated everything else.
Maybe so, maybe not, just check for them leaks.

thanks Pat,

I'll check all that stuff - never even thought to re-check what i screwed with!