Bonneville America Forums Forums Off Topic Discussion Forums Lounge Figuring out 'Triumph Think'

The recent threads on the rumored 1500cc cruiser got me wondering about Triumph's marketing strategy. We (the members of ba.com) live and breath Americas and Speedmasters, and we think Triumph should pump gobs of money into upgrades for those models. But how does Triumph think?

If a line of bikes is selling well, should they let that line ride and put money into other models? How much money should they invest into drawing younger riders? Will they eventually phase out the models favored by the older riders? I wouldn't have thought there would be a big market for adventure touring bikes, but with the remake of the Tiger, Triumph is placing a big bet on that market. They dropped the Trophy just when sport touring was starting to take off. Did they mis-read that market?

The last Torque had some marketing stats on the different models, so I skimmed through and made a quick list. Of course, this is propaganda from their marketing people, but it gives some hints about how Triumph views it's different lines. It's what Triumph wants us to know.

[Note: I used CODE so the tabs would line up]
Code:

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Speed Triple		Best Selling Triumph, 20% of global sales in 2006, 42% of sales in Italy
Sprint ST		Best selling Triumph in UK in 2006
Daytona 675		Youngest owner profile
Bonneville family	1/4 of Triumph's sales in US
Rocket III		Out sells Daytona 675 4:1 in Japan; Joint top seller in Canada
Scrambler		No sales data given (maybe I just didn't see it)
Thruxton		No sales data given (ditto)
America			Together with Speedmaster, accounts for 10% of Triumph's worldwide sales (5% each?)
Speedmaster		Best selling Triumph in Sweden
Tiger			Claimed to be one of Triumph's most popular bikes (whatever that means)

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So, what assumptions can be made?

Speed Triple is Triumph's bread and butter
TBA/SM is solid but not huge market for Triumph
New, young buyers like glitzy sport bikes aka Daytona 675. What will they buy when they grow up?
RIII can compete in Japan easier than the sports bikes. Japan Inc. monopolizes it's own sportbike market
Will the retro models like Thruxton and Scrambler be worth continuing? How long will the retro fad last?

Triumph is taking advantage of niches and marketing holes in the motorcycle market. A 1500cc cruiser would compete directly with a bunch of bikes already out there, including Harley. It's a niche already filled. Would Triumph be taking a gamble with that model? Is that why it has taken so long to show up?

I figure this should stir up some debate.
Any comments here?

Cody,

Just a snap observation, since I'm at work (ya, like I'm the first one!) to log in.

But the way they mix and match numbers/percentages against a model lineup it doesn't tell me much. Not that they were asking for corporate direction in the first place. Just keep it solvent kids!!

It is nice to see Piper, Stewe and the rest of those ne-er-do-wells influence the Swedish cruiser numbers in a positive light however.

JH

By golly you might be right.

Do you have a link to number of each model sold worldwide?

Interesting theory John. Hearing from a number of sources that Triumph wishes to remain a "niche player" and not challenge the larger manufacturers, at least for the foreseeable future, you may be right.

When Triumph introduced their 4 cylinder 600 sport bike a few years ago, they went directly up against Japan Inc. with a product that was at once both too similar and a half step behind the best of that class, and it turned out to be somewhat of a misstep for them with sales that did not live up to Triumph's expectations.

But, I don't know if your theory that a 1500cc "would complete directly with a bunch of bikes already out there, including Harley", as I hope that any new larger displacement cruiser that Mr.Bloor's Boys would offer, would be a vertical-twin, not a V-Twin, and preferably air/oiled cooled, just as our TBAs and Speedies are.

And, seeing as how the engine design of any motorcycle basically defines it's "character" and "heritage", I would say that this particular "niche" hasn't been filled, as of yet anyway.

Cheers,
Dwight

I'd have to agree with Dwight's assessment... a parallel twin 1500cc cruiser wouldn't be competing with an existing market to any larger degree than a parallel twin 800cc is competing with the likes of the honda shadow, suzuki boulevard c50, kawasaki vulcan 800 etc. If the America/Speedmaster can generate 10% of Triumph's sales against these bikes, I see no reason a mid-range cruiser can't perform similar tricks.

I was talking to a Triumph rep at my dealers open house about a year ago. He said something that kinda hit home about the America and Speedmaster. He said that Triumph sells all the Americas and Speedmasters they make every year. Well this could be taken several ways. Yes they sell them all because their dealers are probably forced to take an allotment or they're just so popular that the dealers order enough so Triumph doesn't have to worry about over production. If Triumph is happy with the sales of the America and Speedmaster why would they change the line. If they don't have production schedule to increase the numbers the sales can't increase. If they can only build a set quantity then sales will never increase. Here is the kicker, if they don't have the production capacity how can they add another cruiser to the line up without cutting into another production line or cutting back on the America and Speedmaster. Lets face it, they have limited resources and they try to maximize what they have. Somehow they'll "Rob Peter to pay Paul".

