Bonneville America Forums Forums Technical Forums General Tech Bike Won't turn over

With the ignition on, I don't get any response when I hit the starter button; I put the battery on trickle charge, and just now hooked up a multi-meter to the posts and read over 12V, I've replaced the 15A and 30A fuses that protect the ignition and starter circuits, and I've cleaned up and reseated the spade connectors on the starter solenoid, and I still don't get squat. The idiot lights and headlamp come on just fine, but when I hit the starter, I don't get a click, hum, nothing. Is there any easy way to test the starter solenoid? Is there something else I can troubleshoot?

Thanks.

will the bike run if you push start it? also may be worth checking for corrosion in the switch itself. not sure if it is like a car but you may be able to jump the soleniod with a screwdriver. not positive tho


Frank

Frank

Have you checked that the kill switch is in the on position?

I'm going to try jumpering across the solenoid with the screwdriver, that was suggested to me on the rat.net. Yes, the kill switch was in the right position, I tried cycling the kill switch, and the side-stand, and engaging the clutch; nothing. Thanks for the inputs.

Pull all your fuses, clean and replace using a little dielectric on each one. Then check the back of the fuse block for corrosion too. Sometimes one of the big main fuses will push the spade back just far enough it loses a little contact and results in not being able to jolt the starter solenoid.
Definetly an electrical issue...keep ta it, you'll finger it out.
Oh, and yes, you can just short across the starter solenoid to spin it over - be sure the key is on too.

Also, triple check that side stand switch - you rae describing exactly what it will do if opened. You can short the contacts to test it (check wiing diagram to be sure - maybe it was open the connection??)

Well I jumpered across the starter solenoid posts, and it cranks over, so I'm going to start looking investigating the alarm control, kill switch and starter button. I'll also double-check the back of the fuse panel.

On a side note, found the stock accessory plug (purple wire and black wire) is that good for anything useful?

That's for the little accessory plug, the "BMW" connector. You can plug most anythign you can imagine into it. I have one, but have never used it.

It's fused for 10 amps and on all the time. Just a little more info....

Sweet! I never have actually looked at the wiring diagrams in the Service manual until last night; when I found it last night, I figured that it did have a fuse to protect the circuit, but I've never used the thing, and only identified it about an hour ago.

There are several "safety" switches involved in the starter circuit. You have to have the transmission in neutral or the sidestand up and the clutch lever pulled in. These switch combinations go through a diode pack to enable the starter relay under the tank. This relay sends switches on the solenoid switch behind the right side cover if one of the above conditions are met, the run/stop switch is on, the ignition is on, and the starter button is pushed. There are also 2 or 3 fuses involved.

Ok, that makes sense with the darn main circuit diagram in the service manual; I just couldn't find the starter relay, is that the como se llama mounted directly in front of the turn signal flasher (right in front of my face)?? All the fuses check out, I jumpered across the solenoid posts with a screwdriver, and even with the key off, the starter cranks. The B spade connections on either side of the solenoid don't have any juice, key on or off. The alarm connector receives (or sends) a signal from a B spade connector on the starter side of the solenoid, the alarm connector, at a glance, seems to be functioning normally, it has a blank plug cover with 4 wire ports jumpered to each other. When the key is on and the plug cover is on, the idiot lights and headlight are on, when I pull the cover, everything shuts off, so I assume it's doing what it's supposed to do. The kill switch (in the off position) and starter button both indicate battery-equivalent voltage when measured with a multi-meter. There's also some kind of inline device that ties in with the B spade connection on the battery side of the solenoid, this inline device leads back to the negative terminal on the battery.

Thanks for your input

Ok, based on several good suggestions, both here, and on the rat.net, here's what I've done and found out:

I pulled the alarm connector plug on the alarm connector, and measured across the #3 and #5 prongs, and measured 0 resistance. Then I tried to measure voltage across the alarm connector itself (cover plug removed) and didn't get any voltage with the key on, and the starter button pushed. I measured resistance across the starter button, and got infinite resistance, whether or not the button was depressed. When my room-mate comes home, I'll ask him to help me verify that.

I ran a jumper wire from the positive terminal of the battery and connected to the B (spade) connection that wasn't grounded, and the engine cranked over, even with the key turned off. I'm guessing that means the solenoid is good??

I positively identified the starter relay (staring right at me), and with the key turned on, measured battery-equivalent voltage across 4 of the 5 connections (on the harness side of the connection, relay removed), the one exception being the black/pink wire. I measured across the relay male connections and got infinite resistance across all but two of the connections, the blue and blue/yellow ports, which is the way it should be, according to the main circuit diagram. I'm guessing that the relay is good???

So right now, looks like the starter, starter solenoid, and battery are fine, along with the starter relay and alarm connector. Does that sound right?

Thanks again for all of the support!

Rather than re-read all of this I will ask, have you definitively eliminated the sidestand switch?

Once I figure out what continuity is, I'll test it. To date, all I've done, is kerosene-clean the plunger, and then spray some pb blaster, and exercise it a bit. I have tried starting with it down and then down. What little electrical experience I had or have is from about 10 years ago.

I'm not sure, but off the top of my head, it seems like the
starter button is bad, not making contact. Or a wiring prob?
I think it was Gina that had probs with the alarm?

Just trying to throw out ideas,
Uncle Charlie

I was think'n that the alarm had some sort of ignition
disabling feature that may have malfunctioned????

It does have an immobiliser thingy in it. My probs were because then they put a non-Triumph alarm on to start with, it caused the brain to do silly things... I blame static. They cut into the wiring... They changed it all, the brain, the coils, the plug leads etc, and put a 'proper' alarm on. I had no problems after that.

Well I just disconnected the sidestand switch from the wiring harness, and jumpered across the connections, still no joy on starting! If it was either the relay, solenoid, alarm connector plug, or sidestand, it would have been a simple plug and play repair, the starter button or kill switch won't be quite so simple. DANGITTT!!

Keep the suggestions coming though, I do appreciate them..

Below is the start & charge circuits as ripped directly from the Triumph workshop manual. We know that the starter motor's working and the solenoid's not clicking. So following the circuit diagram we can work backwards to find the fault.

Firstly there are four fuses to check, numbers 11 (30A), 2 (30A), 5 (15A), and 9 (15A). Don't rely on visual inspection, test them with a resistance meter.

Check that all electrical connections (including the battery terminals) are tight and are not corroded, dirty, or wet.

Measuring voltage at the solenoid you should find 12V on the large gauge brown wire and 0V on the Black & White one. With the ignition on, gearbox in neutral, you should find 0 volts at solenoid terminal 1 (black wire) and this should change to 12V when you press the start button. If so the solenoid's at fault. If not...

Test alarm connection 3 with the start button and ignition on. You should find 12V there. If not...

Remove the starter relay. Test between pins 6 & 4, you should find 0 resistance. Using an ohmmeter (multimeter set to resistance) test between ping 1 & 8 and you should find and open circuit (infinite resistance). Get a 12V battery (car battery will work fine if you don't want to pull the bike's battery). Connect the relay's pin 4 to the negative terminal and pin 6 to the positive. You should hear the relay click. Measure resistance between pins 1 and 8. If you don't find 0 resistance the relay's not working.

Check voltage on either side of the start button & kill switch...

Check voltage at ignition switch. You should find 12V at pins 4 & 5 when off, and at all four pins when on.

Finally, to test resistance on the diode pack you should measure 0 resistance from pin 2 to pin 1 and pin 2 to pin 3, and if you reverse the connections you should measure an open circuit (infinite resistance) from pin 3 to pin 2 and pin 1 to pin 2. If any of these aren't true replace the diode pack. Test resistance between each of the switches and earth individually.

That's the entire circuit. If it's not any of those things your machine is possessed by an evil spirit and you need a priest. Good luck.

You said:I measured resistance across the starter button, and got infinite resistance, whether or not the button was depressed. That is the problem!!!!! Short across the start buttom and away you can go.

Talcecom's right. You should have a short circuit (0 resistance) across the start button when you press it.

By the way, welcome to the board Talcecom.

thanks for the all the help, it appears (no surprise now) that the starter button is a little dodgy. This morning before work, I took an emory board outside to clean up the solder posts on the back of the starter button, to make sure the multi-meter leads would have good connection, and the thing started to work, with and without a screwdriver jumper. There's a guy on the rat.net that's parting out an America, so I'll see if I can grab the whole switch assembly from him. Thanks again for all the help and support guys!

Outstanding catch Robert!


Welcome aboard!!

Not to toot my own horn, but I posted this yesterday:

Quote:

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I'm not sure, but off the top of my head, it seems like the
starter button is bad, not making contact.

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Glad you got it sorted out!

This site is priceless for info,
Uncle Charlie

Matt, thanks again for the help, and posting the diagrams. Your point is well taken, I had started down the used switchgear route simply because looking at the microfiche exploded diagrams on bikebandit didn't indicate to me that the darn thing is sold separately, either from the wiring harness, or the the switchgear panel. It definitely wouldn't hurt to at least call the dealership and verify, before plunking down my money for the used.

UncleCharlie, I've never had any probs giving credit where credit was due, it sure as nuts wasn't my idea to test resistance across the stupid button.

I'll have the bike back together here shortly, including the wiring for the aerostich grip warm wraps that came in yesterday.