This has been very interesting to me and all of you have good points. I have been hoping for a new cruiser that would have a larger more efficient motor. I beleive fuel consumption in the future will be a very big issue. With the demand for oil increasing a great amount each year, we could be seeing some rough times in the future. I have a compact car that gets about 30 mpg highway. It weighs in at about 3,000 lbs. My Speedy gets about 46 mpg and weighs in at 500 lbs. The mpg to weight ratio is really not that good for the bike. If they can get a retro style looking motor to do the job, fine, but I think they will have to come up with something else.

Dave

Dave,
I understand that fuel economy is important to you but Triumph probably doesn't give a Rat's A** about fuel economy. You never see any bike manufacturer run a marketing campaign around fuel economy. It's just not an exciting topic for potential buyers. Its' just assumed that bikes get good milage. Motorcycle companies run marketing campaigns based on things like life style or the freedom.

Actually Ron you do see manufacturers advertising for MPG but its on scooters and little things that are barely motorcycles(Rebels,GZ 250s etc).
I agree with the Triumph sell every America and Speedy they make, so where is the market pressure to make another? Would we all run down and trade our bikes? Creating a surplus of used BAs and Speedy which would hurt the sales of new ones. Not to mention retooling a production line for new cases,frames etc.

According to the latest 'Cruiser' mag, the cruiser model is by far the best selling bike on the market. Liars figure and figures lie-so if HD has such a huge market share, does that skew that whole statement? IN other words, if you take HD out of sales world wide, what are the best selling bikes?

Then again, I don't think I really care. I love my America. It would be nice if Triumph made a larger cruiser but I really beleive the cruiser market will continue to dominate especially in the US as the ridership ages. I weigh 170 and the 6o HP and 500 pounds of the America are right for me. Bigger guys are going to want bigger bikes. A big cruiser would be a good seller-if priced right with the right features.

I only weigh 160+ but I ride 2-up a lot. I love my America, but I still would be very interested in a larger cruiser. My main concern would be that it still have a classic Triumph look. The Rocket is a great bike, but it isn't the style bike or look that I want.

it would be nice if a larger one came out, but i love my bike and it would be much cheaper to improve the little things (breaks, power, tourque, belt ) then to buy a new bike

Frank

As a first time cruiser (well almost) owner I can say that the size was one of the attractions for me, as well as a friend that owns a BA. As a younger rider I was a sport rider. For me it was about the comfort of a cruiser but without the weight and lethargy associated with the growing trend of oversized cruisers. Maybe another niche market but someone asked what all the young sport riders will ride when they get older. It is very difficult to go from a super nimble sport to a big heavy cruiser. The BA/SM makes a nice transition.

I keep telling myself I like the new Tiger, and would not mind having a Tiger of the more recent generation, either. They sound like great bikes for long distance travel, regardless of whether or not one might hit an occassional gravel road. But I know I could make the same trip on my SM, as many here have already proven.

I keep telling myself I like the new Sprint ST, with the more upright ergos, and now comes with the improved hard bags, standard. But I can't see myself pulling it out of the garage every day to ride it to work. Could, but would prefer to do that on the SM.

I keep telling myself I like the Rocket III (Classic?), but again - no fairing - just a "bigger" SM? and the fuel economy? And would I want to pull it out of the garage every morning to ride it to work?

I keep telling myself I want another Triumph in my garage, but I can't justify why, or which one.

I don't know what else I could add to this, so, "NEED I SAY MORE?"

Drove a 102 CID Yamaha a week or so ago. Wow! Serious Bike Anyhow, the big guys have the big bikes pretty wrapped up.

Triumph needs to stay in the nitche. They would do well to make a bigger Speedy/America type but would prolly be getting their customers from themselves. I am telling ya, IMHO the 10% would be 25% if they lost that dang chain for America and Speedy.

Shaft drive?

Why not? The Rocket III has it. Anybody heard any negatives about Triumph's shaft drive? Chassis jacking? (Is that what they call it?)

BMW seems to have it all figured out. Honda just went to shaft drive on their 750s recently, so the "smaller" (big?) bikes are starting to see some shaft drives.

Belt drive?

That works too! Bring it on! I bet it comes with the fuel injection. One way or the other, the chain will go.

One thing to think about Simmer, ok, so your car weighs 30 mpg and weighs in at 3000 lbs. Your america/speedie gets 46 mpg and weighs 500 lbs. One has to remember that its not just the weight of the vehicle that decides on the fuel mileage. Lets say we make apples compare to apples instead of apples compared to oranges. So you have a 3000 lb car, with maybe 150 horsepower ( maybe even 200 at the high end ) . Then if you turned your bike into a 3000 lb car, to match the power to weight ratio it has now it would have to have 366 horsepower. Now try and get the 366 hp car to match the 150 to 200 hp car. All I can say is good luck probably aint gonna happen.